[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[wa4hfn]

More space junk  JUNK as far as we hams care. How many of these things do you 
need. Send up a good repeater and we will all be happy Beep Beep Beep  Beep Beep
 Damon

- Original Message -
From: "Vu Trong Thu" 
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:29:18 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

Dear everyone,

According to latest news from JAXA, deployment of the 5 CubeSats to space by
the robotic arm of Kibo module on the ISS will be carried out on Thursday,
September  27. Here is the plan:

-  First, 15h10 to 15h20: WE WISH and RAIKO from POD #1

-  Second,16h30 to 16h40: TechEdSat, F-1 và FITSAT-1 from POD#2

 

All time in UTC. The event is planned to be broadcasted live on the
following websites:

http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/jaxa_exp/hoshide/library/live/ 

http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv 

 

30 minutes after deployment from the station, F-1 will begin transmitting
beacon alternatively on its main and backup channels. Telemetry and beacon
data from F-1 contain critical information about the satellite’s health
(battery & solar cell voltages, temperature readings) and they are very
important to us, especially in the first week of operation. Thus, we would
like to ask the amateur radio community to help in tracking and receiving
data from F-1 CubeSat.

 

Here’s a quick summary of F-1’ frequencies:

-  145.980 MHz: main channel, 1.0W RF output, FM, AFSK 1200bps, one
telemetry packet every 30 seconds, operates in the dark by default (but can
be commanded later to operate in sunlight as well)

-  437.485 MHz: backup channel, 0.2W RF output, FM, PWM CW beacon,
each beacon transmission lasts about 20 seconds then 60 seconds delay, only
operates in sunlight

 

More information and guide to download F-1 telemetry decoder can be found at
http://fspace.edu.vn/?page_id=27. Decoded data can be submitted to us via
the telemetry decoder or by sending to me directly (th...@fpt.edu.vn), audio
records are highly appreciated. 

 

Please feel free to send me a message if there is any question. We would
really appreciate your kind support!

 

73,

Thu XV9AA

F-1 CubeSat Project Manager

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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Vu Trong Thu]

At ISS altitude it will take care of itself after a few months so don't worry 
about space junk.

Thanks,
Thu

-Original Message-
From: wa4...@comcast.net [mailto:wa4...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 8:41 PM
To: Vu Trong Thu
Cc: AMSAT
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

More space junk  JUNK as far as we hams care. How many of these things do you 
need. Send up a good repeater and we will all be happy Beep Beep Beep  Beep 
Beep  Damon

- Original Message -
From: "Vu Trong Thu" 
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 6:29:18 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

Dear everyone,

According to latest news from JAXA, deployment of the 5 CubeSats to space by 
the robotic arm of Kibo module on the ISS will be carried out on Thursday, 
September  27. Here is the plan:

-  First, 15h10 to 15h20: WE WISH and RAIKO from POD #1

-  Second,16h30 to 16h40: TechEdSat, F-1 và FITSAT-1 from POD#2

 

All time in UTC. The event is planned to be broadcasted live on the following 
websites:

http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/jaxa_exp/hoshide/library/live/ 

http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv 

 

30 minutes after deployment from the station, F-1 will begin transmitting 
beacon alternatively on its main and backup channels. Telemetry and beacon data 
from F-1 contain critical information about the satellite’s health (battery & 
solar cell voltages, temperature readings) and they are very important to us, 
especially in the first week of operation. Thus, we would like to ask the 
amateur radio community to help in tracking and receiving data from F-1 CubeSat.

 

Here’s a quick summary of F-1’ frequencies:

-  145.980 MHz: main channel, 1.0W RF output, FM, AFSK 1200bps, one
telemetry packet every 30 seconds, operates in the dark by default (but can be 
commanded later to operate in sunlight as well)

-  437.485 MHz: backup channel, 0.2W RF output, FM, PWM CW beacon,
each beacon transmission lasts about 20 seconds then 60 seconds delay, only 
operates in sunlight

 

More information and guide to download F-1 telemetry decoder can be found at 
http://fspace.edu.vn/?page_id=27. Decoded data can be submitted to us via the 
telemetry decoder or by sending to me directly (th...@fpt.edu.vn), audio 
records are highly appreciated. 

 

Please feel free to send me a message if there is any question. We would really 
appreciate your kind support!

 

73,

Thu XV9AA

F-1 CubeSat Project Manager

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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Dave Webb KB1PVH]

Insult them, that's a great way to get groups to consider a repeater on
board. Believe it or not, some people enjoy the peacefulness of receiving
telemetry versus the the fight with inconsiderate operators.

Dave-KB1PVH

Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

Their original 3u design included a transponder. Hopefully they will overlook 
the boorish behavior and consider it for follow on projects.

Good luck and congratulations in advance on the deployment of F-1

73, Drew KO4MA
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 24, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Dave Webb KB1PVH  wrote:

> Insult them, that's a great way to get groups to consider a repeater on
> board. Believe it or not, some people enjoy the peacefulness of receiving
> telemetry versus the the fight with inconsiderate operators.
> 
> Dave-KB1PVH
> 
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Trevor .]

Thanks for the update Thu. 

I appreciate the work that you and the students from the FPT University have 
put into this project.

I hope the deployment of F-1 and the other CubeSats will be a success and I 
look forward to receiving the signals. 

73 Trevor M5AKA

--- On Mon, 24/9/12, Vu Trong Thu  wrote:

> From: Vu Trong Thu 
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat
> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Date: Monday, 24 September, 2012, 12:29
> Dear everyone,
> 
> According to latest news from JAXA, deployment of the 5
> CubeSats to space by
> the robotic arm of Kibo module on the ISS will be carried
> out on Thursday,
> September  27. Here is the plan:
> 
> -          First, 15h10 to 15h20:
> WE WISH and RAIKO from POD #1
> 
> -          Second,16h30 to 16h40:
> TechEdSat, F-1 và FITSAT-1 from POD#2
> 
>  
> 
> All time in UTC. The event is planned to be broadcasted live
> on the
> following websites:
> 
> http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/jaxa_exp/hoshide/library/live/ 
> 
> http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv 
> 
>  
> 
> 30 minutes after deployment from the station, F-1 will begin
> transmitting
> beacon alternatively on its main and backup channels.
> Telemetry and beacon
> data from F-1 contain critical information about the
> satellite’s health
> (battery & solar cell voltages, temperature readings)
> and they are very
> important to us, especially in the first week of operation.
> Thus, we would
> like to ask the amateur radio community to help in tracking
> and receiving
> data from F-1 CubeSat.
> 
>  
> 
> Here’s a quick summary of F-1’ frequencies:
> 
> -          145.980 MHz: main
> channel, 1.0W RF output, FM, AFSK 1200bps, one
> telemetry packet every 30 seconds, operates in the dark by
> default (but can
> be commanded later to operate in sunlight as well)
> 
> -          437.485 MHz: backup
> channel, 0.2W RF output, FM, PWM CW beacon,
> each beacon transmission lasts about 20 seconds then 60
> seconds delay, only
> operates in sunlight
> 
>  
> 
> More information and guide to download F-1 telemetry decoder
> can be found at
> http://fspace.edu.vn/?page_id=27. Decoded data can be
> submitted to us via
> the telemetry decoder or by sending to me directly (th...@fpt.edu.vn),
> audio
> records are highly appreciated. 
> 
>  
> 
> Please feel free to send me a message if there is any
> question. We would
> really appreciate your kind support!
> 
>  
> 
> 73,
> 
> Thu XV9AA
> 
> F-1 CubeSat Project Manager
> 
> ___
> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org.
> Opinions expressed are those of the author.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
> satellite program!
> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
> 

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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Gus 8P6SM]

On 09/24/2012 10:56 AM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:

Their original 3u design included a transponder. Hopefully they will
overlook the boorish behavior and consider it for follow on projects.


Or maybe we will consider denying them the use of ham frequencies?

--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[John Becker]

For what its worth. . . 

some of the post to this subject seem to have been posted in the 
HTML mode. 

This being a plain text list was just unreadable.
Only fix was to delete.

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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[John Spasojevich]

Or maybe they will be reallocated to them. They use them more than we do.
Maybe hams in your world own frequencies but in tge USA their use is a
privilege not a right.

John, AG9D
On Sep 24, 2012 11:26 AM, "Gus 8P6SM" <8p...@anjo.com> wrote:

> On 09/24/2012 10:56 AM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
>
>> Their original 3u design included a transponder. Hopefully they will
>> overlook the boorish behavior and consider it for follow on projects.
>>
>
> Or maybe we will consider denying them the use of ham frequencies?
>
> --
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
> __**_
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> http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bb
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

On Sep 24, 2012, at 12:10 PM, Gus 8P6SM <8p6sm@
> 
> Or maybe we will consider denying them the use of ham frequencies?
> 
> -- 
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
> ___

Under what authority? They are licensed amateur radio operators, and self 
training and education has always been a tenet of amateur radio, whether you 
approve or not.

The level of discourse around here lately has been pretty dismal. If we are 
judged by our behavior on this list (and we are), I'm not surprised so few 
educational satellite programs want to work with us. The arrogance and 
entitlement mentality is embarrassing.

73, Drew KO4MA
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Mark L. Hammond]

Hello Vu,

Congratulations to you and your students.  I can only imagine the thrill of 
anticipating the release from the ISS of the physical evidence of your hard 
work.  We shared the same excitement when ARISSat-1 was released.  

The F-1 telemetry program installed just fine.  It will be my privilege to 
receive and forward to you and your team F-1 telemetry.  Hopefully you and your 
students will learn a great deal about satellite engineering, assembly, and 
operations.  This telemetry information should prove useful to you in the 
development of future missions. 

Best wishes for remaining on the schedule for release, and for a successful 
mission.

73,

Mark N8MH
AMSAT VP for Educational Relations



At 06:29 PM 9/24/2012 +0700, Vu Trong Thu wrote:
>Dear everyone,
>
>According to latest news from JAXA, deployment of the 5 CubeSats to space by
>the robotic arm of Kibo module on the ISS will be carried out on Thursday,
>September  27. Here is the plan:
>
>-  First, 15h10 to 15h20: WE WISH and RAIKO from POD #1
>
>-  Second,16h30 to 16h40: TechEdSat, F-1 và FITSAT-1 from POD#2
>
> 
>
>All time in UTC. The event is planned to be broadcasted live on the
>following websites:
>
>http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/jaxa_exp/hoshide/library/live/ 
>
>http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv 
>
> 
>
>30 minutes after deployment from the station, F-1 will begin transmitting
>beacon alternatively on its main and backup channels. Telemetry and beacon
>data from F-1 contain critical information about the satellite’s health
>(battery & solar cell voltages, temperature readings) and they are very
>important to us, especially in the first week of operation. Thus, we would
>like to ask the amateur radio community to help in tracking and receiving
>data from F-1 CubeSat.
>
> 
>
>Here’s a quick summary of F-1’ frequencies:
>
>-  145.980 MHz: main channel, 1.0W RF output, FM, AFSK 1200bps, one
>telemetry packet every 30 seconds, operates in the dark by default (but can
>be commanded later to operate in sunlight as well)
>
>-  437.485 MHz: backup channel, 0.2W RF output, FM, PWM CW beacon,
>each beacon transmission lasts about 20 seconds then 60 seconds delay, only
>operates in sunlight
>
> 
>
>More information and guide to download F-1 telemetry decoder can be found at
>http://fspace.edu.vn/?page_id=27. Decoded data can be submitted to us via
>the telemetry decoder or by sending to me directly (th...@fpt.edu.vn), audio
>records are highly appreciated. 
>
> 
>
>Please feel free to send me a message if there is any question. We would
>really appreciate your kind support!
>
> 
>
>73,
>
>Thu XV9AA
>
>F-1 CubeSat Project Manager
>
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>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Gus 8P6SM]

On 09/24/2012 12:39 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:

Or maybe they will be reallocated to them.


The chances of which increases, with every satellite launched that uses 
the amateur bands but carries no amateur payload.



They use them more than we do.


Whose fault is that?


Maybe hams in your world own frequencies but in tge USA their use is
a privilege not a right.


In my world, hams have a RIGHT to properly use the frequencies that are 
ALLOCATED for their use.  And a RIGHT to complain when they are misused.


--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[John Spasojevich]

In the states ham bands ate under constant pressure from commercial
intetests on the FCC for reallocation. Having those birds up there proves
the need and helps stave off reallocation. If we leabe them unused they
will go away. If I could launch a cube sat for my experimental interests it
would use ham bands and may only send back tlm. So am I prohibited from
that?

John, AG9D
On Sep 24, 2012 12:10 PM, "Gus 8P6SM" <8p...@anjo.com> wrote:

> On 09/24/2012 12:39 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:
>
>> Or maybe they will be reallocated to them.
>>
>
> The chances of which increases, with every satellite launched that uses
> the amateur bands but carries no amateur payload.
>
>  They use them more than we do.
>>
>
> Whose fault is that?
>
>  Maybe hams in your world own frequencies but in tge USA their use is
>> a privilege not a right.
>>
>
> In my world, hams have a RIGHT to properly use the frequencies that are
> ALLOCATED for their use.  And a RIGHT to complain when they are misused.
>
> --
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Mike Rupprecht]

Dear Thu,
... good luck for an successful mission! As you already know - my station is
up and running to support you and your student group. Looking forward to
receiving F-1 telemetry.

Best wishes, 73 
Mike
DK3WN

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] Im
Auftrag von Vu Trong Thu
Gesendet: Montag, 24. September 2012 13:29
An: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Betreff: [amsat-bb] Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

Dear everyone,

According to latest news from JAXA, deployment of the 5 CubeSats to space by
the robotic arm of Kibo module on the ISS will be carried out on Thursday,
September  27. Here is the plan:

-  First, 15h10 to 15h20: WE WISH and RAIKO from POD #1

-  Second,16h30 to 16h40: TechEdSat, F-1 và FITSAT-1 from POD#2

 

All time in UTC. The event is planned to be broadcasted live on the
following websites:

http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/jaxa_exp/hoshide/library/live/ 

http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv 

 

30 minutes after deployment from the station, F-1 will begin transmitting
beacon alternatively on its main and backup channels. Telemetry and beacon
data from F-1 contain critical information about the satellite’s health
(battery & solar cell voltages, temperature readings) and they are very
important to us, especially in the first week of operation. Thus, we would
like to ask the amateur radio community to help in tracking and receiving
data from F-1 CubeSat.

 

Here’s a quick summary of F-1’ frequencies:

-  145.980 MHz: main channel, 1.0W RF output, FM, AFSK 1200bps, one
telemetry packet every 30 seconds, operates in the dark by default (but can
be commanded later to operate in sunlight as well)

-  437.485 MHz: backup channel, 0.2W RF output, FM, PWM CW beacon,
each beacon transmission lasts about 20 seconds then 60 seconds delay, only
operates in sunlight

 

More information and guide to download F-1 telemetry decoder can be found at
http://fspace.edu.vn/?page_id=27. Decoded data can be submitted to us via
the telemetry decoder or by sending to me directly (th...@fpt.edu.vn), audio
records are highly appreciated. 

 

Please feel free to send me a message if there is any question. We would
really appreciate your kind support!

 

73,

Thu XV9AA

F-1 CubeSat Project Manager

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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Gus 8P6SM]

On 09/24/2012 01:32 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:

If I could launch a cube sat for my experimental interests it would use
ham bands and may only send back tlm. So am I prohibited from that?


I, for one, would oppose the launch of, and object to your Cube Sat's 
use of amateur frequencies, if it used those frequencies for non-ham 
purposes.


Perhaps you should read ITU Radio Regulations – Article 1, specifically 
parts 55 thru 57:


  1.55 Space research service
  A radiocommunication service in which spacecraft or other objects
  in space are used for scientific or technological research purposes.

  1.56 Amateur service
  A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training,
  intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by
  amateurs, that is, by duly authorized persons interested in radio
  technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

  1.57 Amateur-satellite service
  A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth satellites
  for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.

We need to be VERY careful to maintain a DISTINCTION between 1.55 and 
1.57.  Otherwise, all those who currently operate under 1.55 can simply 
start freely using our frequencies and claim to be operating under 1.57 
without let or hindrance.  To say that whatever you do, if you simply 
claim it is "self-training" or "technical investigation" you get free 
use of the ham bands is to open a particularly nasty can of worms.


--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Bill Ress]

Drew responded very appropriately. I would suggest that no further 
reply's are needed to Gus on the subject and that this discourse end 
lest we get into another waste of time and bandwidth.


Good luck to all upcoming ISS CubeSat launches.

Regards...Bill - N6GHz

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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[John Spasojevich]

I fail to see where your references prohibit such activity as long as hams
are involved. Would a school ham radio club be prohibited ? I think the
main issue is that these birds don't satisfy YOUR personal interest. Just
as ragchewing and dx-ing don't satisfy the schools exerimental goals. So
maybe helping them build a transponder would satisfy both. But then its not
HEO so maybe just let the freqs die until funding is there for the
appropriate use. By then thiae freqs will have long since been reallocated

Its beating a dead horse. That want HEO dx-ing and ragchewing are free to
build one. You don't need AMSAT anywhere do do that. Channel your energy
into such a constructive project. I seriously doubt the complaining will
get anything done.

John, AG9D
On Sep 24, 2012 1:03 PM, "Gus 8P6SM" <8p...@anjo.com> wrote:

> On 09/24/2012 01:32 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:
>
>> If I could launch a cube sat for my experimental interests it would use
>> ham bands and may only send back tlm. So am I prohibited from that?
>>
>
> I, for one, would oppose the launch of, and object to your Cube Sat's use
> of amateur frequencies, if it used those frequencies for non-ham purposes.
>
> Perhaps you should read ITU Radio Regulations – Article 1, specifically
> parts 55 thru 57:
>
>   1.55 Space research service
>   A radiocommunication service in which spacecraft or other objects
>   in space are used for scientific or technological research purposes.
>
>   1.56 Amateur service
>   A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training,
>   intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by
>   amateurs, that is, by duly authorized persons interested in radio
>   technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
>
>   1.57 Amateur-satellite service
>   A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth satellites
>   for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.
>
> We need to be VERY careful to maintain a DISTINCTION between 1.55 and
> 1.57.  Otherwise, all those who currently operate under 1.55 can simply
> start freely using our frequencies and claim to be operating under 1.57
> without let or hindrance.  To say that whatever you do, if you simply claim
> it is "self-training" or "technical investigation" you get free use of the
> ham bands is to open a particularly nasty can of worms.
>
> --
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Gus 8P6SM]

On 09/24/2012 02:56 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:

I fail to see where your references prohibit such activity as long as
hams are involved. Would a school ham radio club be prohibited ?


Of course.  IF what they were doing was not ham-related.  Just because 
you have a ham license doesn't mean you can get on the air and use the 
frequencies for whatever you like.


Would it be OK for NASA to use ham frequencies for their Mars Rover 
project, just because someone at NASA went out and got themself a ham 
ticket?  After all, the Mars Rover programme is undoubtedly educational, 
and also a technical investigation.



I think the main issue is that these birds don't satisfy YOUR personal
interest.  Just as ragchewing and dx-ing don't satisfy the schools
exerimental goals.


And neither should the schools assume that the amateur radio community 
automatically stands ready to satisfy THEIR needs, no matter what those 
needs are.



So maybe helping them build a transponder would satisfy both.


Yes, I think it would, as a reasonable compromise.  In fact, maybe we 
should PROVIDE them with a working comms board that gives them the data 
pathways they need to fulfill their experimental needs AND at the same 
time provides US with something that provides OUR needs.


It seems the entire focus these days is upon leveraging educational 
opportunities.  The theory goes, as I understand it:  Since we can't 
afford to pay for a launch of our own, we COOPERATE with educational 
institutions (who do seem able to get launches) to provide useable 
frequencies -- and potentially a global network of groundstations -- IN 
EXCHANGE for some sort of communications functionality that can be used 
BY US.


Except it isn't happening.  One satellite after another, they get what 
we have to offer (bandwidth), and they offer us... NOTHING in return.



But  then its not HEO so maybe just let the freqs die until funding
is there for the appropriate use. By then thiae freqs will have long
since been reallocated


I used to enjoy working HEO, but I am not against LEO satellites, and 
have worked quite a few myself.  But low orbit or highly elliptical, the 
more people that end up using our frequencies for non-amateur purposes, 
the greater the case that is being made for the reallocation of those 
frequencies.



Its beating a dead horse. That want HEO dx-ing and ragchewing are free
to build one. You don't need AMSAT anywhere do do that.


I thought that's exactly what AMSAT was created for.  The construction, 
launch, care and feeding of satellites for use by the community of 
amateur radio operators.  Guess not, eh?



Channel your energy into such a constructive project. I seriously doubt
the complaining will get anything done.


Neither, apparently, will AMSAT.

--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Geoff]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:28:08 am Dave Webb KB1PVH wrote:
> Insult them, that's a great way to get groups to consider a repeater on
> board. Believe it or not, some people enjoy the peacefulness of receiving
> telemetry versus the the fight with inconsiderate operators.
>
> Dave-KB1PVH
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid RAZR
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+1  de vk2tfg
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

> 
> Yes, I think it would, as a reasonable compromise.  In fact, maybe we should 
> PROVIDE them with a working comms board that gives them the data pathways 
> they need to fulfill their experimental needs AND at the same time provides 
> US with something that provides OUR needs.
> 
> It seems the entire focus these days is upon leveraging educational 
> opportunities.  The theory goes, as I understand it:  Since we can't afford 
> to pay for a launch of our own, we COOPERATE with educational institutions 
> (who do seem able to get launches) to provide useable frequencies -- and 
> potentially a global network of groundstations -- IN EXCHANGE for some sort 
> of communications functionality that can be used BY US.
> 

We could even call it AMSAT Fox! And take donations on the front page of the 
website via PayPal! And use the same avionics on projects with other entities, 
and apply for free educational launches!

73, Drew KO4MA
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[John Spasojevich]

Well Gus, I'm guessing you read Barry's comments regarding launch cost. So
write the check and we'll be ready.  By the time $10M is raised, the cost
will have tripled. We are talking about hams, not sure how their wallets
are where you are but here in the states, if something is listed at 50
cents they'll try and screw you down to 5. So good luck raising that kind
of cash in the a reasonable amount of time. Until a school or someone else
needs a HEO bird, the path is pretty clear for now.

John, AG9D

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Gus 8P6SM <8p...@anjo.com> wrote:

> On 09/24/2012 02:56 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:
>
>> I fail to see where your references prohibit such activity as long as
>> hams are involved. Would a school ham radio club be prohibited ?
>>
>
> Of course.  IF what they were doing was not ham-related.  Just because you
> have a ham license doesn't mean you can get on the air and use the
> frequencies for whatever you like.
>
> Would it be OK for NASA to use ham frequencies for their Mars Rover
> project, just because someone at NASA went out and got themself a ham
> ticket?  After all, the Mars Rover programme is undoubtedly educational,
> and also a technical investigation.
>
>
>  I think the main issue is that these birds don't satisfy YOUR personal
>> interest.  Just as ragchewing and dx-ing don't satisfy the schools
>> exerimental goals.
>>
>
> And neither should the schools assume that the amateur radio community
> automatically stands ready to satisfy THEIR needs, no matter what those
> needs are.
>
>
>  So maybe helping them build a transponder would satisfy both.
>>
>
> Yes, I think it would, as a reasonable compromise.  In fact, maybe we
> should PROVIDE them with a working comms board that gives them the data
> pathways they need to fulfill their experimental needs AND at the same time
> provides US with something that provides OUR needs.
>
> It seems the entire focus these days is upon leveraging educational
> opportunities.  The theory goes, as I understand it:  Since we can't afford
> to pay for a launch of our own, we COOPERATE with educational institutions
> (who do seem able to get launches) to provide useable frequencies -- and
> potentially a global network of groundstations -- IN EXCHANGE for some sort
> of communications functionality that can be used BY US.
>
> Except it isn't happening.  One satellite after another, they get what we
> have to offer (bandwidth), and they offer us... NOTHING in return.
>
>
>  But  then its not HEO so maybe just let the freqs die until funding
>> is there for the appropriate use. By then thiae freqs will have long
>> since been reallocated
>>
>
> I used to enjoy working HEO, but I am not against LEO satellites, and have
> worked quite a few myself.  But low orbit or highly elliptical, the more
> people that end up using our frequencies for non-amateur purposes, the
> greater the case that is being made for the reallocation of those
> frequencies.
>
>
>  Its beating a dead horse. That want HEO dx-ing and ragchewing are free
>> to build one. You don't need AMSAT anywhere do do that.
>>
>
> I thought that's exactly what AMSAT was created for.  The construction,
> launch, care and feeding of satellites for use by the community of amateur
> radio operators.  Guess not, eh?
>
>
>  Channel your energy into such a constructive project. I seriously doubt
>> the complaining will get anything done.
>>
>
> Neither, apparently, will AMSAT.
>
>
> --
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Gus 8P6SM]

On 09/24/2012 04:22 PM, John Spasojevich wrote:

Well Gus, I'm guessing you read Barry's comments regarding launch cost.


I did, and the number is exactly what I previously thought it was.


So write the check and we'll be ready.


Believe you me, if I had the cash, I would do exactly that.


By the time $10M is raised, the cost will have tripled.


Well, that depends upon how fast it is raised.  How much have we raised 
so far?  In the nearly twelve years since the last HEO launch?



We are talking about hams, not sure how their wallets are where you are
but here in the states, if something is listed at 50 cents they'll try
and screw you down to 5.


Same here.  But we will still pay 10 grand for a rig if we really want 
to.  Isn't it the same where you live?  It's the bread and water 
principle.  You eat bread and water, and save up for what you want. 
Enough bread and water and you can afford anything!  :-)



So good luck raising that kind of cash in the  a reasonable amount of
time. Until a school or someone else needs a HEO  bird, the path is
pretty clear for now.


One way to make sure that you never raise the funds is to keep saying 
"We can't afford it!" and never save up.


I seem to have given the impression that I am against LEO birds.  I am 
not.  As it happens, I believe that HEO birds are better.  In that they 
generally offer more facilities for hams generally, and my selfish, 
ragchewing, DX-chasing butt in particular.  Where I live, LEO satellites 
mostly give me an opportunity to make contact with fish, swimming in the 
mid Atlantic.  So yes, I have a preference for HEO satellites.


But I'm not against LEO birds per se.  I AM against any satellite, HEO 
or LEO, that uses our frequencies as a free alternative to the "Space 
Research Band" and GIVE NOTHING BACK IN RETURN.  Neither a functioning 
transponder that hams can use, nor a financial donation towards the 
launch of a bird of our own.  Not even, in most cases, research of 
particular interest to the broader ham community.


As for paying for an HEO launch, I can't afford to cough up that much. 
I can't even afford to cough up 1% of the required sum towards a launch 
fund.  Even 0.1% would be a financial strain, but it might be doable. 
As it turns out there IS no launch fund for any HEO satellite for me to 
contribute to.


--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Gus 8P6SM]

On 09/24/2012 04:07 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:


Yes, I think it would, as a reasonable compromise.  In fact, maybe we
should PROVIDE them with a working comms board that gives them the data
pathways they need to fulfill their experimental needs AND at the same
time provides US with something that provides OUR needs.

It seems the entire focus these days is upon leveraging educational
opportunities.  The theory goes, as I understand it:  Since we can't
afford to pay for a launch of our own, we COOPERATE with educational
institutions (who do seem able to get launches) to provide useable
frequencies -- and potentially a global network of groundstations --
IN EXCHANGE for some sort of communications functionality that can be
used BY US.



We could even call it AMSAT Fox! And take donations on the front page
of the website via PayPal! And use the same avionics on projects with
other entities, and apply for free educational launches!


Excellent idea!  When do we start?  Because it seems there are a LOT of 
birds up there that DON'T actually give anything back.  What ratio of 
satellites that DON'T to satellites that DO must we reach, before 
someone points out that it is in fact, no longer our band?


More seriously:  I see the FOX PayPal applet saying a little under $7.5k 
at the present.  How long has it taken to raise that amount?  How much 
do we actually need?  Or to get to the crux of the matter, at the 
current rate, when will we hit the required target, in comparison to 
when we need to pay for the launch?


--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

>someone points out that it is in fact, no longer our band?
>

70cm is a shared band, and is where the bulk of the cubes go. Amateur radio is 
a secondary user. Were the satellites (at least from the US) to apply for a 
part 5 experimental license, they could and would use the exact same 
frequencies. In fact, it's happened already. It's a moot point about "our band" 
vs. "their band". We need to adapt or perish, as plain as that.


>More seriously:  I see the FOX PayPal applet saying a little under $7.5k 
>at the present.  How long has it taken to raise that amount?  

That portion of the funding dates from about when ARISSat reentered in January, 
and we switched widgets to the current Fox one. More was raised from direct 
mailings to members.

>How much 
>do we actually need?  Or to get to the crux of the matter, at the 
>current rate, when will we hit the required target, in comparison to 
>when we need to pay for the launch?

"We" have a subsidized launch already courtesy of NASA's ELANA program, because 
of the educational aspect. Current estimate is late 2013, details to be 
determined. Other flight opportunities for additional spacecraft are pending. 
The funds being raised now go towards construction and other costs. See 
http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/fox/ for more info.

All of this is regularly updated in letters and the Journal that go to current 
paid members, as well as ANS and on the website.

73, Drew KO4MA


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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Andrew Glasbrenner]

 
>As it turns out there IS no launch fund for any HEO satellite for me to 
>contribute to.

Incorrect. 

http://www.amsat-dl.org/index.php/spendendonations-topmenu-125

I've given to AMSAT-NA, -DL, and -UK, and am members of -NA and -UK. I'd be a 
member of -DL, but my wife gets tired of me asking what this and that means in 
Deutsch.

73, Drew KO4MA


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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[Gus 8P6SM]

On 09/24/2012 08:07 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:

As it turns out there IS no launch fund for any HEO satellite for me to
contribute to.


Incorrect.

http://www.amsat-dl.org/index.php/spendendonations-topmenu-125

I've given to AMSAT-NA, -DL, and -UK, and am members of -NA and -UK. I'd
be a member of -DL, but my wife gets tired of me asking what this and
that means in Deutsch.

73, Drew KO4MA


I will admit, I was speaking about AMSAT-NA specifically, but failed to 
say so.  I have also hesitated to join AMSAT-DL simply because I can't 
understand the language.  I've previously been a member of AMSAT-NA and 
AMSAT-UK.


I am not averse to rejoining AMSAT-NA (because NA is closer to me than 
UK) but frankly, I am not convinced that the policies being followed 
will result in more/better/any satellites that I can actually use.  As 
has been pointed out here very recently, the new AMSAT-NA mission 
statement does not even mention the word "communications".


--
73, de Gus 8P6SM
The Easternmost Isle
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[amsat-bb] Re: Need your support to track F-1 CubeSat

[John Spasojevich]

I like going round and round in circles as much as the next guy. Now we
seem to be getting to the crux of the issue. Perhaps it's just the feeling
I get from reading the messages, predominantly from those across the pond
from the USA. It seems that the bashing and complaining is mostly directed
at AMSAT-NA as if everyone expects the US version of AMSAT to fund, build
and launch everything. There is AMSAT-UK, -DL, -Italia, - India, - South
Africa, -China (CAMSAT) and Brazil. I'm sure I missed a few. So rather than
expect -NA to do it all perhaps those AMSAT organizations not held under
the thumb of ITAR ( or maybe that are too ) should band together, like the
international partners of the ISS have and build one giant bird for all of
us.

John, AG9D

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Gus 8P6SM <8p...@anjo.com> wrote:

> On 09/24/2012 08:07 PM, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
>
>> As it turns out there IS no launch fund for any HEO satellite for me to
>>> contribute to.
>>>
>>
>> Incorrect.
>>
>> http://www.amsat-dl.org/index.**php/spendendonations-topmenu-**125
>>
>> I've given to AMSAT-NA, -DL, and -UK, and am members of -NA and -UK. I'd
>> be a member of -DL, but my wife gets tired of me asking what this and
>> that means in Deutsch.
>>
>> 73, Drew KO4MA
>>
>
> I will admit, I was speaking about AMSAT-NA specifically, but failed to
> say so.  I have also hesitated to join AMSAT-DL simply because I can't
> understand the language.  I've previously been a member of AMSAT-NA and
> AMSAT-UK.
>
> I am not averse to rejoining AMSAT-NA (because NA is closer to me than UK)
> but frankly, I am not convinced that the policies being followed will
> result in more/better/any satellites that I can actually use.  As has been
> pointed out here very recently, the new AMSAT-NA mission statement does not
> even mention the word "communications".
>
>
> --
> 73, de Gus 8P6SM
> The Easternmost Isle
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