Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
Well, in France we recently had a presidential election and for many people, neither of the 2 candidates selected for the 2nd round was fully satisfactory. For the PMC election, I'm happy to see that Unhammer who informed people a lot when I started working on apertium about 10 years ago is a candidate. Other PMC candidates also suit me and I would have voted for them. If I had to choose between 2 presidents, I would have voted for Francis. So for me too, whether there is an election or not, both are fine for me. One way to settle the problem could be to ask if there are volunteers among those who are not PMC candidates to organize the election. If we find 3 volunteers, it will be philosophically preferable to organize the election, even if it would take one month. If they are not found, and especially if there are no volunteers at all, we will be able to conclude that there is a consensus to accept all the candidates without proceeding to an election. > Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 21:11:54 +0530 > From: Tanmai Khanna > To: Tino Didriksen > Cc: "\[apertium-stuff\]" > Reply-To: apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election? > Pièce(s) jointes(s) probable(s)> > I get the sentiment but to be honest, not holding elections at all does > dent credibility a little. Tino offered to stand for President, and so did > Francis. Maybe we should have a vote, secure a mandate and then move on. > > That way it'll be clear to everyone that the leader is elected and not just > selected unopposed. > > What do you guys think? > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 19:54 Tino Didriksen wrote: > > > G'day everyone, > > > > It's been a week, and we have 7 candidates for PMC and 2 for President: > > https://github.com/apertium/elections > > > > - PMC: Francis M. Tyers, Jonathan N. Washington, Kevin Brubeck > > Unhammer, Mikel L. Forcada, Tanmai Khanna, Tino Didriksen, Xavi Ivars > > > > - President: Francis, Tino > > > > Given that exactly 7 for PMC would avoid the need for an election, I'm > > happy to forego the whole thing and let Francis continue in the role of > > President. > > > > So, I propose that if this is still the status by end-of-day UTC tomorrow > > (2022-04-27 23:59:59 UTC, ~34 hours from now), then we don't hold the > > election and simply replace Sushain K. Cherivirala with Kevin Brubeck > > Unhammer. CC'ed Sushain directly. > > > > -- Tino Didriksen > > > Bernard Chardonneau (France) Phone : [33] 9 88 05 31 06 GSM phone : [33] 6 40 26 67 91 An alternative Apertium translation website : http://apertiumtrad.tuxfamily.org Multilingual websites for my free softwares : http://libremail.free.fr and http://libremail.tuxfamily.org http://cyloop.tuxfamily.org (mainly translated with Apertium) My general website (in french only) http://bech.free.fr ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
My point isn't just about appearances though it's also about what's the more democratic thing to do. To at least give a proper platform for the non PMC people to say something. Moreover, I'm really confused about all this talk of "bureaucracy". It's one vote, which was supposed to happen anyway. Not really sure how it's increasing bureaucracy here. On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 21:53 Jonathan Washington < jonathan.n.washing...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm also happy with either approach. I support avoiding bureaucracy, > but I get Tanmai's point about appearances. But then, being friendly > and going forward unanimously and unbureaucratically is also an > appearance :D > > -- > Jonathan > > 27 apr 2022, Ç. tarixində 08:08 tarixində Juan Pablo > yazdı: > > > > Same here! It'll be great to vote if there are more candidates taking a > > step forward. But if not, I vote for avoiding bureaucracy. Candidates > > can be proclaimed by unanimous consent. > > > > best, > > > > Juan Pablo > > > > El 27/04/2022 a las 12:57, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer escribió: > > > As someone currently outside the PMC, I too vote for no vote if it > means > > > avoiding unnecessary bureaucracy :) > > > > > > ___ > > > Apertium-stuff mailing list > > > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > > > > > ___ > > Apertium-stuff mailing list > > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
I'm also happy with either approach. I support avoiding bureaucracy, but I get Tanmai's point about appearances. But then, being friendly and going forward unanimously and unbureaucratically is also an appearance :D -- Jonathan 27 apr 2022, Ç. tarixində 08:08 tarixində Juan Pablo yazdı: > > Same here! It'll be great to vote if there are more candidates taking a > step forward. But if not, I vote for avoiding bureaucracy. Candidates > can be proclaimed by unanimous consent. > > best, > > Juan Pablo > > El 27/04/2022 a las 12:57, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer escribió: > > As someone currently outside the PMC, I too vote for no vote if it means > > avoiding unnecessary bureaucracy :) > > > > ___ > > Apertium-stuff mailing list > > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
Same here! It'll be great to vote if there are more candidates taking a step forward. But if not, I vote for avoiding bureaucracy. Candidates can be proclaimed by unanimous consent. best, Juan Pablo El 27/04/2022 a las 12:57, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer escribió: As someone currently outside the PMC, I too vote for no vote if it means avoiding unnecessary bureaucracy :) ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
Yeah, but you're going to be elected to the PMC, you can't vote for no vote. Same as me, we shouldn't be deciding that we don't need a vote. Violates many principles :p On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 16:28 Kevin Brubeck Unhammer wrote: > Xavi Ivars čálii: > > > But also, voting for just to confirm (or also push back?) the only group > of > > people that volunteered seems a bit useless. > > > > Maybe if someone outside the PMC gave their opinion, voting would make > more > > sense. But so far, it's been only the ones in the PMC (+ Sushain + > Daniel), > > everyone agreeing. > > As someone currently outside the PMC, I too vote for no vote if it means > avoiding unnecessary bureaucracy :) > > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
Xavi Ivars čálii: > But also, voting for just to confirm (or also push back?) the only group of > people that volunteered seems a bit useless. > > Maybe if someone outside the PMC gave their opinion, voting would make more > sense. But so far, it's been only the ones in the PMC (+ Sushain + Daniel), > everyone agreeing. As someone currently outside the PMC, I too vote for no vote if it means avoiding unnecessary bureaucracy :) signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
The vote will be to confirm if this decision is fine. The same as votes for an election (anyone in the census can vote). If there are significant no votes, or really any no votes we can have a discussion about the next step. If the voting is unanimous then we have a mandate from the assembly of committers, which would make the election legit. On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 14:21 Xavi Ivars wrote: > I'm OK with both approaches. If we want people voting, that's fine for me. > > But also, voting for just to confirm (or also push back?) the only group > of people that volunteered seems a bit useless. > > Maybe if someone outside the PMC gave their opinion, voting would make > more sense. But so far, it's been only the ones in the PMC (+ Sushain + > Daniel), everyone agreeing. > > > -- > Xavi Ivars > < http://xavi.ivars.me > > > El dc., 27 d’abr. 2022, 10:43, Tanmai Khanna va > escriure: > >> If the rest of the PMC is okay with it, I guess that's what we'll do. I >> still propose a vote so that we can have it on the record that the assembly >> of committers is okay with this decision. I get that by not replying >> there's an assumed consent but it really seems iffy when there's an >> election involved. >> >> It shouldn't take too long. Just a thought :) >> >> Tanmai >> >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 14:05 Tino Didriksen >> wrote: >> >>> There is precedence even in legislative bodies: >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unanimous_consent >>> >>> We've given ample time and updates, and we have a possible outcome that >>> can be achieved by unanimous consent. I say we take it and get on with the >>> business of forming the Foundation, which the (new) PMC can delegate the >>> legwork of to anyone. >>> >>> -- Tino Didriksen >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 at 17:41, Tanmai Khanna >>> wrote: >>> I get the sentiment but to be honest, not holding elections at all does dent credibility a little. Tino offered to stand for President, and so did Francis. Maybe we should have a vote, secure a mandate and then move on. That way it'll be clear to everyone that the leader is elected and not just selected unopposed. What do you guys think? On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 19:54 Tino Didriksen wrote: > G'day everyone, > > It's been a week, and we have 7 candidates for PMC and 2 for > President: https://github.com/apertium/elections > > - PMC: Francis M. Tyers, Jonathan N. Washington, Kevin Brubeck > Unhammer, Mikel L. Forcada, Tanmai Khanna, Tino Didriksen, Xavi Ivars > > - President: Francis, Tino > > Given that exactly 7 for PMC would avoid the need for an election, I'm > happy to forego the whole thing and let Francis continue in the role of > President. > > So, I propose that if this is still the status by end-of-day UTC > tomorrow (2022-04-27 23:59:59 UTC, ~34 hours from now), then we don't hold > the election and simply replace Sushain K. Cherivirala with Kevin Brubeck > Unhammer. CC'ed Sushain directly. > > -- Tino Didriksen > ___ >> Apertium-stuff mailing list >> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
I'm OK with both approaches. If we want people voting, that's fine for me. But also, voting for just to confirm (or also push back?) the only group of people that volunteered seems a bit useless. Maybe if someone outside the PMC gave their opinion, voting would make more sense. But so far, it's been only the ones in the PMC (+ Sushain + Daniel), everyone agreeing. -- Xavi Ivars < http://xavi.ivars.me > El dc., 27 d’abr. 2022, 10:43, Tanmai Khanna va escriure: > If the rest of the PMC is okay with it, I guess that's what we'll do. I > still propose a vote so that we can have it on the record that the assembly > of committers is okay with this decision. I get that by not replying > there's an assumed consent but it really seems iffy when there's an > election involved. > > It shouldn't take too long. Just a thought :) > > Tanmai > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 14:05 Tino Didriksen wrote: > >> There is precedence even in legislative bodies: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unanimous_consent >> >> We've given ample time and updates, and we have a possible outcome that >> can be achieved by unanimous consent. I say we take it and get on with the >> business of forming the Foundation, which the (new) PMC can delegate the >> legwork of to anyone. >> >> -- Tino Didriksen >> >> >> On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 at 17:41, Tanmai Khanna >> wrote: >> >>> I get the sentiment but to be honest, not holding elections at all does >>> dent credibility a little. Tino offered to stand for President, and so did >>> Francis. Maybe we should have a vote, secure a mandate and then move on. >>> >>> That way it'll be clear to everyone that the leader is elected and not >>> just selected unopposed. >>> >>> What do you guys think? >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 19:54 Tino Didriksen >>> wrote: >>> G'day everyone, It's been a week, and we have 7 candidates for PMC and 2 for President: https://github.com/apertium/elections - PMC: Francis M. Tyers, Jonathan N. Washington, Kevin Brubeck Unhammer, Mikel L. Forcada, Tanmai Khanna, Tino Didriksen, Xavi Ivars - President: Francis, Tino Given that exactly 7 for PMC would avoid the need for an election, I'm happy to forego the whole thing and let Francis continue in the role of President. So, I propose that if this is still the status by end-of-day UTC tomorrow (2022-04-27 23:59:59 UTC, ~34 hours from now), then we don't hold the election and simply replace Sushain K. Cherivirala with Kevin Brubeck Unhammer. CC'ed Sushain directly. -- Tino Didriksen >>> ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
If the rest of the PMC is okay with it, I guess that's what we'll do. I still propose a vote so that we can have it on the record that the assembly of committers is okay with this decision. I get that by not replying there's an assumed consent but it really seems iffy when there's an election involved. It shouldn't take too long. Just a thought :) Tanmai On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 14:05 Tino Didriksen wrote: > There is precedence even in legislative bodies: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unanimous_consent > > We've given ample time and updates, and we have a possible outcome that > can be achieved by unanimous consent. I say we take it and get on with the > business of forming the Foundation, which the (new) PMC can delegate the > legwork of to anyone. > > -- Tino Didriksen > > > On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 at 17:41, Tanmai Khanna > wrote: > >> I get the sentiment but to be honest, not holding elections at all does >> dent credibility a little. Tino offered to stand for President, and so did >> Francis. Maybe we should have a vote, secure a mandate and then move on. >> >> That way it'll be clear to everyone that the leader is elected and not >> just selected unopposed. >> >> What do you guys think? >> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 19:54 Tino Didriksen >> wrote: >> >>> G'day everyone, >>> >>> It's been a week, and we have 7 candidates for PMC and 2 for President: >>> https://github.com/apertium/elections >>> >>> - PMC: Francis M. Tyers, Jonathan N. Washington, Kevin Brubeck >>> Unhammer, Mikel L. Forcada, Tanmai Khanna, Tino Didriksen, Xavi Ivars >>> >>> - President: Francis, Tino >>> >>> Given that exactly 7 for PMC would avoid the need for an election, I'm >>> happy to forego the whole thing and let Francis continue in the role of >>> President. >>> >>> So, I propose that if this is still the status by end-of-day UTC >>> tomorrow (2022-04-27 23:59:59 UTC, ~34 hours from now), then we don't hold >>> the election and simply replace Sushain K. Cherivirala with Kevin Brubeck >>> Unhammer. CC'ed Sushain directly. >>> >>> -- Tino Didriksen >>> >> ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Apertium PMC Election: Bypass election?
There is precedence even in legislative bodies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unanimous_consent We've given ample time and updates, and we have a possible outcome that can be achieved by unanimous consent. I say we take it and get on with the business of forming the Foundation, which the (new) PMC can delegate the legwork of to anyone. -- Tino Didriksen On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 at 17:41, Tanmai Khanna wrote: > I get the sentiment but to be honest, not holding elections at all does > dent credibility a little. Tino offered to stand for President, and so did > Francis. Maybe we should have a vote, secure a mandate and then move on. > > That way it'll be clear to everyone that the leader is elected and not > just selected unopposed. > > What do you guys think? > > On Tue, Apr 26, 2022, 19:54 Tino Didriksen wrote: > >> G'day everyone, >> >> It's been a week, and we have 7 candidates for PMC and 2 for President: >> https://github.com/apertium/elections >> >> - PMC: Francis M. Tyers, Jonathan N. Washington, Kevin Brubeck >> Unhammer, Mikel L. Forcada, Tanmai Khanna, Tino Didriksen, Xavi Ivars >> >> - President: Francis, Tino >> >> Given that exactly 7 for PMC would avoid the need for an election, I'm >> happy to forego the whole thing and let Francis continue in the role of >> President. >> >> So, I propose that if this is still the status by end-of-day UTC tomorrow >> (2022-04-27 23:59:59 UTC, ~34 hours from now), then we don't hold the >> election and simply replace Sushain K. Cherivirala with Kevin Brubeck >> Unhammer. CC'ed Sushain directly. >> >> -- Tino Didriksen >> > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
