[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-27 Thread Tomáš Hubálek
I'm still afraid that sales via slideme.org will be just a very small
fraction comparing to selling my own licence keys to free apps via
paypal. If you compare download rates for the same app on Android
Market and on Slideme there is significant difference.

But slideme.org is IMHO a proof that Google does not recognizes paid
apps as a priority. Because if small private company CAN sell android
apps and Google is NOT ABLE TO DO IT then it is probably because of
strategy decision not because of any other reason.

I wish I got clear expression from Google what are they priorities
regarding Android Market. Whether ads or paid apps worldwide.

Tom

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-27 Thread Chi Kit Leung
For Point 5, I think you cannot submit any apps to android market with the
license key activation required as a free app.
The policy are restricted the developers to use their authorize payment
processor.

2010/5/26 Tomáš Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com

 What makes me crazy about Amir's vision:

 1) Not all applications as suitable for AdSupported business model. I
 can't imagine how Home Screen widgets can be paid from Ads. There is
 too small space where to show ads that I believe it is impossible.

 2) I can imagine applications where Ad Supported is most efficient way
 how to monetize your app via Ads - social networks, references,
 location based apps. Not many apps on AM can't use this business
 model.

 3) According my friends revenue from Ads is currently very low. I can
 imagine that somebody pays one or two bucks for my widget but I can't
 imagine how many adds I have to display to get two bucks. How long
 time I have to wait until initial investment to Android Dev Phone and
 Android Market Entry fee returns back? And what is worse I have to buy
 another phone as my current Android Dev Phone 1 is currently
 antiquated and Froyo will probably never be at this phone.

 4) In my country (Czech Republic) there is necessary additional
 bureaucracy to be AdSense member. Even if earn 1 USD per month I have
 to sign on as VAT payer with quarterly reports to government and quite
 complicated administrative. This is our local specific but it may be
 in other countries too. This is the reason that I can't even try
 AdSense in my app.

 5) So only viable way how to monetize my apps is to develop
 alternative licencing method (licence keys paid via PayPal). This has
 disadvantages for both me and Google. I have to spend time on non
 productive work instead of improving my app. Every other developer has
 to reinvent similar wheel. Money transfer fees goes to PayPal instead
 of Google. There is no commission for Google. This business model may
 violate current (and future) application content guidelines. I have to
 solve somehow situation that Google prohibits this licencing model in
 future but I have to be fair to users that already paid. Etc.

 I hope that Google understands concerns mentioned here and they will
 open paid applications to the world.

 Tom

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-27 Thread Tomáš Hubálek
For my country there is no authorized processor. Because of Google's
approach we are criticizing here.

I would love to use Google's immediately.

I spent 350USD (phone and market entry fee) to start developing for Android
and I would like to get my investment back. I hoped Google will help me by
allowing to sell apps internationally.

But they don't... :-(

Tom

On May 28, 2010 2:17 AM, Chi Kit Leung michaelchi...@gmail.com wrote:

For Point 5, I think you cannot submit any apps to android market with the
license key activation required as a free app.
The policy are restricted the developers to use their authorize payment
processor.

2010/5/26 Tomáš Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com

 What makes me crazy about Amir's vision:


 
  1) Not all applications as suitable for AdSupported business model. I
  can't imagine how Home ...




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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Chi Kit Leung
i agree with Andy. But there is some alternative markets than google.


On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Andy Savage a...@bluewire.net.nz wrote:

 That's just crazy. How can they hope to compete with Apple's paid store?

 For sure that it's a different (and possibly exciting) interaction model
 for apps, but honestly the revenue is far less garmented. I don't see why
 they don't just take a cut from app purchases and then put that towards
 improving the store and offering paid apps everywhere.

 I for one certainly wouldn't mind 10% of my revenue going their way if the
 apps store was fantastic and it was available everywhere.

 --
 The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that
 will allow a solution
 - Bertrand Russell

 Andy Savage
 Cell Phone: +852 936 34341
 Skype ID: andy_savage
 Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/andysavage


 2010/5/26 Tomáš Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com

 This sounds terribly. I love AdSense in web pages as it is not
 annoying but sometimes even useful. But I really hate ads in software.
 I wish what you wrote bellow is not true :-(

 Tom

 On 25 kvě, 20:41, Amir Alagic amirs...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I don't think that this will happen any time soon for you in
  Singapore. Google is living on ads and few months ago Google bought
  AdMob for 750 million dollars. It it not in their interest to improve
  paid apps after they invested so much money in mobile advertising.
 
  Last year Google said that they will give us list of countries that
  will get paid apps... but it is more than a year and still almost
  nothing. There were some rumors that paid apps will come to Sweden at
  the end of Q1 2009, then that it will come in october 2009, then that
  it will come in Q1 2010 but nothing. Many people ask questions about
  that on so called Help forum for Android Market but nobody from Google
  is answering even if some people asked for more than a year.
 
  People that were on Google IO got 100 dollars checks to use with
  Adwords/Adsense (friend that was there told me about that). It looks
  like that Google prefer adds... I hope that I am wrong.
 
  On May 21, 11:34 am, hotr0d cyberm...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
   I'm surrently located in Singapore and I really love my Nexus one and
   I would love buy apps from the market place. I hope the ability to buy
   android apps from anywhere in the world (just like Iphone apps) would
   be available really really really soon.
 
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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Tomáš Hubálek
 i agree with Andy. But there is some alternative markets than google.

Unfortunately there is MANY alternative markets with very small share
and very uncertain future :-/

Tom

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Tomáš Hubálek


On 26 kvě, 04:37, Andy Savage a...@bluewire.net.nz wrote:

 I for one certainly wouldn't mind 10% of my revenue going their way if the
 apps store was fantastic and it was available everywhere.

FYI: Google takes 30% of your revenue in chosen countries ;-)

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Andy Savage
I believe that the 30% went to the carriers only?

If what you say is true and they take 30% where there is no carrier deal in
place then they have NO excuse (at least from our perspective) not to
implement *good* paid markets everywhere. For every minute that they don't
they are loosing significant revenue.

In my mind the Google Market is key. This is what will really be the iPhone
killer. Get this right and people will consider to move which means big
dollars for Google (directly or indrectly). Right now it's just idle threats
for people who criticize the iPhone, Apple Store and it's many flaws.
There's no better alternative.

I guess this is a slight rave, but to talk a little further on this when I
read a previous thread in regards to Google ignoring petitions. Seems almost
like shooting themselves in the foot. If enough people want something, why
wouldn't they listen to them and implement? Seems like Google has grown so
big and impersonal that it's loosing touch with it's customers (developer
customers that is).

Pity... because eventually they will figure this out. But in the meantime
they will miss significant revenue and fast-mover advantage.

-- 
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will allow a solution
- Bertrand Russell

Andy Savage
Cell Phone: +852 936 34341
Skype ID: andy_savage
Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/andysavage


2010/5/26 Tomáš Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com



 On 26 kvě, 04:37, Andy Savage a...@bluewire.net.nz wrote:

  I for one certainly wouldn't mind 10% of my revenue going their way if
 the
  apps store was fantastic and it was available everywhere.

 FYI: Google takes 30% of your revenue in chosen countries ;-)

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Tomáš Hubálek
What makes me crazy about Amir's vision:

1) Not all applications as suitable for AdSupported business model. I
can't imagine how Home Screen widgets can be paid from Ads. There is
too small space where to show ads that I believe it is impossible.

2) I can imagine applications where Ad Supported is most efficient way
how to monetize your app via Ads - social networks, references,
location based apps. Not many apps on AM can't use this business
model.

3) According my friends revenue from Ads is currently very low. I can
imagine that somebody pays one or two bucks for my widget but I can't
imagine how many adds I have to display to get two bucks. How long
time I have to wait until initial investment to Android Dev Phone and
Android Market Entry fee returns back? And what is worse I have to buy
another phone as my current Android Dev Phone 1 is currently
antiquated and Froyo will probably never be at this phone.

4) In my country (Czech Republic) there is necessary additional
bureaucracy to be AdSense member. Even if earn 1 USD per month I have
to sign on as VAT payer with quarterly reports to government and quite
complicated administrative. This is our local specific but it may be
in other countries too. This is the reason that I can't even try
AdSense in my app.

5) So only viable way how to monetize my apps is to develop
alternative licencing method (licence keys paid via PayPal). This has
disadvantages for both me and Google. I have to spend time on non
productive work instead of improving my app. Every other developer has
to reinvent similar wheel. Money transfer fees goes to PayPal instead
of Google. There is no commission for Google. This business model may
violate current (and future) application content guidelines. I have to
solve somehow situation that Google prohibits this licencing model in
future but I have to be fair to users that already paid. Etc.

I hope that Google understands concerns mentioned here and they will
open paid applications to the world.

Tom

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Mark Carter
In Google IO, they showed an app being installed to a smartphone
directly from a desktop browser (via the internet). I'm hoping this
will become a way to buy/install apps bypassing the Android Market app
and so could potentially open app-purchases to countries that do not
currently support paid apps.

I emphasise the word *hoping*.

Buy a Nexus One direct from Google (i.e. carrier-free) and connect to
the Android Market via wifi and you will not see paid apps (if you
don't insert a sim card). There is no technical reason for this and
its nothing to do with your location (tax-related issues), since you
may well be sitting in a paid-app country.  The problem is you don't
have a paid-app country sim card inserted. What that has to do with
anything is a mystery!

On May 26, 10:59 am, Tomáš  Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com wrote:
 What makes me crazy about Amir's vision:

 1) Not all applications as suitable for AdSupported business model. I
 can't imagine how Home Screen widgets can be paid from Ads. There is
 too small space where to show ads that I believe it is impossible.

 2) I can imagine applications where Ad Supported is most efficient way
 how to monetize your app via Ads - social networks, references,
 location based apps. Not many apps on AM can't use this business
 model.

 3) According my friends revenue from Ads is currently very low. I can
 imagine that somebody pays one or two bucks for my widget but I can't
 imagine how many adds I have to display to get two bucks. How long
 time I have to wait until initial investment to Android Dev Phone and
 Android Market Entry fee returns back? And what is worse I have to buy
 another phone as my current Android Dev Phone 1 is currently
 antiquated and Froyo will probably never be at this phone.

 4) In my country (Czech Republic) there is necessary additional
 bureaucracy to be AdSense member. Even if earn 1 USD per month I have
 to sign on as VAT payer with quarterly reports to government and quite
 complicated administrative. This is our local specific but it may be
 in other countries too. This is the reason that I can't even try
 AdSense in my app.

 5) So only viable way how to monetize my apps is to develop
 alternative licencing method (licence keys paid via PayPal). This has
 disadvantages for both me and Google. I have to spend time on non
 productive work instead of improving my app. Every other developer has
 to reinvent similar wheel. Money transfer fees goes to PayPal instead
 of Google. There is no commission for Google. This business model may
 violate current (and future) application content guidelines. I have to
 solve somehow situation that Google prohibits this licencing model in
 future but I have to be fair to users that already paid. Etc.

 I hope that Google understands concerns mentioned here and they will
 open paid applications to the world.

 Tom

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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Tomáš Hubálek
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Mark Carter mjc1...@googlemail.com wrote:

 In Google IO, they showed an app being installed to a smartphone
 directly from a desktop browser (via the internet). I'm hoping this
 will become a way to buy/install apps bypassing the Android Market app
 and so could potentially open app-purchases to countries that do not
 currently support paid apps.


Push IMHO is just remote command for Android Market client not bypassing
Android Market itself. I can imagine that alternative markets will use this
but I still think that you need some 'listener installed in the phone.


 Buy a Nexus One direct from Google (i.e. carrier-free) and connect to
 the Android Market via wifi and you will not see paid apps (if you
 don't insert a sim card). There is no technical reason for this and
 its nothing to do with your location (tax-related issues), since you
 may well be sitting in a paid-app country.  The problem is you don't
 have a paid-app country sim card inserted. What that has to do with
 anything is a mystery!


This I can confirm. Many people here in Europe just buy prepaid US card on
eBay then insert it into phone, BUY (!) paid apps and then return their
local SIM back to phone. And this just works.

This is crazy! This IMHO supports piracy because to get paid application
from illegal source is probably easier.

Tom


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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Mark Carter
2010/5/26 Tomáš Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com

 Push IMHO is just remote command for Android Market client not bypassing
 Android Market itself. I can imagine that alternative markets will use this
 but I still think that you need some 'listener installed in the phone.


I was assuming it would just invoke the package manager. Have a look at the
Google IO presentation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY3U2GXhz44

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY3U2GXhz44From 31:10 it shows the remote
triggering of an apk download.

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread gosh
In the 8 months of 'nothing' from Google on this issue, we've seen a
way to make it work for the software developer too, as it should:

This other approach involves 'not killing iPhone', but maintaining
some plurality in your platform dev choice.

Consider the Android market as your 'test' market, for testing new
products, testing new ideas in products and to get momentum in user-
land. Put them out on Android first and for free, but also do a
version for the iPhone that is a paid app. Put the extra features and
the extra polish into the iPhone paid app. You end up with the
traditional highly successful duel marketing model where you have a
'low-end' product (for people who like it that way), and a 'high-end'
product (for people who like it that way). It also happens to side-
step this whole international market impasse - which, if as Amir
suggests, is not really an impasse but a Google strategy to move us
all towards an adwords/adsense payment world only.

I concede that it has two drawbacks:
1). Not all applications you can do on the Android can be done/or make
sense to do on iPhone (and the reverse is also true). But a majority
can. On Android, concentrate on more screen formats and interaction
modes; on iPhone concentrate on more features and polish. Eventually
iPhone will probably get the extra screen formats, so very little of
the work will go unpaid.
2). You have to port (much of) your code to Objective-C most probably.
(If you have a lot of code in 'C' you can probably mitigate that -
which is what a lot of the mainstream game developers do/have.)

On the other hand, in the 8 months in which Google has said absolutely
'zero' on this issue, you could have done an incredible quality port
to the iPhone. Of course if we had known 'in advance' nothing was
going to happen for this long, we would have started much earlier on
this duel strategy, but at least we have now have.

Steve

On May 26, 6:44 pm, Andy Savage a...@bluewire.net.nz wrote:
 I believe that the 30% went to the carriers only?

 If what you say is true and they take 30% where there is no carrier deal in
 place then they have NO excuse (at least from our perspective) not to
 implement *good* paid markets everywhere. For every minute that they don't
 they are loosing significant revenue.

 In my mind the Google Market is key. This is what will really be the iPhone
 killer...

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Indicator Veritatis
One of the advantages of the application market SlideMe.org (http://
slideme.org) is that they handle all the tax payments themselves, the
vendor does not have to. The vendor receives the payment from slideme
instead of direct from the end user.

Another advantage is that you really can use it from any country where
there is wireless. Or so it seems. I have to admit I haven't read ALL
the fine print;) But it is certainly a much wider list of countries
fhan for Google.

Finally, slideme.org shows up near the top when one does a Google
search on the keywords android market marketplace so buyers have a
good chance of finding this market on their own. Especially since even
the Wikipedia article on Android Market mentions SlideME!

On May 26, 1:59 am, Tomáš  Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com wrote:
 What makes me crazy about Amir's vision:

 1) Not all applications as suitable for AdSupported business model. I
 can't imagine how Home Screen widgets can be paid from Ads. There is
 too small space where to show ads that I believe it is impossible.

 2) I can imagine applications where Ad Supported is most efficient way
 how to monetize your app via Ads - social networks, references,
 location based apps. Not many apps on AM can't use this business
 model.

 3) According my friends revenue from Ads is currently very low. I can
 imagine that somebody pays one or two bucks for my widget but I can't
 imagine how many adds I have to display to get two bucks. How long
 time I have to wait until initial investment to Android Dev Phone and
 Android Market Entry fee returns back? And what is worse I have to buy
 another phone as my current Android Dev Phone 1 is currently
 antiquated and Froyo will probably never be at this phone.

 4) In my country (Czech Republic) there is necessary additional
 bureaucracy to be AdSense member. Even if earn 1 USD per month I have
 to sign on as VAT payer with quarterly reports to government and quite
 complicated administrative. This is our local specific but it may be
 in other countries too. This is the reason that I can't even try
 AdSense in my app.

 5) So only viable way how to monetize my apps is to develop
 alternative licencing method (licence keys paid via PayPal). This has
 disadvantages for both me and Google. I have to spend time on non
 productive work instead of improving my app. Every other developer has
 to reinvent similar wheel. Money transfer fees goes to PayPal instead
 of Google. There is no commission for Google. This business model may
 violate current (and future) application content guidelines. I have to
 solve somehow situation that Google prohibits this licencing model in
 future but I have to be fair to users that already paid. Etc.

 I hope that Google understands concerns mentioned here and they will
 open paid applications to the world.

 Tom

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-26 Thread Indicator Veritatis
Surely you can use SlideME from Singapore. The list of apps is not
anywere near as comprehensive as on Google's Android Market, but it is
still pretty good. Go to http://slideme.org.

On May 21, 2:34 am, hotr0d cyberm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm surrently located in Singapore and I really love my Nexus one and
 I would love buy apps from the market place. I hope the ability to buy
 android apps from anywhere in the world (just like Iphone apps) would
 be available really really really soon.

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-25 Thread Amir Alagic
Hi,

I don't think that this will happen any time soon for you in
Singapore. Google is living on ads and few months ago Google bought
AdMob for 750 million dollars. It it not in their interest to improve
paid apps after they invested so much money in mobile advertising.

Last year Google said that they will give us list of countries that
will get paid apps... but it is more than a year and still almost
nothing. There were some rumors that paid apps will come to Sweden at
the end of Q1 2009, then that it will come in october 2009, then that
it will come in Q1 2010 but nothing. Many people ask questions about
that on so called Help forum for Android Market but nobody from Google
is answering even if some people asked for more than a year.

People that were on Google IO got 100 dollars checks to use with
Adwords/Adsense (friend that was there told me about that). It looks
like that Google prefer adds... I hope that I am wrong.


On May 21, 11:34 am, hotr0d cyberm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm surrently located in Singapore and I really love my Nexus one and
 I would love buy apps from the market place. I hope the ability to buy
 android apps from anywhere in the world (just like Iphone apps) would
 be available really really really soon.

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[android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-25 Thread Tomáš Hubálek
This sounds terribly. I love AdSense in web pages as it is not
annoying but sometimes even useful. But I really hate ads in software.
I wish what you wrote bellow is not true :-(

Tom

On 25 kvě, 20:41, Amir Alagic amirs...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I don't think that this will happen any time soon for you in
 Singapore. Google is living on ads and few months ago Google bought
 AdMob for 750 million dollars. It it not in their interest to improve
 paid apps after they invested so much money in mobile advertising.

 Last year Google said that they will give us list of countries that
 will get paid apps... but it is more than a year and still almost
 nothing. There were some rumors that paid apps will come to Sweden at
 the end of Q1 2009, then that it will come in october 2009, then that
 it will come in Q1 2010 but nothing. Many people ask questions about
 that on so called Help forum for Android Market but nobody from Google
 is answering even if some people asked for more than a year.

 People that were on Google IO got 100 dollars checks to use with
 Adwords/Adsense (friend that was there told me about that). It looks
 like that Google prefer adds... I hope that I am wrong.

 On May 21, 11:34 am, hotr0d cyberm...@gmail.com wrote:



  I'm surrently located in Singapore and I really love my Nexus one and
  I would love buy apps from the market place. I hope the ability to buy
  android apps from anywhere in the world (just like Iphone apps) would
  be available really really really soon.

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
  Groups Android Developers group.
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  android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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Re: [android-developers] Re: Android Apps purchasing from anywhere in the world

2010-05-25 Thread Andy Savage
That's just crazy. How can they hope to compete with Apple's paid store?

For sure that it's a different (and possibly exciting) interaction model for
apps, but honestly the revenue is far less garmented. I don't see why they
don't just take a cut from app purchases and then put that towards improving
the store and offering paid apps everywhere.

I for one certainly wouldn't mind 10% of my revenue going their way if the
apps store was fantastic and it was available everywhere.

-- 
The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that
will allow a solution
- Bertrand Russell

Andy Savage
Cell Phone: +852 936 34341
Skype ID: andy_savage
Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/andysavage


2010/5/26 Tomáš Hubálek tom.huba...@gmail.com

 This sounds terribly. I love AdSense in web pages as it is not
 annoying but sometimes even useful. But I really hate ads in software.
 I wish what you wrote bellow is not true :-(

 Tom

 On 25 kvě, 20:41, Amir Alagic amirs...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I don't think that this will happen any time soon for you in
  Singapore. Google is living on ads and few months ago Google bought
  AdMob for 750 million dollars. It it not in their interest to improve
  paid apps after they invested so much money in mobile advertising.
 
  Last year Google said that they will give us list of countries that
  will get paid apps... but it is more than a year and still almost
  nothing. There were some rumors that paid apps will come to Sweden at
  the end of Q1 2009, then that it will come in october 2009, then that
  it will come in Q1 2010 but nothing. Many people ask questions about
  that on so called Help forum for Android Market but nobody from Google
  is answering even if some people asked for more than a year.
 
  People that were on Google IO got 100 dollars checks to use with
  Adwords/Adsense (friend that was there told me about that). It looks
  like that Google prefer adds... I hope that I am wrong.
 
  On May 21, 11:34 am, hotr0d cyberm...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
   I'm surrently located in Singapore and I really love my Nexus one and
   I would love buy apps from the market place. I hope the ability to buy
   android apps from anywhere in the world (just like Iphone apps) would
   be available really really really soon.
 
   --
   You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
   Groups Android Developers group.
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 android-developers@googlegroups.com
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   android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comandroid-developers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com
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 groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en

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