Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
+1
On 03/04/2015 11:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Monopoles are subject to the vortex shedding problem causing them to
oscillate. If the axis of the sway causes the dish to aim high and
then low it would do exactly what Jaime is guessing it is doing.
I would suggest mount the antennas lower if possible and/or use
smaller dishes. There is plenty of signal.
2’ or 18” would still work just fine at that range.
*From:* Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 10:35 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I would think the other way. Many guyed towers are not 100% stable in
rotation, and running a PTP link from one would likely require torque
arrestors.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 3/4/2015 8:51 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
The FCC document they gave me says 21 dBm tx power and that what is
set on radios according to guy who hired me to help verify path.
One 3 ft dish is on huge guyed tower and another on a monopole with
several other drums and a sectors.They experience signal drops
during high winds. my guess just from little data giving to me is
that monopole is oscillating enough to affect path with signal
drops.It is a very windy area and according to their IT guy this
is when they see some issues. Link doesn't drop completely but
alarms in windy season allot.
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:
Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come
up with a case where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly
never not on the side of caution.
Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest
modulation?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza
losguyswirel...@gmail.com mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Smart Dudes on the list:
Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to
compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if
they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming
up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded
urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space
loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable
loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other
details. I will get all that information on site.
I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the
start.
What are your thoughts Hobson?
Thx
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390 tel:915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come up with a case where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly never not on the side of caution. Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest modulation? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I noticed that, good thing you caught it =P Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:05 PM, Hardy, Tim tha...@comsearch.com wrote: (+/- 2.0 db)! *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Hardy, Tim *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:03 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question So, assuming 2’ antennas at 38.7 dBi, your RSLs should be around -33.8 dBm (+/1 2.0 dB) *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:54 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB *From:* Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM *To:* Animal Farm af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
Hum...I have always used it this way and have good results. I know from experience that funny things happen above 10GHz...guess all this new fangled stuff is showing my age. but I still hold that monopole moves just enough to affect stability of link. That's my story and I am sticking to it.. Thanks gentsI feel more confident for tomorrows presentation. Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Hardy, Tim tha...@comsearch.com wrote: The urban area figure you’re using includes clutter – not applicable to a los microwave path. *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:00 PM *To:* Animal Farm *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Wow ..close... I come up with 132.89 dB FSL and 143.41 dB urban area FSL ..so I guess if I back out the 2dB loss I am within 1.2dB of the calculations sent to me. Okay i am close. Cool...I can still add and subtract..yeah me! Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB *From:* Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM *To:* Animal Farm af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
So, assuming 2’ antennas at 38.7 dBi, your RSLs should be around -33.8 dBm (+/1 2.0 dB) From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:54 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB From: Jaime Solorzamailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM To: Animal Farmmailto:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
It's because you weren't taught this common core math garbage! =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote: Wow ..close... I come up with 132.89 dB FSL and 143.41 dB urban area FSL ..so I guess if I back out the 2dB loss I am within 1.2dB of the calculations sent to me. Okay i am close. Cool...I can still add and subtract..yeah me! Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB *From:* Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM *To:* Animal Farm af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
The FCC document they gave me says 21 dBm tx power and that what is set on radios according to guy who hired me to help verify path. One 3 ft dish is on huge guyed tower and another on a monopole with several other drums and a sectors.They experience signal drops during high winds. my guess just from little data giving to me is that monopole is oscillating enough to affect path with signal drops.It is a very windy area and according to their IT guy this is when they see some issues. Link doesn't drop completely but alarms in windy season allot. Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come up with a case where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly never not on the side of caution. Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest modulation? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
-30.39 dB FSL -40.41 dB urban area FSL report says 42db on antennas and -27.5 dB so if I adjust mine I am -28.39dB. what a few dB's among friends? Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Hardy, Tim tha...@comsearch.com wrote: So, assuming 2’ antennas at 38.7 dBi, your RSLs should be around -33.8 dBm (+/1 2.0 dB) *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:54 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB *From:* Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM *To:* Animal Farm af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
Sounds logical – a 3’ dish at 2° would be down about 10 dB and at 3° about 20 dB according to the pattern From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:14 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hum...I have always used it this way and have good results. I know from experience that funny things happen above 10GHz...guess all this new fangled stuff is showing my age. but I still hold that monopole moves just enough to affect stability of link. That's my story and I am sticking to it.. Thanks gentsI feel more confident for tomorrows presentation. Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Hardy, Tim tha...@comsearch.commailto:tha...@comsearch.com wrote: The urban area figure you’re using includes clutter – not applicable to a los microwave path. From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.commailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:00 PM To: Animal Farm Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Wow ..close... I come up with 132.89 dB FSL and 143.41 dB urban area FSL ..so I guess if I back out the 2dB loss I am within 1.2dB of the calculations sent to me. Okay i am close. Cool...I can still add and subtract..yeah me! Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390tel:915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.commailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB From: Jaime Solorzamailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM To: Animal Farmmailto:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390tel:915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB From: Jaime Solorza Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
Wow ..close... I come up with 132.89 dB FSL and 143.41 dB urban area FSL ..so I guess if I back out the 2dB loss I am within 1.2dB of the calculations sent to me. Okay i am close. Cool...I can still add and subtract..yeah me! Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB *From:* Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM *To:* Animal Farm af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
(+/- 2.0 db)! From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Hardy, Tim Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:03 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question So, assuming 2’ antennas at 38.7 dBi, your RSLs should be around -33.8 dBm (+/1 2.0 dB) From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:54 AM To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB From: Jaime Solorzamailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM To: Animal Farmmailto:af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
Monopoles are subject to the vortex shedding problem causing them to oscillate.
If the axis of the sway causes the dish to aim high and then low it would do
exactly what Jaime is guessing it is doing.
I would suggest mount the antennas lower if possible and/or use smaller dishes.
There is plenty of signal.
2’ or 18” would still work just fine at that range.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 10:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I would think the other way. Many guyed towers are not 100% stable in
rotation, and running a PTP link from one would likely require torque arrestors.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 3/4/2015 8:51 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
The FCC document they gave me says 21 dBm tx power and that what is set on
radios according to guy who hired me to help verify path. One 3 ft dish is on
huge guyed tower and another on a monopole with several other drums and a
sectors.They experience signal drops during high winds. my guess just from
little data giving to me is that monopole is oscillating enough to affect path
with signal drops.It is a very windy area and according to their IT guy
this is when they see some issues. Link doesn't drop completely but alarms in
windy season allot.
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:
Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come up with a
case where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly never not on the side of
caution.
Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest modulation?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Smart Dudes on the list:
Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what
someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free
space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I
am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space
loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do
not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that
information on site.
I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start.
What are your thoughts Hobson?
Thx
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
+1 On 03/04/2015 11:02 AM, Josh Luthman wrote: It's because you weren't taught this common core math garbage! =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote: Wow ..close... I come up with 132.89 dB FSL and 143.41 dB urban area FSL ..so I guess if I back out the 2dB loss I am within 1.2dB of the calculations sent to me. Okay i am close. Cool...I can still add and subtract..yeah me! Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 tel:915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB *From:* Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM *To:* Animal Farm mailto:af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 tel:915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
logical? Me? Hum, glad I watched every Star Trek episode...even the cartoons! Live Long and Prosper Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Hardy, Tim tha...@comsearch.com wrote: Sounds logical – a 3’ dish at 2° would be down about 10 dB and at 3° about 20 dB according to the pattern *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:14 PM *To:* Animal Farm *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hum...I have always used it this way and have good results. I know from experience that funny things happen above 10GHz...guess all this new fangled stuff is showing my age. but I still hold that monopole moves just enough to affect stability of link. That's my story and I am sticking to it.. Thanks gentsI feel more confident for tomorrows presentation. Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Hardy, Tim tha...@comsearch.com wrote: The urban area figure you’re using includes clutter – not applicable to a los microwave path. *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:00 PM *To:* Animal Farm *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Wow ..close... I come up with 132.89 dB FSL and 143.41 dB urban area FSL ..so I guess if I back out the 2dB loss I am within 1.2dB of the calculations sent to me. Okay i am close. Cool...I can still add and subtract..yeah me! Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: I have never had problems using simple free space path loss for these frequencies. I doubt there is significant cable or waveguide loss. Dragonwaves mount to the antenna and the gain of the antenna is at the interface. 96.6 + 20logD + 20log F Where F D are GHz and Miles. 96.6 + 10.5 + 25.1 = 132.2 dB *From:* Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 9:31 AM *To:* Animal Farm af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question Hello Smart Dudes on the list: Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on site. I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start. What are your thoughts Hobson? Thx Jaime Solorza Wireless Systems Architect 915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I would think the other way. Many guyed towers are not 100% stable in
rotation, and running a PTP link from one would likely require torque
arrestors.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 3/4/2015 8:51 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
The FCC document they gave me says 21 dBm tx power and that what is
set on radios according to guy who hired me to help verify path. One
3 ft dish is on huge guyed tower and another on a monopole with
several other drums and a sectors. They experience signal drops
during high winds. my guess just from little data giving to me is
that monopole is oscillating enough to affect path with signal drops.
It is a very windy area and according to their IT guy this is when
they see some issues. Link doesn't drop completely but alarms in
windy season allot.
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:
Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come
up with a case where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly
never not on the side of caution.
Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest
modulation?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 tel:937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343 tel:937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza
losguyswirel...@gmail.com mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Smart Dudes on the list:
Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to
compare what someone else came up with.I am wondering if
they used just unfaded free space loss calculation and coming
up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using unfaded
urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space
loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable
loss since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other
details. I will get all that information on site.
I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the
start.
What are your thoughts Hobson?
Thx
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390 tel:915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
Vortex shredding...What a terrifying phrase. All this winter the U.S. NE
quadrant has been polar vortex shredded!
Patrick Leary
M 727.501.3735
[cid:image001.png@01D0567B.131B5970]http://mkt2.us/TelrdNet
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 12:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
Monopoles are subject to the vortex shedding problem causing them to oscillate.
If the axis of the sway causes the dish to aim high and then low it would do
exactly what Jaime is guessing it is doing.
I would suggest mount the antennas lower if possible and/or use smaller dishes.
There is plenty of signal.
2’ or 18” would still work just fine at that range.
From: Bill Princemailto:part15...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 10:35 AM
To: af@afmug.commailto:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I would think the other way. Many guyed towers are not 100% stable in
rotation, and running a PTP link from one would likely require torque arrestors.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 3/4/2015 8:51 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
The FCC document they gave me says 21 dBm tx power and that what is set on
radios according to guy who hired me to help verify path. One 3 ft dish is on
huge guyed tower and another on a monopole with several other drums and a
sectors.They experience signal drops during high winds. my guess just from
little data giving to me is that monopole is oscillating enough to affect path
with signal drops.It is a very windy area and according to their IT guy
this is when they see some issues. Link doesn't drop completely but alarms in
windy season allot.
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Josh Luthman
j...@imaginenetworksllc.commailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote:
Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come up with a case
where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly never not on the side of
caution.
Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest modulation?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340tel:937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343tel:937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza
losguyswirel...@gmail.commailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Smart Dudes on the list:
Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what someone
else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free space loss
calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I am using
unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space loss we are
within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do not know if
waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that information on
site.
I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start.
What are your thoughts Hobson?
Thx
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390tel:915-861-1390
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer
viruses.
This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer
viruses.
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
The guyed tower looks solidly built and guyed when I saw it a few weeks ago
on way to find a restaurant in Midland.
275 footer with dish at 150ft level
Jaime Solorza
On Mar 4, 2015 10:44 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Monopoles are subject to the vortex shedding problem causing them to
oscillate. If the axis of the sway causes the dish to aim high and then
low it would do exactly what Jaime is guessing it is doing.
I would suggest mount the antennas lower if possible and/or use smaller
dishes. There is plenty of signal.
2’ or 18” would still work just fine at that range.
*From:* Bill Prince part15...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2015 10:35 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I would think the other way. Many guyed towers are not 100% stable in
rotation, and running a PTP link from one would likely require torque
arrestors.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 3/4/2015 8:51 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
The FCC document they gave me says 21 dBm tx power and that what is set on
radios according to guy who hired me to help verify path. One 3 ft dish
is on huge guyed tower and another on a monopole with several other drums
and a sectors.They experience signal drops during high winds. my guess
just from little data giving to me is that monopole is oscillating enough
to affect path with signal drops.It is a very windy area and according
to their IT guy this is when they see some issues. Link doesn't drop
completely but alarms in windy season allot.
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:
Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come up with
a case where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly never not on the
side of caution.
Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest
modulation?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza losguyswirel...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Smart Dudes on the list:
Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what
someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free
space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine,
I am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free
space loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss
since I do not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will
get all that information on site.
I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start.
What are your thoughts Hobson?
Thx
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
With a signal that strong, there may be misalignment issues too where any
movement of one of the antenna puts you down on the side of the main lobe.
From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 11:33 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
The guyed tower looks solidly built and guyed when I saw it a few weeks ago on
way to find a restaurant in Midland.
275 footer with dish at 150ft level
Jaime Solorza
On Mar 4, 2015 10:44 AM, Chuck McCown ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Monopoles are subject to the vortex shedding problem causing them to
oscillate. If the axis of the sway causes the dish to aim high and then low it
would do exactly what Jaime is guessing it is doing.
I would suggest mount the antennas lower if possible and/or use smaller
dishes. There is plenty of signal.
2’ or 18” would still work just fine at that range.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 10:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Smart guys on lost question
I would think the other way. Many guyed towers are not 100% stable in
rotation, and running a PTP link from one would likely require torque arrestors.
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On 3/4/2015 8:51 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
The FCC document they gave me says 21 dBm tx power and that what is set on
radios according to guy who hired me to help verify path. One 3 ft dish is on
huge guyed tower and another on a monopole with several other drums and a
sectors.They experience signal drops during high winds. my guess just from
little data giving to me is that monopole is oscillating enough to affect path
with signal drops.It is a very windy area and according to their IT guy
this is when they see some issues. Link doesn't drop completely but alarms in
windy season allot.
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
wrote:
Always listen to the manufacturer. I don't anyone has ever come up with
a case where their figure was noticeably off. Certainly never not on the side
of caution.
Are you using their full tx power or the tx power of the highest
modulation?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Jaime Solorza
losguyswirel...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Smart Dudes on the list:
Running a 3.348 mile path for 18 Ghz Dragonwave link to compare what
someone else came up with.I am wondering if they used just unfaded free
space loss calculation and coming up with a figure 10dB better than mine, I
am using unfaded urban area free space loss for mime. I use just free space
loss we are within 3db of each other. I added 1 db of cable loss since I do
not know if waveguide was used or many other details. I will get all that
information on site.
I have always engineered paths on conservative side since the start.
What are your thoughts Hobson?
Thx
Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390
