[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
Ed, Congrats, it seems like you are in business if you heard the bird down to the horizon. HO-68 is louder, in some cases much louder, than most of the other sats, so check some others. If you can copy SO-50 to the horizon, then leave your antenna alone, it's working great. I measured a maximum of 20w directly at the antenna, and Elk claims a gain of 6.6 dbd on 2m, which would mean an ERP of 90 watts. I do not need full power at high elevations. 73, Bill NZ5N From: Edward Cole kl...@acsalaska.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Message-ID: 201002092025.o19kpapg010...@huffman.acsalaska.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed One more update: I tried pass #744, this morning and copied a big round-table of several west-coast stations, but was unable to break in. My downlink was as loud as them, so...? I had one call to my CQ right at LOS and could not complete, sorry! Bear with me as I am getting reaquainted with running my radio on satellites ;-) My sub-VFO tuning control is not working which complicates netting with another station. So I find my signal with the Rx and then engage tracking. That tracks for a little while. The interesting thing is that I copied signals to zero-elevation. I would say that I am pleased with the new antennas. Question: what ERP are most stations using on SSB on HO-68? I am running 50w ERP. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
... (Alaska ... a little inclement weather) ... The preamp makes the UHF Lindy work nearly equal with the high-price stuff...and much simpler ... I obviously didn't take your inclement weather conditions into account! A little spoiled down here in Southern California when it comes to weather ... (grin) Clint, K6LCS ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
Dave, I would be suspicious of the construction. I can get a few minutes of good copy from AO-51 on a high pass with just a rubber duck on an HT. If you do get a preamp, the run between the antenna and the preamp is critical, so if possible keep it short and use good coax. Ed seems to be having success with 4' of RG-58U, but generally the use of any RG-58U at 70cm is not a good idea. Here's a quick summary of my results with various antennas: * HT and rubber duck or other antenna mounted directly on the HT - success only at high elevations * HT and Arrow or Elk antenna, no preamp - success from horizon to horizon, if no trees or other obstructions * base rig and dual band omnidirectional ground plane, no preamp, 40' of RG-213U - success on most birds only when elevation is above 25-35 degrees * base rig and dual band omnidirectional ground plane, ARR preamp, 40' of RG-213U - success on most birds when elevation is above 15 degrees * base rig and Elk antenna on 12' pole at 15 degrees fixed elevation, azimuth rotation with old TV antenna rotor, ARR preamp, 70' coax run (my current setup) - full success from horizon to horizon on all birds, except in directions where blocked by trees or roof. The Elk is $135 shipped and the used rotor was $25, and this combo is by far the most effective I have used. My community has antenna restrictions, but so far no one has complained about the little 2' long Elk. The Elk could be replaced with a homebrew Cheap Yagi or tape measure yagi, which can be built for $10. I am not aware of anyone who is able to work the sats at low elevations with any type of omnidirectional antenna, even with the best preamp. You can have plenty of fun working the birds at higher elevations, but you will be able to work more passes and better DX (e.g., Europe on AO-7) if you can catch them at lower elevations. 73, Bill NZ5N Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:26:11 -0700 From: David Ek d...@eksfiles.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Message-ID: 4b70aba3.9090...@eksfiles.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Question for anyone out there: I just built the parasitic Lindy from the Feb 2010 QST. What kind of performance (on receive) should I expect from it during, say, an AO-51 pass (max EL 83 deg)? I had my Kenwood TH-F6a HT connected directly to it (only a few feet of RG-8X coax to the antenna) with no preamp, and I only had good copy for a moment here and there. Just wondering if I need a preamp or if I need to be suspicious of my construction. tnx 73, Dave NK0E - Edward Cole wrote: I forgot to add that these are patterned after Tony, AA2TX, designs (UHF version is in Feb. 2010 QST). My variation was to use pvc sched-40 plastic pipe (white). The preamp is one of the older DEMI designs that uses a mgf-1302 GasFet with about 0.7 dBNF. I see about one s-unit of noise when I turn it on. There is 4-feet of RG-58 to the UHF Lindy and 60-feet to the FT-847 from the preamp. The VHF Lindy has no preamp and is fed with 60-feet of RG-213. The VHF Lindy brings up repeaters 70-miles away with 50w, and the UHF Lindy hears repeaters that far away. So actually can make a nice general purpose antenna. 73, Ed ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
I can consistently copy the beacons on FO 29 and HO 68 down to the horizion using a larsen 2/70 mobile antenna with the larsen radial kit. The feed line is approx 60 feet of Belden 9913F. I typically connect the antenna to a comet duplexer to my mirage UHF amplifer which has a gasfet preamp and use my FT736 as a receiver, but the 736 can copy the beacons with the preamp switched off. I have an ARR gasfet preamp that works a bit better but is not TR switched and I usually don't bother with it. VO52 is also typically copyable down to the horizon with this setup. I haven't been on the FM sats in a while but don't recall any issues copying them either. I have been told by several people that my ears seem to do a better job than others at copying weak signals though (: - Original Message From: Bill Dzurilla billdz@yahoo.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 6:23:18 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV Dave, I would be suspicious of the construction. I can get a few minutes of good copy from AO-51 on a high pass with just a rubber duck on an HT. If you do get a preamp, the run between the antenna and the preamp is critical, so if possible keep it short and use good coax. Ed seems to be having success with 4' of RG-58U, but generally the use of any RG-58U at 70cm is not a good idea. Here's a quick summary of my results with various antennas: * HT and rubber duck or other antenna mounted directly on the HT - success only at high elevations * HT and Arrow or Elk antenna, no preamp - success from horizon to horizon, if no trees or other obstructions * base rig and dual band omnidirectional ground plane, no preamp, 40' of RG-213U - success on most birds only when elevation is above 25-35 degrees * base rig and dual band omnidirectional ground plane, ARR preamp, 40' of RG-213U - success on most birds when elevation is above 15 degrees * base rig and Elk antenna on 12' pole at 15 degrees fixed elevation, azimuth rotation with old TV antenna rotor, ARR preamp, 70' coax run (my current setup) - full success from horizon to horizon on all birds, except in directions where blocked by trees or roof. The Elk is $135 shipped and the used rotor was $25, and this combo is by far the most effective I have used. My community has antenna restrictions, but so far no one has complained about the little 2' long Elk. The Elk could be replaced with a homebrew Cheap Yagi or tape measure yagi, which can be built for $10. I am not aware of anyone who is able to work the sats at low elevations with any type of omnidirectional antenna, even with the best preamp. You can have plenty of fun working the birds at higher elevations, but you will be able to work more passes and better DX (e.g., Europe on AO-7) if you can catch them at lower elevations. 73, Bill NZ5N __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
One more update: I tried pass #744, this morning and copied a big round-table of several west-coast stations, but was unable to break in. My downlink was as loud as them, so...? I had one call to my CQ right at LOS and could not complete, sorry! Bear with me as I am getting reaquainted with running my radio on satellites ;-) My sub-VFO tuning control is not working which complicates netting with another station. So I find my signal with the Rx and then engage tracking. That tracks for a little while. The interesting thing is that I copied signals to zero-elevation. I would say that I am pleased with the new antennas. Question: what ERP are most stations using on SSB on HO-68? I am running 50w ERP. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
Yes, I agree with that, Clint. I have been looking at Jerry Brown's, K5OE, archived pages available here: http://web.archive.org/web/2824013151/http://members.aol.com/k5oe/ After looking at it, I think I like the radiation patterns of the TPM II's better than any other LEO antenna I've seen thus far. There may be better out there that I have not seen. I have worked Jerry several times with him using those antennas. I don't have a problem with large arrays where I live, but they're just overkill IMHO. I only have one large tree to the SW and with the beamwidth of 22 elements on VHF and 44 on UHF, my rotor is constantly working. 73, Joel, W4JBB On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Clint Bradford clintbradf...@mac.comwrote: ... Does it -matter- if he uses a preamp on FM, SSB, or freaking two cans and a string? Absolutely not. It has just been my mantra the past four years advising folks that you do not need 100 Watts of TX power, expensive Yagis on the roof, and a rotator under computer control to get into working the FM satellites. Now, then, if I lived in Drew's neighborhood, all that equipment sounds pretty appealing ... working the birds while adding fire to the fireplace with a hot toddy (or three) at hand. Clint, K6LCS ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- Joel Black jbblack(at)charter.net ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
Hi Ed, Regarding power used: I was running 25w (minus a few dB of coax losses) into an 8 element beam (vertically polarized), and getting an S5 return on a 2x15 circular beam, with a mediocre preamp. I forget if it was RHCP or LHCP on the downlink at the time. I don't have a power meter, but I could turn my 736R's Drive control about 3/4 of the way down before my signal got hard to hear. Maybe 5w or so? This was when the bird was about 10-12 degrees up, in a direction that has about a 5 degree usable horizon (there's a hill in that direction). Hope that helps, Greg KO6TH Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:25:10 -0900 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org From: kl...@acsalaska.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV One more update: I tried pass #744, this morning and copied a big round-table of several west-coast stations, but was unable to break in. My downlink was as loud as them, so...? I had one call to my CQ right at LOS and could not complete, sorry! Bear with me as I am getting reaquainted with running my radio on satellites ;-) My sub-VFO tuning control is not working which complicates netting with another station. So I find my signal with the Rx and then engage tracking. That tracks for a little while. The interesting thing is that I copied signals to zero-elevation. I would say that I am pleased with the new antennas. Question: what ERP are most stations using on SSB on HO-68? I am running 50w ERP. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
I read that article, and when I got to the last of it and he mentioned that he was using a pre-amp for working the FM birds, I wondered out loud: Why??? We're working '27, '50, and '51 with HTs and meager antenna improvements. Better yet, build a tape measure Yagi - you can realize great gain with about six bucks of parts. Note that I haven't mentioned, Buy a pre-amp anywhere. I was considering building one of those antennas mentioned in QST last month - until I read that he was using a pre-amp. I'll just stick with what works for me ... home-brew or commercial Yagis ... a log periodic every now and then ... and no pre-amp anywhere. Clint, K6LCS http://www.work-sat.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
Being omnidirectional, this antenna offers no gain, so preamps are, in my opinion, absolutely essential (at least on 70cm). Moreover, you need to use one that has a proven low noise factor. For practical purposes , this means SSBUSA or ARR models. By way of contrast, note the reception of AO-51 in the second half of this videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgNcCGXeRyw It's not great, but its better than you describe, and I'm doing it indoors, with a silly wire dipole made out of #12 copper wire. However, it's directly connected to a preamp, and that makes all the difference. Similarly, all the 70cm work in my videos is currently conducted with a 1/4 wave vertical connected directly to an N-connector, up about 20' in the air, followed by 10' feet of LMR400 and a good low-noise preamp. The reason I'm building the lindy is to even out the pattern compared to the vertical, which, of course, has deep nulls overhead and elsewhere in its elevation pattern. Despite that, HO-68's beacon is audible Q-5 from horizon to horizon for me even with the 1/4 wave vertical. While a preamp represents a considerable amount of money, the good news is that the improvement from a preamp applies to any sort of antenna you might use or build, at least those to which it is convenient to connect a preamp. 73, Bruce VE9QRP On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 8:26 PM, David Ek d...@eksfiles.net wrote: Question for anyone out there: I just built the parasitic Lindy from the Feb 2010 QST. What kind of performance (on receive) should I expect from it during, say, an AO-51 pass (max EL 83 deg)? I had my Kenwood TH-F6a HT connected directly to it (only a few feet of RG-8X coax to the antenna) with no preamp, and I only had good copy for a moment here and there. Just wondering if I need a preamp or if I need to be suspicious of my construction. tnx 73, Dave NK0E - Edward Cole wrote: I forgot to add that these are patterned after Tony, AA2TX, designs (UHF version is in Feb. 2010 QST). My variation was to use pvc sched-40 plastic pipe (white). The preamp is one of the older DEMI designs that uses a mgf-1302 GasFet with about 0.7 dBNF. I see about one s-unit of noise when I turn it on. There is 4-feet of RG-58 to the UHF Lindy and 60-feet to the FT-847 from the preamp. The VHF Lindy has no preamp and is fed with 60-feet of RG-213. The VHF Lindy brings up repeaters 70-miles away with 50w, and the UHF Lindy hears repeaters that far away. So actually can make a nice general purpose antenna. 73, Ed ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- http://ve9qrp.blogspot.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
Well, each to their own, obviously. I've worked the birds using the Arrow antenna and an HT, and that works okay, but I secretly dream about working them from the shack instead of sitting in the back yard, and big pointable antennas are a no-no in my neighborhood. I can get away with something more discrete, like the Lindy. 73, Dave NK0E -- Clint wrote: I read that article, and when I got to the last of it and he mentioned that he was using a pre-amp for working the FM birds, I wondered out loud: Why??? We're working '27, '50, and '51 with HTs and meager antenna improvements. Better yet, build a tape measure Yagi - you can realize great gain with about six bucks of parts. Note that I haven't mentioned, Buy a pre-amp anywhere. I was considering building one of those antennas mentioned in QST last month - until I read that he was using a pre-amp. I'll just stick with what works for me ... home-brew or commercial Yagis ... a log periodic every now and then ... and no pre-amp anywhere. Clint, K6LCS ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
... chest deep snow while 20 below ... I have read about snow. And saw a picture of it once. I was born and raised here in Southern California, where, when it reaches, oh, about about 58 F degrees, we start dying. Clint ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
... Does it -matter- if he uses a preamp on FM, SSB, or freaking two cans and a string? Absolutely not. It has just been my mantra the past four years advising folks that you do not need 100 Watts of TX power, expensive Yagis on the roof, and a rotator under computer control to get into working the FM satellites. Now, then, if I lived in Drew's neighborhood, all that equipment sounds pretty appealing ... working the birds while adding fire to the fireplace with a hot toddy (or three) at hand. Clint, K6LCS ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
At 05:13 PM 2/8/2010, Clint Bradford wrote: I read that article, and when I got to the last of it and he mentioned that he was using a pre-amp for working the FM birds, I wondered out loud: Why??? We're working '27, '50, and '51 with HTs and meager antenna improvements. Better yet, build a tape measure Yagi - you can realize great gain with about six bucks of parts. Note that I haven't mentioned, Buy a pre-amp anywhere. I was considering building one of those antennas mentioned in QST last month - until I read that he was using a pre-amp. I'll just stick with what works for me ... home-brew or commercial Yagis ... a log periodic every now and then ... and no pre-amp anywhere. Clint, K6LCS http://www.work-sat.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb I am the original author of the referenced e-mail. I hope you noted that I am in Alaska, where it is not exactly nice wx in winter. I have a complete super tracking system of yagis that I used on AO-10/AO-40, but I thought ii would be nice to have a simple non-tracking antenna system for the easy sats. The preamp makes the UHF Lindy work nearly equal with the high-price stuff...and much simpler. The good news is that the Lindys work. They are not hard to make. They are as cheap as an Arrow. I believe it is equal or better than the M2 eggbeaters (and $400 cheaper). I paid $30 for my used DEMI preamp. It is equal to SSB or ARR preamps (new costs in between these two). ...and I do not have to stand outside at 10F to work the satellites ;-) And I would guess that you note in my signature line that I do some other stuff in ham radio. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: New Lindy's QRV
Enjoyed your webpage, Ed. Probably going to take down the AO-10 antennas here and put up something much simpler such as your Lindenblads or a couple of TPM's. The AO-10 setup is way overkill for what is up there and I'd rather use my tower for something other than satellites. Good luck with your antennas. 73, Joel, W4JBB On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Edward Cole kl...@acsalaska.net wrote: Just a note that I copied HO-68 beacon yesterday on my new Lindenblad antennas. I have updated the webpage: http://www.kl7uw.com/LBant.htm I am only running mode-VU with the Lindys because the UHF antenna has a preamp and the VHF one does not. My directional satellite array is not quite QRV; needs cables connected in shack. They have full capability for modes; VU, UV, US, VS, LU, LS So I will not be on AO-7, VO-52, or FO-29 quite yet. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com 500-KHz/CW, 144-MHz EME, 1296-MHz EME DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- Joel Black jbblack(at)charter.net ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
