Re: ITSM ERD

[Danny Kellett]

lol

 

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Axton
Sent: 13 July 2011 16:37
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: ITSM ERD

 

** You might be lucky to have it look this simple:

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_igHirnXNoBY/TU6_TmwddeI/Azc/b0dy8ZmgB6M/s1
600/Gephi%2BNetwork%2BDiagram.png

http://scienceresearchprojects.com/images/control_theory_complex_networks_so
cial_network.gif

 

Axton Grams

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Rick Cook  wrote:

** There is an ERD of sorts of the base AR System metadata forms, I think,
in the Database guide.  You may have to look a couple versions back for it,
but I remember seeing one.  Above that, I agree with Axton - it would be so
complex it would make the CMDB CDM look like a kid's chalk drawing of his
dog.

Rick

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Axton  wrote:

** Generating an ERD for Remedy applications is going to be problematic.
ERDs make some assumptions that don't necessarily apply to Remedy
applications:

- Data normalization (apps that operate on a normalized data model are
tricky to write due the tight binding between the UI and the data model;
couple this with the limited capabilities of accessing referenced data [a
join to a join to a join to a join], and you have a scenario where
designing and app with a normalized data model is difficult and time/cost
prohibitive).

- Referential integrity (through constraints and cascading operations) is
necessary for a true ERD to be reliable in terms of what it's trying to
portray.  These things can be enforced through filters, to varying degrees
of success, but trying to map what's in your filters to an ERD is probably
not feasible, at least in a systematic way.

 

There are some things that an ERD is not designed to represent that Remedy
frequently does:

- push fields (to some other form)

- set fields (from some other form)

- value selection through menus

 

ITMasters used to generate the closest thing to an ERD that could be
represented, but for those of you who have been around long enough to know
what that looked like against the then current version of Help Desk, it was
nearly impossible to read due to the complexity of the model that was
rendered.

 

Axton Grams

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Support  wrote:

** 

Hi Gary,

You can have a look at ARSmarts (www.arsmarts.com).

ARSmarts generates ERD for any AR System based application (see the Grapher
module on this page http://www.arsmarts.com/Screenshots).
ARSmarts diagrams are clickable, you can move Forms, printable, can be saved
as pictures, can be documented, .

You can register on our website (http://www.arsmarts.com/Register) to gain
access to the evaluation version of ARSmarts, and obviously contact me
(kais.albas...@arsmarts.com) for information, demo, 

Best regards.

Kaïs



On 12/07/2011 22:57, Gary Dries wrote: 

Lister's,
 
Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?
 
BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMC® Remedy® IT Service
Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
I could find.
 
I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk
 
I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
2500 plus tables
 
Thanks in advance for any assistance.

_attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ 

 

_attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ 


_attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ 

 

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Re: ITSM ERD

[Support]

**


  
  
I totally agree with Axton: the ERD concept does not really apply to
Remedy.
However, as ARSmarts offers similar functionality to the ITMasters
product, we think we are quite close to an ERD.

It is also correct that an "ERD" of ITSM7x is rather heavy, but we
implemented a number of functionalities that make these graphs more
readable.  Anybody interested should give it a try.  The evaluation
version is free (just register on our website) and we will certainly
appreciate your feedback.

Kaïs
kais.albas...@arsmarts.com

On 13/07/2011 16:35, Axton wrote:
**
  Generating an ERD for Remedy applications is going to be
  problematic.  ERDs make some assumptions that don't necessarily
  apply to Remedy applications:
  - Data normalization (apps that operate on a normalized data
model are tricky to write due the tight binding between the UI
and the data model; couple this with the limited capabilities of
accessing referenced data [a join to a join to a join to a
join], and you have a scenario where designing and app with
a normalized data model is difficult and time/cost prohibitive).
  - Referential integrity (through constraints and cascading
operations) is necessary for a true ERD to be reliable in terms
of what it's trying to portray.  These things can be enforced
through filters, to varying degrees of success, but trying to
map what's in your filters to an ERD is probably not feasible,
at least in a systematic way.
  
  
  There are some things that an ERD is not designed to
represent that Remedy frequently does:
  - push fields (to some other form)
  - set fields (from some other form)
  - value selection through menus
  
  
  ITMasters used to generate the closest thing to an ERD that
could be represented, but for those of you who have been around
long enough to know what that looked like against the then
current version of Help Desk, it was nearly impossible to read
due to the complexity of the model that was rendered.
  
  
  Axton Grams

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:06 AM,
  Support 
  wrote:
  
**
 Hi Gary,
  
  You can have a look at ARSmarts (www.arsmarts.com).
  
  ARSmarts generates ERD for any AR System based application
  (see the Grapher module on this page http://www.arsmarts.com/Screenshots).
  ARSmarts diagrams are clickable, you can move Forms,
  printable, can be saved as pictures, can be documented,
  .
  
  You can register on our website (http://www.arsmarts.com/Register)
  to gain access to the evaluation version of ARSmarts, and
  obviously contact me (kais.albas...@arsmarts.com)
  for information, demo, 
  
  Best regards.
  
  Kaïs
  

On 12/07/2011 22:57, Gary Dries wrote:

  Lister's,

Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?

BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMC® Remedy® IT Service
Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
I could find.

I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk

I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
2500 plus tables

Thanks in advance for any assistance.


  

_attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com
ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_
  


  
  _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_

  

_attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com  ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_

Re: ITSM ERD

[Axton]

You might be lucky to have it look this simple:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_igHirnXNoBY/TU6_TmwddeI/Azc/b0dy8ZmgB6M/s1600/Gephi%2BNetwork%2BDiagram.png
http://scienceresearchprojects.com/images/control_theory_complex_networks_social_network.gif

Axton Grams

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Rick Cook  wrote:

> ** There is an ERD of sorts of the base AR System metadata forms, I think,
> in the Database guide.  You may have to look a couple versions back for it,
> but I remember seeing one.  Above that, I agree with Axton - it would be so
> complex it would make the CMDB CDM look like a kid's chalk drawing of his
> dog.
>
> Rick
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Axton  wrote:
>
>> ** Generating an ERD for Remedy applications is going to be problematic.
>>  ERDs make some assumptions that don't necessarily apply to Remedy
>> applications:
>> - Data normalization (apps that operate on a normalized data model are
>> tricky to write due the tight binding between the UI and the data model;
>> couple this with the limited capabilities of accessing referenced data [a
>> join to a join to a join to a join], and you have a scenario where
>> designing and app with a normalized data model is difficult and time/cost
>> prohibitive).
>> - Referential integrity (through constraints and cascading operations) is
>> necessary for a true ERD to be reliable in terms of what it's trying to
>> portray.  These things can be enforced through filters, to varying degrees
>> of success, but trying to map what's in your filters to an ERD is probably
>> not feasible, at least in a systematic way.
>>
>> There are some things that an ERD is not designed to represent that Remedy
>> frequently does:
>> - push fields (to some other form)
>> - set fields (from some other form)
>> - value selection through menus
>>
>> ITMasters used to generate the closest thing to an ERD that could be
>> represented, but for those of you who have been around long enough to know
>> what that looked like against the then current version of Help Desk, it was
>> nearly impossible to read due to the complexity of the model that was
>> rendered.
>>
>> Axton Grams
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Support  wrote:
>>
>>> ** **
>>> Hi Gary,
>>>
>>> You can have a look at ARSmarts (www.arsmarts.com).
>>>
>>> ARSmarts generates ERD for any AR System based application (see the
>>> Grapher module on this page http://www.arsmarts.com/Screenshots).
>>> ARSmarts diagrams are clickable, you can move Forms, printable, can be
>>> saved as pictures, can be documented, .
>>>
>>> You can register on our website (http://www.arsmarts.com/Register) to
>>> gain access to the evaluation version of ARSmarts, and obviously contact me
>>> (kais.albas...@arsmarts.com) for information, demo, 
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>> Kaïs
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/07/2011 22:57, Gary Dries wrote:
>>>
>>> Lister's,
>>>
>>> Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
>>> of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?
>>>
>>> BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMC® Remedy® IT Service
>>> Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
>>> I could find.
>>>
>>> I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk
>>>
>>> I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
>>> 2500 plus tables
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>>>
>>>  _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_
>>
>>
>> _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_
>>
>
> _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_
>

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Re: ITSM ERD

[Rick Cook]

There is an ERD of sorts of the base AR System metadata forms, I think, in
the Database guide.  You may have to look a couple versions back for it, but
I remember seeing one.  Above that, I agree with Axton - it would be so
complex it would make the CMDB CDM look like a kid's chalk drawing of his
dog.

Rick

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Axton  wrote:

> ** Generating an ERD for Remedy applications is going to be problematic.
>  ERDs make some assumptions that don't necessarily apply to Remedy
> applications:
> - Data normalization (apps that operate on a normalized data model are
> tricky to write due the tight binding between the UI and the data model;
> couple this with the limited capabilities of accessing referenced data [a
> join to a join to a join to a join], and you have a scenario where
> designing and app with a normalized data model is difficult and time/cost
> prohibitive).
> - Referential integrity (through constraints and cascading operations) is
> necessary for a true ERD to be reliable in terms of what it's trying to
> portray.  These things can be enforced through filters, to varying degrees
> of success, but trying to map what's in your filters to an ERD is probably
> not feasible, at least in a systematic way.
>
> There are some things that an ERD is not designed to represent that Remedy
> frequently does:
> - push fields (to some other form)
> - set fields (from some other form)
> - value selection through menus
>
> ITMasters used to generate the closest thing to an ERD that could be
> represented, but for those of you who have been around long enough to know
> what that looked like against the then current version of Help Desk, it was
> nearly impossible to read due to the complexity of the model that was
> rendered.
>
> Axton Grams
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Support  wrote:
>
>> ** **
>> Hi Gary,
>>
>> You can have a look at ARSmarts (www.arsmarts.com).
>>
>> ARSmarts generates ERD for any AR System based application (see the
>> Grapher module on this page http://www.arsmarts.com/Screenshots).
>> ARSmarts diagrams are clickable, you can move Forms, printable, can be
>> saved as pictures, can be documented, .
>>
>> You can register on our website (http://www.arsmarts.com/Register) to
>> gain access to the evaluation version of ARSmarts, and obviously contact me
>> (kais.albas...@arsmarts.com) for information, demo, 
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> Kaïs
>>
>>
>> On 12/07/2011 22:57, Gary Dries wrote:
>>
>> Lister's,
>>
>> Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
>> of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?
>>
>> BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMC® Remedy® IT Service
>> Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
>> I could find.
>>
>> I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk
>>
>> I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
>> 2500 plus tables
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>>
>>  _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_
>
>
> _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_

___
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Re: ITSM ERD

[Axton]

Generating an ERD for Remedy applications is going to be problematic.  ERDs
make some assumptions that don't necessarily apply to Remedy applications:
- Data normalization (apps that operate on a normalized data model are
tricky to write due the tight binding between the UI and the data model;
couple this with the limited capabilities of accessing referenced data [a
join to a join to a join to a join], and you have a scenario where
designing and app with a normalized data model is difficult and time/cost
prohibitive).
- Referential integrity (through constraints and cascading operations) is
necessary for a true ERD to be reliable in terms of what it's trying to
portray.  These things can be enforced through filters, to varying degrees
of success, but trying to map what's in your filters to an ERD is probably
not feasible, at least in a systematic way.

There are some things that an ERD is not designed to represent that Remedy
frequently does:
- push fields (to some other form)
- set fields (from some other form)
- value selection through menus

ITMasters used to generate the closest thing to an ERD that could be
represented, but for those of you who have been around long enough to know
what that looked like against the then current version of Help Desk, it was
nearly impossible to read due to the complexity of the model that was
rendered.

Axton Grams

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Support  wrote:

> ** **
> Hi Gary,
>
> You can have a look at ARSmarts (www.arsmarts.com).
>
> ARSmarts generates ERD for any AR System based application (see the Grapher
> module on this page http://www.arsmarts.com/Screenshots).
> ARSmarts diagrams are clickable, you can move Forms, printable, can be
> saved as pictures, can be documented, .
>
> You can register on our website (http://www.arsmarts.com/Register) to gain
> access to the evaluation version of ARSmarts, and obviously contact me (
> kais.albas...@arsmarts.com) for information, demo, 
>
> Best regards.
>
> Kaïs
>
>
> On 12/07/2011 22:57, Gary Dries wrote:
>
> Lister's,
>
> Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
> of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?
>
> BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMC® Remedy® IT Service
> Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
> I could find.
>
> I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk
>
> I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
> 2500 plus tables
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>
>  _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_

___
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Re: ITSM ERD

[Support]

**


  
  
Hi Gary,

You can have a look at ARSmarts (www.arsmarts.com).

ARSmarts generates ERD for any AR System based application (see the
Grapher module on this page http://www.arsmarts.com/Screenshots).
ARSmarts diagrams are clickable, you can move Forms, printable, can
be saved as pictures, can be documented, .

You can register on our website (http://www.arsmarts.com/Register)
to gain access to the evaluation version of ARSmarts, and obviously
contact me (kais.albas...@arsmarts.com) for information, demo, 

Best regards.

Kaïs

On 12/07/2011 22:57, Gary Dries wrote:

  Lister's,

Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?

BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMC® Remedy® IT Service
Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
I could find.

I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk

I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
2500 plus tables

Thanks in advance for any assistance.


  

_attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com  ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_

Re: ITSM ERD

[Elry]

Hi Gary...

I don't think there is an ERD in the traditional sense for ITSM.  The
only way one could create an ERD would be to treat each form as a
virtual table.  With that being said - we created a type of ERD for
ITSP4 (the predecessor for current ITSM Suite).  That ERD was massive
and time consuming.  We had to create some proprietary methods for
representing tables fields and some of the other components.  Even
then - we still did not feel that we captured all the elements.

I would be very interested to see if there is a "ERD" for the ITSM
suite.

We abandoned the notion of trying to create ERD's - and replaced it
with the Abydos Analyzer.  We found that we could use this tool to
discover just about all any developer needs to know in terms of what
is related to any given form.

And no - I don't work for Abydos.  Analyzer is just a good tool for
looking at ERD type relationships.


On Jul 13, 1:39 am, Mark Herring  wrote:
> You can use Abydos Analyser to generate ERDs for any ITSM application by
> using the Form Relationship Diagram.
> Seewww.abydos-workflow.comfor more information and free trial.
>
> Mark Herring
> Abydos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Gary Dries [mailto:gary.dr...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 12 July 2011 21:57
> Subject: ITSM ERD
>
> Lister's,
>
> Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
> of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?
>
> BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMCR RemedyR IT Service
> Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
> I could find.
>
> I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk
>
> I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
> 2500 plus tables
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
> --
> GARY DRIES
> Remedy Administration and Development
> Contractor - HP Enterprise Services
> US Army
>
> ___ _
> ___
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>
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Re: ITSM ERD

[Mark Herring]

You can use Abydos Analyser to generate ERDs for any ITSM application by
using the Form Relationship Diagram.
See www.abydos-workflow.com for more information and free trial.

Mark Herring
Abydos

-Original Message-
From: Gary Dries [mailto:gary.dr...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 12 July 2011 21:57
Subject: ITSM ERD

Lister's,

Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?

BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMCR RemedyR IT Service
Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
I could find.

I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk

I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
2500 plus tables

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
-- 
GARY DRIES
Remedy Administration and Development
Contractor - HP Enterprise Services
US Army


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ITSM ERD

[Gary Dries]

Lister's,

Has anyone produced a full or segmented by module ERD for any version
of ITSM from 7.0.01 to 7.6.04?

BMC has not produce anything as good as the BMC® Remedy® IT Service
Management 7.0 Architecture document for any more recent version that
I could find.

I have made a request to BMC via my Sales Rep and their Help Desk

I know this is a huge ERD with 7.1 at 1600 plus table to 7.6.04 to
2500 plus tables

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
-- 
GARY DRIES
Remedy Administration and Development
Contractor - HP Enterprise Services
US Army

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