Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
How do you think the drop in Real Estate will affect the redevelopment plans? __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park nj real estate United state flag Asbury park nj Asbury park real estate United state travel Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
x-tad-bigger Tommy and others want to turn this into a purely residential town. /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger Tommy points to that specific movement over the entire NJ shore. /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger Last year or so I pointed out the folly in that, which many places /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger are discovering to their own chagrine. If you only have residences /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger what is your only source of revenue? Residential real estate taxes. /x-tad-bigger Asbury Park has a better chance of making tourism work than any other local Shore town in Monmouth County for one reason -- name recognition. The town is known throughout the ENTIRE world for tourism, the beach, the boardwalk, and the music. That's why it's so upsetting to people like me when the idea that it just can't work anymore is said. The fact is that Asbury Park hasn't TRIED to make it work since the 1970s. And there's one incredible piece of marketing available now that wasn't available then - The Internet. We could have more people know about the new Asbury Park in one week than would have known about it in a decade. BTW, Fred -- I know those things WERE in the plan. I just sincerely doubt we'll ever see that hotel or entertainment district. Tommy, what's your take on it? It sounds to me like those things were never meant to be part of the plan but to appease people like me who think tourism should still be part of Asbury Park. If they do add a hotel and entertainment district, won't that detract from the mission of moving Asbury towards residential use? BTW, got my first messages from RidKid in a while. It's amazing how gutless somebody can be. The person reads every message and fires off emails but never with a real email address because they are too scared to debate anyone. Hey RidKid - why don't you post something on this board? Too scared huh? Upstage Magazine - New Jersey's Premier Arts Entertainment Magazine PO Box 140, Spring Lake, NJ 07762(732) 280-3305 http://www.UpstageMagazine.com
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
Your assumption is that all the new condo buyers will be people wanting to raise families in the New Asbury. How do you know that a lot of the new people are not single professionals or gay singles or couples? Hinge wrote on 10/17/2006, 9:38 AM: Yeah, I work in Bay Head, and whenever possible I go to the Pt. Pleasant boardwalk for a lunchtime walk. That's when I can get a parking place. The boardwalk there is and has always been successful. And it doesn't just benefit the business's there. It's also the parking lots, hotels, restaraunts and little shops. Asbury has none of that, but at one time, that's what drove it's economy. Now, Asbury is headed in another direction...boring family town. I know that many people on this board see things from a real estate point of view, because that's what they do for a living. And they'd like to see housing grow in Asbury. What's sad to me is there is nothing to brag to the rest of the world about left in Asbury. No reason to tell friends to come visit because it's such a great place. The boardwalk is a joke. The unused Convention Hall and Paramount just stands there, empty accept for a handful of times each year. I think it's great that they'll start showing movies in the Paramount again, but somehow it feels like it's a little too late for people to even care. Why come to scary crime ridden Asbury to see a movie when you can go to Red Bank, see a movie and have dinner all within walking distance. Last weekend, I saw a show on Fuse about a metal concert at Convention Hall, and they gave a backstage tour, showing the dressing rooms painted in the same ugly yellow and blue of the boardwalk...and the people on the show commented on how weird and ugly it was in there. It made me cringe. So now we face a future here in Asbury where housing has replace good old fun. And I guess with that housing will have more retail. Great. Boring. Believe it or not, there still exists people in this world who could give a shit about shopping. Personally, having a zillion shiny new condos in Asbury means nothing to me. If I was in the market, it sure wouldn't be in a town with sometimes 2 shootings a day. And, there is literally nothing fun to do here anymore. Asbury has become a bore. For me, the highlight of my week in Asbury is working at The Saint every Friday, where I get to listen to great music and hang out with my friends. Other then that, I hole myself up in my apt and think of where else I can go on weekends for a little fun. Maybe i'm jaded because I lived near NYC for 5 years, and had multiple playgrounds right in my backyard. I had a great dog run to visit in Hoboken on the weekends, and the Union Square Green Market was always on my agenda. In conclusion, I think that Tommy needs to go find some other titles to wear, because his desire to be a "historian" has been completely negated by his BS opinions about the history of Asbury. You can't be a historian without loving the history you are sharing. Clearly, he doesn't. He thinks Tilly is ugly. He doesn't care that what was the life blood of Asbury, entertainment, is pretty much gone. He thinks that the most entertaining thing about the future is housing. Great. RIP Asbury. Jack --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ups.com, Lightgrw [EMAIL PROTECTED]. wrote: When Asbury is a nice safe place to raise a family is when I'll be back. I live in a town where, for adults, there is nothing to do and I'm not moving. I'm here because there is a TON of stuff to do for the kids, which Asbury doesn't have. So, yea, my agenda is to make a great, boring family town. It's funny but Point Pleasant has a nice nightlife and is a great family town. That boardwalk gets thousands of families each day during the summer... Guess that could never happen again in Asbury huh? ** BTW, wasn't it memories like that which have so many people feeling strongly about Asbury's past? That's what I don't understand. It could be that way again but people want to believe that it absolutely couldn't. I know there are people (I think you were one of them) who HATED the Palace. Well, as a kid growing up, I absolutely lived in that place and loved it. Now I agree with you that it was offensive to see people who had never been in the place trying to force it to be saved, but what offended me the most was that they only seemed to care about saving the logos. I wanted to save the INSIDE. Asbury Park used to be a magical place. That's why I hate the idea of turning it into any town USA when it could be magical again. Upstage Magazine - New Jersey's Premier Arts Entertainment Magazine PO Box 140, Spring Lake, NJ 07762 (732) 280-3305 http://www.UpstageMagazine.com __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
x-tad-bigger I think Gary meant is was not safe from being put out of business by /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger the city./x-tad-bigger Hinge, I'm at the Saint about 3-4 nights a week. I love that place. To me, it's the best club in Asbury Park. I meant it's not safe from redevelopment. I have heard from people that are in the real estate know who say there are plans to take it. I hope those people are wrong, but I can see Main Street being the final step in ridding Asbury Park of all entertainment related businesses. I mean, just look at the town. Asbury sold Convention Hall and the Paramount because they thought Asbury Partners would fix them up and instead they're rotting to the ground. My wife and I went to one of the wine tasting days at the Paramount over the summer. There was like 12 people there including the people from the winery. Why so few people? Well, they did a horrible job promoting the event and THE AIR CONDITIONERS WERE SHOT on a day that was in the 90s. They're probably avoiding holding events simply because they aren't maintaining the buildings and don't want people to know about it. Remember Convention Hall was closed by the inspectors a month or two ago. If they treat Asbury's greatest places to hold events that way, do you really think they're not going to try and get rid of all of the entertainment places? Upstage Magazine - New Jersey's Premier Arts Entertainment Magazine PO Box 140, Spring Lake, NJ 07762(732) 280-3305 http://www.UpstageMagazine.com
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
I, too, love the poor Casino, and agree with you. This man has the heart of a developer, not the love of an historian. __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park nj real estate United state flag Asbury park nj Asbury park real estate United state travel Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
No, I haven't seen it. Is it anywhere online? __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park nj real estate United state flag Asbury park nj Asbury park real estate United state travel Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
Tom, I agree with what you say. Hostorian is self proclaimed and I understand your point for historian and activist. While I am not a big fan of writing style of theTri City(tries too hard to be edgy) I do enjoy your writings. Good to see you back on this board - Original Message From: justifiedright [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:06:43 PMSubject: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, "dfsavgny" [EMAIL PROTECTED] . wrote: What would you save I ask?I would apply the facts to the Presevation Standard, and if the building met the standard it would be saved. If it didn't it wouldn't.I would not, under any circumstances as a historian, use my own preferences. That would make me an activist and not a Historian. Anyone not using objective standards is doing it wrong. Werner...does not want...instrusion upon the public space the City founders gave to future generations.Dead hand control. I'd rather make my own way in the world. What space particularly are you referring to here? For instance, I have taken the text below from the FAQ section of NYC Landmark's. "What is a landmark? A landmark is a building, property, or object that has been designated by the Landmarks Preservation Commission because it has a special character or special historical or aesthetic interest or value as part of the development, heritage, or cultural characteristics of the city, state, or nation.The Standards I wrote for the Historical Society are better because they aren't so vague. I'll try to dig them up. You call the Casino CH's ugly sister. I think that is proof enough that you are no historian.As I've tried to stress before, no one's peronal preferences about a building's design is relevent to whether it is historical, not mine and not Werner's. We must apply objective standards.Under objective standards, the Casin doesn't cut it.As for my personal opinion, it could very well be the ugliest building in the State. And, it never, ever, had any hitorically important past. __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park nj real estate United state flag Asbury park nj Asbury park real estate United state travel Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
On Oct 16, 2006, at 5:14 PM, Hinge wrote: x-tad-bigger I guess if we want The Jewel of the Jersey Shore to be only a/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger destination to live in, great. /x-tad-bigger See Hinge touches upon the hypocrisy of Asbury Park. The town desperately wants to hold on to its tourist past (because it knows that places like Cookman Ave will be in trouble with only residents) while certain people in power want the town to morph into residential only. Meanwhile, the beautiful images shown behind the Council each week are of Asbury's past and the images shown on the flag poles throughout town are of Asbury's past and the images used on the city's marketing is generally of Asbury's past. I still believe that the majority of the people voting in the past elections thought the redevelopment plan was a mix of tourism and residential. Instead, the tourism parts get forgotten with each passing year. There will be no new hotels, no new entertainment areas... in fact, I'd be amazed if there was any entertainment in Asbury Park in ten years time. God knows, Convention Hall is the most underused facility of its type in New Jersey. How virtually every county can support several similar facilities and have them all seem to do well is beyond me. Asbury books about 2 events per month at CH. Tommy, you know I really admire you for your love of the town which is why I want to ask you this one question. I know you are looking forwards to the day when Asbury Park is a nice, safe place to raise a family and live... So my question is: Do you envision any of the nightclubs or bars that are currently in Asbury Park to be there when that vision is realized? My take is that since they own the Stone Pony (and seemingly fail to realize its importance/potential) it will be gone and I'm not confident it will be moved or rebuilt elsewhere. I think Asbury Lanes will lose their fight over emminent domain. The Wonder Bar will simply thank Larry for giving them a few years in which they won over the majority of the town (a reason I believe they should be allowed to remain); and sadly, I think the Saint will be gone as well. Once the oceanfront is finished and Cookman Ave is finished, Asbury Park will try to clean up Main Street. And you've gotta know that Scott Stamper and his club have a giant bulls eye on their front door. So, there you have it. The very places that kept the town alive for a few decades when nothing else (but drugs) brought people to town will be removed so Asbury can morph into a nice, safe place to raise a family and live... And then the people will probably move away because they'll be nothing to do. Upstage Magazine - New Jersey's Premier Arts Entertainment Magazine PO Box 140, Spring Lake, NJ 07762(732) 280-3305 http://www.UpstageMagazine.com
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
In reference to Dan's insights: Carmel is one of the most beautiful towns in the US. They try to make it look like Tuscany, but it ain't. Any place where I am one of the youngest guys around is in trouble. The last time that happened was when I visited an uncle in the geriatric ward. A bunch of ultra-rich boring white people. The rolled up the sidewalks at 9 pm. I couldn;t even get a cup of coffee at that time. I got so frustrated by the third (last) day there I felt like smashing a storefront (Tiffany et al) to get arrested. But I didn;t see a cop in 3 days. I would probably have to call 911 to turn myself in. Sonoma wasn't much better, but at least it wasn't Soylent Green. I had similar feelings, closer to home, when I used to drive my parents to their doctor whose office is in Whiting, NJ. Sometimes during their office visit, I would drive around town to kill some time, get some coffee, etc. At first I couldn't understand why I felt so ill at ease there. Whiting is virtually all white hair, all white faces (no children though), and, figuratively, all very "white picket fence." Obviously boring, but also, as you mentioned, like Soylent Green: very creepy. It also reminded me of "Whispering Glades" in The Loved One: An Anglo-American Tragedy. This may sound corny and may be hard for some to understand, but the creepy feelings wouldn't subside until, driving north on the Parkway, I saw "Exit 100 Asbury Park"; total relief and reality came only as I drove east on Sunset, past the Foodtown andtoward Asbury Park. I no longer need to drive to Whiting, but occasionally, as I drive by some of the gated communities which are popping up like weeds nearby, some of that creepy feeling returns. __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park nj real estate United state flag Asbury park nj Asbury park real estate United state travel Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
In reference to Sharon's apt comment to Tommy: Hopefully, you won't fall into the "Remember When" group, that longs for the things they knew of the past, AFTER they're long gone! "Nostalgia carried beyond a certain point becomes a form of stupidity. And, as a poet once said, stupidity carried beyond a certain point becomes a public menace." The quote is Googlable. Tikkum Olam,(and if you have a sense of humor http://www.vidlit.com/gandl/ ) __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park nj real estate United state flag Asbury park nj Asbury park real estate United state travel Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
On Oct 16, 2006, at 8:53 PM, justifiedright wrote: x-tad-bigger--- In /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerAsburyPark@yahoogroups.com/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger, Lightgrw [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger > The town desperately wants to hold on to its tourist past. /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger No Gary, it doesn't. It desperately wants to be a great residential /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger community./x-tad-bigger Then why do they stick the past on nearly every piece of marketing for the town? Sounds like they either want to remember the past as something worth remembering or use the past to trick people into believing that they will be a hybrid of residential and tourism. If they solely wanted residential than why invoke images of the past on all of their marketing? x-tad-bigger I've said repeatedly you have to look at the rest of the County to /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger see that tourism in Monmouth, particulary the nightclub scene, is /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger long gone. /x-tad-bigger That statement is always thrown out by the people who want Asbury to simply give up any ideas about tourism. I don't buy it. I think Asbury Park could VERY EASILY utilize elements from its boardwalk and musical past to have a thriving tourism trade. One of the reasons the rest of Monmouth County hasn't is that the vast majority of tourism and history (especially musically) WAS IN ASBURY PARK. I remember joking once with Monmouth County Tourism people about growing up here and never imaging that the ONE boardwalk to remain and thrive would be Keansburg. Why is it that tourism is ok for Ocean County but not Monmouth County? Why has Monmouth County changed in your mind but Ocean hasn't? x-tad-bigger Belmar is the best example. 20 years ago there was a ton of /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger nightclubs. Now there is one./x-tad-bigger Well, there actually are several - especially if you count Lake Como. x-tad-bigger Now that I'm 43 and not 23, I must admit I don't judge towns by how /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger many nightclubs they have anymore. Maybe after my kids are grown I /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger will again. :-)/x-tad-bigger I'm not saying you should judge a town by the clubs. I'm saying that Asbury Park is known throughout the WORLD for its entertainment -- something very few places can attest to. Yet, the town treats it as if there is no heritage... no reason to keep it going. x-tad-bigger I don't think I agree with you that this Council harbors any ill /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger will toward The Saint. They are a comparatively young group up /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger there. I think the Saint will be fine./x-tad-bigger Well I've been there on more than one occasion when it seemed like someone purposely sent the fire code inspections (on a busy Saturday night) as a set up. I've also heard plenty of rumors that the building is in their sights. I don't believe it's safe at all. Upstage Magazine - New Jersey's Premier Arts Entertainment Magazine PO Box 140, Spring Lake, NJ 07762(732) 280-3305 http://www.UpstageMagazine.com
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Tommy v Werner
x-tad-bigger When Asbury is a nice safe place to raise a family is when I'll be /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger back. I live in a town where, for adults, there is nothing to do /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger and I'm not moving. I'm here because there is a TON of stuff to do /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger for the kids, which Asbury doesn't have./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger So, yea, my agenda is to make a great, boring family town./x-tad-bigger It's funny but Point Pleasant has a nice nightlife and is a great family town. That boardwalk gets thousands of families each day during the summer... Guess that could never happen again in Asbury huh? ** BTW, wasn't it memories like that which have so many people feeling strongly about Asbury's past? That's what I don't understand. It could be that way again but people want to believe that it absolutely couldn't. I know there are people (I think you were one of them) who HATED the Palace. Well, as a kid growing up, I absolutely lived in that place and loved it. Now I agree with you that it was offensive to see people who had never been in the place trying to force it to be saved, but what offended me the most was that they only seemed to care about saving the logos. I wanted to save the INSIDE. Asbury Park used to be a magical place. That's why I hate the idea of turning it into any town USA when it could be magical again. Upstage Magazine - New Jersey's Premier Arts Entertainment Magazine PO Box 140, Spring Lake, NJ 07762(732) 280-3305 http://www.UpstageMagazine.com
