Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
Yeah, I also agree that it is not just current technology. It is creativity and, please allow me to add, intention of the composer. Same technology today is available to all composers in World, India and Bollywood, but no other ARR could come up as yet. I would say those people got outright lost whose intentions were wrong - those who relied on copying, on getting inspirations, could never do enough experimentation to come out on their own. But ARR never copied so he did experimentation and exploration. Thus, the things he rejected also increased his learning. Others who copied some successful music lost on this part of learning that had come due to failed experiments. ARR succeeded because he was comfortable with technology to begin with. Older people mostly held technology in lesser vain, mostly criticized newer technology, didn't adopt it quickly, so they lost as the times changed. Still, I forcefully say that older people also have a lot of creativity, good intentions, they did a lot of innovation, exploration, experimentation. That is how Indian/ bolly music reached a place where ARR could take over. Naushad could be called the father of bollywood music whose Rattan (1944?) was the first film that had music that reached the heart of all hindi music listeners. I still listen to Rattan's music and it sounds good to me. go to wiki naushad page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naushad and see some of what all experimentations he did in that era. (It is mostly updated by your friendly neighborhood... he he he). He was one of those who brought playback music as compared to live singing while shooting, he got the echo effects first time, he used 100-piece orchestra first time in 1952, but 11 years later he used just 6 instruments for one song, he developed the system of western notation for bolly music, he used classical singers in bolly music, he used pure bhojpuri lyrics in a hindi film (1961). In Barsat (1951), Shankar Jaikishan was the first to use a longer interlude in Hawa meain udhta jaaye, that became standard right since then and endures even now. Even ARR follows that. Several other veterans also had a lot history of innovation and experimentations that helped bolly music. These all were more than technology change, it were paradigm shifts, that made it possible for bolly music to evolve and establish. So, I can say that, in every era, there had been people who made their contributions, their sacrifices. They all are greats like ARR is. The only ones who are not great are copy-cats. -- Rawat On 2/4/2009 12:08 AM India Time, _NarayanSwamy_ wrote: It is one of the toughest topic to discuss but always the key topic when people try to critic Rahman. This is my opinion. Given the technology, sophostication and what not, no one could meet Rahman's standards. See it is not the technology that is the issue here. It is the sole creativity that is involved in identifying a person. ARR has created that kind of impact not just locally but internationally. It needs a lifetime dedication to achieve this and we all know that ARR has achieved this by sacrificing himself to stand where he is today. Learning music alone is an ocean. But also having the mindset to be distinct and carry Indian music international is what that actually made him a musical god of india. Seeing some of the toughest moments in life, it is obvious that many would have taken the same composing style and ideologies that persisted years together. It takes some massive amount of courage to break the trend and keep proving to our audience and critics that music is music and it still needs creativity. He only introduced something new was the sound. Ofcourse, it is more western in the core essence and arrangement, but that is the ultimate majic right. Why should we be destined to hear only MSV or Illayaraja's music alone and restrict our space to just Orchestral music. Of course, Rahman accepts those composers were real legends who scored music with heart and sweat in it. He only wanted to kill that stereo type into more versatile music. Life needs change and so is music. To me, a nice rhythm, just tampoora sound is also music. What ARR has achieved is even more tougher. Its not just scoring music and giving the sheets to the musicians. Sound engineering is an art and people in hollywood are respected like Gods. ARR is a master of both divine compositions and sound engineering. I think it would take atleast a couple of decades for someone to prove something different to what we are hearing today. There is always a time factor. ARR himself has said that he will do this job until he and rest of the world finds it interesting. So I would just say lets enjoy his music every bit and not worry too much about who is big. OMG, its been so long i wrote something elaborate like this. Sorry guys, i was just typing whatever came to my mind. Forgive
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
Without taking any credit away from 'the genius' @ ARR i feel with the available sound technology of today music directors like SD, Naushad, Madan Mohan and Illayaraja could have reached out globally. Some of SD's songs and those of Naushad's are still very much etched in my heart. They would produce melodious numbers even today if they were alive and with the help of today's technology. --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Chord purev...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Chord purev...@yahoo.com Subject: [arr] If classic composers were around today. To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 4:01 AM I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above.
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
Please understand. What Chord is trying to say is 'Include IR to this discussion though he is alive'. Thanks. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Vithur vith...@... wrote: *What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today * A small observation... By God's Grace, Ilayaraja is alive today. I hope this topic doesnt create warfare. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Chord purev...@... wrote: I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above. -- regards, Vithur
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
Thanks for helping me clarify Nagaraj! Yes, I should have been more clear about that statement. I know Illayaraja is still alive. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Nagaraj arr_naga...@... wrote: Please understand. What Chord is trying to say is 'Include IR to this discussion though he is alive'. Thanks. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Vithur vithurm@ wrote: *What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today * A small observation... By God's Grace, Ilayaraja is alive today. I hope this topic doesnt create warfare. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Chord purevibz@ wrote: I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above. -- regards, Vithur
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
Few points that i am educated about arr's way - Artists are given freedom to compose/sing/play more than one tune (SPB acknowledges this whole heartedly) - Credibility to artists by displaying their names on Disks/cartons which brings them a focal in market (Shivamani mentioned in couple of interviews) - ARR respects each artists and his focus is totality output by mix and match of contribution of all the artists (Hariharan SPB singing roja jane mann; jana gana mana tune by major artists) - His focus is teaching, encouraging young artists irrespective of experience, name or fame, nationality (mentioned in one of artist's interviews) - He still says he can do better (thirst/fear for/of best output) and he mentions in one of the interviews he says he relaxes only in the time gap his project is completed (appreciated) and new one is about to commence - Last and the most important thing, all credits to Allah alone) I have noticed mix and match of few qualities of other artists (probably I am not aware), which make me feel ARR is ARR The man, The music, The magic (Transcript of live presentation) Thanks (purevibz) for recharging our sentiments Ram On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Chord purev...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for helping me clarify Nagaraj! Yes, I should have been more clear about that statement. I know Illayaraja is still alive. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com, Nagaraj arr_naga...@... wrote: Please understand. What Chord is trying to say is 'Include IR to this discussion though he is alive'. Thanks. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com, Vithur vithurm@ wrote: *What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today * A small observation... By God's Grace, Ilayaraja is alive today. I hope this topic doesnt create warfare. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Chord purevibz@ wrote: I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above. -- regards, Vithur
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
And thank you for those excellent points and contributing so thoughtfully! --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Rama Krishna happyramakris...@... wrote: Few points that i am educated about arr's way - Artists are given freedom to compose/sing/play more than one tune (SPB acknowledges this whole heartedly) - Credibility to artists by displaying their names on Disks/cartons which brings them a focal in market (Shivamani mentioned in couple of interviews) - ARR respects each artists and his focus is totality output by mix and match of contribution of all the artists (Hariharan SPB singing roja jane mann; jana gana mana tune by major artists) - His focus is teaching, encouraging young artists irrespective of experience, name or fame, nationality (mentioned in one of artist's interviews) - He still says he can do better (thirst/fear for/of best output) and he mentions in one of the interviews he says he relaxes only in the time gap his project is completed (appreciated) and new one is about to commence - Last and the most important thing, all credits to Allah alone) I have noticed mix and match of few qualities of other artists (probably I am not aware), which make me feel ARR is ARR The man, The music, The magic (Transcript of live presentation) Thanks (purevibz) for recharging our sentiments Ram On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Chord purev...@... wrote: Thanks for helping me clarify Nagaraj! Yes, I should have been more clear about that statement. I know Illayaraja is still alive. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans% 40yahoogroups.com, Nagaraj arr_nagaraj@ wrote: Please understand. What Chord is trying to say is 'Include IR to this discussion though he is alive'. Thanks. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com arrahmanfans% 40yahoogroups.com, Vithur vithurm@ wrote: *What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today * A small observation... By God's Grace, Ilayaraja is alive today. I hope this topic doesnt create warfare. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Chord purevibz@ wrote: I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above. -- regards, Vithur
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
It is one of the toughest topic to discuss but always the key topic when people try to critic Rahman. This is my opinion. Given the technology, sophostication and what not, no one could meet Rahman's standards. See it is not the technology that is the issue here. It is the sole creativity that is involved in identifying a person. ARR has created that kind of impact not just locally but internationally. It needs a lifetime dedication to achieve this and we all know that ARR has achieved this by sacrificing himself to stand where he is today. Learning music alone is an ocean. But also having the mindset to be distinct and carry Indian music international is what that actually made him a musical god of india. Seeing some of the toughest moments in life, it is obvious that many would have taken the same composing style and ideologies that persisted years together. It takes some massive amount of courage to break the trend and keep proving to our audience and critics that music is music and it still needs creativity. He only introduced something new was the sound. Ofcourse, it is more western in the core essence and arrangement, but that is the ultimate majic right. Why should we be destined to hear only MSV or Illayaraja's music alone and restrict our space to just Orchestral music. Of course, Rahman accepts those composers were real legends who scored music with heart and sweat in it. He only wanted to kill that stereo type into more versatile music. Life needs change and so is music. To me, a nice rhythm, just tampoora sound is also music. What ARR has achieved is even more tougher. Its not just scoring music and giving the sheets to the musicians. Sound engineering is an art and people in hollywood are respected like Gods. ARR is a master of both divine compositions and sound engineering. I think it would take atleast a couple of decades for someone to prove something different to what we are hearing today. There is always a time factor. ARR himself has said that he will do this job until he and rest of the world finds it interesting. So I would just say lets enjoy his music every bit and not worry too much about who is big. OMG, its been so long i wrote something elaborate like this. Sorry guys, i was just typing whatever came to my mind. Forgive me if i confused too much lol Swamy --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Nagaraj arr_naga...@... wrote: Please understand. What Chord is trying to say is 'Include IR to this discussion though he is alive'. Thanks. --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Vithur vithurm@ wrote: *What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today * A small observation... By God's Grace, Ilayaraja is alive today. I hope this topic doesnt create warfare. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Chord purevibz@ wrote: I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above. -- regards, Vithur
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
Here is what i wrote on my blog... http://www.berginroy.com/2009/02/why-others-couldnt-do-what-arr-did.html I read this article in vikatan.com (tamil) that tried to convince Ilayaraja fans on why he didn't get the recognition that AR Rahman gets these days, inspite of being a legendry composer. And also saw this question asked in AR Rahman fans group, If classic composers were around today. Well, let's take all the composers from Naushad, SD Burman, RD Burman in the North to S. Rajeswara Rao, KV Mahadevan, MSV, Ilayaraja in the south. We are sure that they were all great composers. No second thought on it. But how Rahman is different from all these? May be the era he is in... the exposure he got. May be yes, but that doesn't alone make the difference as many others are there in this technology surrounded world. Only Rahman could go to other side of the world. So let's leave alone the technology or the opportunity of the period Rahman is in. We all know the composers mentioned above have done tons of compositions, all put together will be in thousands with Ilayaraja alone taking about 800+ film scores and 5000+ songs and still counting. Let's not forget that Ilayaraja's song for Maniratnam's Thalapathy was in the shortlist of best songs of all time. And a few more songs of AR Rahman was in the list. Notice that even then AR takes a slight lead there with more songs than others mentioned, taking it to the global audience. That is the key, how many of these thousands of compositions were able to turn the global audience towards our own composers? Let's leave alone the global arena, composers in the north have given some outstanding unforgettable compositions, but it was limited to the region. It couldn't go further. And the same case with composers from the south. They had given some of the best compositions ever, but were limited to the region. They couldn't go beyond their region and succeed. Now, let's turn back to Rahman and see what he did that they couldn't do. He was able to deliver music that blended with people right from Kashmir to Kanyakumari. He was able to deliver what a punjabi would expect and also something what a malayali would enjoy. He was able to cross region just like that, that was his first triumph and he did that in his debut itself. No one else has achieved this, that Rahman did. Second, his genre is very broad, he could deliver any genre from Indian classicals - Hindustani, Carnatic - Qawwali to Bhangra - Western Classical - Pop, Jazz, Rock. Oh yes, he started off his career with the Reggae. That is one of his strengths. He was able to fuse them and do it in style. Third, When Time magazine did this shortlisting for Best Soundtrack of All time, do you think they'd have missed these legendry composers' scores from the largest film industry in the world? No way. They'd have considered the above listed composers if i'm not wrong. Why none of the most experienced composers' score couldn't go to the top 10 list when a 26 yrs old young man's composition could make it to the top of the world? And that's where AR Rahman is different and stands unique from all these composers. He impressed Andrew Lloyd Webber with his Chaiyya Chaiyya, with the blend of the rhythm and melody it carried and earn the offer to compose for Bombay Dreams. And he was able to compose for Chinese film, at the other end, he was able to do a period western british style movie and so on. When it comes to Slumdog Millionaire, he did his work as usual, but he had the cushion of the carrier that show cased his work to the western audience and as they say rest is history yet again. See the kind of response he got from the reviews, click the below amazon.com link to read the reviews of the fans and these are not the critics'. Critics' reviews are a bunch lot that he has won. And so, no surprise that he won the Golden Globe or 3 nominations at the Oscars. http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B001LX0JK6/ref=cm_cr_pr_link_next_2?%5Fencoding=UTF8showViewpoints=0pageNumber=2 Now you'd agree that AR Rahman is unique that India has ever produced and perhaps the world would see in its history. - Bergin From: Chord purev...@yahoo.com To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2009 10:41:54 AM Subject: Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today. And thank you for those excellent points and contributing so thoughtfully! --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Rama Krishna happyramakrishna@ ... wrote: Few points that i am educated about arr's way - Artists are given freedom to compose/sing/ play more than one tune (SPB acknowledges this whole heartedly) - Credibility to artists by displaying their names on Disks/cartons which brings them a focal in market (Shivamani mentioned in couple of interviews) - ARR respects each artists and his focus is totality output by mix and match
[arr] If classic composers were around today.........
I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above.
Re: [arr] If classic composers were around today.........
*What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today * A small observation... By God's Grace, Ilayaraja is alive today. I hope this topic doesnt create warfare. On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Chord purev...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't like to compare composers of different times using blanket statements. The Indian film industry has a rich history of brilliant composers, each with their own unique strengths and contributions. ARR is another in a series of brilliant composers. Is he THE best ever? I can't really answer that. Is he THE best to me? Sure! What if RD Burman, Madan Mohan, Naushaad, or even Illayaraja etc. had been alive today with their same talents but with the luxury of sound technology and computers. Would their music also reach across globally? Would love to hear your thoughts. As far as I'm concerned, nobody has EVER combined different genres of world music more beautifully than our ARR. How does ARR compare to other composers in the past just in terms of pure melody? Originality? Please please please do not turn this discussion into a Illayaraja is way better than Rahman or RD Burman is nothing compared to AR Rahman type of warfare. I'm just curious to know your thoughts about the above. -- regards, Vithur
