Re: DIS: computer, locate the first officer please
On 26 July 2010 18:54, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote: ...where Lower Deck is adjacent to Enginge Room which is also adjacent to Bridge. Which is adjacent to what now? I can parse which is also as applying to either Engine Room or Lower Deck. -G. Really? I'm not a native speaker, but I was fairly certain it could only apply to Engine Room in that sentence. Otherwise it should be Lower Deck, which is adjacent to Engine Room, is adjacent to Bridge (Or the other way around. Or something with both, as well or simply and.) -- -Tiger
Re: DIS: To repair listlessness
On 07/25/2010 04:29 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: Proto: Reinventing The List (AI-2) Create the following rule, The List of Succession, Power=2: The List of Succession is an ordered list of all current players except the current Speaker. The first (1st) position is the highest (top) position on the list and the last (Nth position, where N is the number of players on the list), is the lowest (bottom) position. The List of Succession is part of the Herald's weekly report, and players' positions on the list are self-ratifying. The report is self-ratifying, please. Positions are not documents. When a person is moved forward (up) P places on the list, they are moved to be just above (immediately higher than) the person P places ahead of em on the list - if there are not P players higher than em, e is moved to the top of the list. When a person is moved backwards (down) P places on the list, they are moved to be just below (immediately lower than) the person B places behind em on the list - if there are not B players lower than em, e is moved to the bottom of the list. Why is forward and backward used at all? Up and down seem to be far more popular. Any attempt to move the Speaker on the list fails, as e is not on the list. The Speaker may only be added to the list as part of an Ascension, described elsewhere. This is a contradiction, quite possibly tortoise-worthy. Also, I don't like the term Ascension. Whenever a player other than the Speaker is not on the list, or eir position on the list is found by a judge to be UNDETERMINED or UNDECIDABLE, e is added to the list below the lowest player whose position on the list is known. Judicial Declaration, also deal with the case of multiple players being unknown in the same case or the like. Amend Rule 402 (Identity of the Speaker) to read: An Ascension is initiated by announcing that a player (the ascending player) other than the Speaker ascends to the role of Speaker. A player CAN initiate an Ascension for a given ascending player only when explicitly permitted by the rules. When an Ascension is initiated, the current Speaker is removed from office and placed on the bottom of the list of succession, and immediately thereafter the ascending player becomes the Speaker and is removed from the list of succession. If no player has ascended in the previous 60 days, or the current Speaker is inactive or the office is vacant, than any player CAN initiate an ascension for the highest active player on the List of Succession. Destiny is a player switch tracked by the Herald with values Unmarked (default) and Marked. When a player wins the game, e becomes Marked. If no player has ascended in the previous 7 days, than any player CAN initiate an ascension for any single specified Marked player. When a player ascends, e becomes Unmarked. [When multiple players win, they can cycle through speakership at 7-day intervals with order of winning not mattering] Amend Rule 103 (Role of the Speaker) to read: The Speaker is an imposed office and a figurehead of Agora. The Speaker is a person who has proven themselves to be worthy of the title, and for a time can direct Agoran government affairs. If e has not already done so this month, or if e hasn't done so since e gained office, the Speaker CAN Reshuffle Cabinet, by announcement. A Cabinet Reshuffle announcement is a list of four other players numbered 1-4 on the list. This announcement moves the named players to positions 1-4 on the List of Succession. I'd rather not hardcode the number of players. Amend Rule 2255 (Cards) by changing its title to The Cabinet Amend Rule 2255 to read: A rule with a power equal to or greater than this rule may associate a Position Name with numbered position on the List of Succession. The player occupying a named position on the list is considered to be the holder of the names position and have the powers and duties described by the Rules for that position. The holder of a so-named position is a Cabinet Member. A Ministry? A Department? Something more original! Additionally, a rule with a power equal to or greater than this rule may associate an integer Influence Level with a specific numbered position on the List of Succession. The following positions on the List of Succession are named, and have inidicated Influence Levels. All other positions on the list have an Influence Level of 3. The Speaker has an Influence Level of 3. Rules rely on the influence
DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Hear Ye, Hear Ye!
On Tue, 2010-07-27 at 08:22 -0600, Sean Hunt wrote: I doth herebye annonce that coppro do hath winneth the Game, that e be nowe awardede Champion, ande that heartofore e be Speaker of Agora! I find it very interesting that nobody's made the win announcement for the publically-acknowledge proposal yet. Personally, I think it'd be more fun to leave it hanging and resurrect it years later, catching people by surprise, than it would be to do it immediately. (IIRC, there isn't a time limit.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: To repair listlessness
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Sean Hunt wrote: On 07/25/2010 04:29 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: Proto: Reinventing The List (AI-2) [comments] Thanks for the comments. Most are right on. On this: Also, I don't like the term Ascension. And this: A Ministry? A Department? Something more original! I open the floor for suggesting preferred metaphors... I was generally staying with the voting and government theme but: Coronation, Courtiers, and Viziers? Grounding and voltages? (seems forced)? Takeoff and Mission Control? [etc.] -G.
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Hear Ye, Hear Ye!
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, ais523 wrote: On Tue, 2010-07-27 at 08:22 -0600, Sean Hunt wrote: I doth herebye annonce that coppro do hath winneth the Game, that e be nowe awardede Champion, ande that heartofore e be Speaker of Agora! I find it very interesting that nobody's made the win announcement for the publically-acknowledge proposal yet. Personally, I think it'd be more fun to leave it hanging and resurrect it years later, catching people by surprise, than it would be to do it immediately. (IIRC, there isn't a time limit.) It would be more fun if acknowledging the proposal at all, even after the proposal was voted on and adopted, was a losing condition... oh, well. Last year I did make BobTHJ Champion ~1.5 years after the fact... -G.
Re: DIS: To repair listlessness
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Sean Hunt wrote: A cost of 2P, or different costs for up and down or for personal and targeted moves would still probably be fine; the list is not dynamic if it involves each player just moving to each office they want when it's convenient. Just a comment here: since moving the Pth person down is equivalent to moving the P+1th person up, and moving yourself up is equivalent to moving the person above you down), I was having a hard time coming up with a way to have differential costs for different directions or self versus other. Is it possible in a meaningful way? -G.
Re: DIS: To repair listlessness
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 17:29, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote: Proto: Reinventing The List (AI-2) I understand, of course, that the List of Succession is broken. However, I feel like this proposal will basically just create a mad push 60 days after the previous Speaker is out of office to reach the top. Or maybe it won't because holding the office of Speaker seems to suck under this proposal. I feel like being Speaker should be a reward for a significant accomplishment, like winning the game most recently, and there should be a reward that comes with it.
Re: DIS: To repair listlessness
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, Aaron Goldfein wrote: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 17:29, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote Proto: Reinventing The List (AI-2) I understand, of course, that the List of Succession is broken. However, I feel like this proposal will basically just create a mad push 60 days after the previous Speaker is out of office to reach the top. Or maybe it won't because holding the office of Speaker seems to suck under this proposal. I feel like being Speaker should be a reward for a significant accomplishment, like winning the game most recently, and there should be a reward that comes with it. A significant award that lasts for 60 days. That's a good amount of time in this game. I'm happy to extend that to 90 days. We've often had speaker turnover at set ~quarterly intervals in the past and it makes it much more interesting than current, when it gets stuck. I think games that require you to quietly plan for a while for an upcoming mad rush are very very interesting. It was one of the better features of castes and something I'm trying to bring back. I'm also happy to give the Speaker more powers, but that's possibly orthogonal to the method of becoming Speaker; maybe an alternate (parallel) proposal. On the other hand, I purposefully set it up so the Speaker is like the President in a parliamentary system, or House of Lords... that is, a Figurehead. With influence to restructure things, but with the direct power lying with the second and lower positions, and that's where some of the gamesmanship lies. But you're right, becoming a figurehead doesn't seem like the right reward for winning. Maybe one possibility is that, when you Win the game, you get a ticket to make a major List reorganization within the next N days; you can make yourself speaker, or someone else, and there's enough hysteresis in the List so that the effects of doing so last for a while and impact the game before individual spending perturbs it too much. You and coppro are right... a lot of success of this system is in tinkering with the balance of position stability versus dynamic play and List movement; I'll tinker with list movement costs and position holding for the next draft, but it may be that the secret is making it easy to adjust later if the balance feels off. -G.
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: computer, locate the first officer please
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:18, Jonatan Kilhamn jonatan.kilh...@gmail.com wrote: Really? I'm not a native speaker You're not? You fooled me. Also, I was under the impression that Lower Deck was the one adjacent to the others. It's defintely ambiguous. Speaking of which, I CFJ on the following sentence. Lower Deck is adjacent to Bridge. Gratuitous: I thought the wording was a little confusing, but unambiguous: which refers to the nearer object, Engine Room.
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: computer, locate the first officer please
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010, comex wrote: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 01:18, Jonatan Kilhamn jonatan.kilh...@gmail.com wrote: Really? I'm not a native speaker You're not? You fooled me. Also, I was under the impression that Lower Deck was the one adjacent to the others. It's defintely ambiguous. Speaking of which, I CFJ on the following sentence. Lower Deck is adjacent to Bridge. Gratuitous: I thought the wording was a little confusing, but unambiguous: which refers to the nearer object, Engine Room. Gratuitous also: While I'm the one that raised the question, I also thought it was probably intended to be this way (and as Tiger says, it was), but that it was confusing enough that I should double-check in the discussion forum. -G.
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Hear Ye, Hear Ye!
ais523 wrote: On Tue, 2010-07-27 at 08:22 -0600, Sean Hunt wrote: I doth herebye annonce that coppro do hath winneth the Game, that e be nowe awardede Champion, ande that heartofore e be Speaker of Agora! I find it very interesting that nobody's made the win announcement for the publically-acknowledge proposal yet. Personally, I think it'd be more fun to leave it hanging and resurrect it years later, catching people by surprise, than it would be to do it immediately. (IIRC, there isn't a time limit.) No CFJ yet, but did the voting-results message itself count as a win announcement?
