[amsat-bb] Re: New ICOM VHF / UHF / SHF Radio
By the looks of the front panel I think it'll offer the same features for satellites as the IC-910H. We should know a lot more after the weekend show in Japan. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: John Geiger aa...@yahoo.com Will it do full duplex for the satellites, or dual receive? ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New ICOM VHF / UHF / SHF Radio
Not sure if this will be having the functions of 910H. 73's Nitin [VU3TYG] - Original Message From: Simon HB9DRV si...@hb9drv.ch To: amsat-bb@amsat.org amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New ICOM VHF / UHF / SHF Radio Date: 08/20/09 11:59 AM By the looks of the front panel I think it'll offer the same features for satellites as the IC-910H. We should know a lot more after the weekend show in Japan. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com - Original Message - From: quot;John Geigerquot; lt;aa...@yahoo.comgt; gt; gt; Will it do full duplex for the satellites, or dual receive? gt; ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Timand others I would just like to know what Suitsat2 has cost so far and what it is likely to cost to get it to orbit including integration cost. In my viewpoint the project is typical of what AMSAT NA has been doing lately, which is a lot of ground development work on making projects advanced all the while we rely on a satellite AO7 which we apparently cannot build a replacement for. I notice that none of the board members who are on this forum are jumping up to say what Suitsat2 is and will cost. Robert WB5MZO Amsat life member _ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Well, most of the BOD knows a roll in the mud when they see it. I sometimes lack that ability. No one has asked directly either, I'm busy enough that I don't read the -bb everyday. I'm working on getting an exact number, but it is at least an order of magnitude less than it would cost to build another AO-7 or even another AO-51 (which gets 10x the use of AO-7). 73, Drew KO4MA - Original Message - From: Rocky Jones orbit...@hotmail.com To: n...@bellsouth.net; ka1...@yahoo.com; Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:28 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS Timand others I would just like to know what Suitsat2 has cost so far and what it is likely to cost to get it to orbit including integration cost. In my viewpoint the project is typical of what AMSAT NA has been doing lately, which is a lot of ground development work on making projects advanced all the while we rely on a satellite AO7 which we apparently cannot build a replacement for. I notice that none of the board members who are on this forum are jumping up to say what Suitsat2 is and will cost. Robert WB5MZO Amsat life member _ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rocky Jones wrote: In my viewpoint the project is typical of what AMSAT NA has been doing lately, which is a lot of ground development work on making projects advanced all the while we rely on a satellite AO7 which we apparently cannot build a replacement for. I would wager that if SuitlessSat2 goes up (and I pray that it does) it will have much more use then AO-7 in the same time period. SuitSat was a major PR success for AMSAT and ARISS. More then a few hacker/maker podcasts/radio shows I listened to plugged the project and amateur radio which you don't see that much. I would say that if SSTV was put into the ISS, it would not receive the same coverage. The perfect is the enemy of the good. While it would be great if we had a ride for an HEO sat, an ability to get a higher-orbit LEO sat, and, while we're at it, everyone a pony and a puppy, it isn't going to happen. Lets focus on what we can do rather then bog ourselves down in something that we might be able to do if we are lucky. - -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj at innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJKjsT+AAoJEAQiWVsfSvVvMmAH/2ahSeIXsk9ISvzvLWoumFpB waVRl8/EEPZbUNjeo655xAIcMpuhDAkdZg+FOOEKzu7AWotUEuvcgdbDMmjAp2+r O63bhn4cmHDkka74bPNcQJYei+ZYYwP1fVDodzXgl2hoJG9EYWnkOce+jAeEuUEe e5z2vmehe8VYeaWhnywMbtKJZaj2IyWO0zvZWNhDxtuj1ve59i8M7yJzGgzbBIOV JTPDZP/x8A7qxQ23U3XU0TeJzY7K5+teXGMqvZfiawkqQq29/blLPfcrt4uVCaDj HE7V+N72bvxDl8XcZyBtAlEqRSF2debXEWIWK+4XoS83FmI5AA0ACE8wzJlAulc= =vjqP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Ben, well said! I think you'll find the same sentiments spreading across many of the BOD and officers over the last year or so. I expect the Symposium this year is where much will be explained. Launch costs are about 80 to 90% of a project, and in the case of the Suitsat2, practically 0%. We'd be foolish not to take that and run. 73, Drew KO4MA - Original Message - From: Ben Jackson b...@innismir.net To: Rocky Jones orbit...@hotmail.com Cc: Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org; n...@bellsouth.net Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rocky Jones wrote: In my viewpoint the project is typical of what AMSAT NA has been doing lately, which is a lot of ground development work on making projects advanced all the while we rely on a satellite AO7 which we apparently cannot build a replacement for. I would wager that if SuitlessSat2 goes up (and I pray that it does) it will have much more use then AO-7 in the same time period. SuitSat was a major PR success for AMSAT and ARISS. More then a few hacker/maker podcasts/radio shows I listened to plugged the project and amateur radio which you don't see that much. I would say that if SSTV was put into the ISS, it would not receive the same coverage. The perfect is the enemy of the good. While it would be great if we had a ride for an HEO sat, an ability to get a higher-orbit LEO sat, and, while we're at it, everyone a pony and a puppy, it isn't going to happen. Lets focus on what we can do rather then bog ourselves down in something that we might be able to do if we are lucky. - -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj at innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJKjsT+AAoJEAQiWVsfSvVvMmAH/2ahSeIXsk9ISvzvLWoumFpB waVRl8/EEPZbUNjeo655xAIcMpuhDAkdZg+FOOEKzu7AWotUEuvcgdbDMmjAp2+r O63bhn4cmHDkka74bPNcQJYei+ZYYwP1fVDodzXgl2hoJG9EYWnkOce+jAeEuUEe e5z2vmehe8VYeaWhnywMbtKJZaj2IyWO0zvZWNhDxtuj1ve59i8M7yJzGgzbBIOV JTPDZP/x8A7qxQ23U3XU0TeJzY7K5+teXGMqvZfiawkqQq29/blLPfcrt4uVCaDj HE7V+N72bvxDl8XcZyBtAlEqRSF2debXEWIWK+4XoS83FmI5AA0ACE8wzJlAulc= =vjqP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Amen ... to you and to Ben. Thanks to you both, Tim - N3TL From: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbren...@mindspring.com To: Ben Jackson b...@innismir.net; Rocky Jones orbit...@hotmail.com Cc: Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org; n...@bellsouth.net Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:09:12 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS Ben, well said! I think you'll find the same sentiments spreading across many of the BOD and officers over the last year or so. I expect the Symposium this year is where much will be explained. Launch costs are about 80 to 90% of a project, and in the case of the Suitsat2, practically 0%. We'd be foolish not to take that and run. 73, Drew KO4MA - Original Message - From: Ben Jackson b...@innismir.net To: Rocky Jones orbit...@hotmail.com Cc: Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org; n...@bellsouth.net Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:02 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Rocky Jones wrote: In my viewpoint the project is typical of what AMSAT NA has been doing lately, which is a lot of ground development work on making projects advanced all the while we rely on a satellite AO7 which we apparently cannot build a replacement for. I would wager that if SuitlessSat2 goes up (and I pray that it does) it will have much more use then AO-7 in the same time period. SuitSat was a major PR success for AMSAT and ARISS. More then a few hacker/maker podcasts/radio shows I listened to plugged the project and amateur radio which you don't see that much. I would say that if SSTV was put into the ISS, it would not receive the same coverage. The perfect is the enemy of the good. While it would be great if we had a ride for an HEO sat, an ability to get a higher-orbit LEO sat, and, while we're at it, everyone a pony and a puppy, it isn't going to happen. Lets focus on what we can do rather then bog ourselves down in something that we might be able to do if we are lucky. - -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj at innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJKjsT+AAoJEAQiWVsfSvVvMmAH/2ahSeIXsk9ISvzvLWoumFpB waVRl8/EEPZbUNjeo655xAIcMpuhDAkdZg+FOOEKzu7AWotUEuvcgdbDMmjAp2+r O63bhn4cmHDkka74bPNcQJYei+ZYYwP1fVDodzXgl2hoJG9EYWnkOce+jAeEuUEe e5z2vmehe8VYeaWhnywMbtKJZaj2IyWO0zvZWNhDxtuj1ve59i8M7yJzGgzbBIOV JTPDZP/x8A7qxQ23U3XU0TeJzY7K5+teXGMqvZfiawkqQq29/blLPfcrt4uVCaDj HE7V+N72bvxDl8XcZyBtAlEqRSF2debXEWIWK+4XoS83FmI5AA0ACE8wzJlAulc= =vjqP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Ben I would wager that if SuitlessSat2 goes up (and I pray that it does) it will have much more use then AO-7 in the same time period. that assumes it works. The track record is less SuitSat was a major PR success for AMSAT and ARISS. More then a few hacker/maker podcasts/radio shows I listened to plugged the project and amateur radio which you don't see that much. I would say that if SSTV was put into the ISS, it would not receive the same coverage. Suitsat 1 got the internet buzz because of its uniqueness. I doubt that a non suitsat ie a satellite launched much like the Russians did their redo of Sputnik would get the same internet buzz... But back to PR success...what does that mean exactly? Did it translate into a bump in amateur license applications (I dont know maybe it did) did it change anything really? Or did it just get a lot of buzz and then nothing? PR in spaceflight is a funny thing. Space advocates all around the world are stymied that things happen in human spaceflight and well there is not a lot of PR...they all think it should be just like Apollo where the entire world came to a halt as various events happened. Many (and I mean many) years ago when I was playing High School football we were on our way ultimately to state (and in Texas that is not a minor thing) but on the way we were getting beat by the cellar team of our city (Dallas) division. The coach made a player substitute and the guy who came in brought a clipping that the coach had given him from the DAllas morning news a few days earlier which was a nice spread about the team. Coach says give this story to the guys who are whipping your (three letter word) I am not sure that the PR in ham radio has all that much value compared to functioning satellites Robert WB5MZO _ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Launch costs are about 80 to 90% of a project, and in the case of the Suitsat2, practically 0%. We'd be foolish not to take that and run. 73, Drew KO4MA Drew. I am sure that the launch cost from NASA are zero. I bet that the integration cost are not. Is it an unreasonable question to ask what the cost of the project are? Robert WB5MZO _ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Rocky, Your question regarding SuitSat costs are not unreasonable and I trust your question will be answered shortly. When you have the cost information what then? The likely next argument is whether the investment is a good one or a bad one. The PR argument is an abstract - hard to quantify the results - good or bad. So lets consider this 1) It doesn't cost us to launch a SuitSat (or whatever it will now be called) and I strongly favor participating in ANY free launch. The costs are material (and much has been donated by Microchip and the Russians), travel, meetings, preparation for launch, etc. Of course - the all volunteer labor is FREE. 2) The SuitSat type of free launch will be ongoing with several more similar orbit opportunities in the future (i.e. - launch from the ISS), and that's a real and good thing. 3) The new SuitSat is one sassy little satellite with some really neat features. I believe a satellite with its features in orbit for 6 plus months is much better than not having a satellite of its design in orbit. 4) We will have learned a lot getting it designed, built and launched and this will all support AMSAT's modularization concept initiated in Atlanta 2008, which in turn supports our next non-SuitSat opportunity. So from my perspective - not a bad investment! Regards...Bill - N6GHz Rocky Jones wrote: Launch costs are about 80 to 90% of a project, and in the case of the Suitsat2, practically 0%. We'd be foolish not to take that and run. 73, Drew KO4MA Drew. I am sure that the launch cost from NASA are zero. I bet that the integration cost are not. Is it an unreasonable question to ask what the cost of the project are? Robert WB5MZO _ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Bill. The question is cost vrs value. First off there is almost nothing free on the spacestation. The launch might be, but the devil is in the integration details and cost. I dont know what those were for Suitsat1 nor do I know what they are for Suitsat 2 (or sat without the suit)...but the instant the astronauts get involved in any substantive manner the cost go up very very quickly. Then the next question is is it worth whatever the cost are? That is a value judgment and in my view has to be weighed with a lot of factors particularly when funds are limited. Was Oscar 40 worth it? A lot was bet on that satellite, had it worked (or if it was still working) then the value might have approached the cost...as it was well it is hard to argue that the cost put into it was worth what was gotten out of it. Suitsat 1 was a simple satellite that didnt work, the answer is to try a more complicated one? I am quite certain that the individual cost of Suitsat 1 and Suitsat 2 are less then the cost of doing another AO-7 but things add up and the cost of two or three or four of these projects might eventually add up to an AO-7 or helping 3E get off the ground. The Russians have a saying If you (Urinate...they use a different word) into your boot then for a bit you are warmer, and then you are colder and wonder why you did it (OK I cleaned it up). Put another way? Are you happy with the current state of the satellite constellation? Robert WB5MZO _ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Semi-remoting the controller for a Yaesu G5400
My Yaesu G-5400 rotor pair is about 150' from my shack. I am wanting to gauge the feasibility of putting the rotor controller within 100' (due to on-hand control cable lengths) of the antennas (in a garage). I would then run a separate (on-hand) PC-controller cable (fewer conductors as using the DIN interface on the back of the controller) to the rotor controller box from a PC and adapter / interface (if needed) in my shack (approx. 50'). Is it crazy to consider or should I just pony up for more of the (dual) rotor control cable and run the control box itself in my shack? What would I need to do at the PC end to appropriately 'signal' the 'semi-remote' control box. Ideas? Thanks, Lowell K9LDW ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Rocky Jones wrote: Bill. The question is cost vrs value. Well, again that will have to be determined by each person using his or her values. As I stated in my post, I can see the value and gave you my reasons. Naturally, you open to disagree. First off there is almost nothing free on the spacestation. The launch might be, but the devil is in the integration details and cost. I dont know what those were for Suitsat1 nor do I know what they are for Suitsat 2 (or sat without the suit)...but the instant the astronauts get involved in any substantive manner the cost go up very very quickly. But these are not costs to AMSAT (which is what I thought you were asking) The astronauts are a cost to the US tax payers. Then the next question is is it worth whatever the cost are? That is a value judgment and in my view has to be weighed with a lot of factors particularly when funds are limited. Agreed, and each one of us AMSAT members has to determine that. Clearly, AMSAT leadership has determined the value proposition is there. If you disagree, do more than write the -bb. Become involved with AMSAT in a host of ways that have been solicited in the Journal and work to make the changes you would like. Oh by the way, the pay is next to nothing. Wait a minute - it is nothing! Was Oscar 40 worth it? A lot was bet on that satellite, had it worked (or if it was still working) then the value might have approached the cost...as it was well it is hard to argue that the cost put into it was worth what was gotten out of it. Suitsat 1 was a simple satellite that didnt work, the answer is to try a more complicated one? Hey, a lot of commercial satellites weren't successes. A lot of vehicle launches weren't successes. Does that mean we quit if we can't be guaranteed or your money back? I am quite certain that the individual cost of Suitsat 1 and Suitsat 2 are less then the cost of doing another AO-7 but things add up and the cost of two or three or four of these projects might eventually add up to an AO-7 or helping 3E get off the ground. Nope! That won't add up to a AO-7 or 3E with its $10 million plus launch cost. Let's say a AO-51 satellite costs $500,000 to built and launch. That's twenty AO-51 satellites before to get to a GTO launch. Hey, I'll change my tune about other launches, if any one or a bunch of you P3E proponents (me included) can pony up the 10 million. The Russians have a saying If you (Urinate...they use a different word) into your boot then for a bit you are warmer, and then you are colder and wonder why you did it (OK I cleaned it up). Put another way? Are you happy with the current state of the satellite constellation? I'm never satisfied, that's why I volunteer to built more technically challenging AMSAT satellites, but I've learn to deal with the harsh realities we're dealt with, and make the best of it. Regards...Bill - N6GHz Robert WB5MZO Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook. Find out more. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Semi-remoting the controller for a Yaesu G5400
Hi Lowell, I think you need only 3 wires for one rotor, and 2 wires for the other (because you'd use the common hot from the first rotor). However, you wouldn't know meter reading for end of travel of the motor, and could damage the rotor. If you are using the remote tracker interface (such as LVB that has front panel control as well as PC control), you could maybe run long cable from the tracker interface (in your shack) to the controller (in your garage), and you would have both control and digital readout of the position, and the LVB would know end of travel of each motor. Other ideas? Regards, Bennett ko2ok ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Bill...this is a great conversation and I can pick it up later but right now I need to head up to the ACDO (air carrier district office) and see what the latest plan is for the next airplane I am learning to fly. I am just getting back into that loop. But these are not costs to AMSAT (which is what I thought you were asking) The astronauts are a cost to the US tax payers. I would note this. I dont think that astronaut time is free to anyone ie that all the cost are borne by the US taxpayer. My experience (although dated) is that the cost are far from free, that they are to some extent (and a large one) reimbursable to NASA by various organizations. AND someone has to pay the documentation/integration cost of the payload. That can be pretty steep. In the case of Wake Shield it was more then the payload itself cost. The suitsat witout a suit is going to ride up on a Progress and the Russians are far more reasonable then NASA...but I'll bet money that there are some NASA cost involved to AMSAT in documentation/integration.. As for AO-40. This was in my view clearly a case of organizational creep where eventually the project became to large for the organizational capabilities...it is clear from the failures on the ground which initiated the failures in flight that the organization was far less competent then the task at hand. I guess I have not heard what was the ultimate fail point in Suitsat but unless it was equipment malfunction it is likely that it was more of the same. IE trying to do more project then the capabilities of the organization. anyway..talk to you later Robert WB5MZO _ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Almost this entire treatise is based on ignorance of the facts in my estimation so far as AMSAT the satellite building organization goes. Much more informed people than I can comment on the ARISS projects. I just enjoy what has been accomplished kin ARISS technically, educationally, etc. Suitsat 2, even in its Suitless Sat version is not really designed for more than toss out the door kind of lifetime. You can take my word for it or not, I don't care if you do or not. I just claim it is so. Given that you take my word for it, I suggest that it is the PERFECT use of the technology that is in the current design. It will accomplish several things (besides getting me to put my antennas back on the roof). We will have shown we can integrate a simple satellite and renew our standing with NASA as a satellite building entity. We are not going to get a suit in a timely fashion (they tossed them overboard before we even knew it was happening almost). We are building an almost completely new cadre of people who are working on this with some help (but not a lot) from the OF's (I am including myself in the OF category). We needed the kick in the pants by the team putting this together. We cannot buy a launch for love nor money and we either sit around and watch our organization dwindle, accomplish nothing, or we do SOMETHING with our time and talents. This thing cost a tiny amount of money, not a lot more than flying a few people around. This has provided a spark that was needed. That is more than enough to justify it in my opinion. I congratulate all involved for moving this forward and finding a way to turn lemons into lemonade. I am not the only person bemoaning the lack of ability to get a launch. All involved are there. I have said here before we have a built P3 spacecraft with no ride. We do something with what we are given, or we shrivel up and give up. Thank you for allowing me my $0.02 73's Bob N4HY MM wrote: Don’t Fly Suit-Sat to the International Space Station The International Space Station will be retired in 20015-2016. We do not have much time left, before NASA pulls the plug! We need your help to convince NASA, ESA and RSA to send more Long term educational projects to ISS and to not send short term disposable Toss-Satellites projects such as the Suit-Sat-2 to ISS. -- (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. You don't need to see the whole staircase, just take the first step., MLK. Twitter:rwmcgwier Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS
Bob Suitsat 2, even in its Suitless Sat version is not really designed for more than toss out the door kind of lifetime. You can take my word for it or not, I don't care if you do or not. I just claim it is so. It shouldnt be designed for much more then that...without propulsion the orbit will decay like a bag of tools (grin). The (whatever it is costing question) is however will it make it a few weeks? We are not going to get a suit in a timely fashion (they tossed them overboard before we even knew it was happening almost). The first part I agree with...no suit. The part in ()! Really? The flight surgeon told the better half at her flight physical the other day that she was pregnant...almost...not really. Pregnant is la binary solution set and we had a pretty good idea about it since the coming home stopover in Greece.. So the flight surgeon was quite definitive. Your words almost sound like a song we sing in Church Almost Persuaded. .knowing is the same way as being pregnant, one either does or doesnt... ...are you saying that the fact that the suits were going to be tossed in the Progress over July wasnt known to Amsat NA or the suitsat people in a timely fashion? What strikes me as more likely is that the project grew until it couldnt meet its deadlines...just guessing here. . This thing cost a tiny amount of money, not a lot more than flying a few people around. as I said I am curious what the final number is...the effort will be a plus if it works... Suitsat the original would have been good had it worked. Strikes me that having failed at something as simple as Suiitsat it might have been a good effort to succeed at something as simple as Suitsat before moving on ... anyway I am sure AMSAT NA is going forward with this, although in the literature one can now start to detect a note of caution...I read a lot of its been worth it even if it doesnt fly sort of stuff. One just wonders why the Chinese and Indians can redo Oscar 7 and . you are one of the bright lights in the business Robert WB6MZO _ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCBpubl=WLHMTAGcrea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Suitsat-2 costs
According to Martha, in 2009 we have spent a grand total of $12,361 on Suitsat-2. The 2008 files are not right at hand, but the expense was even less. In comparison we've spent more on ITAR legal help trying to free our volunteers to resume work on P3E. The launch cost for Suitsat-2 will be zero for AMSAT. Nothing paid by AMSAT to Russia, nothing paid by AMSAT to NASA. Nothing. Launch cost for cubesats to LEO (600-800 km) is ~$70,000/kg. Suitsat-2 is over 20kg. I'll let each individual decide whether they think that's a deal or not. It's painfully obvious to me. 73, Drew KO4MA ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] FT897
What do you all think of using a Yaesu FT-897 for satellite work? Randy - N2CUA ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] AO-51 V/S
Great pass at 22:43, thanks to John (K8YSE) and Al (W8KHP) for the contacts - its been a while since I worked mode V/S. Thanks to the team for scheduling these modes. 73 David -- David KG4ZLB www.kg4zlb.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: FT897
Hey Randy, I use an FT-857 here, which is - for the most part - the same radio without the provision of an internal battery pack. It is not full-duplex-capable, so you'll need a separate receive radio. here, I use an FT-817ND. In terms of computer control, the programs I've tried (Ham Radio Deluxe and its satellite tracker module, SatPC 32 and Orbitron with the WISP DDE plugin) treat the 817 and the 857 the same. I suspect that the CAT design is identical for the 817/857/897, or close enough that software sees the same thing with each radio. I like the 857 a lot, and there were 4-5 897s at the combined Field Day effort I provided the satellite station for this year. Those radios' owners had nothing but good things to say about them, but none of them had tried satellite work. As I said, it's not full-fuplex-capable, so a separate receive radio will be necessary for full-duplex operation. I hope that helps. 73, Tim - N3TL From: Randy rswa...@twcny.rr.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 7:02:46 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] FT897 What do you all think of using a Yaesu FT-897 for satellite work? Randy - N2CUA ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS, MM
Hi Tim: Thank you for your comments. I am always open to new ideas and I welcome your questions and observations. I plan on posting some suggestions on how to use the Existing Hardware on ISS to try to please as many hams and SWL as possible. We can’t make everyone happy. I feel there has been a loss of interest in ISS amateur Radio. Our ham projects over the past 10 years have not grabbed very much public or ham interest (with the exception of School Schedules). To restore interest in ISS we need to have more than 1 project running at a time. We also need projects that are exciting to a larger audience. If we continue to use our valuable launches to ISS for Short-term projects, then ISS will say a dull boring and wasted platform for amateur radio experimentation. The project that will generate the most positive press and public enthusiasm is SSTV. Of course I am going to push this project, not just because it’s a Marex project, but because of the great news stores we received during the Mir version of SSTV. SSTV will generate good Press and TV new clips. SSTV will generate interests from the SWL (and they out number ham by at least 10 to1) Mode Change to SSTV: I do not believe that switching from packet to SSTV would reduce the number of random public voice contacts. On the contrary, from my experience with previous Mir and ISS crews running SSTV, the number random public voice contacts increased. Commander Pavel Vinogradov in July August 2006 would be on Voice, asking “Did you seem my SSTV pictures”? During Richard Garriott’s Mission in October 2008, he used both Voce and SSTV. He was often interested in knowing how well people liked his images. He would have sent more images, however he had technical difficulties with the Vox box causing the TM-D700 too repeatedly get stuck transmitting. He also said there was a shortage of AA batteries for the Kenwood Communicator VCH1. In my experience with multiple SSTV crews, SSTV will increased your opportunity to talk to the crews on Voice. Ideally I would like to see SpaceCam1 SSTV activated for 3-4 consecutive months in a row. I do not want to see SSTV turned on for 1-2 days per month. We need a consecutive run to build up momentum. This would mean turning off Packet for a few months. The reason for this mode change experiment would be the following: Build up a world wide following of SSTV users (both Amateur Radio and SWL) Get more Schools involved to act as geography receiving stations. Point future and existing User’s to an ARISS/AMSAT web page to learn how to SSTV, etc. Tell the News and Magazine about the project. We had great press coverage with Mir SSTV. ISS Crew Time: MM The Station is currently manned with 3 people. That number will be increasing in 2009 to a crew of 5-6 (in theory). At the present time the ISS crew has no free time.. It will be hard to add more Public Voice Access to ISS with a 3 man crew.. We hope Public Voice activities will improve when the crew expands to 5-6 crewmembers. My plan is to run SSTV and voice on the same world wide channel pair. (Let’s not get into frequency politics at this time.) In August 1996 when we made ARISS, I asked Guest speaker Astronaut Linda Godwin, what she wanted for ham projects. She said “She wanted to see the faces of the people she was talking with “. Based on Linda’s suggestion, with help of Farrell Winder, W8ZCF and Dr. Don Miller, W9NTP, we delivered SSTV to Mir in 15 months. The Mir crew loved the system and were frequently seen floating in front of the Camera sending picture to Earth. Here is how I envision SSTV operations on ISS. The crew has SpaceCam1 running in automatic slide show mode. The volume on the TM-D700 is turned OFF. The crew has a break and goes over to the radio, turns up the volume and calls CQ and starts chatting. If the person he is talking to has SSTV, then they can exchange two way images. All images set to ISS can be automatically stored to disk. If the user has a SSTV program that supports “SID”, then his call sign becomes part of the file name automatically. SpaceCam1 SSTV is a win win project for everyone. Packet on ISS: I am a big fan of Packet. I have been a strong supporter for packet on ISS since we first began planning ISS in August 1996. The existing TM-700 is a very good voice radio. The TM-D700 is a weak packet engine. The packet engine in the TM-D700 is limited in its abilities. The TM-D700 can perform the basic packet duties, but it’s just not as good as a dedicated packet engine such as the KPC product lines. The TM-D700 does have a few operating system packet bugs that we can not fix (Forces every packet mail line to be acknowledged, etc). To make matters worse, the TM-D700 User editable settings were setup wrong in 2003, which rendered Packet Mail unusable and slowed down the unproto link (APRS). Bob Bruninga did rewrite User editable settings for the TM-D700
[amsat-bb] Re: Don't Fly SuitSat2 to ISS (rebuttal)
Bob has been cogent in his examiniation of several of the original points. I would like to chime in regarding the educational value of the SuitSat program, which has been denegrated by its opponents. I offered three classes in a local Middle School after SS-1 was launched. The details were posted in this letter: http://128.54.16.15/amsat/archive/amsat-bb/200602/msg00877.html As I noted then, it was a great success: the idea of communicating with an object pushed out of humanity's current only outpost in space was not lost to the students. I can honestly say that they found it considerably more engaging than other classes I have given on satellites in general. This experience led me to anticipate that SS-2, in whatever configuration, will equally be an excellent basis for classroom experiences, especially since these might well include actual communication through the satellite. None of the criticisms expressed have altered my expectations. Indeed, if there are those who believe that, for instance, the short orbital life of SS-2 will impede its use in the classroom, we should have a longer discussion here of curricula and the teaching opportunities afforded by SS-2. In short, I see no need to alter the mission, but a great need to improve how we capitalize on missions like this to fulfill the educational (among others) mandate of our hobby. Happily there are many, like Bob, and like the FunSat team, who are dedicating their talents to such an effort. 73, Bruce VE9QRP On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Bob Bruningabruni...@usna.edu wrote: Don’t Fly Suit-Sat to the International Space Station Nothing in amateur radio has ever been accomplished by the naysayers and armchair lawyers and wannabee's and dreamers that spend their time trying to tear down and stop what others are trying to accomplish. Amateur radio and ANY volunteer organization simply doesn't work that way. The only thing that accomplishes anything are individuals that are individually motivated and work on things to their own motivation and make forward progress. No amount of criciicm, or alternates, or complaining every accomplishes anything forward. The only effective thing it accomplishes often is the dooers just give up in frustration at all the ankle biters, and move on to other things. Paul Rinaldo, W4RI in leading the AMRAD group in the development of AX.25 in the USA said it simply... Either help with those that are making progress, or GET OUT OF THE WAY! He viewed his job as president to make sure all the bright minds and able-bodied workers had everything they needed to make progress and also he worked to fight off the naysayers, and kibitzers and keep them from discouraging and holding things back or trying to redirect the effort to naught. When all the work is being done by VOLUNTEERS who are self motivated, there is usually no amount of kibitzing or re-directing or complaining that will make ANY FORWARD progress. The only possible outcome is that those DOERS just quit out of frustration. I say again, either build it yourself, or give support to those that do, or just shut up and get out of the way. No volunteer is motivated by all the whining and why dont you do it my way kind of kibitzing. If you want it done another way, then start from scratch and do it yourself your way, and we wish you every success. ANY ACCOMPLISHMENT in Amateur Radio (an all volunter service) should be praised. Any ideas on how to do it differently should only serve as a self motivator to get out and do it that way yourself. Then others should praise you for your accomplishment. But NEVER do it at the EXPENSE OF OTHERS! I have never seen such a distracting, self-serving and destructive proposal as this... We need your help to convince NASA, ESA and RSA to send more Long term educational projects to ISS and to not send short term disposable Toss- Satellites projects such as the Suit-Sat-2 to ISS. Now let me see. It shouldnt be hard at all to convince any bureaucrat who is working 12 hour days and has all the stress of the space business to NOT fly something! He will be more than happy to NOT fly something, just so he has one less thing to worry about. But it is about 100 times harder to convince that same bureaucrat to then re-direct hi energies to some new wannabee idea... What was accomplished? Simply nonthing, but the waste of a large number of AMSAT Volunteers efforts over the last year to feed the ego of a few... In this document I will go over several reasons why Suit-Sat-2 is the wrong project for the ISS... Nothing that is making progress is the wrong project, just because it might, be, or shoulda, or coulda been done diffrently with 20/20 hindsight. This is an open letter to representatives of the organizations and technical communities, including: NASA, European Space Agency, Russian Space Agency, AMSAT, ARISS, ARRL, Amateur
