Re: OP-code C8 3
> > There is a millicode-only instruction with a mnemonic of > MVCX. It is > > used by millicode for variable-length moves without the need for > > EX+MVC. > > (The > > "Execute" instructions are really slow on modern machines.) > MVCX is > > used by the millicode for MVCL and other instructions. We > know of the > > MVCX mnemonic but not the op-code or the operand format. > > This seems like a good instruction for general use, any idea > why it was not made available outside of millicode? Didn't they give us 'MVCOS' to do that? Fred! - ATTENTION: The information in this electronic mail message is private and confidential, and only intended for the addressee. Should you receive this message by mistake, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or use of this message is strictly prohibited. Please inform the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or opening it. Messages and attachments are scanned for all viruses known. If this message contains password-protected attachments, the files have NOT been scanned for viruses by the ING mail domain. Always scan attachments before opening them. -
Re: OP-code C8 3
MaybeIt was a long time ago... :-( -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:assembler-l...@listserv.uga.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Phoenix Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 3:31 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: OP-code C8 3 Edward Jaffe wrote: > John Bellomy wrote: >> If I remember the old 4331's had MVCX supported. >> > > Interesting. Does anyone have a specification showing the instruction > set supported on the 4331? John, Is it possible you are thinking of MVCIN? Principles, GA22-7000-9, dated May 1983 lists MVCIN as a standard feature of the 4331, but does not mention MVCX. -- | Jim Phoenix | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x316 | | Senior Software Developer| Fax: (310) 338-0801| | Phoenix Software International || | 831 Parkview Drive North | jimphoe...@phoenixsoftware.com | | El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company. "Email Firewall" made the following annotations. -- Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. ==
Re: OP-code C8 3
Edward Jaffe wrote: John Bellomy wrote: If I remember the old 4331's had MVCX supported. Interesting. Does anyone have a specification showing the instruction set supported on the 4331? John, Is it possible you are thinking of MVCIN? Principles, GA22-7000-9, dated May 1983 lists MVCIN as a standard feature of the 4331, but does not mention MVCX. -- | Jim Phoenix | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x316 | | Senior Software Developer| Fax: (310) 338-0801| | Phoenix Software International || | 831 Parkview Drive North | jimphoe...@phoenixsoftware.com | | El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company.
Re: OP-code C8 3
John Bellomy wrote: If I remember the old 4331's had MVCX supported. Interesting. Does anyone have a specification showing the instruction set supported on the 4331? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
Re: OP-code C8 3
- "David Bond" wrote: > On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:36:43 -0400, Abe Kornelis wrote: > >On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:27:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: > >>Sorry. Don't know the opcode for MVCX. But, since I knew it was > already > >>an assigned instruction mnemonic, I decided to use that name for a > >>macro. If they ever externalize it I'll be "screwed". :-D > > > >Ok, I'll admit MVCX is entirely new to me. > >Never ran into it until just now. > >I can understand the opcode is unknown, > >but would like to find out just what > >we _do_ know about this instruction. > >Is it real? What is it supposed to do? > > There is a millicode-only instruction with a mnemonic of MVCX. It is > used > by millicode for variable-length moves without the need for EX+MVC. > (The > "Execute" instructions are really slow on modern machines.) MVCX is > used by > the millicode for MVCL and other instructions. We know of the MVCX > mnemonic > but not the op-code or the operand format. This seems like a good instruction for general use, any idea why it was not made available outside of millicode? -- Richard
Re: OP-code C8 3
If I remember the old 4331's had MVCX supported. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:assembler-l...@listserv.uga.edu] On Behalf Of David Bond Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:44 PM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: OP-code C8 3 On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:36:43 -0400, Abe Kornelis wrote: >On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:27:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: >>Sorry. Don't know the opcode for MVCX. But, since I knew it was already >>an assigned instruction mnemonic, I decided to use that name for a >>macro. If they ever externalize it I'll be "screwed". :-D > >Ok, I'll admit MVCX is entirely new to me. >Never ran into it until just now. >I can understand the opcode is unknown, >but would like to find out just what >we _do_ know about this instruction. >Is it real? What is it supposed to do? There is a millicode-only instruction with a mnemonic of MVCX. It is used by millicode for variable-length moves without the need for EX+MVC. (The "Execute" instructions are really slow on modern machines.) MVCX is used by the millicode for MVCL and other instructions. We know of the MVCX mnemonic but not the op-code or the operand format. "Email Firewall" made the following annotations. -- Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the corporate e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. This e-mail may contain proprietary information and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. ==
Re: OP-code C8 3
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 15:36:43 -0400, Abe Kornelis wrote: >On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:27:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: >>Sorry. Don't know the opcode for MVCX. But, since I knew it was already >>an assigned instruction mnemonic, I decided to use that name for a >>macro. If they ever externalize it I'll be "screwed". :-D > >Ok, I'll admit MVCX is entirely new to me. >Never ran into it until just now. >I can understand the opcode is unknown, >but would like to find out just what >we _do_ know about this instruction. >Is it real? What is it supposed to do? There is a millicode-only instruction with a mnemonic of MVCX. It is used by millicode for variable-length moves without the need for EX+MVC. (The "Execute" instructions are really slow on modern machines.) MVCX is used by the millicode for MVCL and other instructions. We know of the MVCX mnemonic but not the op-code or the operand format.
Re: OP-code C8 3
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:27:08 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: >Sorry. Don't know the opcode for MVCX. But, since I knew it was already >an assigned instruction mnemonic, I decided to use that name for a >macro. If they ever externalize it I'll be "screwed". :-D Ok, I'll admit MVCX is entirely new to me. Never ran into it until just now. I can understand the opcode is unknown, but would like to find out just what we _do_ know about this instruction. Is it real? What is it supposed to do? Thanks in advance for any input. Cheers, Abe Kornelis. =
Re: OP-code C8 3
David Bond wrote: Yes, Abe mentioned that as a possibility. Do you know the op-code for MVCX? Sorry. Don't know the opcode for MVCX. But, since I knew it was already an assigned instruction mnemonic, I decided to use that name for a macro. If they ever externalize it I'll be "screwed". :-D -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
Re: OP-code C8 3
On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:20:01 -0700, Edward Jaffe wrote: >David Bond wrote: >> Another possibility is that it is yet another undocumented instruction. >> Invariably the undocumented instructions are privileged. Once someone has a >> z196, all they have to do is attempt to execute C8x3 to see if the result >> is an operation exception or a privileged operation exception. > >And there are some instructions (like MVCX) that work only when fetching >from millicode. Yes, Abe mentioned that as a possibility. Do you know the op-code for MVCX?
Re: OP-code C8 3
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List > [mailto:assembler-l...@listserv.uga.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 11:20 AM > To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Subject: Re: OP-code C8 3 > > David Bond wrote: > > Another possibility is that it is yet another undocumented > instruction. > > Invariably the undocumented instructions are privileged. > Once someone has a > > z196, all they have to do is attempt to execute C8x3 to see > if the result is > > an operation exception or a privileged operation exception. > > > > And there are some instructions (like MVCX) that work only > when fetching > from millicode. > > -- > Edward E Jaffe Millicode instruction opcodes come from the same "name space" as other, "normal" instructions? That is quite interesting. I guess when not in a millicode environment, they get a PIC 001? -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
Re: OP-code C8 3
David Bond wrote: Another possibility is that it is yet another undocumented instruction. Invariably the undocumented instructions are privileged. Once someone has a z196, all they have to do is attempt to execute C8x3 to see if the result is an operation exception or a privileged operation exception. And there are some instructions (like MVCX) that work only when fetching from millicode. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
Re: OP-code C8 3
Another possibility is that it is yet another undocumented instruction. Invariably the undocumented instructions are privileged. Once someone has a z196, all they have to do is attempt to execute C8x3 to see if the result is an operation exception or a privileged operation exception. On Mon, 9 Aug 2010 11:49:27 -0400, Abe Kornelis wrote: >Martin, > >two main possibilities exist: >1) it was never assigned. Holes have occurred many times before. >2) it is assigned to a millicode instruction - IBM internal use only. > >Other - more far-fetched - possibilities include: >3) it was assigned to an instruction that that never made it to the >outside-of-IBM world. Effectively this is the same as 'never-assigned' >4) it's been reserved for a future development that IBM foresees or is >working on, but we're not to be aware of it yet. > >Cheers, >Abe Kornelis. >=
Re: OP-code C8 3
Martin, two main possibilities exist: 1) it was never assigned. Holes have occurred many times before. 2) it is assigned to a millicode instruction - IBM internal use only. Other - more far-fetched - possibilities include: 3) it was assigned to an instruction that that never made it to the outside-of-IBM world. Effectively this is the same as 'never-assigned' 4) it's been reserved for a future development that IBM foresees or is working on, but we're not to be aware of it yet. Cheers, Abe Kornelis. =
Re: OP-code C8 3
C83 is the bald-headed guy with round spectacles and the curly mustache :-) The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:assembler-l...@listserv.uga.edu] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 8:12 AM To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: OP-code C8 3 You have too much time on your hands. :-) Tony Thigpen -Original Message - From: Martin Trübner Sent: 08/09/2010 07:43 AM > What happened to opcode C83 --- > C80 is MVCOS > C81 is ECTG > C82 CSST > C84 will be LPD > C85 will be LPDG > > but where is C83 ? > > the C8 rage looks like it is the collector for items that do not fit > anywhere else (at least I can not see any structure in there). > -- > Martin > > Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE > more at http://www.picapcpu.de > >
Re: OP-code C8 3
Normally I trim my tag line off when sending external messages but this is a very busy moment -- the reason for my jealousness. IBM Mainframe Assembler List wrote on 08/09/2010 09:22:59 AM: > From: Martin Trübner > To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > Date: 08/09/2010 09:25 AM > Subject: Re: OP-code C8 3 > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Assembler List > > Kirk, > > while my HLASM is more fluent than my latin, I do understand it (6 > years in high-school). > > > > -- > Martin > > Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE > more at http://www.picapcpu.de - The information contained in this communication (including any attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. Thank you
Re: OP-code C8 3
Kirk, while my HLASM is more fluent than my latin, I do understand it (6 years in high-school). -- Martin Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE more at http://www.picapcpu.de
Re: OP-code C8 3
And we are jealous! :-) Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. IBM Mainframe Assembler List wrote on 08/09/2010 08:11:53 AM: > You have too much time on your hands. :-) > Tony Thigpen > -Original Message - > From: Martin Trübner > Sent: 08/09/2010 07:43 AM > > What happened to opcode C83 --- > > C80 is MVCOS > > C81 is ECTG > > C82 CSST > > C84 will be LPD > > C85 will be LPDG > > but where is C83 ? > > the C8 rage looks like it is the collector for items that do not fit > > anywhere else (at least I can not see any structure in there). > > Martin - The information contained in this communication (including any attachments hereto) is confidential and is intended solely for the personal and confidential use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any review, dissemination, copying, or unauthorized use of this information, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message. Thank you
Re: OP-code C8 3
Come on don't make fun of me. I checked the bit bucket already and it is in fact full of 0C3 ;-) found other oddities: like BCTGR having an opcode of B9 46 surrounded by lots of floating-point instructionsbut it could at least (IMHO) be attributed to efforts to keep the X'46' from original BCT. -- Martin Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE more at http://www.picapcpu.de
Re: OP-code C8 3
On Aug 9, 2010, at 06:35, William H. Blair wrote: > Martin Trübner asked: > >> What happened to opcode C83 --- > > Nothing has happened to it. It's right over there -- where it's always been > -- in the S0C1 box. We'll all wait here while you go look for it. But I > promise you it is there. > > TFPIC > Plausibly a new instruction that was considered by designers but withdrawn before announcement. No way to tell. Or, perhaps the designers never considered using opcode C83. -- gil
Re: OP-code C8 3
Martin Trübner asked: > What happened to opcode C83 --- Nothing has happened to it. It's right over there -- where it's always been -- in the S0C1 box. We'll all wait here while you go look for it. But I promise you it is there. TFPIC -- WB
Re: OP-code C8 3
You have too much time on your hands. :-) Tony Thigpen -Original Message - From: Martin Trübner Sent: 08/09/2010 07:43 AM > What happened to opcode C83 --- > C80 is MVCOS > C81 is ECTG > C82 CSST > C84 will be LPD > C85 will be LPDG > > but where is C83 ? > > the C8 rage looks like it is the collector for items that do not fit > anywhere else (at least I can not see any structure in there). > -- > Martin > > Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE > more at http://www.picapcpu.de > >
OP-code C8 3
What happened to opcode C83 --- C80 is MVCOS C81 is ECTG C82 CSST C84 will be LPD C85 will be LPDG but where is C83 ? the C8 rage looks like it is the collector for items that do not fit anywhere else (at least I can not see any structure in there). -- Martin Pi_cap_CPU - all you ever need around MWLC/SCRT/CMT in z/VSE more at http://www.picapcpu.de
