Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
I know what you mean, but perhaps our more sensitive systems have something in place - retiring access to records when a person leaves, or additional security questions to access sensitive data, maybe something else. I'm not tied in to the central administrative computing stuff, so... maybe something for me to look at. Or change to unique Remedy ids. Or determine it's not worth the worry. David > -Original Message- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:56 AM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > If an environment is re-using logins in general - how sensitive can the data > from one jdoe to the next be? Guess It's just the hillbilly in me that > doesn't > have an appreciation for all this hidden data stuff. > > - Original Message - > From: "David Durling" > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:07:11 AM > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > I understand, this is a lot of effort we're talking about; not sure I really > want > to do it. > > But it's not necessarily a minor issue if "jdoe" had access to semi-sensitive > or > at least personally-related info, leaves employment, then a year later > another "jdoe" comes on board and inadvertently gains access to info they > shouldn't see. > > On the other hand, perhaps this minor risk is worth it - just something I have > to determine locally. > > David > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:54 AM > > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > I've never been a fan of changing data after the fact - the new person > > would most likely have a different PPL record number and the actual > > name may also be a bit different (different middle initial, etc). > > Most of the ticket info has names as well as login ID. > > > > I think we spend way too much time worrying about minor items and > > trying to devise elaborate work arounds - my response to the folks > > asking the questions is 'deal with it, there's more important things to > > worry > about'. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Misi Mladoniczky" > > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:42:39 AM > > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > Hi, > > > > Maybe you can use RRR|LoginConv, which is a tool that we give away for > > free: > > https://www.rrr.se/cgi/tools/main#rrrLoginConv > > > > It can walk through every record of your system, and replace the old > > login name with a new one. It even handles Status-History, > > Diary-fields and row- level access control where you have specified > > login names in the 112/60xxx fields. > > > > When you are removing a login name, change it from "peter" to > > "x1peter" or something like that. In this way you can keep all > > historical data and still reuse a login name. > > > > Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP > > 2011) > > > > Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): > > * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. > > * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy > logs. > > Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. > > > > > This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA > > > against a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy > > > username to match the external one, but then there is the potential > > > for the problems mentioned below. > > > > > > There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of > > > course - but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? > > > I suppose I could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC > > > lookup after every login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to > > > trigger the workflow on > > > login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new > > > record & retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on > > > any > > > requests created by the user. But then how to allow
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
If an environment is re-using logins in general - how sensitive can the data from one jdoe to the next be? Guess It's just the hillbilly in me that doesn't have an appreciation for all this hidden data stuff. - Original Message - From: "David Durling" To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 10:07:11 AM Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's I understand, this is a lot of effort we're talking about; not sure I really want to do it. But it's not necessarily a minor issue if "jdoe" had access to semi-sensitive or at least personally-related info, leaves employment, then a year later another "jdoe" comes on board and inadvertently gains access to info they shouldn't see. On the other hand, perhaps this minor risk is worth it - just something I have to determine locally. David > -Original Message- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:54 AM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > I've never been a fan of changing data after the fact - the new person would > most likely have a different PPL record number and the actual name may also > be a bit different (different middle initial, etc). Most of the ticket info > has > names as well as login ID. > > I think we spend way too much time worrying about minor items and trying > to devise elaborate work arounds - my response to the folks asking the > questions is 'deal with it, there's more important things to worry about'. > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Misi Mladoniczky" > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:42:39 AM > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > Hi, > > Maybe you can use RRR|LoginConv, which is a tool that we give away for > free: > https://www.rrr.se/cgi/tools/main#rrrLoginConv > > It can walk through every record of your system, and replace the old login > name with a new one. It even handles Status-History, Diary-fields and row- > level access control where you have specified login names in the 112/60xxx > fields. > > When you are removing a login name, change it from "peter" to "x1peter" or > something like that. In this way you can keep all historical data and still > reuse > a login name. > > Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) > > Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): > * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. > * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. > Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. > > > This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA > > against a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy > > username to match the external one, but then there is the potential > > for the problems mentioned below. > > > > There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of > > course - but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? I > > suppose I could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC lookup > > after every login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to trigger > > the workflow on > > login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new record > > & retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on any > > requests created by the user. But then how to allow-disallow access to > > the records? Not sure it's workable. Does anyone have a good way to > > handle this? > > > > David Durling > > University of Georgia > > > > > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM > > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > ** > > It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical > > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking > > any EULA... > > > > However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a > > bad idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system > > is referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique > > identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login > > ID from the other in the event that you have two login ID's with the > > same value, one of
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Hi, Yes, it works with submitter-mode locked, because we use the API-call ARMergeEntry, which lets you overwrite this field. It will also leave Modify-Date and Modified-By intact, which is important sometimes. Filters are not run either, as the skip-merge-filter flag is set. Otherwise all kind of things could happen... I originally wrote this piece of code for a customer who changed all of their login ids at the same time, so the input can be a list: miz = misi01 peter = pete05 ... Another use is when someone gets married and changes his or her name. It is not a very complicated piece of code. It just reads all character data in fields less than 255 characters, and performs an exact match. The Status-History, Diary-fields is handled in a slightly different way, and the 112/60xxx is handled by doing quoted replacement. Only fields that actually will need changing is re-important, and if you do it for a few users only, most of the records will not be touched. It takes time to run though, as the tool needs to read all records in the system. Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. > Misi, > > That is interesting! Perhaps that could be run a couple of times a year, > if I kept track of the IDs that have left in the meantime. > > What about the Submitter (field 2) if we're running with Submitter Locked? > Would it be changeable? > > David > >> -Original Message- >> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) >> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Misi Mladoniczky >> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:43 AM >> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >> Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's >> >> Hi, >> >> Maybe you can use RRR|LoginConv, which is a tool that we give away for >> free: >> https://www.rrr.se/cgi/tools/main#rrrLoginConv >> >> It can walk through every record of your system, and replace the old >> login >> name with a new one. It even handles Status-History, Diary-fields and >> row- >> level access control where you have specified login names in the >> 112/60xxx >> fields. >> >> When you are removing a login name, change it from "peter" to "x1peter" >> or >> something like that. In this way you can keep all historical data and >> still reuse >> a login name. >> >> Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP >> 2011) >> >> Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): >> * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. >> * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy >> logs. >> Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at >> http://rrr.se. >> >> > This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA >> > against a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy >> > username to match the external one, but then there is the potential >> > for the problems mentioned below. >> > >> > There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of >> > course - but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? I >> > suppose I could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC lookup >> > after every login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to trigger >> > the workflow on >> > login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new record >> > & retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on any >> > requests created by the user. But then how to allow-disallow access >> to >> > the records? Not sure it's workable. Does anyone have a good way to >> > handle this? >> > >> > David Durling >> > University of Georgia >> > >> > >> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) >> > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza >> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM >> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >> > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's >> > >> > ** >> > It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical >> > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking >> > any EULA... >> > >> > However for reasons mentioned in the original po
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
I understand, this is a lot of effort we're talking about; not sure I really want to do it. But it's not necessarily a minor issue if "jdoe" had access to semi-sensitive or at least personally-related info, leaves employment, then a year later another "jdoe" comes on board and inadvertently gains access to info they shouldn't see. On the other hand, perhaps this minor risk is worth it - just something I have to determine locally. David > -Original Message- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:54 AM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > I've never been a fan of changing data after the fact - the new person would > most likely have a different PPL record number and the actual name may also > be a bit different (different middle initial, etc). Most of the ticket info > has > names as well as login ID. > > I think we spend way too much time worrying about minor items and trying > to devise elaborate work arounds - my response to the folks asking the > questions is 'deal with it, there's more important things to worry about'. > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Misi Mladoniczky" > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:42:39 AM > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > Hi, > > Maybe you can use RRR|LoginConv, which is a tool that we give away for > free: > https://www.rrr.se/cgi/tools/main#rrrLoginConv > > It can walk through every record of your system, and replace the old login > name with a new one. It even handles Status-History, Diary-fields and row- > level access control where you have specified login names in the 112/60xxx > fields. > > When you are removing a login name, change it from "peter" to "x1peter" or > something like that. In this way you can keep all historical data and still > reuse > a login name. > > Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) > > Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): > * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. > * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. > Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. > > > This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA > > against a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy > > username to match the external one, but then there is the potential > > for the problems mentioned below. > > > > There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of > > course - but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? I > > suppose I could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC lookup > > after every login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to trigger > > the workflow on > > login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new record > > & retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on any > > requests created by the user. But then how to allow-disallow access to > > the records? Not sure it's workable. Does anyone have a good way to > > handle this? > > > > David Durling > > University of Georgia > > > > > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM > > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > ** > > It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical > > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking > > any EULA... > > > > However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a > > bad idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system > > is referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique > > identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login > > ID from the other in the event that you have two login ID's with the > > same value, one of which is retired and the other active.. > > > > So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to > > be created to something slightly different. > > > > Joe > > > > From: patrick zandi<mailto:remedy...@gmail.com> > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM > > Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general > > To: arslist@ARSLIST
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Misi, That is interesting! Perhaps that could be run a couple of times a year, if I kept track of the IDs that have left in the meantime. What about the Submitter (field 2) if we're running with Submitter Locked? Would it be changeable? David > -Original Message- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Misi Mladoniczky > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:43 AM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > Hi, > > Maybe you can use RRR|LoginConv, which is a tool that we give away for > free: > https://www.rrr.se/cgi/tools/main#rrrLoginConv > > It can walk through every record of your system, and replace the old login > name with a new one. It even handles Status-History, Diary-fields and row- > level access control where you have specified login names in the 112/60xxx > fields. > > When you are removing a login name, change it from "peter" to "x1peter" or > something like that. In this way you can keep all historical data and still > reuse > a login name. > > Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) > > Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): > * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. > * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. > Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. > > > This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA > > against a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy > > username to match the external one, but then there is the potential > > for the problems mentioned below. > > > > There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of > > course - but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? I > > suppose I could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC lookup > > after every login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to trigger > > the workflow on > > login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new record > > & retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on any > > requests created by the user. But then how to allow-disallow access to > > the records? Not sure it's workable. Does anyone have a good way to > > handle this? > > > > David Durling > > University of Georgia > > > > > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM > > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > ** > > It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical > > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking > > any EULA... > > > > However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a > > bad idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system > > is referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique > > identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login > > ID from the other in the event that you have two login ID's with the > > same value, one of which is retired and the other active.. > > > > So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to > > be created to something slightly different. > > > > Joe > > > > From: patrick zandi<mailto:remedy...@gmail.com> > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM > > Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general > > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> > > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. > > License violation. > > > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark > > mailto:david.m.cl...@tn.gov>> wrote: > > ** > > Confirmed. Don't do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. > > > > > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of > > Jase Brandon > > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM > > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> > > Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > ** Hello All, > > What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? > > My concern is this =
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
I've never been a fan of changing data after the fact - the new person would most likely have a different PPL record number and the actual name may also be a bit different (different middle initial, etc). Most of the ticket info has names as well as login ID. I think we spend way too much time worrying about minor items and trying to devise elaborate work arounds - my response to the folks asking the questions is 'deal with it, there's more important things to worry about'. - Original Message - From: "Misi Mladoniczky" To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 9:42:39 AM Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's Hi, Maybe you can use RRR|LoginConv, which is a tool that we give away for free: https://www.rrr.se/cgi/tools/main#rrrLoginConv It can walk through every record of your system, and replace the old login name with a new one. It even handles Status-History, Diary-fields and row-level access control where you have specified login names in the 112/60xxx fields. When you are removing a login name, change it from "peter" to "x1peter" or something like that. In this way you can keep all historical data and still reuse a login name. Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. > This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA against > a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy username to > match the external one, but then there is the potential for the problems > mentioned below. > > There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of course - > but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? I suppose I > could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC lookup after every > login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to trigger the workflow on > login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new record & > retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on any > requests created by the user. But then how to allow-disallow access to > the records? Not sure it's workable. Does anyone have a good way to > handle this? > > David Durling > University of Georgia > > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** > It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking any > EULA... > > However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a bad > idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system is > referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique > identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login ID > from the other in the event that you have two login ID's with the same > value, one of which is retired and the other active.. > > So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to be > created to something slightly different. > > Joe > > From: patrick zandi<mailto:remedy...@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM > Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License > violation. > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark > mailto:david.m.cl...@tn.gov>> wrote: > ** > Confirmed. Don't do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. > > ____________ > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of Jase > Brandon > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> > Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** Hello All, > What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? > My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. > That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support > group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an > auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user'
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Hi, Maybe you can use RRR|LoginConv, which is a tool that we give away for free: https://www.rrr.se/cgi/tools/main#rrrLoginConv It can walk through every record of your system, and replace the old login name with a new one. It even handles Status-History, Diary-fields and row-level access control where you have specified login names in the 112/60xxx fields. When you are removing a login name, change it from "peter" to "x1peter" or something like that. In this way you can keep all historical data and still reuse a login name. Best Regards - Misi, RRR AB, http://www.rrr.se (ARSList MVP 2011) Products from RRR Scandinavia (Best R.O.I. Award at WWRUG10/11): * RRR|License - Not enough Remedy licenses? Save money by optimizing. * RRR|Log - Performance issues or elusive bugs? Analyze your Remedy logs. Find these products, and many free tools and utilities, at http://rrr.se. > This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA against > a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy username to > match the external one, but then there is the potential for the problems > mentioned below. > > There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of course - > but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? I suppose I > could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC lookup after every > login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to trigger the workflow on > login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new record & > retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on any > requests created by the user. But then how to allow-disallow access to > the records? Not sure it's workable. Does anyone have a good way to > handle this? > > David Durling > University of Georgia > > > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** > It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking any > EULA... > > However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a bad > idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system is > referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique > identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login ID > from the other in the event that you have two login ID's with the same > value, one of which is retired and the other active.. > > So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to be > created to something slightly different. > > Joe > > From: patrick zandi<mailto:remedy...@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM > Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> > Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License > violation. > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark > mailto:david.m.cl...@tn.gov>> wrote: > ** > Confirmed. Don't do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. > > ____ > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of Jase > Brandon > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> > Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** Hello All, > What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? > My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. > That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support > group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an > auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", > they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, > different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem > to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past > and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? > > Thanks, > > Jase > > -- > Patrick Zandi > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com<http://www.wwrug.com> ARSlist: "Where the > Answers Are"_ > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
This has bothered me for a while: What do to if one is using AREA against a system that re-users usernames, and you want the Remedy username to match the external one, but then there is the potential for the problems mentioned below. There is a unique id for each account in the external system, of course - but not sure how I could leverage that. Any bright ideas? I suppose I could store the unique id in Remedy and do an ARDBC lookup after every login (would maybe have to set up an init-form to trigger the workflow on login) to see if it matches. If it doesn't match, create a new record & retire the old, and use this record to stamp this unique id on any requests created by the user. But then how to allow-disallow access to the records? Not sure it's workable. Does anyone have a good way to handle this? David Durling University of Georgia From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Joe Martin D'Souza Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:17 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking any EULA... However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a bad idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system is referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login ID from the other in the event that you have two login ID's with the same value, one of which is retired and the other active.. So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to be created to something slightly different. Joe From: patrick zandi<mailto:remedy...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License violation. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark mailto:david.m.cl...@tn.gov>> wrote: ** Confirmed. Don't do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of Jase Brandon Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Hello All, What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? Thanks, Jase -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com<http://www.wwrug.com> ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Hello All, Thanks for all the replies! That's what I thought... I remember discussing this in the past and the answer was a plethora of reasons for "DON'T DO THAT"! :-) Thanks Again - I will convey this to the chiefs and write my "cover your butt" email recommending this practice not be followed going forward. :-) On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:26 PM, David M. Clark wrote: > ** > > Jase, do your Remedy users have network login ID’s? If so, use those. > > ** ** > > The burden of uniqueness is then removed from you and placed upon your > network team. > > ** ** > > -D > > ** ** > -- > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 2:22 PM > > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > ** ** > > ** That is what I was thinking.. > however I love that user1 submited a ticket, and user1 submitted a change > request but user1 is not here any longer, because user1 submitted an srm to > have user1's account removed after his departure.. > > > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Joe Martin D'Souza > wrote: > > ** > > It would not be a EULA violation – as long as its not 2 physical > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking any > EULA... > > > > However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a bad > idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system is > referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique > identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login ID > from the other in the event that you have two login ID’s with the same > value, one of which is retired and the other active.. > > > > So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to be > created to something slightly different. > > **** > > Joe**** > > **** > > *From:* patrick zandi > > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM > > *Newsgroups:* public.remedy.arsystem.general > > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License > violation. > > > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark > wrote: > > ** > > Confirmed. Don’t do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. > > > -- > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Jase Brandon > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > > > ** Hello All, > What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? > My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. > That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support > group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an > auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they > are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, > different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem > to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and > the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? > > Thanks, > > Jase > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Jase, do your Remedy users have network login ID's? If so, use those. The burden of uniqueness is then removed from you and placed upon your network team. -D From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 2:22 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** That is what I was thinking.. however I love that user1 submited a ticket, and user1 submitted a change request but user1 is not here any longer, because user1 submitted an srm to have user1's account removed after his departure.. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Joe Martin D'Souza mailto:jdso...@shyle.net>> wrote: ** It would not be a EULA violation - as long as its not 2 physical individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking any EULA... However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a bad idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system is referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login ID from the other in the event that you have two login ID's with the same value, one of which is retired and the other active.. So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to be created to something slightly different. Joe From: patrick zandi<mailto:remedy...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License violation. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark mailto:david.m.cl...@tn.gov>> wrote: ** Confirmed. Don't do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of Jase Brandon Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Hello All, What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? Thanks, Jase -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com<http://www.wwrug.com> ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
That is what I was thinking.. however I love that user1 submited a ticket, and user1 submitted a change request but user1 is not here any longer, because user1 submitted an srm to have user1's account removed after his departure.. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Joe Martin D'Souza wrote: > ** > It would not be a EULA violation – as long as its not 2 physical > individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking any > EULA... > > However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a bad > idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system is > referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique > identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login ID > from the other in the event that you have two login ID’s with the same > value, one of which is retired and the other active.. > > So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to be > created to something slightly different. > > Joe > > *From:* patrick zandi > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM > *Newsgroups:* public.remedy.arsystem.general > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License > violation. > > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark wrote: > >> ** >> >> Confirmed. Don’t do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. >> >> >> -- >> >> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Jase Brandon >> *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM >> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >> *Subject:* 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's >> >> >> >> ** Hello All, >> What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? >> My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 >> months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new >> support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. >> Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = >> "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a >> login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - >> right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion >> in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jase >> >> -- >> Patrick Zandi >> >> _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
It would not be a EULA violation – as long as its not 2 physical individuals using the same ID at the same time, they are not breaking any EULA... However for reasons mentioned in the original post itself, this is a bad idea. Yes you will see all records since a lot within the system is referenced by the Login ID. Remedy does not have any other unique identifier that is actually used within searches to separate one login ID from the other in the event that you have two login ID’s with the same value, one of which is retired and the other active.. So bottom-line, if a match is found, rename the new ID that needs to be created to something slightly different. Joe From: patrick zandi Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 3:07 PM Newsgroups: public.remedy.arsystem.general To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License violation. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark wrote: ** Confirmed. Don’t do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. -- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jase Brandon Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Hello All, What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? Thanks, Jase -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
I don't think he was talking about generic ID'sI think he was talking about a scenario along the lines of John Doe, his ID is doej, works in the system for 6 months and then leaves the companyhis ID is 'removed' from the environmentthen 6 months later his brother Jack starts there...based on the corp standard, his ID would also be doejand being John doesn't work there anymoredoej is now available -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jon Slaven Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Just from a managerial standpoint, this is an auditing nightmare. There's no benefit or cost savings from recycling generic user ID's, except maybe a couple minutes of setting up the account. Thanks, Jon _ Jon Slaven | Amway | 616-787-7132 | jon.sla...@amway.com From:"David M. Clark" To:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Date: 06/25/2012 03:06 PM Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's Sent by:"Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)" ** Confirmed. Don’t do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG <mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> ] On Behalf Of Jase Brandon Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Hello All, What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? Thanks, Jase _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Just from a managerial standpoint, this is an auditing nightmare. There's no benefit or cost savings from recycling generic user ID's, except maybe a couple minutes of setting up the account. Thanks, Jon _ Jon Slaven | Amway | 616-787-7132 | jon.sla...@amway.com From: "David M. Clark" To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Date: 06/25/2012 03:06 PM Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's Sent by:"Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)" ** Confirmed. Don’t do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jase Brandon Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Hello All, What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? Thanks, Jase _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Might be a EULA violation as well.. May want to check on that.. License violation. On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:04 PM, David M. Clark wrote: > ** > > Confirmed. Don’t do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. > > ** ** > -- > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Jase Brandon > *Sent:* Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's > > ** ** > > ** Hello All, > What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? > My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. > That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support > group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an > auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they > are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, > different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem > to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and > the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? > > Thanks, > > Jase > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Confirmed. Don't do that. For all the reasons you mention and more. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jase Brandon Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 1:49 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: 7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's ** Hello All, What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? Thanks, Jase _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
7.6.04 - Question about re-using Login Id's
Hello All, What is the general consensus regarding re use of login id's? My concern is this = Login ID "User1" is used by an employee for 6 months. That employee leaves the company. Someone new gets hired, in a new support group, and our support center then reuses "User1" as a login id. Now if an auditor queries for all data modified by 'last update user' = "User1", they are going to get everything from both users who shared a login id, different data, different support groups, basically a mess - right? I seem to remember having the "don't re-use login id's" discussion in the past and the answer was "don't do that" - thoughts anyone? Thanks, Jase ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
