[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Luc Leblanc
On 16 Jun 2010 at 22:27, Anthony Monteiro wrote:

Date sent:  Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:27:29 -0400
From:   Anthony Monteiro aa...@comcast.net
Subject:[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates
To: Dave Guimont dguim...@san.rr.com,
Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL vlfis...@mcn.net
Copies to:  amsat-bb@amsat.org

 At 07:40 PM 6/16/2010, Dave Guimont wrote:
 I hope we are getting great financial support from the fm'ers.  I
 assume the reason for fm is the assumed cost of ssw/cw rigs in
 
 Dear Dave and Vince and the group,
 
 You guys have to know that I would love to put up a linear HEO and
 resurrect the +20 net!
 
 The reality is that AMSAT just cannot afford to pay for a HEO launch.
 I do think we need to work as hard as we can to find another way to get
 there but we haven't found a way just yet.
 
 The ARISSat-1 satellite, which many of us are hard at work on right now,
 will have a linear transponder but of course it is a LEO.
 
 The AMSAT-Fox project is FM because we need a replacement for AO-51
 before it dies (perhaps THE most popular satellite at present) and it is hard
 to generate enough power from a 1U CubeSat to have a really good linear
 transponder.
 
 Hang in there. The world has changed and it is much more difficult than it 
 used
 to be but we are trying really hard to get there.
 
 73,
 Tony AA2TX
 AMSAT VP Engineering
 


Just have a look at PE1RAH William Leijenaar web page http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/

and look at his nano sat transponder satellite

http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/mysat2.htm

Technology is there but is the AMSAT-NA mentality will change? I wrote in the 
past at numerous time that it's will be through an 
international effort amateur radio satellite launch will succeed. It's already 
done! Look at all the cubes sat launch in the past 5 years 
nothing came from an AMSAT-NA project.. here is the international effort i 
refer too.

Yes AMSAT-NA is having projects but AMSAT-INDIA gets help from  William PE1RAH 
for his VO-52 transponder. Just for the record AMSAT-DL is 
still working on an HEO P3E. There will be no salute if AMSAT-NA persist to 
fold on themselves trying to make his own 50 states affair as 
if they are too ashamed  to work and i mean really work on an international 
cooperation base.

We are in 2010 and i don't know if  the AMSAT-NA BOD is aware that we are in a 
globalized world? Your telephone call center is in India and 
your cars are manufactured in Mexixo. Having the very same people always 
playing the musical chair in the AMSAT-NA BOD will only lead to 
the same old paradigm who is by definition :a philosophical and theoretical 
framework of a scientific school or discipline within which 
theories, laws, and generalizations and the experiments performed in support of 
them are formulated; broadly a philosophical or theoretical 
framework of any kind. Is it not a characterization of the past 7 years of 
AMSAT-NA actions? I think yes and it's lead to nothing.

Will this FOX project succeed as the many past one we can only hope but IMHO we 
are still in the same bad tracks even if the folks involved 
are the most dedicated ones. ARISSAT-1 is probably the best tangible assets 
actually but how can we really think AMSAT-NA is only promoting 
his new projects on paper when peoples are actually reading stuff on their I 
Pod and I Pad? Is this will help them attracting new blood in 
the amateur radio satellite field?

If the new AMSAT-NA BOD candidates are asking for inputs it's probably because 
they cannot provided any new ideas only refurbishing ideas 
from the past over and over again.

For those who are not accepting criticism even the constructive ones just have 
the BOD implementing ways and means to work on an 
international satellite project will be a step in the right direction. 

It's my opinion and i know you shared it...


-


Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
Skype VE2DWE
www.qsl.net/ve2dwe
DSTAR urcall VE2DWE
WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE

 
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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL
At 10:27 PM 6/16/2010 -0400, Anthony Monteiro aa...@comcast.net wrote:
At 07:40 PM 6/16/2010, Dave Guimont wrote:
I hope we are getting great financial support from the fm'ers.  I
assume the reason for fm is the assumed cost of ssw/cw rigs in

Dear Dave and Vince and the group,

You guys have to know that I would love to put up a linear HEO and
resurrect the +20 net!


Pull my finger.

KB7ADL

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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL
At 05:11 PM 6/16/2010 -0400, g0...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 16/06/2010 22:09:24 GMT Daylight Time, vlfis...@mcn.net 
writes:
Why does everything always have to be FM all the time.
KB7ADL


But doesn't Arissat-1 include a linear transponder ??

David


Arissat will be fun, but objects launched from the ISS don't stay in orbit 
all that long. The linear transponder is going to have to compete for time 
with all the other downlink  modes  experiments the bird can do.  I'm 
thinking the linear transponder probably won't be turned on much, because 
it might upset the FM'ers.

KB7ADL

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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Rocky Jones



 
 Just have a look at PE1RAH William Leijenaar web page 
 http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/
 
 and look at his nano sat transponder satellite
 
 http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/mysat2.htm
 

 
 Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
 Skype VE2DWE
 www.qsl.net/ve2dwe
 DSTAR urcall VE2DWE
 WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
 
  

It is a clever device.  I've never been clear as to why AMSAT NA is not using 
it.  Works great on the Indian satellite..

Robert G. Oler  WB5MZO Life member AMSAT ARRL
  
_
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL
At 07:59 PM 6/16/2010 -0500, Gregg Wonderly gregg...@gmail.com wrote:
The important thing to remember is that radio communications must be hard 
to do, require extra effort, if not repeated failure as well as 
persecution by those who have succeeded one time before, and it is most 
vital that anyone with existing equipment should never be required to 
change gear.   But those with incompatible gear must buy old stuff to meet 
the approval of those who have spent the past 50 years talking to the same 
people using the same mode and antennas to prove, repeatedly that they can 
say 73 and Roger while holding their mic, tuning their transceiver and 
switching antenna polarization all while eating a donut.


ROFL,

Hey you, I resemble that!   Don't MAKE me use caps-lock!

Pass the donuts.  ;-)

KB7ADL


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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Bill Ress
Hi Rocky,

The ARISSat-1 uses a linear transponder that is significantly more 
efficient.

The COMM RX, CMD RX and the half watt output linear COMM TX only draws 
420 mA at 8 VDC. The entire design can also be configured to run 
directly from 3.6 Vdc, which is conveniently the voltage of a Lithium 
Ion cell. In the absence of the battery cell (if troubles arise with the 
battery), it could also run directly from a pair of series connected 
solar cells (but not at the 0.5 watt output level), which typically run 
about 4.6 V. Additionally, the design can also fit into the CubeSat 
physical configuration.

So William's design isn't there yet - at least the last I heard.

So you ask, why don't we use it in FOX?

Well 420 mA is still too to close to the current output capability for 
the typical CubeSat solar cell setup. Remember, you also need current to 
run the IHU, the MPPT etc. But we're always working on improving the 
efficient in the linear mode - so who knows.

The AMSAT-UK FUNCube folks will be designing a linear U/V transponder 
for their CubeSat, so we'll be watching their results closely.

Regards...Bill - N6GHz
ARISSat Team Member

Rocky Jones wrote:
 
 
 Just have a look at PE1RAH William Leijenaar web page 
 http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/

 and look at his nano sat transponder satellite

 http://www.qsl.net/pe1rah/mysat2.htm



 Luc Leblanc VE2DWE
 Skype VE2DWE
 www.qsl.net/ve2dwe
 DSTAR urcall VE2DWE
 WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE

  
 
 It is a clever device.  I've never been clear as to why AMSAT NA is not using 
 it.  Works great on the Indian satellite..
 
 Robert G. Oler  WB5MZO Life member AMSAT ARRL
 
 _
 Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
 inbox.
 http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2
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 Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
 Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
 
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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Stephen E. Belter
Vince,

When I saw the ARISSat-1 prototype operating at the Dayton Hamvention, the 
linear transponder, the CW beacon, and the FM telemetry/announcements/SSTV all 
operated *simultaneously*.  

Note that ARISSat-1 does not have an FM repeater mode.  The FM transmitter is 
used alternately for telemetry, voice announcements, and slow-scan TV pictures.

Gould's presentation on ARISSat-1 from the AMSAT Forum at Dayton is on the 
AMSAT website.  It includes slides with diagrams of the uplink and downlink 
frequency plan, and a waterfall display of the transmitter output.  The 
waterfall clearly shows the linear transponder, CW beacon, and the FM channel.

My expectation is that the linear transponder will be operational as long as 
either the battery or the solar cells are providing power.

73, Steve N9IP
-- 
Steve Belter (s...@wintek.com) My Desk: 765-269-8521

 -Original Message-
 From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
 Behalf Of Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL
 Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:07 PM
 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
 Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates
 
 At 05:11 PM 6/16/2010 -0400, g0...@aol.com wrote:
 In a message dated 16/06/2010 22:09:24 GMT Daylight Time,
 vlfis...@mcn.net
 writes:
 Why does everything always have to be FM all the time.
 KB7ADL
 
 
 But doesn't Arissat-1 include a linear transponder ??
 
 David
 
 
 Arissat will be fun, but objects launched from the ISS don't stay in orbit
 all that long. The linear transponder is going to have to compete for time
 with all the other downlink  modes  experiments the bird can do.  I'm
 thinking the linear transponder probably won't be turned on much, because
 it might upset the FM'ers.
 
 KB7ADL
 
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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-17 Thread Michael Tondee
I can't for the life of me understand the point in people using terms 
that tend  to divide AMSAT into different groups or warring factions. 
The last thing in the world this organization needs right now is to be 
divided about anything.
  I don't think the people you derisively refer to as  FM'ers would be 
at all upset if some type of linear transponder flew on any new bird. I 
think when you get right down to it, everybody wants the same thing 
which is a variety of sats with different mode capabilities that will 
interest and accommodate all sat operators. I think all of us want an 
HEO if at all possible. The thing is though some of us seem to be more 
in tune with the realities of the modern world and realize that the 
launches are not financially feasible. We don't live in some type of 
fantasy land where we think  launch opportunities grow on trees. We make 
due with what we have and try to enjoy ourselves instead of pining away 
for the good old days. We try to support the BOD in whatever endeavor 
or direction that they feel is best for the organization right now. Do 
you honestly think they are lying to you when they tell you that 
financially feasible HEO launches are not available at present? Or that 
it's not possible to include a linear transponder in a cubesat which 
appears to be the only viable option we have for launches right now? 
That must be it! It must be some kind of conspiracy that has been 
hatched  by those dastardly scourge of the earth FM'ers. :-)
  Right now I'm an FMer because that's all the capability I have right 
at present. I could have bought another TS-2000X like I used to have and 
be on the existing linear birds but I blew my wad on a Flex 5000 because 
frankly, I feel it is a far superior radio to anything else on the 
market. It will take me quite sometime to save the money for the 
upcoming V/U module that will give me linear transponder access again, 
maybe even a couple of years, but for now I'm  I  try to be happy with 
the capability I do have which is a portable FM sat setup.
  I don't think that myself or anyone else should be labeled and looked 
down upon for simply trying to enjoy ourselves on the birds in the best 
way we can.
73,
Michael, W4HIJ


On 6/17/2010 3:06 PM, Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL wrote:
 At 05:11 PM 6/16/2010 -0400, g0...@aol.com wrote:

 In a message dated 16/06/2010 22:09:24 GMT Daylight Time, vlfis...@mcn.net
 writes:
 Why does everything always have to be FM all the time.
 KB7ADL


 But doesn't Arissat-1 include a linear transponder ??

 David
  


 Arissat will be fun, but objects launched from the ISS don't stay in orbit
 all that long. The linear transponder is going to have to compete for time
 with all the other downlink  modes  experiments the bird can do.  I'm
 thinking the linear transponder probably won't be turned on much, because
 it might upset the FM'ers.

 KB7ADL




 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2942 - Release Date: 06/16/10 
 14:35:00



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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-16 Thread Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL
At 01:22 PM 6/16/2010 -0500, apbid...@mailaps.org wrote:
It is my pleasure to announce that the following have been nominated to
serve on the AMSAT Board of Directors for two year terms:

Tom Clark, K3IO
Lou McFadin, W5DID
Tony Monteiro, AA2TX
Gould Smith, WA4SXM


Which of these candidates would support adding a Mode A linear transponder 
to FOX, or any type of linear transponder for that matter.  FOX will 
already have a 2m receiver all you'd need to add is a 10m downlink 
transmitter.  Use a tape measure tape for the antennas.

Why does everything always have to be FM all the time.

KB7ADL

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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-16 Thread G0MRF
 
In a message dated 16/06/2010 22:09:24 GMT Daylight Time, vlfis...@mcn.net  
writes:


Why  does everything always have to be FM all the  time.

KB7ADL




But doesn't Arissat-1 include a linear transponder ??
 
David
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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-16 Thread Dave Guimont
At 02:58 PM 6/16/2010, you wrote:
At 01:22 PM 6/16/2010 -0500, apbid...@mailaps.org wrote:
 It is my pleasure to announce that the following have been nominated to
 serve on the AMSAT Board of Directors for two year terms:
 
 Tom Clark, K3IO
 Lou McFadin, W5DID
 Tony Monteiro, AA2TX
 Gould Smith, WA4SXM


Which of these candidates would support adding a Mode A linear transponder
to FOX, or any type of linear transponder for that matter.  FOX will
already have a 2m receiver all you'd need to add is a 10m downlink
transmitter.  Use a tape measure tape for the antennas.

Why does everything always have to be FM all the time.


Vince, I've been asking the same thing for years; as others have.

I hope we are getting great financial support from the fm'ers.  I 
assume the reason for fm is the assumed cost of ssw/cw rigs in 
comparison to fm.
I have no idea of member numbers, but assume that graph could be made 
available

I've never been a big donor, but I've stopped my pittances since the 
FM promotions




73, Dave, WB6LLO
dguim...@san.rr.com

Disagree: I learn

   Pulling for P3E... 

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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-16 Thread Dee
To All...
I just got off FO-29. It sure sounded very nice and it didn't have any
pileups. I made 2 contacts with no one else heard. 
AMSAT-NA has been doing its best to follow through on original Phase 3 type
birds, however, launches
For these type birds are not an every day opportunity being presented to us.
(yes, we[us] are all part of
AMSAT just by being interested in satellites)  Withholding donations at the
present time is not really in our interests.
We need funds to keep up the present offerings for satellite launches. This
is the time membership should rise and show 
support for our future efforts. ARRISsat-1 has a linear transponder and you
can
Listen to Gould's presentation from Dayton  find out more on the RF setup
on the website.  We just had a DARA matching funds 
campaign and I hope that Those that realize what funding can accomplish have
made that a success and I personally thank those that contributed.
We have the expertise to put together a great bird but limitations of actual
launches holds us back.  Our Engineering team
Has assured us that they are ready to be called on to supply us a phase 3
comparable satellite.  HEO is not a magic word, just one
That is still upfront and waiting for that timely spark.
If you look at the BOD candidates, when they present their thoughts and
objectives just go down the list and find those fitting
Your requirements for a BOD member.  This is certainly a member society and
exercise your selective powers when the time comes around.
If you read the ANS bulletins, members were advised on giving their inputs
to BOD nominees.  I see a list of volunteers that provide
Us with ideas we can all deal with.  So as I have pronounced before, let
your feelings, ideas  comments be heard by those that you
Intend on electing.  It's your call.Hear you on the birds!
73,
Dee, NB2F
NJ AMSAT Coordinator
Remember-Dee is really a three letter word for HEO

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Dave Guimont
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:41 PM
To: Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL
Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

At 02:58 PM 6/16/2010, you wrote:
At 01:22 PM 6/16/2010 -0500, apbid...@mailaps.org wrote:
 It is my pleasure to announce that the following have been nominated 
 to serve on the AMSAT Board of Directors for two year terms:
 
 Tom Clark, K3IO
 Lou McFadin, W5DID
 Tony Monteiro, AA2TX
 Gould Smith, WA4SXM


Which of these candidates would support adding a Mode A linear 
transponder to FOX, or any type of linear transponder for that matter.  
FOX will already have a 2m receiver all you'd need to add is a 10m 
downlink transmitter.  Use a tape measure tape for the antennas.

Why does everything always have to be FM all the time.


Vince, I've been asking the same thing for years; as others have.

I hope we are getting great financial support from the fm'ers.  I assume the
reason for fm is the assumed cost of ssw/cw rigs in comparison to fm.
I have no idea of member numbers, but assume that graph could be made
available

I've never been a big donor, but I've stopped my pittances since the FM
promotions




73, Dave, WB6LLO
dguim...@san.rr.com

Disagree: I learn

   Pulling for P3E... 

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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-16 Thread Anthony Monteiro
At 07:40 PM 6/16/2010, Dave Guimont wrote:
I hope we are getting great financial support from the fm'ers.  I
assume the reason for fm is the assumed cost of ssw/cw rigs in

Dear Dave and Vince and the group,

You guys have to know that I would love to put up a linear HEO and
resurrect the +20 net!

The reality is that AMSAT just cannot afford to pay for a HEO launch.
I do think we need to work as hard as we can to find another way to get
there but we haven't found a way just yet.

The ARISSat-1 satellite, which many of us are hard at work on right now,
will have a linear transponder but of course it is a LEO.

The AMSAT-Fox project is FM because we need a replacement for AO-51
before it dies (perhaps THE most popular satellite at present) and it is hard
to generate enough power from a 1U CubeSat to have a really good linear
transponder.

Hang in there. The world has changed and it is much more difficult than it used
to be but we are trying really hard to get there.

73,
Tony AA2TX
AMSAT VP Engineering

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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-16 Thread Tom Clark, K3IO
  Vince asked:
 Which of these candidates would support adding a Mode A linear transponder
 to FOX, or any type of linear transponder for that matter.  FOX will
 already have a 2m receiver all you'd need to add is a 10m downlink
 transmitter.  Use a tape measure tape for the antennas.
Not very practical ides -- sorry.

FOX is a 1U Cubesat, 10cm=4 on a side. Kinda hard to fit 10M dipole 
(which would be ~16 ft long, fed in the middle). You can't do it with a 
monopole because the 4 box doesn't have enough size to feed a monopole 
against. And with a 4 cube (even with deployable panels) we can only 
expect a total of a few watts (orbit average) of power.

The laws of physics and engineering are rather unforgiving!

73, Tom


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[amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates

2010-06-16 Thread Gregg Wonderly
The important thing to remember is that radio communications must be hard to 
do, require extra effort, if not repeated failure as well as persecution by 
those who have succeeded one time before, and it is most vital that anyone with 
existing equipment should never be required to change gear.   But those with 
incompatible gear must buy old stuff to meet the approval of those who have 
spent the past 50 years talking to the same people using the same mode and 
antennas to prove, repeatedly that they can say 73 and Roger while holding 
their mic, tuning their transceiver and switching antenna polarization all 
while eating a donut.

It is important to get the facts right and not do anything that would make 
there be no reason to get another box of donuts for the coming week of 
Roger-73s.

After all amateur radio is about socialization and personal communications.

Gregg Wonderly
W5GGW

On Jun 16, 2010, at 7:28 PM, Dee morse...@optonline.net wrote:

 To All...
 I just got off FO-29. It sure sounded very nice and it didn't have any
 pileups. I made 2 contacts with no one else heard. 
 AMSAT-NA has been doing its best to follow through on original Phase 3 type
 birds, however, launches
 For these type birds are not an every day opportunity being presented to us.
 (yes, we[us] are all part of
 AMSAT just by being interested in satellites)  Withholding donations at the
 present time is not really in our interests.
 We need funds to keep up the present offerings for satellite launches. This
 is the time membership should rise and show 
 support for our future efforts. ARRISsat-1 has a linear transponder and you
 can
 Listen to Gould's presentation from Dayton  find out more on the RF setup
 on the website.  We just had a DARA matching funds 
 campaign and I hope that Those that realize what funding can accomplish have
 made that a success and I personally thank those that contributed.
 We have the expertise to put together a great bird but limitations of actual
 launches holds us back.  Our Engineering team
 Has assured us that they are ready to be called on to supply us a phase 3
 comparable satellite.  HEO is not a magic word, just one
 That is still upfront and waiting for that timely spark.
 If you look at the BOD candidates, when they present their thoughts and
 objectives just go down the list and find those fitting
 Your requirements for a BOD member.  This is certainly a member society and
 exercise your selective powers when the time comes around.
 If you read the ANS bulletins, members were advised on giving their inputs
 to BOD nominees.  I see a list of volunteers that provide
 Us with ideas we can all deal with.  So as I have pronounced before, let
 your feelings, ideas  comments be heard by those that you
 Intend on electing.  It's your call.Hear you on the birds!
 73,
 Dee, NB2F
 NJ AMSAT Coordinator
 Remember-Dee is really a three letter word for HEO
 
 -Original Message-
 From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
 Behalf Of Dave Guimont
 Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:41 PM
 To: Vince Fiscus, KB7ADL
 Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org
 Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Board of Directors Candidates
 
 At 02:58 PM 6/16/2010, you wrote:
 At 01:22 PM 6/16/2010 -0500, apbid...@mailaps.org wrote:
 It is my pleasure to announce that the following have been nominated 
 to serve on the AMSAT Board of Directors for two year terms:
 
 Tom Clark, K3IO
 Lou McFadin, W5DID
 Tony Monteiro, AA2TX
 Gould Smith, WA4SXM
 
 
 Which of these candidates would support adding a Mode A linear 
 transponder to FOX, or any type of linear transponder for that matter.  
 FOX will already have a 2m receiver all you'd need to add is a 10m 
 downlink transmitter.  Use a tape measure tape for the antennas.
 
 Why does everything always have to be FM all the time.
 
 
 Vince, I've been asking the same thing for years; as others have.
 
 I hope we are getting great financial support from the fm'ers.  I assume the
 reason for fm is the assumed cost of ssw/cw rigs in comparison to fm.
 I have no idea of member numbers, but assume that graph could be made
 available
 
 I've never been a big donor, but I've stopped my pittances since the FM
 promotions
 
 
 
 
73, Dave, WB6LLO
dguim...@san.rr.com
 
Disagree: I learn
 
   Pulling for P3E... 
 
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