[amsat-bb] Re: Frustration
Do you hear a noise increase when you power up the preamp? If not, are you sure you are getting power to it? Can you hear terrestrial repeaters, and does the signal change when you cycle the preamp power? Check your ins and outs on the preamp to make sure they didn't get reversed. Same thing for any diplexer you may be using as a high pass filter. More of the obvious...sure you are tracking correctly, and at the right time? I wouldn't suspect any of the cabling or adapters other than one being flat out broken. The preamp should easily overcome any shortcomings of the cable you've described. 73, Drew KO4MA ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Frustration
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Michael Tondee wrote: > I've been trying to get my receive setup going the last few days but I'm > having horrible results. I have my 11 element 70cm "cheap yagi" back up > on the mast and my homebrew SaebrTrack and OR-360 AZ/EL TV rotator > system interfaced to SatPC32. > I have an ARR preamp mounted at the mast fed with a seperate 12VDC > feed and about a 40 foot run of JEFA brand LMR 400. Once I get into > the shack there is a bit of patchwork to the cables. I'm using a Yaesu > VX3 to receive and due to the SMA connector on the HT and not wanting to > strain it I have a 4 foot adapter cable of LMR 100 that goes from an > SMA to a SO-239. I then have to use a short length of coax with a PL-259 > to N male to mate up with a N barrel connector connected to my LMR 400 > coming from outside. Now obviously, I know this isn't optimum and eats > up valuable RF and I intend to change it ASAP but I'm hearing > absolutely nothing on AO-51 passes. Not even the hint of signals. > I'm thinking with that preamp in the line I should at lest hear > something discernible besides noise regardless of the patchwork of > cables. Am I off base in thinking this? I did catch just a bit of > discernible signal off SO-50 last night but it was almost overhead. > I'm not a beginner at this but I'm frustrated. Perhaps I'm putting too > much faith in the preamp to push the signals through my hodgepodge of > adapters and cables? Any thoughts are appreciated. > 73, > Michael, W4HIJ Michael -- I think something is quite amiss here, perhaps a connector is bad or a bad joint in one of the cables. I bet a couple of hours with a volt-ohmmeter will find the guilty party. Alternatively, you could be in a bad noise situation. By way of comparison, because of my digital project right now I have a very minimal station, with a 70cm vertical antenna soldered directly onto a N-connector. About 10' of LMR400 goes to the preamp, which then has another 100' of cable to my FT-817. AO-51 is not great copy, but I know it is there. Similarly, all the usual cubesats in CW mode, and SEEDS (CO-66) with its fine FM signal of cheering Japanese school-children. (Actually, this got me thinking that SEEDS would make a pretty good way of evaluating two side-by-side receiving systems. Pass the resulting wav files through a SSTV decoder, and the one with the better picture wins!) You might consider making a very simple vertical antenna, attaching it to one end of the preamp with a very small patch cord between it and the radio, and using that as a kind of baseline. 73, Bruce -- http://ve9qrp.blogspot.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Frustration
I concur with what Drew states here. I am presently using (not by choice) a minimum setup with a 1/4 wave 2 meter homebrew groundplane for 70cm reception. I have an in-shack pre-amp that I use when I get serious in working AO-71 but I hear it rather well above 20 degrees without the preamp. I am limited to about 20 degrees or higher due to using the ground plane and a Ringo Ranger II for the two meter up link. Above 20 degrees the ground plan works well but the Ringo begins to lose signal due to radiation angle. I recommend following Drew's suggestion and also insure that your array is pointed correctly. An 11 element array can be narrow enough to easily null out the signal if you are not in the 15 - 20 degrees beam width. Reid, W4UPD Andrew Glasbrenner wrote: > Do you hear a noise increase when you power up the preamp? If not, are > you sure you are getting power to it? Can you hear terrestrial > repeaters, and does the signal change when you cycle the preamp power? > > Check your ins and outs on the preamp to make sure they didn't get > reversed. Same thing for any diplexer you may be using as a high pass > filter. > > More of the obvious...sure you are tracking correctly, and at the right > time? > > I wouldn't suspect any of the cabling or adapters other than one being > flat out broken. The preamp should easily overcome any shortcomings of > the cable you've described. > > 73, Drew KO4MA > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Frustration
Andrew, I definitely can heart an increase in noise when I power up the preamp and also see an S-meter response. Unfortunately I have absolutely no terrestrial repeaters within my range on 70cm. I've never been able to get into one even back in the days when I had my TS-2000X. Never been able to hear them either. Checked the preamp cables to make sure they weren't backwards also. In reference to some questions from others I've had, I am compensating for doppler on receive and I've checked all my cables except for the 40 foot piece of LMR 400 for open or short with an ohmmeter. Just for giggles I decided to see if I could copy NOAA weather on 162 Mhz band and I can. Don't know if that means anything. I will check my antenna pointing. Getting an accurate fix on true north has sort of been my achilles heel before but I've managed.There is not that much declination here. When I did happen to pick up the brief SO-50 transmission last night the rotator was making a fairly large change in Azimuth though. I may just whip up a quick little groundplane to give me a baseline as someone suggested also. Thanks for all the responses I've gotten so far. Michael Andrew Glasbrenner wrote: > Do you hear a noise increase when you power up the preamp? If not, are > you sure you are getting power to it? Can you hear terrestrial > repeaters, and does the signal change when you cycle the preamp power? > > Check your ins and outs on the preamp to make sure they didn't get > reversed. Same thing for any diplexer you may be using as a high pass > filter. > > More of the obvious...sure you are tracking correctly, and at the > right time? > > I wouldn't suspect any of the cabling or adapters other than one being > flat out broken. The preamp should easily overcome any shortcomings of > the cable you've described. > > 73, Drew KO4MA > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2535 - Release Date: 11/29/09 > 19:31:00 > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Frustration
Do you have a 70 cm source of any type that you can use downrange to prove that the system is working? That is, all together as a complete system. If you can drive the source away until it is demonstrably weakening, then you can test the beam pattern, etc. If the preamp front end is hooked to a dummy load (non functioning antenna system in front of it), then the noise from the dummy load will increase. You need an external source. Bob Michael Tondee wrote: > Andrew, > I definitely can heart an increase in noise when I power up the preamp > and also see an S-meter response. Unfortunately I have absolutely no > terrestrial repeaters within my range on 70cm. I've never been able to > get into one even back in the days when I had my TS-2000X. Never been > able to hear them either. Checked the preamp cables to make sure they > weren't backwards also. > In reference to some questions from others I've had, I am compensating > for doppler on receive and I've checked all my cables except for the 40 > foot piece of LMR 400 for open or short with an ohmmeter. > Just for giggles I decided to see if I could copy NOAA weather on 162 > Mhz band and I can. Don't know if that means anything. I will check my > antenna pointing. Getting an accurate fix on true north has sort of been > my achilles heel before but I've managed.There is not that much > declination here. When I did happen to pick up the brief SO-50 > transmission last night the rotator was making a fairly large change in > Azimuth though. I may just whip up a quick little groundplane to give me > a baseline as someone suggested also. > Thanks for all the responses I've gotten so far. > Michael -- (Co)Author: DttSP, Quiktrak, PowerSDR, GnuRadio Member: ARRL, AMSAT, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. "You don't need to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.", MLK. Twitter:rwmcgwier Active: Facebook,Myspace,LinkedIn ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Frustration
Michael Tondee wrote: > I've been trying to get my receive setup going the last few days but I'm > having horrible results. I have my 11 element 70cm "cheap yagi" back up > on the mast and my homebrew SaebrTrack and OR-360 AZ/EL TV rotator > system interfaced to SatPC32 Simplify. An 11-element yagi is very very pointy. Everything would need to be absolutely bob on to even be looking *near* the satellite. Make yourself a K5OE handi-tenna - nice little three-element Yagi, great for portable operation. Work out where the satellite will "rise" and "set" and when, and tune manually for Doppler. Wait for a good high pass, and start about 10kHz high. Most FM radios tune in a minimum of 5kHz steps, so you've got only a couple of "notches" to try. The little three-element Yagi has a very broad beam, so you don't have to be *too* accurate. Gordon MM0YEQ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
Michael, Looking forward to working you and glad the problem is solved. In pre-gray hair days, I use to make fun of the TV instructions when the troubleshooting section noted: Make sure TV is plugged into outlet. Not anymore!! Just yesterday I spent a half hour wondering why my printer didn't print. When you remove the wrong ethernet cable earlier in the day and assumed it was the correct one for another device...well, you know the rest of the story. 73 Greg N3MVF -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Michael Tondee Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:06 PM To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] "Frustration" Solved! Well, just got through listening to a pass of AO-51. As several have suggested, it was a pointing issue with the antenna. I can't believe my memory has gotten to the point where I couldn't remember where North was the last time I had the antennas up. Thing is, I actually took a compass reading the other day and compensated for declination but I must have misread something somewhere. I was only about 20 degrees off! Declination here is only 4 degrees so it couldn't have been that. That's what I get for working on stuff at dusk I guess. I'm slightly embarrassed! BTW, I didn't mean to make anyone think that an 11 element yagi was too narrow for LEO's. It's fine if you point the dang thing right! Also, the reason why I went this route with the more complex antenna and AZ/EL system is that I already had the stuff on hand from my last foray into satellites. Only the preamp was new and I knew that everything had worked before. I can certainly appreciate the suggestions on simplification and I was about to do just that if I didn't have any success today. Now I just have to work out some of my cable issues and get something going for transmit. My 2 meter "cheap yagi" has seen better days. Once I get that, I'll raise the mast and get the antennas up to their normal height. I'm just using HT's right now but I hope to have a new TS-2000X sometime after the first of the year. I've been quite interested in the TS-2000 vs. IC910H thread. I know that Icom has discontinued the 910 because of the 9100 but I was under the impression that Kenwood would release a new rig at Dayton this year and wonder if that will mean the demise of the TS-2000. Thanks everyone for the suggestions and also allowing me to "vent" a bit last night.I was getting pretty frustrated. 73, Michael, W4HIJ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
Just > yesterday I spent a half hour wondering why my printer didn't print. When > you remove the wrong ethernet cable earlier in the day and assumed it was > the correct one for another device...well, you know the rest of the story. > > 73 > Greg > N3MVF > Ah the old "It was unplugged problem"a pleasant combination of Murphy and random chance... Robert WB5MZO _ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
I wish I had a buck for every time I have done this. I could drink coffee for a year at Starbuck's. Why does the technical mind (more male than female but both nevertheless) tend to run to the worst possibility rather than look for the simplest. I am about the worst offender I know. Bob > > Just > yesterday I spent a half hour wondering why my printer didn't print. When > you remove the wrong ethernet cable earlier in the day and assumed it was > the correct one for another device...well, you know the rest of the story. > > 73 > Greg > N3MVF > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
At 05:47 AM 12/1/2009, Bob McGwier wrote: >I wish I had a buck for every time I have done this. I could drink >coffee for a year at Starbuck's. Why does the technical mind (more male >than female but both nevertheless) tend to run to the worst possibility >rather than look for the simplest. I am about the worst offender I know. > >Bob > > > > > > > Just > > yesterday I spent a half hour wondering why my printer didn't print. When > > you remove the wrong ethernet cable earlier in the day and assumed it was > > the correct one for another device...well, you know the rest of the story. > > > > 73 > > Greg > > N3MVF > > > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb I smile (in self recognition). An old mentor, when I was starting in a career of electronic repair, said "its usually something simple"! "Do not automatically look for the worst cause". The first step in troubleshooting is to verify all the inputs are present, then check the outputs, then back up an look and smell. And by all means do not "assume". My eme station was not receiving last night when I started it up after a month's idleness. So I check the dc voltages (all there), then noticing the coax is connected differently, I check the outside connection (was to a different feedthru connector...hmm). Only took about 20-min to discover (apparently changed my mind on which connector to use and didn't complete the changeover). Years ago when a satellite-TV dealer, a customer called to say his set quit. I drove 100-miles to work on it to find the ac cord disconnected in back of his large entertainment cabinet. I could only justify taking some gas money from the very apologetic customer (I blew off 5-hours of my time). 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
Today I pulled a good one. I decided to go ahead and raise the mast up "temporarily" to see how much it improved the minimum horizon I could start to copy. I raised the mast and tightened the clamping bolt by hand. I had a guy wire a bit tight and as I started down the ladder to adjust it I thought, "You know, I should probably give that clamp bolt a turn with pliers so it doesn't let lose, Nahhh...it will be alright." Sure enough, as I'm standing there adjusting the turnbuckle, the bolt lets lose and antenna, rotators and all telescope back down into the lower mast section at a high rate of speed. Nothing was harmed but I ran out of daylight and wasn't able to free the upper mast section to raise it again. It's jammed at the moment. Should have listened to myself about tightening that bolt! When we get in a hurry we make stupid mistakes. Oh well, there's always tomorrow. 73, Michael W4HIJ Greg Dober wrote: > Michael, > > Looking forward to working you and glad the problem is solved. In pre-gray > hair days, I use to make fun of the TV instructions when the troubleshooting > section noted: Make sure TV is plugged into outlet. Not anymore!! Just > yesterday I spent a half hour wondering why my printer didn't print. When > you remove the wrong ethernet cable earlier in the day and assumed it was > the correct one for another device...well, you know the rest of the story. > > 73 > Greg > N3MVF > > -Original Message- > From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On > Behalf Of Michael Tondee > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:06 PM > To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] "Frustration" Solved! > > Well, just got through listening to a pass of AO-51. As several have > suggested, it was a pointing issue with the antenna. > I can't believe my memory has gotten to the point where I couldn't > remember where North was the last time I had the antennas up. > Thing is, I actually took a compass reading the other day and > compensated for declination but I must have misread something > somewhere. I was only about 20 degrees off! Declination here is only 4 > degrees so it couldn't have been that. That's what I get for working on > stuff at dusk I guess. I'm slightly embarrassed! > BTW, I didn't mean to make anyone think that an 11 element yagi was > too narrow for LEO's. It's fine if you point the dang thing right! > Also, the reason why I went this route with the more complex antenna and > AZ/EL system is that I already had the stuff on hand from my last foray > into satellites. Only the preamp was new and I knew that everything had > worked before. I can certainly appreciate the suggestions on > simplification and I was about to do just that if I didn't have any > success today. > Now I just have to work out some of my cable issues and get something > going for transmit. My 2 meter "cheap yagi" has seen better days. Once I > get that, I'll raise the mast and get the antennas up to their normal > height. > I'm just using HT's right now but I hope to have a new TS-2000X > sometime after the first of the year. I've been quite interested in the > TS-2000 vs. IC910H thread. I know that Icom has discontinued the 910 > because of the 9100 but I was under the impression that Kenwood would > release a new rig at Dayton this year and wonder if that will mean the > demise of the TS-2000. > Thanks everyone for the suggestions and also allowing me to "vent" a > bit last night.I was getting pretty frustrated. > 73, > Michael, W4HIJ > > > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
> I smile (in self recognition). An old mentor, when I was starting in > a career of electronic repair, said "its usually something > simple"! "Do not automatically look for the worst cause". The first > step in troubleshooting is to verify all the inputs are present, then > check the outputs, then back up an look and smell. And by all means > do not "assume". > Amen! We bring our 5 senses with us to our troubleshooting tasks, and then ignore them to focus on the 6th sense (guesswork!). Use all of them! (Well, maybe not taste...) Take a step back and watch the lights and meters. Listen to the sequence of clicks and buzzes (and the lack of them). Feel the temperature of the chips (the back of your hand is a marvelous thermometer at a few inches above a circuit). All are clues as to what is going on. This garden universe vibrates complete. Some may get a sound so sweet. Vibrations reach on up to become light, And then thru gamma, out of sight. Between the eyes and ears there lay, The sounds of colour and the light of a sigh. And to hear the sun, what a thing to believe. But it's all around if we could but perceive. To know ultra-violet, infra-red and X-rays, Beauty to find in so many ways. Two notes of the chord, that's our full scope. But to reach the chord is our life's hope. And to name the chord is important to some. So they give a word, and the word is OM. - The Moody Blues Greg KO6TH _ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
At 05:06 PM 12/2/2009, Greg D. wrote: >Amen! We bring our 5 senses with us to our troubleshooting tasks, >and then ignore them to focus on the 6th sense (guesswork!). Use >all of them! (Well, maybe not taste...) Take a step back and watch >the lights and meters. Listen to the sequence of clicks and buzzes You've never checked the state of a 9V battery with your tongue? ;) 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
Actually, I do that all the time! Greg KO6TH > Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:45:50 +1100 > To: ko6th_g...@hotmail.com; kl...@acsalaska.net; rwmcgw...@gmail.com; > amsat-bb@amsat.org > From: vk3...@gmail.com > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved! > > At 05:06 PM 12/2/2009, Greg D. wrote: > > >Amen! We bring our 5 senses with us to our troubleshooting tasks, > >and then ignore them to focus on the 6th sense (guesswork!). Use > >all of them! (Well, maybe not taste...) Take a step back and watch > >the lights and meters. Listen to the sequence of clicks and buzzes > > You've never checked the state of a 9V battery with your tongue? ;) > > 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL > http://vkradio.com > _ Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: "Frustration" Solved!
At 06:23 PM 12/2/2009, Greg D. wrote: >Actually, I do that all the time! > > You've never checked the state of a 9V battery with your tongue? ;) I rest my case, and you were right, use all 5 senses. ;) 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
