Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-24 Thread Chris Witte
You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is 
always a tradeoff.

In my experience, the 911 dispatcher can (does) pin the call, so that 
even though the remote side hangs up, the line is not available for use 
again until the dispatcher releases it.   I'd expect this to mean that 
the proposed hangup would end up with the 911 operator transferred 
from caller-caller-caller if asterisk were configured to re-use a line 
for a new outbound 911 call...

chris.

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-24 Thread Dylan VanHerpen
That would be the case if calls are dropped at random to clear the way 
for 911 calls. With some form of access control (NCOS, Calling Search 
Space/Partitions, priority levels) you would be able to drop the least 
important calls.

BTW, how are trunk restrictions managed right now? How can I specify 
which phones/extensions can make local, long distance or international 
calls? Can this be controlled by a time-of-day schedule, to change 
restrictions after regular business hours (cleaning crew calling LD)?

Dylan.

Chris Witte wrote:

You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is 
always a tradeoff.

In my experience, the 911 dispatcher can (does) pin the call, so that 
even though the remote side hangs up, the line is not available for 
use again until the dispatcher releases it.   I'd expect this to mean 
that the proposed hangup would end up with the 911 operator 
transferred from caller-caller-caller if asterisk were configured to 
re-use a line for a new outbound 911 call...

chris.

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-24 Thread Jon Pounder
make a context for l/d dialing and include it for the phones / times of 
day, when it is actually supposed to be used, not otherwise.

At 09:52 AM 6/24/2003 -0600, you wrote:
That would be the case if calls are dropped at random to clear the way for 
911 calls. With some form of access control (NCOS, Calling Search 
Space/Partitions, priority levels) you would be able to drop the least 
important calls.

BTW, how are trunk restrictions managed right now? How can I specify which 
phones/extensions can make local, long distance or international calls? 
Can this be controlled by a time-of-day schedule, to change restrictions 
after regular business hours (cleaning crew calling LD)?

Dylan.

Chris Witte wrote:

You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is 
always a tradeoff.
In my experience, the 911 dispatcher can (does) pin the call, so that 
even though the remote side hangs up, the line is not available for use 
again until the dispatcher releases it.   I'd expect this to mean that 
the proposed hangup would end up with the 911 operator transferred from 
caller-caller-caller if asterisk were configured to re-use a line for a 
new outbound 911 call...

chris.

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[Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread Dylan VanHerpen
Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the 
physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a 
problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when 
Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it 
can get messy.

A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for 
emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding 
a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to  
properly identify the location of the caller:

exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51

For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 
context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the 
*location* portion.

A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and 
all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or 
drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, 
etc.).

Getting lengthy, better stop.

Dylan.

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread John Todd
I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly.  I'm not being 
snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis?  Do you understand 
how applications work, and how call handoff is done between Asterisk 
servers?  Your example doesn't seem to make sense, no matter how I 
think about it.

Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the 
originating handset.  That much has been clear for years.  Getting 
that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty 
much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could 
just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to 
locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band signalling 
to the PSAP?

This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while 
back, using lat/lon/altitude.  Can ADSI tones be transmitted through 
any phone call on the PSTN?  It might be interesting for PBX 
systems to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI 
in-band.  This will never work, of course, since nobody would trust 
the transmitters.  The 911 question almost instantly spins into a 
political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number 
of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways 
to bang solutions into people's heads.

Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk 
already - see the SoftHangup application.

JT


Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the 
physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not 
really a problem when all extensions are located in the same 
building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise 
networked environment, it can get messy.

A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, 
for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and 
adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible 
to  properly identify the location of the caller:

exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51

For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 
911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the 
*location* portion.

A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed 
and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front 
desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. 
non-identified calls, etc.).

Getting lengthy, better stop.

Dylan.
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread Dylan VanHerpen
Now that I reed it back, I can barely make sense of it myself! Anyway, I 
was just thinking out loud, the example wasn't meant to be parsed. 
Asterisk would need some lower level changes to parse the extra field 
holding the location information, and to apply the routing rules to 
substitute the Caller ID name for the location. I was hoping this would 
be thought provoking for somebody smarter than me :)

 Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk 
already - see the SoftHangup application.
That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop other 
calls automatically when 911 is dialed?

Thanks, Dylan.

John Todd wrote:

I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly.  I'm not being 
snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis?  Do you understand 
how applications work, and how call handoff is done between Asterisk 
servers?  Your example doesn't seem to make sense, no matter how I 
think about it.

Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the 
originating handset.  That much has been clear for years.  Getting 
that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty 
much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could 
just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to 
locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band signalling 
to the PSAP?

This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while 
back, using lat/lon/altitude.  Can ADSI tones be transmitted through 
any phone call on the PSTN?  It might be interesting for PBX systems 
to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI in-band.  This 
will never work, of course, since nobody would trust the 
transmitters.  The 911 question almost instantly spins into a 
political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number 
of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways to 
bang solutions into people's heads.

Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk 
already - see the SoftHangup application.

JT


Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the 
physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not 
really a problem when all extensions are located in the same 
building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise 
networked environment, it can get messy.

A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, 
for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and 
adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible 
to  properly identify the location of the caller:

exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51

For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 
context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the 
*location* portion.

A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed 
and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front 
desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. 
non-identified calls, etc.).

Getting lengthy, better stop.

Dylan.


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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread Dylan VanHerpen
Dylan VanHerpen wrote:

Now that I reed it back, I can barely make sense of it myself! Anyway, 
I was just thinking out loud, the example wasn't meant to be parsed. 
Asterisk would need some lower level changes to parse the extra field 
holding the location information, and to apply the routing rules to 
substitute the Caller ID name for the location. I was hoping this 
would be thought provoking for somebody smarter than me :)

 Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk 
already - see the SoftHangup application.
That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop 
other calls automatically when 911 is dialed?

Thanks, Dylan.

John Todd wrote:

I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly.  I'm not being 
snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis?  Do you understand 
how applications work, and how call handoff is done between Asterisk 
servers?  Your example doesn't seem to make sense, no matter how I 
think about it.

Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the 
originating handset.  That much has been clear for years.  Getting 
that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty 
much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could 
just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to 
locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band signalling 
to the PSAP?

This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while 
back, using lat/lon/altitude.  Can ADSI tones be transmitted through 
any phone call on the PSTN?  It might be interesting for PBX 
systems to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI 
in-band.  This will never work, of course, since nobody would trust 
the transmitters.  The 911 question almost instantly spins into a 
political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number 
of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways 
to bang solutions into people's heads.

Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk 
already - see the SoftHangup application.

JT


Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the 
physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not 
really a problem when all extensions are located in the same 
building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise 
networked environment, it can get messy.

A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, 
for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and 
adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible 
to  properly identify the location of the caller:

exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51

For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 
911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the 
*location* portion.

A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed 
and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front 
desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. 
non-identified calls, etc.).

Getting lengthy, better stop.

Dylan.


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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread Dylan VanHerpen
And now that I *read* it back again, you can tell that English is not my 
native language either



Dylan VanHerpen wrote:

Now that I reed it back, I can barely make sense of it myself! 
Anyway, I was just thinking out loud, the example wasn't meant to be 
parsed. Asterisk would need some lower level changes to parse the 
extra field holding the location information, and to apply the 
routing rules to substitute the Caller ID name for the location. I 
was hoping this would be thought provoking for somebody smarter than 
me :)

 Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk 
already - see the SoftHangup application.
That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop 
other calls automatically when 911 is dialed?

Thanks, Dylan.

John Todd wrote:

I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly.  I'm not being 
snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis?  Do you 
understand how applications work, and how call handoff is done 
between Asterisk servers?  Your example doesn't seem to make sense, 
no matter how I think about it.

Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the 
originating handset.  That much has been clear for years.  Getting 
that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty 
much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could 
just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to 
locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band 
signalling to the PSAP?

This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while 
back, using lat/lon/altitude.  Can ADSI tones be transmitted through 
any phone call on the PSTN?  It might be interesting for PBX 
systems to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI 
in-band.  This will never work, of course, since nobody would trust 
the transmitters.  The 911 question almost instantly spins into a 
political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number 
of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways 
to bang solutions into people's heads.

Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk 
already - see the SoftHangup application.

JT


Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the 
physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not 
really a problem when all extensions are located in the same 
building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise 
networked environment, it can get messy.

A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each 
location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of 
Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it 
should be possible to  properly identify the location of the caller:

exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51

For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 
911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the 
*location* portion.

A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is 
dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not 
the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls 
vs. non-identified calls, etc.).

Getting lengthy, better stop.

Dylan.




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RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread Adam Goryachev
 Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the
 physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a
 problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when
 Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it
 can get messy.

 A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for
 emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding
 a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to
 properly identify the location of the caller:

 exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51

 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911
 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the
 *location* portion.

 A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and
 all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or
 drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls,
 etc.).

 Getting lengthy, better stop.

 Dylan.

This is all quite interesting to me, as I have been somewhat concerned about
it, though have never quite bumped into it directly yet. It would be 'nice'
to be able to forcibly hangup on some rule based channel if a certain dial
'priority' is set. Perhaps you could do something like this:

exten = 911,1,SetVar(priority,911)
exten = 911,2,Dial,Zap/g2:911

(Ignore the likely invalid syntax/parameters, but you should get the right
idea)

Then in another config file:
[911]
On,Busy,Drop,Zap/1
On,Busy,Drop,Zap/g2
On,Busy,Drop,any

So, we might initially try hanging up on Zap/1, but for some reason, we
can't release the channel, so we now try each line in Zap/g2 successively,
if we still can't get a channel to become available, then try any other
line, (heck, drop all of them and pickup the first available).

You could also use this so that just before your boss's dialout, it sets the
priority to 666, the first thing it does is try to disconnect the line your
extension is using (because you only ever talk to your friend and spend all
day chatting instead of working, but don't want your boss to realise you
were on the phone again...)

Yes, it is possible to use SoftHangup to do this, it can be done as an AGI,
but I think the importance of this is such that the level of peer review and
correctness is rather high! Imagine you get it wrong and all it does is hang
up on the caller when they dial 911.

Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call
centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some
sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency
situations.

PS, also keep in mind that different countries use different codes for
emergency. Personally, when setting up these codes, I have tried to
accomodate for all the ones I know of:
911 - North America
000 - Australia
112 - Emergency from Mobile Phones in Australia

I'm not sure what the number is in other countries, but perhaps we should
allow this to be somewhat flexible enough that it can be used anywhere.

Just some additional lengthy comments to add to the list :)

Regards,
Adam

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RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread Jon Pounder



Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call
centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some
sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency
situations.
I had much the same thoughts. Currently my 911 code is just commented out 
for that very reason - I don't want to get in trouble for accidentally 
making 911 calls to test it. Should I rely on that code untested for when 
it is really needed most ? What are other people doing ?

I have a set of extensions I call line seize that are supposed to act 
like the line buttons on a conventional business phone to pickup a specific 
line and get a dial tone (I was going to add them to adsi to make the 
illusion even more complete), maybe I will modify those to include a 
softhangup when the line is busy if the user hits * or something.

In a real emergency though you would want this as simple as possible, but 
foolproof if you code it wrong.



PS, also keep in mind that different countries use different codes for
emergency. Personally, when setting up these codes, I have tried to
accomodate for all the ones I know of:
911 - North America
000 - Australia
112 - Emergency from Mobile Phones in Australia
I'm not sure what the number is in other countries, but perhaps we should
allow this to be somewhat flexible enough that it can be used anywhere.
Just some additional lengthy comments to add to the list :)

Regards,
Adam
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread David Hooton
Jon Pounder wrote:
I had much the same thoughts. Currently my 911 code is just commented 
out for that very reason - I don't want to get in trouble for 
accidentally making 911 calls to test it. Should I rely on that code 
untested for when it is really needed most ? What are other people doing ?
Cisco have implemented a solution for this, does anyone know how they do 
it in Call Manager?

--
Regards,
David Hooton
Senior Partner
Platform Hosting
www.platformhosting.com
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread Dylan VanHerpen
Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call
centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some
sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency
situations.
Well, for testing purposes 911 could be replaced with any other number. You can also setup an alias for '11', so that regardless if people dial 911 (instead of 9,911), they'll get thru.

Dylan.

Adam Goryachev wrote:

Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the
physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a
problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when
Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it
can get messy.
A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for
emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding
a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to
properly identify the location of the caller:
exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51

For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911
context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the
*location* portion.
A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and
all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or
drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls,
etc.).
Getting lengthy, better stop.

Dylan.
   

This is all quite interesting to me, as I have been somewhat concerned about
it, though have never quite bumped into it directly yet. It would be 'nice'
to be able to forcibly hangup on some rule based channel if a certain dial
'priority' is set. Perhaps you could do something like this:
exten = 911,1,SetVar(priority,911)
exten = 911,2,Dial,Zap/g2:911
(Ignore the likely invalid syntax/parameters, but you should get the right
idea)
Then in another config file:
[911]
On,Busy,Drop,Zap/1
On,Busy,Drop,Zap/g2
On,Busy,Drop,any
So, we might initially try hanging up on Zap/1, but for some reason, we
can't release the channel, so we now try each line in Zap/g2 successively,
if we still can't get a channel to become available, then try any other
line, (heck, drop all of them and pickup the first available).
You could also use this so that just before your boss's dialout, it sets the
priority to 666, the first thing it does is try to disconnect the line your
extension is using (because you only ever talk to your friend and spend all
day chatting instead of working, but don't want your boss to realise you
were on the phone again...)
Yes, it is possible to use SoftHangup to do this, it can be done as an AGI,
but I think the importance of this is such that the level of peer review and
correctness is rather high! Imagine you get it wrong and all it does is hang
up on the caller when they dial 911.
Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call
centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some
sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency
situations.
PS, also keep in mind that different countries use different codes for
emergency. Personally, when setting up these codes, I have tried to
accomodate for all the ones I know of:
911 - North America
000 - Australia
112 - Emergency from Mobile Phones in Australia
I'm not sure what the number is in other countries, but perhaps we should
allow this to be somewhat flexible enough that it can be used anywhere.
Just some additional lengthy comments to add to the list :)

Regards,
Adam
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RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread James Sharp



Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call
centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is
 some
sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency
situations.

 I had much the same thoughts. Currently my 911 code is just commented out
 for that very reason - I don't want to get in trouble for accidentally
 making 911 calls to test it. Should I rely on that code untested for when
 it is really needed most ? What are other people doing ?

In my experience, most 911 operators will say thank you, hang up, and go
about their business if you tell them as soon as they answer the phone
that This is a telephone system test call to ensure 911 operation.  Most
of all, don't hang up on them when they answer or you'll have a patrol car
sitting at your place soon after.

As long as you don't call them every 10 minutes, it shouldn't be a problem.




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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID

2003-06-23 Thread John Todd
Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk
 already - see the SoftHangup application.
 That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop other
 calls automatically when 911 is dialed?
A short AGI script, perhaps?
It probably would not even require a short AGI.  Define a group of 
Zap lines as your emergency lines.  Increment a counter every time 
a line in that group is used for an outbound/inbound call, and 
decrement when the line is released (hung up.)  If a 911 call is 
placed, and counter=(max lines in group) then run the SoftHangup and 
hangup the last three or four lines in the group before placing the 
911 call.  It is hopefully the case that your system sees 911 calls 
infrequently enough that a few dropped calls will not be overly 
burdensome.  A sub-counter needs to be kept in order to prevent an 
existing 911 call from being SoftHangup'ed.  It is the case that 911 
calls come in clusters from office environments, where two or three 
people may call about the same issue at the same time, and it would 
be bad form to hang up 911 caller #1 in order to clear the line for 
911 caller #2.  You simply have to judge how many lines are 
appropriate

For simplicity's sake, you may just decide that you should hang up 
Zap/1-21, Zap/1-22, Zap/1-23 anytime you see a 911 call being placed. 
You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is 
always a tradeoff.

JT
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