[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance (Mobile Operation)

[Bruce Robertson]

On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Bob Bruninga  wrote:
>> I found a trunk mounted 2 meter half wave
>>(dual bander) to work well when the satellite
>> was behind me, but not at all overhead...
>> I currently have a 2 meter quarter wave
>> (dual bander) mounted... into the center
>> of the roof. It works in all directions...
>
> Any "gain" antenna on a car is not good for satellites.  Because by 
> definition, "gain" in a mobile means "gain" on the horizon where mobiles need 
> it, and this means LOSS everywhere else.  The better the antenna is for 
> "mobile" the worse it is for satelliites.  (basic law of physics)..
>
> Eevn the "dual bander" 2 meter 1/4 wave has a decopuling loop for UHF, to 
> keep the angle of UHF radition low on the horizon, because without it, the 
> 1/4 2m whip is a 3/4 UHF whip and results in gain ABOVE 25 degrees which is 
> BAD for terrestrial work (but GOOD by 2 dB or mnore for satellites).
>
> So, when we say a 19.5" 1/4 wave 2m whip for mobile satellite, then that is 
> all it is.  No matching, no coils for UHF, no nothing.  Just a 19.5" vertical 
> whip.  BUT for satellites, this 19.5" whip is also a 3/4 wave UHF whip which 
> has almost 7 dBi of gain ABOVE 25 degrees which is where it really yields 
> solid performance for LEO satellites when above 25 degrees.
>
> A 5/8 wave 2m whip has a NULL at 15 degrees and so it is useless for 
> satellites.  They are too far away below 10 degrees to hear, and then there 
> is the null up to say 45 degrees.  And above that the satellite is only in 
> view for 2 minutes or less!  AND this antenna cannot be used on UHF at all.
>
> So that is why the 19.5" vertical in the middle of the roof is the best for 
> mobile satllite (and not all that hot for terrestrial... but useable, since 
> repeaters are a lot closer).
>
> See details about 75% down this page:
>
> www.aprs.org/astars.html
>
> Good luck.
> Bob, Wb4APR

I'll take this opportunity to expand on Bob's advice. I think it is
spot-on for data reception. I'm using poorly-constructed 1/4 wave
antennas just for fun, and I note that I cannot get good 1200 baud
downlink from them off of cubesats: it seems that there's just not
anywhere where the gain vs. path loss curves match nicely. It's my
guess that by pushing the gain up above 20 degrees, where the pass
loss is diminished, I would have telemetry decoded nicely.

On the other hand, if you want to listen for DX on, say, VO-52 or
FO-29, or download CW telemetry, you might consider a fixed antenna
with a lower azimuth peak gain. With a 1/4 wave antenna and clear view
to most horizons, I can hear some good signals down around 10-20
degrees, and since many passes occur in that range, it is a fun place
to have some gain. (And LEO satellite operations are great for
experiments confirming the 3-d plots of standard antenna designs!)

Survey question: who has been able to download 9600 baud telemetry
with a fixed antenna, and what design was used?

73, Bruce
VE9QRP

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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance MM

[Gordon JC Pearce]

On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 07:04 -0700, MM wrote:

> You will need to Pick your orbits in advance.  I would usually only
> attempt orbits that were 45 degrees elevation or better from my Car.

Bah.  Must be nice to live so far south.

I've only ever heard ISS on voice once, and that was Richard Garriot
talking to a school in the south of England.

Gordon MM3YEQ

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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance (Mobile Operation)

[Bob Bruninga]

> I found a trunk mounted 2 meter half wave
>(dual bander) to work well when the satellite 
> was behind me, but not at all overhead...
> I currently have a 2 meter quarter wave 
> (dual bander) mounted... into the center 
> of the roof. It works in all directions...

Any "gain" antenna on a car is not good for satellites.  Because by definition, 
"gain" in a mobile means "gain" on the horizon where mobiles need it, and this 
means LOSS everywhere else.  The better the antenna is for "mobile" the worse 
it is for satelliites.  (basic law of physics)..

Eevn the "dual bander" 2 meter 1/4 wave has a decopuling loop for UHF, to keep 
the angle of UHF radition low on the horizon, because without it, the 1/4 2m 
whip is a 3/4 UHF whip and results in gain ABOVE 25 degrees which is BAD for 
terrestrial work (but GOOD by 2 dB or mnore for satellites).

So, when we say a 19.5" 1/4 wave 2m whip for mobile satellite, then that is all 
it is.  No matching, no coils for UHF, no nothing.  Just a 19.5" vertical whip. 
 BUT for satellites, this 19.5" whip is also a 3/4 wave UHF whip which has 
almost 7 dBi of gain ABOVE 25 degrees which is where it really yields solid 
performance for LEO satellites when above 25 degrees.

A 5/8 wave 2m whip has a NULL at 15 degrees and so it is useless for 
satellites.  They are too far away below 10 degrees to hear, and then there is 
the null up to say 45 degrees.  And above that the satellite is only in view 
for 2 minutes or less!  AND this antenna cannot be used on UHF at all.

So that is why the 19.5" vertical in the middle of the roof is the best for 
mobile satllite (and not all that hot for terrestrial... but useable, since 
repeaters are a lot closer).

See details about 75% down this page:

www.aprs.org/astars.html

Good luck.
Bob, Wb4APR
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance MM

[MM]

Let’s split your question into two parts
Car and House:

I have made literally hundreds of FM voice contacts with Mir and ISS from my 
car.  I have also made  hundreds of packet mail contacts with Mir.
On Mir the  default power setting was 5 watts, into a Larsen Dual band Mobile 
antenna, mounted outside on the hull of Mir.  The transceiver was either a 
Kenwood TM-733 or TM-V7A.

My car station was typically a 5/8 wave mono band 2-meter vertical, with a 45 
watt class FM rig.  I usually did not have the amps in the car since mobile 
amps are typically high maintenance.

ISS is running a similar setup.  The transceiver is a Kenwood TM-D700, modified 
for three power settings, 5,10,25 (special mods).  The ISS D700 has been 
programmed to default to 10 watts for voice and packet, unless changed by the 
crew, however every time the crew pushes a PM/function button, it forces the 
radio back to 10 watts.
The antenna is a Quad band system with 2, 440, patch for 1.2-2.4 Ghz.  Gain is 
unknown, and must be assumed to be –3dBd for 2 meters.

So for beginners,  LEO satellites, Running simple verticals and a 45+ watt 
class system and 0 dBd gain antennas is a good way to start from your car 
(parked or driving).
You will need to Pick your orbits in advance.  I would usually only attempt 
orbits that were 45 degrees elevation or better from my Car.

For the more advances mobile users, try this Mobile EME array.
http://www.garysicecream.com/may909.htm

Other Car Tips:

Convert from RG-58 to LMR-240-UF or RG-213.  The coax that usually comes with 
stock mobile antennas is too poor of quality to be used seriously.

Run Mono-band antennas for 2 and 440, get the highest Gain mono band (whip) 
antennas that will fit your mobile and garage.  You may need a signal splitter 
since most rigs only have one SO-239 for 2/440.  

Amps for your Car:
Get best antennas and coax first before using amps.  In some States, we are 
limited to 50 watts on 440.
 
House Satellite Antennas:

It’s ok to start with a few simpler verticals  or small beams to see if  you 
like the satellite hobby.
If you do like Satellites and want to continue then you have two choices.

#1 Gradually build your antenna gain over several years, 
1 Element 0 dBd
2 Elements 3dBd
4 Elements 6dBd
8 Elements 9 dBd
etc.
or
#2 you can jump in and buy a one of the 20+ element CP (circular polarized) 
12-dBd class beams.
In many cases it maybe cheaper to go from 0 dBd to 12 dBd than buying lots of 
little antennas in-between.  A CP style antenna system can be used for both 
Satellite and terrestrial DX.




Other Tips:
Go with the most elements you can afford for a single boom.
20+ elements on 2-meters
40+ elements on 440

Coax:
You can now get Flexible thick coax that will support an antenna Rotor.
Most people used RG-8 style coax, which is approximately 10 mm in diameter.
However you can now get flexible rotor grade coax which is approximately 15 mm 
in diameter, and has much lower loss than the best RG-8 style coax.

Example:
Belden RG-213
145 MHz 2.5 dB loss per 100 feet
438 MHz 4.5 dB loss per 100 feet

LMR 600 UltraFlex Rotor cable
145 MHz 1.1 dB loss per 100 feet
438 MHz 2.0 dB loss per 100 feet


As you can see, by switching from 10mm coax to 15mm coax you can reduce you 
loss by over 50%. The 15mm cables cost 2-3 times as much, however you will not 
have to worry about coax losses any more on Frequencies below 2 gig.

73 wf1f



--- On Fri, 5/29/09, Eric Fort  wrote:

> From: Eric Fort 
> Subject: [amsat-bb]  eggbeater rx performance
> To: "Amsat BB" 
> Date: Friday, May 29, 2009, 9:17 PM
> I/m interested in the possibility of
> using oscars 27, 29, 50, 51, and 52
> without using rotors or directional antennas and maybe
> while mobile.  Uplink
> seems not to be a problem as one can always QRO to a level
> where the
> satellite sees an apropriate signal level that is enough
> but without robing
> power from other transponder users.  On recieve though
> you still gotta be
> able to hear 'em to work 'em.  Is an eggbeater and a
> preamp enough to hear
> decently or is there another (better) way?  Is working
> mobile and/or without
> directional antennas even practical?  what's the best
> way to do it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eric
> AF6EP
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance (Mobile Operation)

[Gary "Joe" Mayfield]

I have operated while driving.  I found a trunk mounted 2 meter half wave
(dual bander) to work well when the satellite was behind me, but not at all
overhead or in front of the car (makes sense).  I currently have a 2 meter
quarter wave (dual bander) mounted by drilling into the center of the roof.
It works in all directions (again makes sense).

I have always operated full duplex, usually with a headset mic, but
sometimes without.  The following radios have worked for me.

Yaesu FT-4700 -- The first radio I did it with.
Icom IC-2340 -- Worked okay
Icom IC-2720 -- Worked great (One side hears better than the other) the
radio has "other" issues
Yaesu FT-8900 -- Works very well

Mode B is vastly superior to mode J for mobile operation.  AO-21 and SO-35
rocked beyond belief!

73,
Joe kk0sd



-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Lunday
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:11 PM
To: eric.f...@gmail.com
Cc: 'Amsat BB'
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

Good question.  With Arrow/Elk, it is directional.  Good gain but not omni.
With whip it is omni, but reduced gain.  

 

Don't know of anyone who operated while driving, so I cannot help you with
that one.  Maybe eggbeater is the way to go.

 

 

Mark Lunday

WD4ELG

 <mailto:wd4...@arrl.net> wd4...@arrl.net

 <http://wd4elg.net> http://wd4elg.net

 

From: Eric Fort [mailto:eric.f...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:18 PM
To: Mark Lunday
Cc: Amsat BB
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] eggbeater rx performance

 

I have an arrow.  It's just sorta difficult to point when in motion.  Is the
pattern from a standard mobile whip really enough considering polorization
and radiation angle or would something else be more effective?  I'm looking
to move from working portable to truly mobile.

Eric 
AF6EP

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Mark Lunday  wrote:

Eric

Couple of thoughts for you:


No need for QRO, in my opinion.  You can solve it all with a good antenna
setup.

Regarding antennas...nothing against eggbeaters, but you can accomplish
everything with a simple antenna setup, including mobile:  Look for Elk
antennas and Arrow antennas, hand held and directional.  Lots of great
success w/o anything other than 5 watts and one of those antennas.  Ask
WD9EWK and N3TL, who have proven this over and over.



Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.net




 

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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Clint Bradford]

I set up my M2 EggBeater on a mast and rotator for shows and  
conventions ... I call it my Souffle' Antenna.

(rim shot)

Clint Bradford, K6LCS
http://www.clintbradford.com
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Greg D.]

Hi Tim,

Actually I think we do agree on this.  That some, when things align, can work 
satellite with an HT and a whip antenna, tells me that working satellite while 
mobile with a groundplane antenna and a preamp is possible, if not occasionally 
likely.  It certainly won't be as reliable or smooth as the local repeater, but 
then those same some people would offer that the local repeater is not as much 
fun either.

One might also suggest that the only thing more exciting than working satellite 
while mobile, is driving fast enough to require re-doing the Doppler shift 
calculation...  :-)

Greg  KO6TH


From: n...@bellsouth.net
To: ko6th_g...@hotmail.com; mlun...@nc.rr.com; eric.f...@gmail.com
CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 04:54:46 +









Greg and all,
 
I must respectfully disagree - unless we have different definitions of what 
constitutes a fair signal. The carious satellite-description pages on the AMSAT 
Web site include information about transmit power for all of the satellites. 
All of them except AO-7 are transmitting nominally at power levels less than 1 
watt.
 
If anyone following this thread remembers the special operating mode the ISS 
repeater was in during December, for the 25th anniverary, you may recall that 
ARISS announed it would be a "low power" operation, which I believe meant 5 
watts out. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that. Even at 5 watts, the 
ISS, was so strong one almost didn't have to Doppler-tune for the downlink, and 
it was on UHF! For the special operating period, they put the repeater in Mode 
J instead of the usual Mode B.
 
My point is that the ISS, which is in an orbit quite a bit lower than our 
satellites, was transmitting with more than 5 times the power of our FM and 
most of the linear satellites. My experience with mobile operation has been 
that I do best with AO-27 and SO-50. Both of them use 0-gain, quarter-wave 
verticals mounted on one corner of the satellite.My vertical likes their 
verticals ... hihi.
 
Dave is right about the quadrafiliars, by the way - I just saw his post come in 
as I was typing this. Contact Allen, N5AFV, who has picked up one of the 
Antennas US quadrafiliars, and he's using it mobile with pretty good success.
 
Eric, if you're interested in truly mobile operation, your decision will 
involve a compromise. You will not get the same "coverage" during a pass that 
you get with either the Arrow or the Elk when you are parked and pointing. Your 
"operating window" will be more narrow. But it's definitely do-able. I was 
shocked to work Craig, KL4E, in Anchorage a couple weeks ago from southwest 
Missouri. We worked on AO-27, and I was using my Yaesu VX-7R HT and an MFJ 1729 
dual-band mag mount. That pass was a maximum elevation of 16 degrees to my 
location, which was just east of Seymour, Mo., along the side of U.S. 60 on a 
county road. I had about a minute of readable copy, and I was in a location 
with a "look" toward the satellite that was flatter and more unobstructed than 
what I routinely deal with at home. If I'd gotten to that spot in time to 
assemble the Elk, I would have been able to work from at least 3 degrees 
elevation coming up to 3 degrees going down. That's my nominal AOS/LOS cutoff 
with the handheld Elk. Using the Elk would've given me several minutes of the 
pass, instead of just 1 on the vertical. That's where the compromise of an omni 
directional antenna comes in.
 
Whichever way you go, have fun with it!
 
Thanks, Mark, for the kind words about the operating Patrick and I are doing 
with our portable stations. It far exceeds anything I expected.
 
73 to all,
 
Tim - N3TL
Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
-- Original message from "Greg D." : 
-- 


> Many years ago I worked the MIR space station while driving to work. I was 
> headed West on I-80, and MIR had just come up on the horizon. Admittedly it 
> had a lot higher power, and a lower orbit, but he was full quieting on FM 
> into my Larsen 2/70 glass mount. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a 
> fair signal 
> with a whip antenna and a good preamp running SSB on FO-29. 
> I'm not going to encourage anyone to operate CW while driving! Even for SSB, 
> get your rig hooked up to a small laptop with automatic doppler tracking, and 
> set it up before departing, or you might just shift yourself off the road and 
> into a tree. That might damage the rig. 
> 
> Greg KO6TH 
> 
> 
> > From: mlun...@nc.rr.com 
> > To: eric.f...@gmail.com 
> > Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 00:10:32 -0400 
> > CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org 
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance 
> > 
> > Good question. With Arrow/Elk, it is directional. Good gain but not

[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Art McBride]

Eric,
A Quadrifilar Helix antenna will meet your needs, and if you choose 1
wavelength, 1 turn design you will have a greater gain at the horizon than
at the zenith which is what you need to compensate for the change in
satellite distance to the observer over the entire pass. 
It is also circular giving excellent rejection to ground and building
reflections that cause QSB. The designs were developed by C.C. Kilgus MSEE
in the mid to late 60's. Designs vary from 1/4 Wave, 1/4 turn to 1 wave
length, 1 turn. His work was published in the December 1970 Microwave
Journal beginning on Pg 49. 

Art,
KC6UQH  

-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Eric Fort
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 6:17 PM
To: Amsat BB
Subject: [amsat-bb] eggbeater rx performance

I/m interested in the possibility of using oscars 27, 29, 50, 51, and 52
without using rotors or directional antennas and maybe while mobile.  Uplink
seems not to be a problem as one can always QRO to a level where the
satellite sees an apropriate signal level that is enough but without robing
power from other transponder users.  On recieve though you still gotta be
able to hear 'em to work 'em.  Is an eggbeater and a preamp enough to hear
decently or is there another (better) way?  Is working mobile and/or without
directional antennas even practical?  what's the best way to do it?

Thanks,

Eric
AF6EP
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[n3tl]

Greg and all,

I must respectfully disagree - unless we have different definitions of what 
constitutes a fair signal. The carious satellite-description pages on the AMSAT 
Web site include information about transmit power for all of the satellites. 
All of them except AO-7 are transmitting nominally at power levels less than 1 
watt.

If anyone following this thread remembers the special operating mode the ISS 
repeater was in during December, for the 25th anniverary, you may recall that 
ARISS announed it would be a "low power" operation, which I believe meant 5 
watts out. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong about that. Even at 5 watts, the 
ISS, was so strong one almost didn't have to Doppler-tune for the downlink, and 
it was on UHF! For the special operating period, they put the repeater in Mode 
J instead of the usual Mode B.

My point is that the ISS, which is in an orbit quite a bit lower than our 
satellites, was transmitting with more than 5 times the power of our FM and 
most of the linear satellites. My experience with mobile operation has been 
that I do best with AO-27 and SO-50. Both of them use 0-gain, quarter-wave 
verticals mounted on one corner of the satellite.My vertical likes their 
verticals ... hihi.

Dave is right about the quadrafiliars, by the way - I just saw his post come in 
as I was typing this. Contact Allen, N5AFV, who has picked up one of the 
Antennas US quadrafiliars, and he's using it mobile with pretty good success.

Eric, if you're interested in truly mobile operation, your decision will 
involve a compromise. You will not get the same "coverage" during a pass that 
you get with either the Arrow or the Elk when you are parked and pointing. Your 
"operating window" will be more narrow. But it's definitely do-able. I was 
shocked to work Craig, KL4E, in Anchorage a couple weeks ago from southwest 
Missouri. We worked on AO-27, and I was using my Yaesu VX-7R HT and an MFJ 1729 
dual-band mag mount. That pass was a maximum elevation of 16 degrees to my 
location, which was just east of Seymour, Mo., along the side of U.S. 60 on a 
county road. I had about a minute of readable copy, and I was in a location 
with a "look" toward the satellite that was flatter and more unobstructed than 
what I routinely deal with at home. If I'd gotten to that spot in time to 
assemble the Elk, I would have been able to work from at least 3 degrees 
elevation coming up to 3 degrees going down. That's my nominal AOS/LOS cutoff 
with the handheld Elk. Using the Elk would've given me several minutes of the 
pass, instead of just 1 on the vertical. That's where the compromise of an omni 
directional antenna comes in.

Whichever way you go, have fun with it!

Thanks, Mark, for the kind words about the operating Patrick and I are doing 
with our portable stations. It far exceeds anything I expected.

73 to all,

Tim - N3TL
Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
-- Original message from "Greg D." : 
-- 


> Many years ago I worked the MIR space station while driving to work. I was 
> headed West on I-80, and MIR had just come up on the horizon. Admittedly it 
> had a lot higher power, and a lower orbit, but he was full quieting on FM 
> into my Larsen 2/70 glass mount. I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a 
> fair signal 
> with a whip antenna and a good preamp running SSB on FO-29. 
> I'm not going to encourage anyone to operate CW while driving! Even for SSB, 
> get your rig hooked up to a small laptop with automatic doppler tracking, and 
> set it up before departing, or you might just shift yourself off the road and 
> into a tree. That might damage the rig. 
> 
> Greg KO6TH 
> 
> 
> > From: mlun...@nc.rr.com 
> > To: eric.f...@gmail.com 
> > Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 00:10:32 -0400 
> > CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org 
> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance 
> > 
> > Good question. With Arrow/Elk, it is directional. Good gain but not omni. 
> > With whip it is omni, but reduced gain. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Don't know of anyone who operated while driving, so I cannot help you with 
> > that one. Maybe eggbeater is the way to go. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Mark Lunday 
> > 
> > WD4ELG 
> > 
> 
> _ 
> Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. 
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St
>  
> orage1_052009 
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Dave Guimont]

>I/m interested in the possibility of using oscars 27, 29, 50, 51, and 52
>without using rotors or directional antennas and maybe while mobile.  Uplink
>seems not to be a problem as one can always QRO to a level where the
>satellite sees an apropriate signal level that is enough but without robing
>power from other transponder users.  On recieve though you still gotta be
>able to hear 'em to work 'em.  Is an eggbeater and a preamp enough to hear
>decently or is there another (better) way?  Is working mobile and/or without
>directional antennas even practical?  what's the best way to do it?

Eric,
Go to:

http://tinyurl.com/wb6lloOscar

And try the quadrifilars...You wont get much at low ELs, but on a 
decent pass you will copy...use low loss coax, and good N connectors.

See the folder Antennaevaluation for some testing we've done..






73, Dave, WB6LLO
dguim...@san.rr.com

Disagree: I learn

   Pulling for P3E... 

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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Greg D.]

Many years ago I worked the MIR space station while driving to work.  I was 
headed West on I-80, and MIR had just come up on the horizon.  Admittedly it 
had a lot higher power, and a lower orbit, but he was full quieting on FM into 
my Larsen 2/70 glass mount.  I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a fair 
signal with a whip antenna and a good preamp running SSB on FO-29.

I'm not going to encourage anyone to operate CW while driving!  Even for SSB, 
get your rig hooked up to a small laptop with automatic doppler tracking, and 
set it up before departing, or you might just shift yourself off the road and 
into a tree.  That might damage the rig.

Greg  KO6TH


> From: mlun...@nc.rr.com
> To: eric.f...@gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 00:10:32 -0400
> CC: amsat-bb@amsat.org
> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance
> 
> Good question.  With Arrow/Elk, it is directional.  Good gain but not omni.
> With whip it is omni, but reduced gain.  
> 
>  
> 
> Don't know of anyone who operated while driving, so I cannot help you with
> that one.  Maybe eggbeater is the way to go.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Mark Lunday
> 
> WD4ELG
> 

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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[w7lrd]

Just about everyone I know that started out with eggbeaters now has directional 
antennas. 

73 Bob W7LRD 



- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Fort"  
To: "Amsat BB"  
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 6:17:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: [amsat-bb]  eggbeater rx performance 

I/m interested in the possibility of using oscars 27, 29, 50, 51, and 52 
without using rotors or directional antennas and maybe while mobile.  Uplink 
seems not to be a problem as one can always QRO to a level where the 
satellite sees an apropriate signal level that is enough but without robing 
power from other transponder users.  On recieve though you still gotta be 
able to hear 'em to work 'em.  Is an eggbeater and a preamp enough to hear 
decently or is there another (better) way?  Is working mobile and/or without 
directional antennas even practical?  what's the best way to do it? 

Thanks, 

Eric 
AF6EP 
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Mark Lunday]

Good question.  With Arrow/Elk, it is directional.  Good gain but not omni.
With whip it is omni, but reduced gain.  

 

Don't know of anyone who operated while driving, so I cannot help you with
that one.  Maybe eggbeater is the way to go.

 

 

Mark Lunday

WD4ELG

  wd4...@arrl.net

  http://wd4elg.net

 

From: Eric Fort [mailto:eric.f...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:18 PM
To: Mark Lunday
Cc: Amsat BB
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] eggbeater rx performance

 

I have an arrow.  It's just sorta difficult to point when in motion.  Is the
pattern from a standard mobile whip really enough considering polorization
and radiation angle or would something else be more effective?  I'm looking
to move from working portable to truly mobile.

Eric 
AF6EP

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Mark Lunday  wrote:

Eric

Couple of thoughts for you:


No need for QRO, in my opinion.  You can solve it all with a good antenna
setup.

Regarding antennas...nothing against eggbeaters, but you can accomplish
everything with a simple antenna setup, including mobile:  Look for Elk
antennas and Arrow antennas, hand held and directional.  Lots of great
success w/o anything other than 5 watts and one of those antennas.  Ask
WD9EWK and N3TL, who have proven this over and over.



Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.net




 

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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Mark Lunday]

Steve

I took a shovel handle, a Radio Shack el cheapo rotor, some electrical tape,
and taped an Elk to the shovel handle in the attic.  30 degrees fixed
elevation.  Rotate within 30 degrees azimuth during the pass.  Works like a
charm.


Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.net


-Original Message-
From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Bluemel
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:17 PM
To: eric.f...@gmail.com; AMSAT-BB@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

Hey Eric,

I aggree with the comments on the hand held antenna. I use the Elk
exclusively at this point but would like to find a base antenna option. I
cannot use beams of rotored antennas as I just don't have the real estate. 

I have met folks on this board who totaly believe in eggbeaters, but I
cannot afford to buy one only to learn that it didn't meet expectations. I
have been building some, but haven't quite worked it out yet. 

I have built a turnstyle for 440 with an AAR preamp. It isn't great, but it
shows some promise. 

I will follow this thread and hope we both find our solutions

73!  Steve. KI6OQU
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-Original Message-
From: Eric Fort 

Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 18:17:17 
To: Amsat BB
Subject: [amsat-bb]  eggbeater rx performance


I/m interested in the possibility of using oscars 27, 29, 50, 51, and 52
without using rotors or directional antennas and maybe while mobile.  Uplink
seems not to be a problem as one can always QRO to a level where the
satellite sees an apropriate signal level that is enough but without robing
power from other transponder users.  On recieve though you still gotta be
able to hear 'em to work 'em.  Is an eggbeater and a preamp enough to hear
decently or is there another (better) way?  Is working mobile and/or without
directional antennas even practical?  what's the best way to do it?

Thanks,

Eric
AF6EP
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Eric Fort]

I have an arrow.  It's just sorta difficult to point when in motion.  Is the
pattern from a standard mobile whip really enough considering polorization
and radiation angle or would something else be more effective?  I'm looking
to move from working portable to truly mobile.

Eric
AF6EP

On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Mark Lunday  wrote:

> Eric
>
> Couple of thoughts for you:
>
>
> No need for QRO, in my opinion.  You can solve it all with a good antenna
> setup.
>
> Regarding antennas...nothing against eggbeaters, but you can accomplish
> everything with a simple antenna setup, including mobile:  Look for Elk
> antennas and Arrow antennas, hand held and directional.  Lots of great
> success w/o anything other than 5 watts and one of those antennas.  Ask
> WD9EWK and N3TL, who have proven this over and over.
>
>
>
> Mark Lunday
> WD4ELG
> wd4...@arrl.net
> http://wd4elg.net
>
>
>
>
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Steve Bluemel]

Hey Eric,

I aggree with the comments on the hand held antenna. I use the Elk exclusively 
at this point but would like to find a base antenna option. I cannot use beams 
of rotored antennas as I just don't have the real estate. 

I have met folks on this board who totaly believe in eggbeaters, but I cannot 
afford to buy one only to learn that it didn't meet expectations. I have been 
building some, but haven't quite worked it out yet. 

I have built a turnstyle for 440 with an AAR preamp. It isn't great, but it 
shows some promise. 

I will follow this thread and hope we both find our solutions

73!  Steve. KI6OQU
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-Original Message-
From: Eric Fort 

Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 18:17:17 
To: Amsat BB
Subject: [amsat-bb]  eggbeater rx performance


I/m interested in the possibility of using oscars 27, 29, 50, 51, and 52
without using rotors or directional antennas and maybe while mobile.  Uplink
seems not to be a problem as one can always QRO to a level where the
satellite sees an apropriate signal level that is enough but without robing
power from other transponder users.  On recieve though you still gotta be
able to hear 'em to work 'em.  Is an eggbeater and a preamp enough to hear
decently or is there another (better) way?  Is working mobile and/or without
directional antennas even practical?  what's the best way to do it?

Thanks,

Eric
AF6EP
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[amsat-bb] Re: eggbeater rx performance

[Mark Lunday]

Eric

Couple of thoughts for you:


No need for QRO, in my opinion.  You can solve it all with a good antenna
setup.

Regarding antennas...nothing against eggbeaters, but you can accomplish
everything with a simple antenna setup, including mobile:  Look for Elk
antennas and Arrow antennas, hand held and directional.  Lots of great
success w/o anything other than 5 watts and one of those antennas.  Ask
WD9EWK and N3TL, who have proven this over and over.



Mark Lunday
WD4ELG
wd4...@arrl.net
http://wd4elg.net



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