[amsat-bb] Re: so long
If you can call having the bird languishing in storage waiting for a launch opportunity that will never come active. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 9/19/2013 10:30 PM, John Stephensen wrote: AMSAT-NA abandoned the Eagle project years ago. Only AMSAT-DL has an active HEO project. with P3E. 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: Michael mat...@charter.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 21:06 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long I said this a couple of weeks back but since reading all the responses in this thread, I think I'll say it again. I'm almost fifty one years old. I highly doubt that I will ever see an HEO bird launched in my remaining lifetime. The economic realities of this day and time make the possibility of a launch extremely remote and I don't see that changing in the near future. I can't understand why AMSAT continues to string people along with promises of maybe someday if you donate. Why can't they just be upfront about it and tell people, Hey it aint going to happen. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the new direction AMSAT has taken in pursuing cubesat technology and launches, I applaud them for it but the continued lip service to the we want an HEO crowd gets old. I for one am not that gullible. Quit telling people what they want to hear and tell them the truth. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 9/17/2013 7:02 PM, i8cvs wrote: - Original Message - From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John Hi John,W0JAB I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed his policy with only FM satellites. I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called the satellites for all and I invested a lot of money for equipments and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near future. In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and it was very nice until lasted. As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two ways communications between continents was not a satisfactory task. Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: So Long
Is it possible to carry P3E? numerous test launch use dummy mass why not launching one bigger satellite instead of a bunch of small one? The Cygnus launch only goes to LEO, I thought you wanted a higher orbit for P3E. The Cubesats that were deployed on the test launch only stayed up for a week before reentering. Also, integrating a large and complex satellite with a propulsion system is probably adding too many complications to a program that is under immense pressure not to screw up the first launch. Inert aluminum proof mass cylinders are much easier to integrate into the launch vehicle. Getting up to $250,000 on Kickstarter may just about be feasible, enough for a 3U CubeSat in a low 700 km orbit, but I'd suggest larger amounts are out of the question. You don't need Kickstarter, just call Martha or donate online. AMSAT was doing crowd sourcing decades before it became cool. Also, would you guys PLEASE LEARN TO TRIM YOUR EMAIL when you hit reply, there is no need to quote and rebroadcast the entire days amsat-bb digest when you want to reply to a message. Dan Schultz N8FGV ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
The truth is that from a monetary standpoint a 3U cubesat to HEO is likely in the realm of being affordable. However, the technology available at this time does not allow us to reliably make a HEO 3U cubesat but that doesn't mean that years down the road we will get to that point. Look at computers, they used to be the size of rooms now a computer much faster than some of the first supercomputers fits in your pocket. *This of course assumes that the launch industry remains the same with the use of expendable vehicles.* The launch industry at the moment is like buying a plane ticket and when you get to your destination you scrap the airplane. It's wasteful and costly. Vertical takeoff and vertical landing technology is on the fringe of happening with companies like SpaceX (Disclaimer, I can't speak for SpaceX this is personal opinion). Check out the Grasshopper divert videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t15vP1PyoAwhich shows the Grasshopper test platform horizontally moving during flight. The end goal is to land all stages of Falcon 9 back on landhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSF81yjVbJE, minimal refurbishment, refueling, and launch. Fuel costs are negligible compared to the vehicle costs. While many near billion dollar satellites may not mind spending a few hundred million dollars on a launch and forgo a used vehicle (until reliability is proven) organizations like AMSAT would likely jump on an opportunity of a low cost used rocket :D. Low cost launches on reusable rockets will ideally be happening well within your lifetime :D Bryce KB1LQC On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 2:06 PM, Michael mat...@charter.net wrote: I said this a couple of weeks back but since reading all the responses in this thread, I think I'll say it again. I'm almost fifty one years old. I highly doubt that I will ever see an HEO bird launched in my remaining lifetime. The economic realities of this day and time make the possibility of a launch extremely remote and I don't see that changing in the near future. I can't understand why AMSAT continues to string people along with promises of maybe someday if you donate. Why can't they just be upfront about it and tell people, Hey it aint going to happen. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the new direction AMSAT has taken in pursuing cubesat technology and launches, I applaud them for it but the continued lip service to the we want an HEO crowd gets old. I for one am not that gullible. Quit telling people what they want to hear and tell them the truth. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 9/17/2013 7:02 PM, i8cvs wrote: - Original Message - From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John Hi John,W0JAB I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed his policy with only FM satellites. I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called the satellites for all and I invested a lot of money for equipments and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near future. In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and it was very nice until lasted. As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two ways communications between continents was not a satisfactory task. Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico __**_ __**_ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings:
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
Hi Michael, I think you are being pessimistic..I have done quite a few more orbits around the sun than you but I expect that I will see another AMSAT supported HEO/GTO (or similar) spacecraft launched in my lifetime. Probably more than one! I have no particular inside knowledge just an understanding that almost everything moves along in cycles rather than in linear progressions 73 Graham G3VZV -Original Message- From: Michael Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:06 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long I said this a couple of weeks back but since reading all the responses in this thread, I think I'll say it again. I'm almost fifty one years old. I highly doubt that I will ever see an HEO bird launched in my remaining lifetime. The economic realities of this day and time make the possibility of a launch extremely remote and I don't see that changing in the near future. I can't understand why AMSAT continues to string people along with promises of maybe someday if you donate. Why can't they just be upfront about it and tell people, Hey it aint going to happen. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the new direction AMSAT has taken in pursuing cubesat technology and launches, I applaud them for it but the continued lip service to the we want an HEO crowd gets old. I for one am not that gullible. Quit telling people what they want to hear and tell them the truth. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 9/17/2013 7:02 PM, i8cvs wrote: - Original Message - From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John Hi John,W0JAB I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed his policy with only FM satellites. I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called the satellites for all and I invested a lot of money for equipments and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near future. In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and it was very nice until lasted. As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two ways communications between continents was not a satisfactory task. Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico ___ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
AMSAT-NA abandoned the Eagle project years ago. Only AMSAT-DL has an active HEO project. with P3E. 73, John KD6OZH - Original Message - From: Michael mat...@charter.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 21:06 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long I said this a couple of weeks back but since reading all the responses in this thread, I think I'll say it again. I'm almost fifty one years old. I highly doubt that I will ever see an HEO bird launched in my remaining lifetime. The economic realities of this day and time make the possibility of a launch extremely remote and I don't see that changing in the near future. I can't understand why AMSAT continues to string people along with promises of maybe someday if you donate. Why can't they just be upfront about it and tell people, Hey it aint going to happen. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the new direction AMSAT has taken in pursuing cubesat technology and launches, I applaud them for it but the continued lip service to the we want an HEO crowd gets old. I for one am not that gullible. Quit telling people what they want to hear and tell them the truth. 73, Michael, W4HIJ On 9/17/2013 7:02 PM, i8cvs wrote: - Original Message - From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John Hi John,W0JAB I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed his policy with only FM satellites. I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called the satellites for all and I invested a lot of money for equipments and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near future. In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and it was very nice until lasted. As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two ways communications between continents was not a satisfactory task. Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico ___ ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long, try EME
EME is a good replacement (JT65) There are no borders. There is no politics (no one owns the Moon). There are no Satellite managers to control which mode is enabled or disabled. No person can hog the whole repeater. The Moon is usable 2+ weeks contiguous per month. In most countries you can run your countries legal limit. It’s much further away and thus a greater challenge. You do not need to join a club. And the list goes on. From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 2:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
On 17 Sep 2013 at 13:58, John Becker wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb For the record there is some lower cost affordable launch capabilities just read below: The primary payload is the Cygnus Mass Simulator (CMS), it has a height of 199.25 inches (5,061 mm), a diameter of 114 inches (2,900 mm) and a mass of 8,400 pounds (3,800 kg).[8] It is equipped with 22 accelerometers, 2 microphones, 12 digital thermometers, 24 thermocouples and 12 strain gages. The secondary payloads are four CubeSats that were deployed from the CMS.Three of them are PhoneSats, 1U CubeSats built by NASA's Ames Research Center. These are named Alexander, Graham and Bell, after the inventor of the telephone.The purpose of these three satellites is to demonstrate the use of smart phones as avionics in Cube Sats. They each have a mass of 2.48 pounds (1.124 kg) and are powered by lithium batteries. The fourth nanosat is a 3U CubeSat, called Dove-1, built by Cosmogia Inc. It carries a technology development Earth imagery experiment using the Earth's magnetic field for attitude control. Is it possible to carry P3E? numerous test launch use dummy mass why not launching one bigger satellite instead of a bunch of small one? As for the debate LEO vs HEO those who vote in favor of HEO are waiting out of AMSAT watching the 10 minuts LEO'S going up and down as the Jolly Jumper does. Is it better than nothing else? Luc Leblanc VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: So Long
While the frustration evidenced in this digest is understandable, perhaps unknown to us AMSAT are already trying to innovate an alternative to Highly Elliptical Orbit. Certainly a longer lived orbit would be desirable and a bird lighter that a P3 sat would perhaps find a cheap ride easier but let us rethink our path to get to where we want to be. As sure as E=mc^2, Upmass=$$$. Even though we started out as hitch hikers to the galaxy, AMSAT has acquired a significant data base of communications technology that we will be able to use to get more rides as soon as ITAR gets lifted off our neck and we can find more programs that can use the AMSAT communications expertise. How about a series of cube sats that are placed high enough (or could be raised to that orbit) to last for awhile? How about we use other people's bird's after they are through with their experiments and move them up to longer lasting orbits and reconfigure the comm system (the one we built for them) to an amateur radio configuration. If each one of these MEO cube sats lasts long enough to overlap, pretty soon you have a constellation. I probably will not live to see it complete but that is no reason not to start. The key is to get long lasting orbits with small sats and lots of them. Sent from my iPad On Sep 18, 2013, at 8:33 AM, amsat-bb-requ...@amsat.org wrote: Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to amsat-bb@amsat.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to amsat-bb-requ...@amsat.org You can reach the person managing the list at amsat-bb-ow...@amsat.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: so long (n0jy) 2. Re: so long (Iain Young, G7III) 3. Re: so long (Yanko Yankov) 4. Re: so long (Personal) 5. Re: so long (Patrick Green) 6. Re: so long (Bob- W7LRD) 7. Re: so long (Adrian Engele) 8. Re: so long (i8cvs) 9. Re: so long (Stefan Wagener) 10. Re: so long (Gus) 11. Re: so long (John Spasojevich) 12. Re: so long (Greg D) 13. Re: Space Weather Affect on Satellites (mlengrues...@aol.com) 14. Re: so long, try EME (MM) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:19:36 -0500 From: n0jy n...@n0jy.org To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long Message-ID: 5238ab48.8050...@n0jy.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Dang. Now what are we going to do? On 9/17/2013 1:58 PM, John Becker wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 20:45:52 +0100 From: Iain Young, G7III g7...@g7iii.net To: n0jy n...@n0jy.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long Message-ID: 5238b170.6050...@g7iii.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 17/09/13 20:19, n0jy wrote: Dang. Now what are we going to do? Eat the fish left behind ? :) 73s Iain -- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 14:46:45 -0500 From: Yanko Yankov samy...@shell4you.net To: n0jy n...@n0jy.org, amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long Message-ID: 6902cb30-2291-4cfa-a0b3-1b9f6b7f7...@email.android.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'll tell you what I will do. I'll make me a cup of coffee. Yanko,NX9G n0jy n...@n0jy.org wrote: Dang. Now what are we going to do? On 9/17/2013 1:58 PM, John Becker wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
The mass simulator was likely used to give accurate data for the launch vehicles performance (inaugural flight of Antares) for the launch of the actual Cygnus spacecraft. While yes, you could pound for pound replaced the mass simulator with something like P3E, you wouldn't get the data Orbital was looking for. Those sensors attached to the Mass simulator allows Orbital to obtain flight information of environments such as vibrations, temperatures, shocks, etc. that can be used to better calibrate ground testing of the real spacecraft. I find it hard to believe they would easily swap the mass simulator out for something like P3E since the goal was to better understand environments that Cygnus would actually see. Bryce KB1LQC On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:31 AM, luclebla...@videotron.ca wrote: On 17 Sep 2013 at 13:58, John Becker wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb For the record there is some lower cost affordable launch capabilities just read below: The primary payload is the Cygnus Mass Simulator (CMS), it has a height of 199.25 inches (5,061 mm), a diameter of 114 inches (2,900 mm) and a mass of 8,400 pounds (3,800 kg).[8] It is equipped with 22 accelerometers, 2 microphones, 12 digital thermometers, 24 thermocouples and 12 strain gages. The secondary payloads are four CubeSats that were deployed from the CMS.Three of them are PhoneSats, 1U CubeSats built by NASA's Ames Research Center. These are named Alexander, Graham and Bell, after the inventor of the telephone.The purpose of these three satellites is to demonstrate the use of smart phones as avionics in Cube Sats. They each have a mass of 2.48 pounds (1.124 kg) and are powered by lithium batteries. The fourth nanosat is a 3U CubeSat, called Dove-1, built by Cosmogia Inc. It carries a technology development Earth imagery experiment using the Earth's magnetic field for attitude control. Is it possible to carry P3E? numerous test launch use dummy mass why not launching one bigger satellite instead of a bunch of small one? As for the debate LEO vs HEO those who vote in favor of HEO are waiting out of AMSAT watching the 10 minuts LEO'S going up and down as the Jolly Jumper does. Is it better than nothing else? Luc Leblanc VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
From: luclebla...@videotron.ca For the record there is some lower cost affordable launch capabilities just read below: The primary payload is the Cygnus Mass Simulator (CMS) ... ... The secondary payloads are four CubeSats that were deployed from the CMS.Three of them are PhoneSats, 1U CubeSats built by NASA's Ames Research Center. Is it possible to carry P3E? numerous test launch use dummy mass why not launching one bigger satellite instead of a bunch of small one? As for the debate LEO vs HEO those who vote in favor of HEO are waiting out of AMSAT watching the 10 minuts LEO'S going up and down as the Jolly Jumper does. If only, I suspect there may be issues with the fact that P3E carries a motor and explosive fuel. CubeSat's are passive and sealed inside the deployment Pod, they present no safety risk to a launch. I'm sure every single AMSAT-NA Board member would love to see a linear transponder satellite in HEO. It all comes back to money, $10 million is needed to launch P3E and further $10 million would be needed for it's replacement 10 years later to ensure continuity of service. However, in the years to come another approach may be feasible - a 3U CubeSat with deployable solar panels, antennas and an ion motor, but it will take many years and several launches to develop and test the new technologies required to achieve that. Raising $10 million is probably beyond what can be done on Kickstarter, only one project which had mass appeal has ever raised that kind of funding. Getting up to $250,000 on Kickstarter may just about be feasible, enough for a 3U CubeSat in a low 700 km orbit, but I'd suggest larger amounts are out of the question. Meanwhile, let's hope some opportunities arise to fly amateur transponder packages on commercial or research satellites going to MEO or GEO. 73 Trevor M5AKA ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: So Long
Along the same thinking, sequentially launched flotillas of MEO cubesats with identical linear transponders, each with GPS derived local oscillator. If done correctly, antennas phased alike, the power from two or more would be additive and the uplinks would provide diversity. Like Project Westford Needles dipole experiment, but having system gain. -- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 11:42:32 -0500 From: Tom J. Gentry t.gen...@verizon.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: So Long Message-ID: 769da5e9-2900-4d29-86fb-c55eadd22...@verizon.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii While the frustration evidenced in this digest is understandable, perhaps unknown to us AMSAT are already trying to innovate an alternative to Highly Elliptical Orbit. Certainly a longer lived orbit would be desirable and a bird lighter that a P3 sat would perhaps find a cheap ride easier but let us rethink our path to get to where we want to be. As sure as E=mc^2, Upmass=$$$. Even though we started out as hitch hikers to the galaxy, AMSAT has acquired a significant data base of communications technology that we will be able to use to get more rides as soon as ITAR gets lifted off our neck and we can find more programs that can use the AMSAT communications expertise. How about a series of cube sats that are placed high enough (or could be raised to that orbit) to last for awhile? How about we use other people's bird's after they are through with their experiments and move them up to longer lasting orbits and reconfigure the comm system (the one we built for them) to an amateur radio configuration. If each one of these MEO cube sats lasts long enough to overlap, pretty soon you have a constellation. I probably will not live to see it complete but that is no reason not to start. The key is to get long lasting orbits with small sats and lots of them. Sent from my iPad -- Joe Leikhim Leikhim and Associates Communications Consultants Oviedo, Florida jleik...@leikhim.com 407-982-0446 WWW.LEIKHIM.COM ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
On 17/09/13 20:19, n0jy wrote: Dang. Now what are we going to do? Eat the fish left behind ? :) 73s Iain ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
Dang. Now what are we going to do? On 9/17/2013 1:58 PM, John Becker wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
- Original Message - From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John Hi John,W0JAB I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed his policy with only FM satellites. I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called the satellites for all and I invested a lot of money for equipments and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near future. In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and it was very nice until lasted. As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two ways communications between continents was not a satisfactory task. Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
How will we call you when the ice forms over hell or how do we send a signal 6 feet underground? If you want an AO 40 bird so bad, then make a couple million dollars or win the lottery and send it to AMSAT or find a way to help the Germans launch P3D...it's been sitting around. Nah...bitching and quitting...that's the way to get it done..thanks for the example. John AG9D Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2013, at 1:58 PM, John Becker w0...@big-river.net wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
the difficult we do immediately, the impossible takes a little longer! 73 Bob W7LRD - Original Message - From: Personal johna...@gmail.com To: John Becker w0...@big-river.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:12:00 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long How will we call you when the ice forms over hell or how do we send a signal 6 feet underground? If you want an AO 40 bird so bad, then make a couple million dollars or win the lottery and send it to AMSAT or find a way to help the Germans launch P3D...it's been sitting around. Nah...bitching and quitting...that's the way to get it done..thanks for the example. John AG9D Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2013, at 1:58 PM, John Becker w0...@big-river.net wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
Isn't this the reason why hams end up on HF? Any mode that requires infrastructure to operate is going to be this way. I'm sure you've experienced this on repeaters if you used them. Perhaps we need a kickstarter for the launch of P3E. 73 On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:58 PM, John Becker w0...@big-river.net wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John __**_ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- Best regards, Patrick Green ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
Hi Domenico, I am not sure if I understand your post: As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. As a matter of fact we don't need a new HEO, we have one or more accurate AMSAT-DL has one. It is called Phase 3E! What we need is $10million+ to fly it. during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. Well, many folks volunteer and work hard and no, we actually pay to volunteer and help and no, we don't expect to get paid! So, how about you help AMSAT-NA, AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-IT in their efforts to find a potential source of money to make that satellite fly. To quote Clayton (W5PFG) from an earlier post: Some of the loudest whining voices are from the non-voting community. I've observed this behavior in civic organizations, technical societies, fraternities, etc. Usually these are the same people who gripe about how an organization spends its money though the complainer never donates a dime. Rest my case, Stefan VE4NSA On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:02 PM, i8cvs domenico.i8...@tin.it wrote: - Original Message - From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John Hi John,W0JAB I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed his policy with only FM satellites. I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called the satellites for all and I invested a lot of money for equipments and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near future. In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and it was very nice until lasted. As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two ways communications between continents was not a satisfactory task. Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
Like this Kickstarter project which was underfunded : http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597141632/cat-a-thruster-for-interplanetary-cubesats We hope. 73, Adrian AA5UK From: Patrick Green pagr...@gmail.com To: Amsat BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 3:14 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: so long Isn't this the reason why hams end up on HF? Any mode that requires infrastructure to operate is going to be this way. I'm sure you've experienced this on repeaters if you used them. Perhaps we need a kickstarter for the launch of P3E. 73 On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:58 PM, John Becker w0...@big-river.net wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John __**_ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/**listinfo/amsat-bbhttp://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- Best regards, Patrick Green ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
Stefan, I second the comments . I brace myself every time I go to a hamfest to represent AMSAT. I would say I spend 75% of my time getting told that we are a bunch of morons and how the person complaining used to be a member but will never join again because we don't have a HEO bird. I spend time, politely too, with them explaining the world has changed in terms of launch cost and ask them if they have any ideas on how we can raise the money, that usually sends them on their way. I came to a great revelation this year looking back on my time as a club president, secretary and one of the 10% that actually does something other than complain and came to the conclusion that 75% of the rank and file hams want to open a box, sit in a chair, plug it in and yak in a microphone and complain. The other 25% are involved in experimentation, construction, education and pushing the service forward. The last time I checked, moaning and complaining to another ham who does nothing but complain doesn't get anything done. I should think that if there was anyone reading this mail service that had $10M to spare, they would have bought the launch by now. But go ahead and keep crying to the same group, maybe there's a recent lottery winner here. John AG9D On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Stefan Wagener wagen...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Domenico, I am not sure if I understand your post: As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. As a matter of fact we don't need a new HEO, we have one or more accurate AMSAT-DL has one. It is called Phase 3E! What we need is $10million+ to fly it. during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. Well, many folks volunteer and work hard and no, we actually pay to volunteer and help and no, we don't expect to get paid! So, how about you help AMSAT-NA, AMSAT-DL and AMSAT-IT in their efforts to find a potential source of money to make that satellite fly. To quote Clayton (W5PFG) from an earlier post: Some of the loudest whining voices are from the non-voting community. I've observed this behavior in civic organizations, technical societies, fraternities, etc. Usually these are the same people who gripe about how an organization spends its money though the complainer never donates a dime. Rest my case, Stefan VE4NSA On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 6:02 PM, i8cvs domenico.i8...@tin.it wrote: - Original Message - From: John Becker w0...@big-river.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:58 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] so long I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John Hi John,W0JAB I was AMSAT member numbar 798 since OSCAR-6 but I decided to live my membership after AO40 died because AMSAT changed his policy with only FM satellites. I remember that OSCAR-10,OSCAR13 and AO40 where called the satellites for all and I invested a lot of money for equipments and antennas dedicated for HEO satellites for nothing in the near future. In my opinion the satellite operation is not only an activity to collect grids but it is mostly experimentation in the VHF/UHF/SHF and particularly into microwave as it was with AO40 Mode-S/K and it was very nice until lasted. As soon AMSAT-NA will work or cooperate with AMSAT-DL to built a new HEO satellite I will call Martha and I will pay all my old duties to cover my previous not covered years of membership. By the way I am not against AMSAT-NA because I understand the ITAR and during the last 10 years I have cooperate to write many technical articles for the AMSAT Journal without any money reward. If Martha says that the actual AMSAT members are in the order of 3,000. and if Les Rayburn, N1LF claim to be member of AMSAT #38965 it means that in the last 10 years many members abandoned AMSAT because of no future with no HEO satellites and only the FM LEO cubesat for no two ways communications between continents was not a satisfactory task. Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! 73 de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
John, 1) I too pine for the HEO birds. 2) I have little interest in single-channel FM-only satellites But! 1) LEO birds are better than no birds at all. The early OSCARS were all LEO and without the learning curve they provided, we would probably never have launched AO-10 and AO-13. The challenges nowadays may be different (financial rather than technological) but in time we will hopefully overcome them. 2) From what I gather simply by reading this list, the majority of transponders flying are linear (NOT single-channel FM) and the same is true for the majority of transponders in the pipe. I respect your decision to drop out of the list and wish you well. Regards... -- 73, de Gus 8P6SM Barbados, the easternmost isle. On 09/17/2013 02:58 PM, John Becker wrote: I have decided to leave the list till something changes with this FM only satellite attitude only changes. That was the reason for me as well as other joining AMSAT in the first place. Please inform me if anything such as a replacement for AO 40 happens. John ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: so long
I made my first satellite contact in 1993, a year after I was first licensed. That first contact was due to a lot of elmering by Walt, KA6VNU, and the skill of Mel, KW7E, on the other end of the contact. Since then I have made countless contacts on my own, elmered others through their first contacts, and learned something from each and every one. New puzzles were answered by the many generous and knowledgeable participants in this bulletin board, including you. I've had an incredible experience, and it's not over yet. I hardly call that nothing. Greg KO6TH i8cvs wrote: Many years ago early in 1972 I joined AMSAT because they promised us to communicate worlwide much better than using the HF but things changed and our antennas are becaming rusty over the roof for very small or for nothingSorry ! ___ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
