DIS: Awards Month is Coming! [attn. ADoP, Arbitor, Tailor]
Awards Month takes place in April, which starts in a little less than two weeks. All the officers I've pinged, plus Promotor, will be responsible for conducting the festivities. I just wanted to remind everyone, since we pretty regularly forget annual events. -Aris
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: (no subject)
I'm not really sure why I even tried to do this in the first place <.< On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 10:06 PM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 09:03:17PM -0400, Jason Cobb via agora-business > wrote: > > On 3/20/21 9:02 PM, Collin Tir via agora-official wrote: > > > i intend to declare apathy without objection, with myself. > > > > > > I object. > > Me too. > > -- > Falsifian >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [proposal] We care after the first time
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 01:21:10PM -0700, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion
wrote:
>
> On 3/19/2021 12:51 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion wrote:
> >> On Mar 19, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> {
> >>
> >> Amend Rule 2465, "Victory by Apathy", by replacing the final "."
> >> character with the following: ", except for those who have won the game
> >> through this Rule in the past 14 days."
> >>
> >> }
> >
> > This is an important fix (and I would vote for it as is), but I wonder if
> > we should really ban multiple resolution of intents in general.
>
>
> We also talked recently about making a timeout for "winning by the same
> method" in the general win rule. Not sure if that's an "instead of" or
> "in addition to".
>
> -G.
Hm, it would be interesting trying to block it with general language.
Would it apply to scams, if someone repeats it without making any
interesting changes?
I might be be AGAINST piecemeal patches like this for individual
victory conditions. Just not sure it's worth the text, given there are
all sorts of ways to win (most of which are probably currently outside
the realm of mortal knowledge).
--
Falsifian
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposal 8544
On 3/20/21 10:20 PM, Falsifian via agora-discussion wrote: > On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 07:35:41PM -0400, Jason Cobb via agora-official wrote: >> I hereby resolve the Agoran decisions to adopt the below proposals. I >> hereby end the extended voting period under Rule 2168, as the decision >> now meets quorum. >> >> The quorum for all below decisions was 5. >> >> PROPOSAL 8544 (Clarify dependent actions) >> AUTHOR: Murphy >> CLASS: DEMOCRATIC >> FOR (2): Falsifian, Murphy > I thought I voted PRESENT. Doesn't affect the outcome though. > You're right, my mistake. If you want to CoE, I'm happy to re-resolve. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposal 8544
On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 07:35:41PM -0400, Jason Cobb via agora-official wrote: > I hereby resolve the Agoran decisions to adopt the below proposals. I > hereby end the extended voting period under Rule 2168, as the decision > now meets quorum. > > The quorum for all below decisions was 5. > > PROPOSAL 8544 (Clarify dependent actions) > AUTHOR: Murphy > CLASS: DEMOCRATIC > FOR (2): Falsifian, Murphy I thought I voted PRESENT. Doesn't affect the outcome though. > AGAINST (1): Jason > PRESENT (2): Aris, Trigon > BALLOTS: 5 > AI (F/A): 6/3 (AI=3.0) > POPULARITY: 0.200 > OUTCOME: REJECTED > [ > Jason: Conditional resolved: G. did not vote FOR > ] > -- Falsifian
Re: DIS: (no subject)
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 6:22 PM Collin Tir via agora-discussion wrote: > > forgot to say this in my joining message but call me "Jumble". Just as a quick note, you should give your messages a title, describing the contents in some way (the exception is replies, which automatically have the existing title of the thread) -Aris
DIS: (no subject)
forgot to say this in my joining message but call me "Jumble".
DIS: (no subject)
I join Agora Nomic. I intend to declare apathy without objection, with myself.
DIS: (no subject)
DIS: Discord digest 2021-03-20
THIS MESSAGE CONTAINS NO GAME ACTIONS. SERIOUSLY, IT CONTAINS NO GAME ACTIONS. DISREGARD ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS MESSAGE SAYING IT CONTAINS A GAME ACTION. MESSAGE 821531847162462239 FROM nix (gnu/nix) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-16 AT 23:54:15.687: I'm pretty sure the discussion went exactly like this: me: we need taxes to stop inflation aris: what if we inflated pay to match inflation me: but that'll cause more inflation aris: it'll be fine me: I'm not convinced but sounds chaotic enough MESSAGE 821563975858782249 FROM G. (G., The Final Judge) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-17 AT 02:01:55.765: I made the *'s uneven on purpose MESSAGE 822103009974026250 FROM ATMunn (friendly neighborhood notary) IN #drafting ON 2021-03-18 AT 13:43:51.513: MESSAGE 822107523104374824 FROM nix (gnu/nix) IN #drafting ON 2021-03-18 AT 14:01:47.527: agorabot malfunctioning or intentionally won't star that kind of message? MESSAGE 822386331182432257 FROM Cuddlebeam (Wolf) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-19 AT 08:29:40.553: This message consists only of attachments: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/724079019578097684/822386331115978762/unknown.png MESSAGE 822636316477882408 FROM bookshelf (Aris) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 01:03:01.692: Ratification is a bolted together cyborg entity that takes a PhD to fully understand and only works because Agorans give up their hopes and dreams to power it. MESSAGE 822640253676421130 FROM CodeTriangle (Fifth Most Influential Agoran) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 01:18:40.393: i was taliking to the banana MESSAGE 822640313344196639 FROM CodeTriangle (Fifth Most Influential Agoran) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 01:18:54.619: it was a sick roast MESSAGE 822642606168473661 FROM bookshelf (Aris) IN #generalchat ON 2021-03-20 AT 01:28:01.271: I think we are probably going to need to pull out one of those ratification reform plans. MESSAGE 822643269028675634 FROM rosewinsall (cuddlybanana) IN #generalchat ON 2021-03-20 AT 01:30:39.309: the real ratification was the friend we made along the way MESSAGE 822644025521471518 FROM Random Internet Cat (get out the vote cat) IN #generalchat ON 2021-03-20 AT 01:33:39.671: current state of infinite nomic This message has attachments https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/724077429412331563/822644025369559040/Screenshot_from_2021-03-19_21-33-16.png MESSAGE 822644701752197180 FROM bookshelf (Aris) IN #generalchat ON 2021-03-20 AT 01:36:20.897: I suggest you patch it by replacing all numbers in the ruleset with the text "a sufusion of yellow". MESSAGE 822853733464801311 FROM AgoraBot IN #botspam ON 2021-03-20 AT 15:26:57.941: "agorabot carefully considers every cfj and responds truthfully" judged WHO KNOWS. MESSAGE 822919003931934721 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:46:19.633: alright, draft judgement sent to DIS. I probably won't wait around for too long since people are waiting, but if anyone wants to point out any glaring errors/omissions now's the time MESSAGE 822919593978757193 FROM Random Internet Cat (get out the vote cat) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:48:40.311: Is acting on behalf a regulated action? MESSAGE 822919976808742922 FROM Random Internet Cat (get out the vote cat) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:50:11.585: if so, I'm not convinced by the "plain-English reading" argument, since you still need a Rules-specified method to do it MESSAGE 822921088945225768 FROM bookshelf (Aris) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:54:36.739: Acting on behalf here is more like the method than the action? MESSAGE 822921129861316698 FROM bookshelf (Aris) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:54:46.494: Method doesn't quite fit either. MESSAGE 822921606706757672 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:56:40.183: I think acting on behalf of another person is, but not acting on behalf in general MESSAGE 822921770100064306 FROM Random Internet Cat (get out the vote cat) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:57:19.139: hmm MESSAGE 822922119569604688 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:58:42.459: btw, is there really no power requirement for allowing acting on behalf? MESSAGE 822922202214826034 FROM bookshelf (Aris) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:59:02.163: There is one. MESSAGE 822922230970843197 FROM bookshelf (Aris) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:59:09.019: I think it's power 2? MESSAGE 822922249685565461 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 19:59:13.481: ohh I can read gud MESSAGE 822922498655649833 FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-03-20 AT 20:00:12.84: (might argue that it should be 3, given that there's pretty trivial escalation by voting + resolving a
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [thesis] Voting Thesis [attn. Herald]
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 11:23 AM Reuben Staley via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 3/20/21 8:27 AM, nix via agora-discussion wrote: > > On Saturday, March 20, 2021 9:26:08 AM CDT nix via agora-discussion > wrote: > >> On Friday, March 19, 2021 11:26:16 PM CDT Jason Cobb via agora-business > > wrote: > >>> H. Herald, I submit the following document as a thesis in the hopes of > >>> earning a degree. > >> > >> Here's what the rules have to say about degree requirements: > >> > >>Degrees SHOULD be awarded according to the extent to which the > >>thesis contributes to Nomic culture or thought: Associate degrees > >>for an appreciable contribution, Baccalaureate degrees for a > >>substantial contribution, Magisteriate degrees for a remarkable > >>contribution, and Doctorate degrees for an exceptional > >>contribution. Any degree at the Doctorate level SHOULD take into > >>account the awardee's academic history and participation in Agora > >>over time. > >> > >>Theses for Artistry degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial > >>creativity and need not be in written form. Theses for all other > >>degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial research or analysis. J.N. > >>and D.N.Law are appropriate for high-quality legal analysis, of > >>the sort typical to CFJs, but exceeding an ordinary CFJ in depth. > >>The D.N.Hist. degree is appropriate for historical research, > >>especially when it presents a narrative that educates Agorans > >>about the events of the past. The D.N.Sci. degree is appropriate > >>for theses that demonstrate concrete or scientific thinking, > >>whereas the D.N.Phil. is appropriate for theses that demonstrate > >>abstract or philosophical thinking. > >> > >> With that in mind, I'm open to suggestions (from anyone) for what > degree to > >> confer. I'll intend any compelling ones and only resolve the highest > >> resolvable. > >> > >> -- > >> nix > >> Ministor, Herald, Webmastor > > > > Oh, and here's the list of degrees: > > > >- Associate of Nomic Artistry(A.N.A.) > >- Associate of Nomic (A.N.) > >- Juris Doctorate of Nomic (J.N.) > >- Baccalaureate of Nomic Artistry(B.N.A.) > >- Baccalaureate of Nomic (B.N.) > >- Magisteriate of Nomic Artistry (M.N.A.) > >- Magisteriate of Nomic (M.N.) > >- Doctorate of Nomic Artistry(D.N.Art.) > >- Doctorate of Nomic History (D.N.Hist.) > >- Doctorate of Nomic Law (D.N.Law.) > >- Doctorate of Nomic Science (D.N.Sci.) > >- Doctorate of Nomic Philosophy (D.N.Phil.) > > > > Let us begin with what is clearly not applicable. This thesis, though it > includes images, is clearly more research-focused and therefore does not > merit an Artistry degree. Furthermore, Jason already has a Magisteriate > of Nomic and it would therefore be unfair to em to give the same degree > twice. > > I think that this thesis represents significant effort, at least enough > for a Baccalaureate of Nomic. I do not know if it represents enough for > a Doctorate, but if it is decided that that is the correct level, a > D.N.Sci. seems most appropriate. These are thus my two suggestions. Agreed that those are really the two options here. It's a pity e already has a Magisteriate, as that would probably have been the best fit all around. As is, I'm slightly more inclined to round up than round down, but I'm still thinking it through. -Aris >
DIS: CFJ 3901 draft-judged PARADOXICAL
At question is a promise that purports to recursively create and cash a promise
with identical text, causing G's vote on proposal 8543 to fluctuate
indefinitely between two values.
# What does it mean to cash a promise?
2618/2: { A promise's bearer CAN, by announcement, cash the promise, provided
that any conditions for cashing it specified by its text are unambiguously met.
By doing so, e acts on the creator of the promise's behalf, causing the creator
to act as if e published the promise's text, and destroys the promise. }
# Can a promise create a promise?
Promise creation is permitted by 2618/2: { A consenting player CAN, by
announcement, grant a specified entity a promise, specifying its text and
becoming its creator. }
G. is a player, and 2519/2 explicitly states that a player consents to an
action if { the action is taken as part of a promise which e created }; no
issues there. What about the "by announcement, specifying its text" bit? If G.
just published the text of the promise, it'd certainly qualify, so "act[ing] as
if e published the promise's text" should work fine.
No issues here.
# Can a promise cash a promise?
Sure, it's by announcement. We've already seen that works.
# Wait, can you cash your own promises at all?
This one's interesting. 2466/2 only gives the phrase "acting on behalf" any
special meaning when it's on behalf of another person, so "acting on one's own
behalf" doesn't really have any special meaning or significance. By a
plain-English reading, acting on one's behalf to do something is just doing the
thing. So I think this works just fine.
# What about that conditional in the promise?
Good question, heading. Agora's support for conditional actions is famously not
specified by the rules, only precedent, rooting from 478/38's definition of
performing an action "by announcement" as "unambiguously and clearly specifying
the action and announcing that e performs it". It's widely held that, at some
point, a conditional can become too difficult to resolve to meet the
"unambiguously and clearly" standard. Do we run into that here?
We generally permit conditionals based on ambiguous game state, for converging
the game state and such. This might fall into that category. But this doesn't
really matter, as I shall show below.
Let's say there exists some point at which the state of G.'s vote is so
ambiguous that it can no longer be used as a valid conditional. Where would
that point be? Certainly not after the first flip—at that point, it's just been
flipped once, so it's still perfectly clear. It remains clear after the second
flip, or the third flip, or indeed any finite number of flips; the ambiguity
arises only after an infinite (or arbitrarily large) number of flips back and
forth. Even if the conditional stopped functioning at that point, the state of
G's vote is already unknown. After all, if it was known, the conditional
wouldn't be ambiguous!
So even if the conditional stops functioning at some point, it would only be
after the damage was already done.
# So what's the verdict?
I find PARADOXICAL. Congratulations, G.!
Gaelan
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [thesis] Voting Thesis [attn. Herald]
On 3/20/21 8:27 AM, nix via agora-discussion wrote: On Saturday, March 20, 2021 9:26:08 AM CDT nix via agora-discussion wrote: On Friday, March 19, 2021 11:26:16 PM CDT Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: H. Herald, I submit the following document as a thesis in the hopes of earning a degree. Here's what the rules have to say about degree requirements: Degrees SHOULD be awarded according to the extent to which the thesis contributes to Nomic culture or thought: Associate degrees for an appreciable contribution, Baccalaureate degrees for a substantial contribution, Magisteriate degrees for a remarkable contribution, and Doctorate degrees for an exceptional contribution. Any degree at the Doctorate level SHOULD take into account the awardee's academic history and participation in Agora over time. Theses for Artistry degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial creativity and need not be in written form. Theses for all other degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial research or analysis. J.N. and D.N.Law are appropriate for high-quality legal analysis, of the sort typical to CFJs, but exceeding an ordinary CFJ in depth. The D.N.Hist. degree is appropriate for historical research, especially when it presents a narrative that educates Agorans about the events of the past. The D.N.Sci. degree is appropriate for theses that demonstrate concrete or scientific thinking, whereas the D.N.Phil. is appropriate for theses that demonstrate abstract or philosophical thinking. With that in mind, I'm open to suggestions (from anyone) for what degree to confer. I'll intend any compelling ones and only resolve the highest resolvable. -- nix Ministor, Herald, Webmastor Oh, and here's the list of degrees: - Associate of Nomic Artistry(A.N.A.) - Associate of Nomic (A.N.) - Juris Doctorate of Nomic (J.N.) - Baccalaureate of Nomic Artistry(B.N.A.) - Baccalaureate of Nomic (B.N.) - Magisteriate of Nomic Artistry (M.N.A.) - Magisteriate of Nomic (M.N.) - Doctorate of Nomic Artistry(D.N.Art.) - Doctorate of Nomic History (D.N.Hist.) - Doctorate of Nomic Law (D.N.Law.) - Doctorate of Nomic Science (D.N.Sci.) - Doctorate of Nomic Philosophy (D.N.Phil.) Let us begin with what is clearly not applicable. This thesis, though it includes images, is clearly more research-focused and therefore does not merit an Artistry degree. Furthermore, Jason already has a Magisteriate of Nomic and it would therefore be unfair to em to give the same degree twice. I think that this thesis represents significant effort, at least enough for a Baccalaureate of Nomic. I do not know if it represents enough for a Doctorate, but if it is decided that that is the correct level, a D.N.Sci. seems most appropriate. These are thus my two suggestions. -- Trigon ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST I’m always happy to become a party to contracts. I LOVE SPAGHETTI transfer Jason one coin nch was here I hereby don't... trust... the dragon... don't... trust... the dragon... Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Intending New Long Service Awards
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 1:10:56 PM CDT nix via agora-official wrote: > These players are currently due for a higher service award. Note that there are likely other people missing service awards. I cross- referenced the scroll and latest ADoP report to make these lists, so that excludes anyone that isn't currently an officer but may have earned one and never received the title. I'll be doing historical work eventually to try to find these, but if you know any (and can point to the evidence) please let me know. -- nix Ministor, Herald, Webmastor
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [thesis] Voting Thesis [attn. Herald]
On Saturday, March 20, 2021 9:26:08 AM CDT nix via agora-discussion wrote: > On Friday, March 19, 2021 11:26:16 PM CDT Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > H. Herald, I submit the following document as a thesis in the hopes of > > earning a degree. > > Here's what the rules have to say about degree requirements: > > Degrees SHOULD be awarded according to the extent to which the > thesis contributes to Nomic culture or thought: Associate degrees > for an appreciable contribution, Baccalaureate degrees for a > substantial contribution, Magisteriate degrees for a remarkable > contribution, and Doctorate degrees for an exceptional > contribution. Any degree at the Doctorate level SHOULD take into > account the awardee's academic history and participation in Agora > over time. > > Theses for Artistry degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial > creativity and need not be in written form. Theses for all other > degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial research or analysis. J.N. > and D.N.Law are appropriate for high-quality legal analysis, of > the sort typical to CFJs, but exceeding an ordinary CFJ in depth. > The D.N.Hist. degree is appropriate for historical research, > especially when it presents a narrative that educates Agorans > about the events of the past. The D.N.Sci. degree is appropriate > for theses that demonstrate concrete or scientific thinking, > whereas the D.N.Phil. is appropriate for theses that demonstrate > abstract or philosophical thinking. > > With that in mind, I'm open to suggestions (from anyone) for what degree to > confer. I'll intend any compelling ones and only resolve the highest > resolvable. > > -- > nix > Ministor, Herald, Webmastor Oh, and here's the list of degrees: - Associate of Nomic Artistry(A.N.A.) - Associate of Nomic (A.N.) - Juris Doctorate of Nomic (J.N.) - Baccalaureate of Nomic Artistry(B.N.A.) - Baccalaureate of Nomic (B.N.) - Magisteriate of Nomic Artistry (M.N.A.) - Magisteriate of Nomic (M.N.) - Doctorate of Nomic Artistry(D.N.Art.) - Doctorate of Nomic History (D.N.Hist.) - Doctorate of Nomic Law (D.N.Law.) - Doctorate of Nomic Science (D.N.Sci.) - Doctorate of Nomic Philosophy (D.N.Phil.) -- nix Ministor, Herald, Webmastor
DIS: Re: BUS: [thesis] Voting Thesis [attn. Herald]
On Friday, March 19, 2021 11:26:16 PM CDT Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > H. Herald, I submit the following document as a thesis in the hopes of > earning a degree. Here's what the rules have to say about degree requirements: Degrees SHOULD be awarded according to the extent to which the thesis contributes to Nomic culture or thought: Associate degrees for an appreciable contribution, Baccalaureate degrees for a substantial contribution, Magisteriate degrees for a remarkable contribution, and Doctorate degrees for an exceptional contribution. Any degree at the Doctorate level SHOULD take into account the awardee's academic history and participation in Agora over time. Theses for Artistry degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial creativity and need not be in written form. Theses for all other degrees SHOULD demonstrate substantial research or analysis. J.N. and D.N.Law are appropriate for high-quality legal analysis, of the sort typical to CFJs, but exceeding an ordinary CFJ in depth. The D.N.Hist. degree is appropriate for historical research, especially when it presents a narrative that educates Agorans about the events of the past. The D.N.Sci. degree is appropriate for theses that demonstrate concrete or scientific thinking, whereas the D.N.Phil. is appropriate for theses that demonstrate abstract or philosophical thinking. With that in mind, I'm open to suggestions (from anyone) for what degree to confer. I'll intend any compelling ones and only resolve the highest resolvable. -- nix Ministor, Herald, Webmastor
