Re: [AFMUG] fiber cost per home directional and pole attach

[Keefe John]

I've seen $3500 - $6500 per home passed, depending on what you are doing.

Keefe

On March 6, 2018 12:44:43 AM CST, TJ Trout  wrote:
>I'm looking at venturing into fiber, I've done enough research and
>bugged
>most of you on the list that I think I have enough knowledge to get
>going
>(and be dangerous).
>
>I'm looking at two options for our area,
>
>1. Service newer subdivisions of houses that are currently served by
>cable
>and dsl with speeds up to 1G in certain areas, average is about 50mbps,
>this would be an all directional drill job underground.
>
>What is a good cost per ft, or cost per house passed for drilling,
>conduit
>and fiber?
>
>2. Service the older side of town that has mostly overhead utilities by
>signing an attachment agreement with the local power company, much
>lower
>deployment cost and generally a more 'under served' area but also a
>lower
>income area, using almost 100% pole attachments.
>
>What is a good cost per ft or house passed (these are all small
>1000-2000ft2 homes with small parcels) for cable, and pole attachment
>fee's, lashing, etc?
>
>I'm looking at PON but may go AE depending on some factors
>
>Anyone bored enough to throw some advice my way?
>
>Thank you!
>
>TJ Trout

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [AFMUG] fiber cost per home directional and pole attach

[Clint Wiley]

I don’t have much experience with directional drilling yet, but I can talk 
about my aerial experience. We currently construct GPON aerial fiber builds in 
some neighborhoods that sound similar to the one you describe. There are 
several important factors that will impact your build cost with the most 
volatile one being make ready. I’m getting better at predicting where make 
ready costs will make a build more expensive so I can better determine 
feasibility. In our area, I have three vendors to deal with; the power utility, 
the incumbent phone company and the cable provider. We have two pole owners and 
their poles sometimes are randomly mixed together. The power utility and phone 
company own those poles. We have to prepare engineering drawings with our 
applications for the pole attachments. Each of these applications is limited to 
99 poles because that’s the limit set by the ILEC. The engineering drawings run 
me a little over 1K per app from a regional engineering firm. They map the 
poles, take stick measurements, and prepare the apps. The ILEC charges us $5400 
per app as an application fee. The power company doesn’t charge anything, but 
their renal fees are four times higher. Make ready varies in cost. To make room 
on the poles, the pole owners will relocate lines and lights and anything else 
at a per hour cost. We’ve paid to replace a couple of poles and that gets 
expensive. I redesigned a run to avoid having to replace a single pole and in 
the future I may go underground to avoid bad poles. One benefit of make ready 
is that our power company takes that opportunity to cut back all trees along 
those routes. It makes our construction easier/faster and, at least for a few 
years, reduces the chance that branches will be falling across our lines. 

The other construction cost factor will revolve around how you design and 
deploy your network. Several other small fiber builders I know will deploy 
preterminated optitap cases instead of fusion splicing each drop. When you do 
that, all possible drops from that case are spliced during installation and 
that will up your initial construction costs. I opted to splice in each drop at 
the time of installation, which reduced the number of splices done during 
network construction. It takes us 2 -3 hours per install because we have to 
splice at the case and again at the home, but that cost is an ongoing one that 
I didn’t have to pay upfront. If we’d gone with an optitap system I think our 
installs would take half the time. We really save where we’ve deployed drop 
cases and they are underutilized. We can deploy a network designed for 80% take 
and not bear a significantly greater cost than designing for 40% take rates. 
But, we’re “constructing” part of our network each day (and that’s important 
for depreciation too). 

With our design and the uneven cost of make ready, we build at roughly $9/ft. 
That number also includes some design consultant costs. We use a couple of 
subcontractors for network construction and we do the installations ourselves. 
We’ve found the best subcontractors are motivated when paid by the foot for 
messenger cable and lashing installation and by the splice and per case 
install. As a side note, I’ve found that “lower income” residents statistically 
are more likely to buy our higher end (full gigabit) packages. YMMV. 

Thanks,
_
Clint Wiley
Hagerstown Fiber Internet

> On Mar 6, 2018, at 1:44 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:
> 
> I'm looking at venturing into fiber, I've done enough research and bugged 
> most of you on the list that I think I have enough knowledge to get going 
> (and be dangerous).
> 
> I'm looking at two options for our area,
> 
> 1. Service newer subdivisions of houses that are currently served by cable 
> and dsl with speeds up to 1G in certain areas, average is about 50mbps, this 
> would be an all directional drill job underground. 
> 
> What is a good cost per ft, or cost per house passed for drilling, conduit 
> and fiber?
> 
> 2. Service the older side of town that has mostly overhead utilities by 
> signing an attachment agreement with the local power company, much lower 
> deployment cost and generally a more 'under served' area but also a lower 
> income area, using almost 100% pole attachments.
> 
> What is a good cost per ft or house passed (these are all small 1000-2000ft2 
> homes with small parcels) for cable, and pole attachment fee's, lashing, etc?
> 
> I'm looking at PON but may go AE depending on some factors
> 
> Anyone bored enough to throw some advice my way?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> TJ Trout

Re: [AFMUG] fiber cost per home directional and pole attach

[Jason McKemie]

There are a lot of factors that go into both the aerial and underground
costs. Entirely depends on the terrain, density of housing, city vs
country, pole make ready work, etc etc.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018, TJ Trout  wrote:

> I'm looking at venturing into fiber, I've done enough research and bugged
> most of you on the list that I think I have enough knowledge to get going
> (and be dangerous).
>
> I'm looking at two options for our area,
>
> 1. Service newer subdivisions of houses that are currently served by cable
> and dsl with speeds up to 1G in certain areas, average is about 50mbps,
> this would be an all directional drill job underground.
>
> What is a good cost per ft, or cost per house passed for drilling, conduit
> and fiber?
>
> 2. Service the older side of town that has mostly overhead utilities by
> signing an attachment agreement with the local power company, much lower
> deployment cost and generally a more 'under served' area but also a lower
> income area, using almost 100% pole attachments.
>
> What is a good cost per ft or house passed (these are all small
> 1000-2000ft2 homes with small parcels) for cable, and pole attachment
> fee's, lashing, etc?
>
> I'm looking at PON but may go AE depending on some factors
>
> Anyone bored enough to throw some advice my way?
>
> Thank you!
>
> TJ Trout
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Jaime Solorza]

Bubbaproof ducting
...new product line.. I will take 2% of sales at cost... Contract on its
way.

On Nov 17, 2016 12:34 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> In that case, duct minimized the damage and makes repair much quicker and
> cheaper.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2016 12:32 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
>
> We have Bubbas... They cut fiber with tractor Happened several times
> to TWC and Espire in two years
>
> On Nov 17, 2016 12:29 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't think I have gophers either.
>> Woodchucks, rats, field mice, rabbits, voles, moles...burrowing rodents
>> come in many flavors.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 11/17/2016 1:19:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>>
>>
>> If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the
>> cost.
>>
>> We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in
>> rural areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of road
>> with only a few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about $1000 of
>> cable. A mile of innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a big product
>> to plow if you're plowing, or has to be drilled in (more expensive).
>>
>> In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we
>> have to drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but it
>> adds a lot of cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 houses
>> per mile. Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it!
>>
>> Chris Fabien
>> LakeNet LLC
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with
>>> duct.
>>> Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime
>>> you want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
>>> Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>>>
>>> Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage
>>> is much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost
>>> over time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new
>>> handholes for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair
>>> usually involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and
>>> splicing in a new section of cable which will require double the number of
>>> splices and splice cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in
>>> cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction
>>>> both before and after.
>>>>
>>>> Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning,
>>>> permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map,
>>>> because it depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.
>>>>
>>>> Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you
>>>> finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates,
>>>> repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to
>>>> budget for OPEX.
>>>>
>>>> Jared
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
>>>> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
>>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>>>> >
>>>> > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural
>>>> direct plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is
>>>> about as low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban,
>>>> rail crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>>>> >
>>>> > Mark
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost
>>>> for backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Chuck McCown]

In that case, duct minimized the damage and makes repair much quicker and 
cheaper.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 12:32 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

We have Bubbas... They cut fiber with tractor Happened several times to TWC 
and Espire in two years


On Nov 17, 2016 12:29 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I don't think I have gophers either.
  Woodchucks, rats, field mice, rabbits, voles, moles...burrowing rodents come 
in many flavors.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 11/17/2016 1:19:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the cost. 
 

We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in 
rural areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of road with 
only a few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about $1000 of cable. A mile 
of innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a big product to plow if you're 
plowing, or has to be drilled in (more expensive). 

In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we have 
to drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but it adds a lot 
of cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 houses per mile. Just 
my opinion, worth what you paid for it!

Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC


On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct. 
 
  Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you 
want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
  Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.  

  From: Mark Radabaugh 
  Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
      To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

  Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is 
much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost over 
time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new handholes 
for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair usually 
involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and splicing in a 
new section of cable which will require double the number of splices and splice 
cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.

  Mark

On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in 
cities close to standard numbers of road crossings. 



On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:

  Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to 
construction both before and after.

  Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning, 
permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map, because it 
depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.

  Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after 
you finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates, 
repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to 
budget for OPEX.

  Jared


  > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
  > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
  >

  > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural 
direct plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about 
as low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail 
crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
  >
  > Mark
  >
  >
  > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > >
  > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost 
for backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Jaime Solorza]

We have Bubbas... They cut fiber with tractor Happened several times to
TWC and Espire in two years

On Nov 17, 2016 12:29 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't think I have gophers either.
> Woodchucks, rats, field mice, rabbits, voles, moles...burrowing rodents
> come in many flavors.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 11/17/2016 1:19:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
>
> If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the
> cost.
>
> We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in
> rural areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of road
> with only a few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about $1000 of
> cable. A mile of innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a big product
> to plow if you're plowing, or has to be drilled in (more expensive).
>
> In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we
> have to drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but it
> adds a lot of cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 houses
> per mile. Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it!
>
> Chris Fabien
> LakeNet LLC
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with
>> duct.
>> Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you
>> want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
>> Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.
>>
>> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>>
>> Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is
>> much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost
>> over time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new
>> handholes for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair
>> usually involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and
>> splicing in a new section of cable which will require double the number of
>> splices and splice cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in
>> cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction
>>> both before and after.
>>>
>>> Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning,
>>> permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map,
>>> because it depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.
>>>
>>> Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you
>>> finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates,
>>> repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to
>>> budget for OPEX.
>>>
>>> Jared
>>>
>>>
>>> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
>>> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
>>> > To: af@afmug.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>>> >
>>> > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct
>>> plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as
>>> low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail
>>> crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>>> >
>>> > Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for
>>> backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Chuck McCown]

Underground critters love the taste of cable.  Duct makes the geometry such 
that they cannot take a bite.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 12:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

I don't think I have gophers either.
Woodchucks, rats, field mice, rabbits, voles, moles...burrowing rodents come in 
many flavors.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/17/2016 1:19:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

  If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the cost.  

  We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in rural 
areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of road with only a 
few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about $1000 of cable. A mile of 
innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a big product to plow if you're 
plowing, or has to be drilled in (more expensive). 

  In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we have 
to drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but it adds a lot 
of cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 houses per mile. Just 
my opinion, worth what you paid for it!

  Chris Fabien
  LakeNet LLC


  On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct.  
Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you 
want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is 
much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost over 
time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new handholes 
for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair usually 
involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and splicing in a 
new section of cable which will require double the number of splices and splice 
cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.

Mark

  On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

  All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in 
cities close to standard numbers of road crossings. 



  On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:

Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction 
both before and after.

Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning, 
permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map, because it 
depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.

Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you 
finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates, 
repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to 
budget for OPEX.

Jared


> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
    > To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>

> All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural 
direct plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about 
as low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail 
crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost 
for backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Adam Moffett]

I don't think I have gophers either.
Woodchucks, rats, field mice, rabbits, voles, moles...burrowing rodents 
come in many flavors.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 11/17/2016 1:19:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the 
cost.


We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in 
rural areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of 
road with only a few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about 
$1000 of cable. A mile of innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a 
big product to plow if you're plowing, or has to be drilled in (more 
expensive).


In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we 
have to drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but 
it adds a lot of cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 
houses per mile. Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it!


Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC


On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with 
duct.
Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime 
you want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.

Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.

From:Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage 
is much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance 
cost over time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or 
add new handholes for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without 
duct the repair usually involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side 
of the damage and splicing in a new section of cable which will 
require double the number of splices and splice cases versus duct 
where you can pull spare cable in.


Mark

On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but 
in cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.



On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:
Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to 
construction both before and after.


Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like 
planning, permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all 
over the map, because it depends on how many miles you can spread 
fixed prebuild costs.


Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after 
you finish construction. Various reporting requirements and 
paperwork, locates, repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a 
brand new plant you have to budget for OPEX.


Jared


> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
> All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural 
direct plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   
12k is about as low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, 
boring, rock, urban, rail crossings, pipeline crossings will all add 
to that number.

>
> Mark
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman 
<lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost 
for backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.

>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Ken Hohhof]

Do you have backhoes in Michigan?

 

How do you handle splices when someone else is digging in the ROW and hits your 
direct burial fiber?  Two buried splice cases and a new run of fiber?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chris Fabien
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 12:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

 

If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the cost. 

 

We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in rural 
areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of road with only a 
few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about $1000 of cable. A mile of 
innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a big product to plow if you're 
plowing, or has to be drilled in (more expensive). 

 

In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we have to 
drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but it adds a lot of 
cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 houses per mile. Just my 
opinion, worth what you paid for it!

 

Chris Fabien

LakeNet LLC

 

 

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct.  

Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you want. 
 Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.

Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.  

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

 

Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is much 
harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost over time.  
With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new handholes for 
access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair usually involves 
exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and splicing in a new 
section of cable which will require double the number of splices and splice 
cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.

 

Mark

 

On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in cities 
close to standard numbers of road crossings. 

 

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com <mailto:fiber...@mail.com> > 
wrote:

Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction both 
before and after.

Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning, permits 
and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map, because it depends 
on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.

Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you finish 
construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates, repairs, 
maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to budget for 
OPEX.

Jared


> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net> >
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>

> All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct plowed 
> in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as low as I 
> have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail crossings, 
> pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
> > <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com> > wrote:
> >
> > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for 
> > backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>
>

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Chris Fabien]

If you have gophers and duct prevents that I suppose that's worth the cost.

We do not have gophers in Michigan. We put everything direct buried in
rural areas. In some cases we may plow in 12ct cable down a mile of road
with only a few obstacles that need to be bored. That's about $1000 of
cable. A mile of innerduct is about $2000 in material and is a big product
to plow if you're plowing, or has to be drilled in (more expensive).

In town we run duct, mainly because there are enough obstacles that we have
to drill it all anyway. There are certainly benefits to duct, but it adds a
lot of cost when you're looking at a rural area with maybe 10 houses per
mile. Just my opinion, worth what you paid for it!

Chris Fabien
LakeNet LLC


On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct.
> Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you
> want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
> Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
> Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is
> much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost
> over time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new
> handholes for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair
> usually involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and
> splicing in a new section of cable which will require double the number of
> splices and splice cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in
> cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction
>> both before and after.
>>
>> Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning,
>> permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map,
>> because it depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.
>>
>> Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you
>> finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates,
>> repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to
>> budget for OPEX.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
>> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>> >
>> > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct
>> plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as
>> low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail
>> crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for
>> backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Chuck McCown]

Yep, 1.25” ID is the most common followed by 2” ID
HDPE

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 9:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

When you say duct you mean this orange conduit, right? 

https://www.bdiky.com/siteadmin/includes/javascript/third_party/kcfinder/upload/images/3N1%20Boreable%20Conduit.jpg



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct.  
  Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you 
want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
  Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.  

  From: Mark Radabaugh 
  Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

  Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is 
much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost over 
time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new handholes 
for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair usually 
involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and splicing in a 
new section of cable which will require double the number of splices and splice 
cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.

  Mark

On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in 
cities close to standard numbers of road crossings. 



On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:

  Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction 
both before and after.

  Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning, 
permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map, because it 
depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.

  Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you 
finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates, 
repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to 
budget for OPEX.

  Jared


  > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
  > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
      > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
  >

  > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct 
plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as low 
as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail crossings, 
pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
  >
  > Mark
  >
  >
  > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
  > >
  > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for 
backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Josh Luthman]

When you say duct you mean this orange conduit, right?

https://www.bdiky.com/siteadmin/includes/javascript/third_party/kcfinder/upload/images/3N1%20Boreable%20Conduit.jpg


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct.
> Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you
> want.  Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
> Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
> Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is
> much harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost
> over time.  With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new
> handholes for access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair
> usually involves exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and
> splicing in a new section of cable which will require double the number of
> splices and splice cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in
> cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction
>> both before and after.
>>
>> Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning,
>> permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map,
>> because it depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.
>>
>> Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you
>> finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates,
>> repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to
>> budget for OPEX.
>>
>> Jared
>>
>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
>> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>> >
>> > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct
>> plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as
>> low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail
>> crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for
>> backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Chuck McCown]

I would never do direct again.  Gopher damage.  Doesn’t happen with duct.  
Plus with duct you can cut and pull out and go over and under anytime you want. 
 Saves in splicing and figure 8 ing etc.
Duct is worth the extra expense.  And it is not really that expensive.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 6:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is much 
harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost over time.  
With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new handholes for 
access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair usually involves 
exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and splicing in a new 
section of cable which will require double the number of splices and splice 
cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.

Mark

  On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

  All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in 
cities close to standard numbers of road crossings. 



  On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:

Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction both 
before and after.

Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning, 
permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map, because it 
depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.

Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you 
finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates, 
repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to 
budget for OPEX.

Jared


> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
> All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct 
plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as low 
as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail crossings, 
pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
>
> Mark
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
> >
> > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for 
backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Mark Radabaugh]

Duct or direct plow makes a difference.   Direct is cheaper but damage is much 
harder, takes longer to repair, and increases your maintenance cost over time.  
With direct bury you have no ability to pull slack or add new handholes for 
access.  In the event of a fiber cut without duct the repair usually involves 
exposing 100’ of cable on either side of the damage and splicing in a new 
section of cable which will require double the number of splices and splice 
cases versus duct where you can pull spare cable in.

Mark

> On Nov 17, 2016, at 8:03 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in 
> cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com <mailto:fiber...@mail.com>> 
> wrote:
> Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction both 
> before and after.
> 
> Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning, permits 
> and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map, because it 
> depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.
> 
> Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you finish 
> construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates, repairs, 
> maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to budget for 
> OPEX.
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net>>
> > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
> >
> > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct 
> > plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as 
> > low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail 
> > crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com 
> > > <mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for 
> > > backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
> >
> >

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Lewis Bergman]

All ROW are already in place.  Few road crossings in rural areas but in
cities close to standard numbers of road crossings.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 6:53 AM <fiber...@mail.com> wrote:

> Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction
> both before and after.
>
> Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning,
> permits and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map,
> because it depends on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs.
>
> Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you
> finish construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates,
> repairs, maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to
> budget for OPEX.
>
> Jared
>
>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
> > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
> >
> > All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct
> plowed in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as
> low as I have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail
> crossings, pipeline crossings will all add to that number.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for
> backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[fiberrun]

Just don't forget that there will be costs not related to construction both 
before and after. 

Some of them are onetime costs, not related to mileage like planning, permits 
and the like. This is one reason costs are all over the map, because it depends 
on how many miles you can spread fixed prebuild costs. 

Others are ongoing costs which will keep eating at you, even after you finish 
construction. Various reporting requirements and paperwork, locates, repairs, 
maintenance, etc. Even when you have a brand new plant you have to budget for 
OPEX. 

Jared


> Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 2:27 PM
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost
>
> All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct plowed 
> in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as low as I 
> have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail crossings, 
> pipeline crossings will all add to that number.   
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> > On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for 
> > backhaul fiber per mile in the ground.
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Cost

[Mark Radabaugh]

All over the place.   10k to 200k depending location. Rural direct plowed 
in good soil with no duct and nothing in the way?   12k is about as low as I 
have seen quoted.Road crossings, boring, rock, urban, rail crossings, 
pipeline crossings will all add to that number.   

Mark


> On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:52 AM, Lewis Bergman  wrote:
> 
> I know we have discussed this before but I wanted a current cost for backhaul 
> fiber per mile in the ground.