Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:24 -0400, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 June 2005 13:49, hank wrote:
> > a man loose his mind?
> > what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :)
> 
> http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2005-April/098768.html
> 
> The whole thread's kind of funny...  He started off really calm and rational, 
> offering to donate time and space on his "modern, progressive" web forum with 
> all his experience and so on, but when we (the community) ultimately turned 
> him down he quite literally lost his mind, I think.
> 
> -A.
gmane.org appears to have the group
gmane.comp.telephony.pbx.asterisk.users (and biz and dev).  Gmane is a
free service that does smtp->nntp and back again.  Has a web interface
to read the groups, etc.  For those that dont want email they should be
able to use that, or at least use that as a feeder if they dont want to
deal with email delivery.

It also provides group searching for people who want to read archives
for more help.  

Perhaps the easiest way would be to have a mini-faq that explains how to
properly ask a question (what information should be provided when
asking) along with places to search for information (lists.digium.com,
gmane.org, google queries if you want to search, etc).  That way some of
the complaints about the list can be mitigated.  

To be honest I dont know if the list sent something like this on
subscription, but it may have.  Some of the other lists I am on have a
faq maintainer (so 100 people dont all do it at the same time) that
sends such a faq once per month, but that may be extreme.

http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.comp.telephony.pbx.asterisk

There are 10 lists with posts in them that can all be read that way.

Note: I have no affiliation with gmane, and from using it, it appears to
be sponsored by donations not banner ads, etc, so it is a clean
interface (with multiple interfaces, rss, blog style, threaded, etc).



-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Tzafrir Cohen]

Hi

On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:49:29AM -0700, hank wrote:
> a man loose his mind?
> what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :)

Thanks for the kind, tactful and on-topic post. Also thank you for 
trimming irrelevant quoted text from your message.

Shall we drop this?

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il |   | a Mutt's  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |   |  best
ICQ# 16849755 |   | friend
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Tuesday 28 June 2005 13:49, hank wrote:
> a man loose his mind?
> what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :)

http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2005-April/098768.html

The whole thread's kind of funny...  He started off really calm and rational, 
offering to donate time and space on his "modern, progressive" web forum with 
all his experience and so on, but when we (the community) ultimately turned 
him down he quite literally lost his mind, I think.

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Walt Reed]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:59:31AM -0400, steve szmidt said:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 20:04, Robert Webb wrote:
> > > I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but
> > > that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not
> > > really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search.
> > > The archives need to be fully indexed.
> >
> > In a Google search box: site:lists.digium.com "What you are searching
> > for"
> 
> The problem many newbies faces is TOO MUCH information. Not being able to see 
> the trees because of the forest basically.
> 
> It does not matter either if it has been discussed until someone went crazy 
> or 
> died. The reason it keeps coming up is because it has not been solved.

The problem is NOT that the archives are not searchable or indexed. The
problem is that we are dealing with a very complex subject /
application. Telephony is Very different from general computing. The
terminology, technology, typical problem set is unique to the industry.
Now we add all the typical computer and network issues on top such as
IRQ's, QoS, firewalls, NAT, etc. 

Newbies don't have a chance unless they are willing to spend the time it
takes to learn about the technology they are trying to implement.

Maybe some day this will change as hardware gets better, easier to
configure, and the software matures. People that want something that
"just works" without "tinkering" NOW should either be NOT using VoIP
technology, or should be purchasing a complete solution (or consulting
services) from one of the many vendors available.

* and VoIP are still very young, about where Apache was as a web
server (and the internet in general) back in 1996 - pretty stable,
but still immature.


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[hank]

a man loose his mind?
what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :)
laters
hank
- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Di Martino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" 


Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kohlsmith
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:26 PM
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote:

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an



Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A
place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.


We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of
the last few years.  Check the archives -- it's been thought up and
re-thought up and dismissed each and every time.

Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll
end up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody
really seems to want to read for themselves.

It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last
time I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing
list.  That was entertaining.  :-)


~

Their would not be so many newbie questions if their was 1. A fully
indexed searchable archive list and 2. Good solid documentation.





___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users 


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[steve szmidt]

On Monday 27 June 2005 20:04, Robert Webb wrote:
> > I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but
> > that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not
> > really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search.
> > The archives need to be fully indexed.
>
> In a Google search box: site:lists.digium.com "What you are searching
> for"

The problem many newbies faces is TOO MUCH information. Not being able to see 
the trees because of the forest basically.

It does not matter either if it has been discussed until someone went crazy or 
died. The reason it keeps coming up is because it has not been solved.

I totally agree with why. I sure don't want to be the one babysitting them. 

These posts were simply pointing out what I think, as a former educator, is 
part of the problem. Something which is not that hard to do. And indeed 
during some spare times I may put together something which is a lower 
gradient for those who have a hard time getting it. I sure would like to.

Now it could very well be that many of these people never get anywhere because 
it's just too hard for them. But I know when I started a few years back, that 
a lot of the howto's have a stiff gradient. It skips pieces of information, 
assumes knowledge which is hard to come by and so on. Standard stuff.

I'm not assuming or expecting that anyone is going to act on what I'm saying. 
If it was easy someone would have already implemented it.

But I am saying that I see there are things that CAN be done which will make 
it easier. And if it makes it easier, this list will have less "stupid" and 
repetitive questions. More people will win using Asterisk and we should all 
win. (Except those who prefer fewer people competed in this arena. And there 
are a few here who are happy it's hard for others to take part of the fruit. 
There always are.)

-- 

Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety 
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Tuesday 28 June 2005 09:44, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> Their would not be so many newbie questions if their was 1. A fully
> indexed searchable archive list and 2. Good solid documentation.

Alright, you've called my bluff.

http://www.mail-archive.com/asterisk-users%40lists.digium.com/

Is that not fully indexed and searchable enough for you?

http://lists.digium.org is fully indexed, but is not searchable.

Googling for "site:lists.digium.com search terms here" is fully searchable but 
not indexed.

So now, you have indexed and searchable, indexed, and searchable.  Can we 
please stop complaining about this now?

As for point #2 -- I think everyone is in agreement but it is no small feat 
and there are several people working on it.  Feel free to contribute.

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Michael Di Martino]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kohlsmith
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:26 PM
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote:
> One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an

> Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get 
> started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A 
> place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.

We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of
the last few years.  Check the archives -- it's been thought up and
re-thought up and dismissed each and every time.

Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll
end up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody
really seems to want to read for themselves.

It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last
time I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing
list.  That was entertaining.  :-)


~

Their would not be so many newbie questions if their was 1. A fully
indexed searchable archive list and 2. Good solid documentation.





___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Terry H. Gilsenan]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Milk
> Sent: Tuesday, 28 June 2005 2:55 PM
> To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
> 
> Ebay is great.  As a proof that you can sell *anything* on 
> ebay, I offered for sale the plastic-lid of an OJ container 
> as a "Knuckle Protector" there some two years ago.  It made 
> $8 + $5 S&H.

Just more proof that "Marketers" as a species, "eat their own young".

...and the #include  allow it to happen.


> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dan Perik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:44 PM
> > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
> > 
> > 
> > I'm not sure which is funnier... that someone would offer something 
> > like that for sale on ebay, or that someone would pay 
> $10.56 + $4.50 
> > shipping to buy it.
> > 
> > rofl
> > - Dan
> > 
> > Steven Kalcevich wrote:
> > 
> > > I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own 
> > > provider.
> > >
> > > 
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?>
> ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783
> > > 732903&rd=1
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > Asterisk-Users mailing list
> > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/aster> isk-users To 
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Jay Milk]

Ebay is great.  As a proof that you can sell *anything* on ebay, I
offered for sale the plastic-lid of an OJ container as a "Knuckle
Protector" there some two years ago.  It made $8 + $5 S&H.

> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Perik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:44 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
> 
> 
> I'm not sure which is funnier... that someone would offer 
> something like that for sale on ebay, or that someone would 
> pay $10.56 + $4.50 shipping to buy it.
> 
> rofl
> - Dan
> 
> Steven Kalcevich wrote:
> 
> > I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own 
> > provider.
> >
> > 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?>
ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783
> > 732903&rd=1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com 
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/aster> isk-users
> To 
> UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Scott Miller]

I just might know of someone who could host it in the US at no charge - who
ever manages the site, e-mail me off list if interested.

Scott

- Original Message 
From: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion

To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'

Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Date: 28/06/05 01:53

>
> Matt - catch me on IRC (it's file).
>
> - Joshua Colp.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Riddell
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:30 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
> Discussion
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
>
> Andres wrote:
> > So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
>
> Sh1t.
>
> Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
>
> So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site,
it
> will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
>
> Offers?
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Matt Riddell
> ___
>
> http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
> http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
>
>
> 


Message sent using
InterBel.net Webmail 2.7.2 at www.interbel.net

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Darren Wiebe]

If you don't like that method, go to 
http://www.mail-archive.com/index.php?hunt=asterisk  I used to use this 
archive sometimes.


Darren Wiebe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Wiley Siler wrote:


The archive is very searchable it just is a pain sometimes...

To search by relevance...
Go to google.com.
Enter: site:lists.digium.com 
You get the archive back with relevance as the main sorter.

I have also seen some places that back up the list and sort by date and
allow searching.  (looking for these again)

So it may be labor intensive sometimes but there is certainly the
ability to search.

W





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Di
Martino
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 1:55 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem
is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the
were as lease some users would search.
The archives need to be fully indexed.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
 

If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk 
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just 
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for 
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
   



Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". 
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the

Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer. 


The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.

 



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[steve szmidt]

On Monday 27 June 2005 17:26, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote:
> > One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
> > Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
> > started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
> > that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.
>
> We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the
> last few years.  Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought
> up and dismissed each and every time.

Yes, I remember.

> Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end
> up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems
> to want to read for themselves.

Exactly. Though I think we could have more success if we had a dumb'd down 
version of the wiki with very few options. Maybe along the line Minimum-1, 
A-Bit-More-2 and A-Little-Bit -More-3. The wiki could do with a MySQL web 
type layout. I'm thinking of the many examples part. But I sure don't have 
the time to do it. But I would be tempted.

> It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time
> I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list. 
> That was entertaining.  :-)

Hehe... we don't see that much fun every day. Which is probably why it was 
entertaining.

-- 

Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety 
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Robert Webb]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Michael Di Martino
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:55 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
>
> I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but
> that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not
> really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search.
> The archives need to be fully indexed.
>


In a Google search box: site:lists.digium.com "What you are searching
for"



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Mike]

The archives need to be fully indexed.

Can you say Google?

site:lists.digium.com query goes here







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:

If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.


Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!".
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the
Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer.

The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.

--

Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
   Benjamin Franklin
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

"Not really. This thread does not belong on this list. It is off topic
and a waste of time for admins dealing w/  real system issues. Like I
said sign up for the qmail list and you will see how a real user list
operates."



LMAO - OK, so those same admins dealing with "real" system issues are
spending lots of time perusing their userlist postings?  Must be some
serious issues, eh?  

Seriously.  Save the criticism for your colleagues at Qmail.  There is
no point in throwing out criticism to this list.  It is what it is.  We
will undoubtedly waste more time going back and forth over this argument
than is worth it.  And the irony of that should really hit home.  

I am glad that you like your other list and feel it serves your
purposes.  This list serves the purposes of many despite the fact that
from time to time it may drop into a rabbit hole.  It is an excellent
resource even if it is not organized in a manner that meets your
personal requirements.  

It is what it is.  Accept it and move on.

Cheers,
Wiley


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[John Millican]

Mr. DiMartino,
how about you go to the qmail list and stay there so they can listen to your 
whining and not us.  This is a VERY helpful list.  Yes there is the 
occasional question that goes unanswered, but this is rare.  Stop trolling, 
go away, and grow up.  Sometimes is is as important to know what not to do, 
as it is to know what to do.
John M
On Monday June 27 2005 4:11 pm, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of trixter
> http://www.0xdecafbad.com
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:03 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
>
> On Mon, 2005-06-27 at 14:31 -0400, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> > If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
> > admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just
> > might be a great list.
> > As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for
> > assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
> >
> > If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
> > list and observe.
>
> The bankrupt thread is mostly now about finiding hosting for Daily
> Asterisk News, which I feel is helping asterisk people, and people
> whining about this thread.
>
> The whining seemed to be from people reading the subject line and not
> even bothering to notice that the majority of the posts under this
> subject were about an asterisk specific thing when I saw that.  This
> isnt slashdot we should actually read more than the subjects before
> commenting.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

Well, we could aspire to be a great list in his eyes you know.  (LOL)

Maybe we can repost the contents of the archive on a regular basis.
We can even repost all the info of the Wiki so people who don't take the
time look things up can find their answers. 

At the very least it would save a fella from having to repost something
a dozen times.

If two people responded I am sure that some viable resolution was given.
Besides, it is not like anyone owes us each a response.  
This isn't paid support.

You get what you get and we should all be happy to get what we do.

I am thankful for this list personally

Cheers,
Wiley



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Webb
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:16 PM
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt


On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:27:22 -0400
  Andrew Kohlsmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
>> If this list spent at least half the time on helping 
>>other asterisk
>> admins as it does on
>> trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might 
>>be a great list.
>> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most 
>>request for
>> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of 
>>unanswered.
> 
> Do you have some proof of this?  I find the list rather 
>helpful on the whole, 
> with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects 
>inbetween.
> 
> -A.


I think he is just frustrated because only two people have 
replied to his question about his IAXy device not working 
after having repeated his same question a dozen times in 
new threads..

Robert
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote:
> One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
> Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started
> without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that
> frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.

We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the 
last few years.  Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought up 
and dismissed each and every time.

Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end up 
answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems to 
want to read for themselves.

It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time I 
think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list.  That 
was entertaining.  :-)

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[jurczak]

I am throwing my * away, I will be using this system from now.

Btw: I have laughed like this for long time

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven
Kalcevich
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:28 PM
To: andrew matthews; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903
&rd=1


andrew matthews wrote:

> I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own 
> servers. I'd love to help.
>
> On 6/26/05, *Matt Riddell* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> Andres wrote:
> > So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
>
> Sh1t.
>
> Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
>
> So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
> site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
>
> Offers?
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Matt Riddell
> 
>

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Wiley Siler]

The archive is very searchable it just is a pain sometimes...

To search by relevance...
Go to google.com.
Enter: site:lists.digium.com 
You get the archive back with relevance as the main sorter.

I have also seen some places that back up the list and sort by date and
allow searching.  (looking for these again)

So it may be labor intensive sometimes but there is certainly the
ability to search.

W





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Di
Martino
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 1:55 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem
is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the
were as lease some users would search.
The archives need to be fully indexed.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk 
> admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just 
> might be a great list.
> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for 
> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". 
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the
Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer. 

The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.

-- 

Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Mon, 2005-06-27 at 12:45 -0700, Wiley Siler wrote:
> Feel free to unsubscribe at your earliest convenience.
> 
> I for one disagree with you completely.
> 
> The only questions that occasionally go unanswered are those that were
> just asked, are written twenty times on the Wiki, or are intrinsicly
> stupid.
> And even those questions are often answered with redirection to the
> resource that documents them.  People on this list are helpful and
> genuinely interested in assisting their fellow users.

I agree with that last part and as proof I submit the bankrupt thread
which is actually several threads in one subject line.  There are MANY
offers to help someone host the asterisk daily news (aparently the
bankrupcy affected this), which I feel is related to the asterisk
community, but maybe I am whacky that way.  I also see a community
spirit with people offering advice to get money back and other related
things given the news.  If we did not have this community spirit in
helping people we wouldnt have offered such help.  And that is just
within 2 days in one thread (the very thread that spawned the 'people
dont help' comments).  


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Steve Totaro]

how much traffic?
\

- Original Message - 
From: "Steven Kalcevich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "andrew matthews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Asterisk Users Mailing List -
Non-Commercial Discussion" 
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt


> I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903&rd=1
>
>
> andrew matthews wrote:
>
> > I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own
> > servers. I'd love to help.
> >
> > On 6/26/05, *Matt Riddell* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > Andres wrote:
> > > So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
> >
> > Sh1t.
> >
> > Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
> >
> > So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
> > site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
> >
> > Offers?
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Matt Riddell
> > 
> >
>
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[Michael Di Martino]

I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem
is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the
were as lease some users would search.
The archives need to be fully indexed.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
szmidt
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk 
> admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just 
> might be a great list.
> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for 
> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too
bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users
it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade
stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". 
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the
Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area
droght with difficulties for any newcomer. 

The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just
noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get
started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place
that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.

-- 

Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Dan Perik]

I'm not sure which is funnier... that someone would offer something like
that for sale on ebay, or that someone would pay $10.56 + $4.50 shipping
to buy it.

rofl
- Dan

Steven Kalcevich wrote:

> I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903&rd=1
>
>
>
>
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Robert Webb]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:27:22 -0400
 Andrew Kohlsmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
If this list spent at least half the time on helping 
other asterisk

admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might 
be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most 
request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of 
unanswered.


Do you have some proof of this?  I find the list rather 
helpful on the whole, 
with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects 
inbetween.


-A.



I think he is just frustrated because only two people have 
replied to his question about his IAXy device not working 
after having repeated his same question a dozen times in 
new threads..


Robert
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

Feel free to unsubscribe at your earliest convenience.

I for one disagree with you completely.

The only questions that occasionally go unanswered are those that were
just asked, are written twenty times on the Wiki, or are intrinsicly
stupid.
And even those questions are often answered with redirection to the
resource that documents them.  People on this list are helpful and
genuinely interested in assisting their fellow users.

Feel free to hang at the Qmail list of that is what brings you joy.
That would have to be better than listening to you deride this list for
no reason other than you don't like today's topic.  If this list needed
the likes of you or the other netcop, then you opinion might matter.
Fortunately, it does not.

Cheers,
Wiley




 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Di
Martino
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:31 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
list and observe.
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:43 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

On Mon, 2005-06-27 at 07:04 -0400, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 02:45, Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica wrote:
> > I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt
etc
> > So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that 
> > really matter.
> >
> > If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, 
> > eat, drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it 
> > there and not here.
> 
> I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.  
> There's no flaming, there's no bashing.  Sure it's offtopic but it'll 
> die within a few more days...  Why snuff it?  I am positive we're all 
> not geographically close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting 
> up an entirely new list is silly.
> 
> So I ask you -- what should people do?
> 
> -A.

I think he was upset that people were talking about the Daily Asterisk
News website, and people were offering to donate webspace to keep it up
and stuff and all of that happened under the "LiveVoip is Bankrupt"
subject line.  

But then I could be wrong, maybe he did not actually read anything but
the subject itself and decided to attack people to force this very
conversation, about him doing exactly what he is claiming others are
doing.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Michael Di Martino]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew
Kohlsmith
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:27 PM
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk 
> admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just 
> might be a great list.
> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for 
> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

Do you have some proof of this?  I find the list rather helpful on the
whole, with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects
inbetween.

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



This list has potential but it is not strong enough dealing w/ asterisk
system issues.


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Michael Di Martino]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:03 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

On Mon, 2005-06-27 at 14:31 -0400, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk 
> admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just 
> might be a great list.
> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for 
> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
> 
> If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users 
> list and observe.
>  
The bankrupt thread is mostly now about finiding hosting for Daily
Asterisk News, which I feel is helping asterisk people, and people
whining about this thread.  

The whining seemed to be from people reading the subject line and not
even bothering to notice that the majority of the posts under this
subject were about an asterisk specific thing when I saw that.  This
isnt slashdot we should actually read more than the subjects before
commenting.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378

8
Not really. This thread does not belong on this list. It is off topic
and a waste of time for admins dealing w/  real system issues. Like I
said sign up for the qmail list and you will see how a real user list
operates.




___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread

[steve szmidt]

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
> admins as it does on
> trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for
> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same 
questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad.

However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users it does 
so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade stand 
operators and maybe even bigger service providers.

It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". 
Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the Internet, but 
enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area droght with 
difficulties for any newcomer. 

The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when 
entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great 
importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just noise.

One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an 
Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started 
without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that 
frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki.

-- 

Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety 
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Steven Kalcevich]

I for one will not be using anymore live voip...I found my own provider.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=61840&item=5783732903&rd=1


andrew matthews wrote:

I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own 
servers. I'd love to help.


On 6/26/05, *Matt Riddell* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


Andres wrote:
> So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt

Sh1t.

Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.

So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.

Offers?

--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell




___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
> admins as it does on
> trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for
> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

Do you have some proof of this?  I find the list rather helpful on the whole, 
with interjections of other (sometimes very OT) subjects inbetween.

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Monday 27 June 2005 14:24, David Brodbeck wrote:
> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626
>
> Right click on the message list heading, Customize Current View..., Group
> By..., Conversation.

I just ran over and did that on a system with OfficeXP ... good lord, 
Microsoft even screwed up threading... How can anyone read that?

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Mon, 2005-06-27 at 14:31 -0400, Michael Di Martino wrote:
> If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
> admins as it does on
> trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
> As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for
> assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.
> 
> If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
> list and observe.
>  
The bankrupt thread is mostly now about finiding hosting for Daily
Asterisk News, which I feel is helping asterisk people, and people
whining about this thread.  

The whining seemed to be from people reading the subject line and not
even bothering to notice that the majority of the posts under this
subject were about an asterisk specific thing when I saw that.  This
isnt slashdot we should actually read more than the subjects before
commenting.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[David Brodbeck]

> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Riddell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> Heh, go easy on the guy, he probably hasn't got threads and 
> has to read 
> every topic just to get to the topics he likes.
> 
> :D
> 
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626

Right click on the message list heading, Customize Current View..., Group
By..., Conversation.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Michael Di Martino]

If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk
admins as it does on
trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list.
As it stands now this list is kind of useless.  Most request for
assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered.

If you would like to see how a good list is run join the Qmail users
list and observe.
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 2:43 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

On Mon, 2005-06-27 at 07:04 -0400, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 02:45, Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica wrote:
> > I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt
etc
> > So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that 
> > really matter.
> >
> > If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, 
> > eat, drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it 
> > there and not here.
> 
> I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.  
> There's no flaming, there's no bashing.  Sure it's offtopic but it'll 
> die within a few more days...  Why snuff it?  I am positive we're all 
> not geographically close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting 
> up an entirely new list is silly.
> 
> So I ask you -- what should people do?
> 
> -A.

I think he was upset that people were talking about the Daily Asterisk
News website, and people were offering to donate webspace to keep it up
and stuff and all of that happened under the "LiveVoip is Bankrupt"
subject line.  

But then I could be wrong, maybe he did not actually read anything but
the subject itself and decided to attack people to force this very
conversation, about him doing exactly what he is claiming others are
doing.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[andrew matthews]

I can host here in the US, lots of bandwidth. I have all my own servers. I'd love to help.On 6/26/05, Matt Riddell <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Andres wrote:> So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
Sh1t.Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql basedsite, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.Offers?
--Cheers,Matt Riddell___http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)___Asterisk-Users mailing listAsterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-usersTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:   
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Mon, 2005-06-27 at 07:04 -0400, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 02:45, Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica wrote:
> > I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc
> > So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
> > matter.
> >
> > If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
> > drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
> > not here.
> 
> I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.  There's 
> no flaming, there's no bashing.  Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a 
> few more days...  Why snuff it?  I am positive we're all not geographically 
> close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list is 
> silly.
> 
> So I ask you -- what should people do?
> 
> -A.

I think he was upset that people were talking about the Daily Asterisk
News website, and people were offering to donate webspace to keep it up
and stuff and all of that happened under the "LiveVoip is Bankrupt"
subject line.  

But then I could be wrong, maybe he did not actually read anything but
the subject itself and decided to attack people to force this very
conversation, about him doing exactly what he is claiming others are
doing.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Lists]

On Monday 27 June 2005 10:27, Rusty Shackleford wrote:
> > I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down,
> > bankrupt etc So please stop nagging about it and move on
> > to some topics that really matter.

No, this is a good lesson to listen to and possibly learn some things from. As 
Andrew said it's not even flaming. 

-- 

List Manager
Network Voice Comunications, Inc.
netwvcom.com
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

Well, as someone who doesn't use threads...  I think I can say it is not
the end of the world.  I find scanning my Asterisk mail folder to be
pretty easy

W

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt
Riddell
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 8:47 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 02:45, Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica wrote:
> 
>>I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt
etc
>>So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
>>matter.
>>
>>If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant,
eat,
>>drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there
and
>>not here.
> 
> 
> I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.
There's 
> no flaming, there's no bashing.  Sure it's offtopic but it'll die
within a 
> few more days...  Why snuff it?  I am positive we're all not
geographically 
> close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new
list is 
> silly.
> 
> So I ask you -- what should people do?

Heh, go easy on the guy, he probably hasn't got threads and has to read 
every topic just to get to the topics he likes.

:D

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626

-- 
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
___

http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica]

Hi Wiley,

I understand that, and it was not my intentions on being to negative.
It is just that this is the users list and for the Biz we have the biz list.
Here on the users list we should discuss topics about using asterisk and on
the biz list we should discuss offers and bankruptcies.

I understand it is important to discuss those things but and that people are
warn about the bad services etc. but that is in my opinion business. 

Marcel van Kaam
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wiley Siler
Sent: maandag 27 juni 2005 17:49
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Well, I guess stating at the bottom of the list is a bad idea sometimes.


Sorry, Marcel, I just find this a relevant topic since so much money and
time have been wasted trying to use this company's service.

Will drop it shortly though.

Cheers,
W


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcel van
Kaam, Fonetica
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:46 PM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Hi All,

I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.

If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not
here.

Marcel van Kaam
 
Fonetica Teleservices


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

Having read the TOS from LiveVoip many times, I can almost assure you it
was written by the LiveVoip staff and not a lawyer.  Due to that, I
cannot imagine them slithering out of this entirely.

W


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marie
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:44 PM
To: snacktime; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

It depends on how the actual purchase was worded whether or not you
should be able to get a chargeback. I didn't buy from them, so I don't
know.

With some clever legal wording, it is possible to sell something that
the end user considers "prepay/future use" (like calling card
minutes), but as far as the credit card company etc. are concerned it
was a final sale over and done with like a normal purchase.

This is not to say that the issuing bank is going to give one and they
will just as likely process a chargeback as normal (and later reverse
it as long as someone is still at the other end shooting back the
boilerplate rebuttal). I'd suggest people wait as long as they can
before filing a chargeback -- merchants only get so many days (10 on
my account) to respond before it's automatically settled in the
customer's favor. If you wait as long as you can, there's a better
chance someone won't be sitting there replying.

I used to work for a shady company that sold calling cards
online/phone by credit card. It was a big thing to make sure that the
sales material/call-scripts were worded to make sure that once the
customer took posession of the pin code the transaction was
"completed" in terms of the credit card company. They often "lost
accounts" or "discontinued programs" that customers still had minutes
in, and they were able to escape from chargebacks by sending the fine
print to their bank as their rebuttal to the customer's complaint.

I didn't stay long after finding this out, the pay wasn't worth having
a company like that on my CV.

If you read up on the rumors around Dr. Phil, supposedly it's quite
common (and in some isolated areas still legal) to do a similar thing
with health clubs. Sell one year membership contracts, factor the
contract to someone else, close. The customer is still responsible for
completing their payments to the factor. The customer can't chargeback
payments they already made via credit card because the way the
contract is worded it doesn't matter if the health club is still open
or not.

With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Matt Riddell]

Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:

On Monday 27 June 2005 02:45, Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica wrote:


I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.

If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not here.



I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.  There's 
no flaming, there's no bashing.  Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a 
few more days...  Why snuff it?  I am positive we're all not geographically 
close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list is 
silly.


So I ask you -- what should people do?


Heh, go easy on the guy, he probably hasn't got threads and has to read 
every topic just to get to the topics he likes.


:D

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626

--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
___

http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

Actually, if you look at my posts from a month or two ago, you can see
that they not only had to have known, they were publicly stating that
they were expanding.  Joop personally told me that they were going to
offer Vonage type of service and that they were opening service in the
UK.  He actually was exceedingly verbose and never gave hint to the fact
that they were in trouble (not that he would).   This should be no
surprise to anyone.

I just hope they burn for it...

W


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of trixter
http://www.0xdecafbad.com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 8:46 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 20:49 -0600, Rich Adamson wrote:
> > With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that
LiveVOIP
> > didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms
of
> > service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
> > don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
> > trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
> > know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
> 
> Since that was an LLC operation and unless management pierced the corp
> vail, the LLC has far more liabilities then it does assets so the LLC
> is bankrupt. There is a legal pecking order as to who receives
payments
> after the assets are disposed. As user's of the service, we're on the
> bottom of that list and will probably take at least a year or two
> to reach closure.
> 

LLC/Corporations do not protect officers of the company if the officers,
through official job duties, commit crimes.  Taking money for services
you know you cant provide.  Its prima facia if you sell below cost and
cant prove that you thought you have VC money or something else to
offset that 'promotional' period and then file bankrupcy.  This is to
prevent someone from basically doing a ponzi scheme, where people late
in the game are paying for the people today, eventually the bubble
bursts and the late comers are left holding the bag.  While this is
specific to US law, livevoip in this case was a US based company so that
applies.  This may not apply to other companies doing basically the same
thing in other jurisdictions.  And I dont know that they were doing
this, but I am certain they didnt decide to file bankrupcy and file the
same day, there had to be a period when they started to file but kept
accepting new customers knowing those customers werent going to get what
they paid for.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

Well, I guess stating at the bottom of the list is a bad idea sometimes.


Sorry, Marcel, I just find this a relevant topic since so much money and
time have been wasted trying to use this company's service.

Will drop it shortly though.

Cheers,
W


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marcel van
Kaam, Fonetica
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:46 PM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Hi All,

I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.

If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
not
here.

Marcel van Kaam
 
Fonetica Teleservices


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

As predicted

In keeping with LiveVoip company policy, even this letter seems
antagonistic towards customers and creditors.  You are under a STAY!!
Don't talk to us!  

Wow, I guess the merger with the trailer park DSL company just did not
help at all.  And after Joop spent so much time shining me the good
lies...

Well, it could not have happened to a nicer company.

W


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andres
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:39 AM
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt 


---

There is a Federal Court Order in place and has been since Friday early
a.m. ALL Suppliers are now under a Court Order that prevents them from
terminating any and all services to LiveVoip LLC. If they take such any
action they will be in direct
violation of a U.S. Federal Court Order. If you have any questions you
may contact our lawyer - Customers and Creditors are now under a U.S.
Court Ordered Stay NOT to have any contact with LiveVoip LLC Management.

LiveVoip LLC has Ceased Operations and Filed for Bankruptcy. This action
was taken after the company was unable to resolve issues with carriers
over billing, mass credit card fraud, suppliers not delivering on what
they had been paid for among other things.
A Stay Order is in effect at this time and all questions must be
directed to our company lawyer. Creditors will be hearing from the
Courts in due course.

LiveVoip LLC is no Closed.

United States Federal Bankruptcy Court District Montana
Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC

Company Lawyer: Robert Kampfer Esq. 406.727.954 
The LiveVoip network is offline. An Update will be issued on our main
website. The trouble ticket server is also having its own problems.
Please watch our main for site for complete details.


LiveVoip LLC
---


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Wiley Siler]

You just got a tax write off because your money is certainly locked up
in chapter 11.

W


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bashir
Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:02 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now
...?

Bashir

I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID .
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Capouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"

Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt


> Yair Hakak wrote:
> > well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
> > customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
> > questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to
be
> > around for a long time.
> >
>
> I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having
> with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at
their
> customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
>
> Survival of the fittest . . .
>
> B.
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Danny Froberg]

I'd be happy to host you in our Montreal Datacenter at no cost.
Contact me off-list if you're interested.

/Danny

Matt Riddell wrote:

Andres wrote:


So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt



Sh1t.

Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.

So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based 
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.


Offers?



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Rusty Shackleford]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:46 PM
> To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, 
> bankrupt etc So please stop nagging about it and move on 
> to some topics that really matter.
> 
> If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a 
> restaurant, eat, drink and nag and wine about it as much as 
> you want. But do it there and not here.

Thank you, Mr. Self-Appointed Netcop. Now please study the features of
your mail client that allow you to avoid reading "offensive" topics. 

Granted, this issue is only tangentially topical for the -users list,
but I believe the discussion is largely worthwhile, if only for the
lessons this episode brings to us.

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 06/27/2005
 

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Monday 27 June 2005 07:21, Francesco Peeters wrote:
> *Shrugs*  Seen it, been there... This happens on all lists at some point
> in time... Several lists I am on have already created an OT or TALK list
> besides the main list...
>
> Whenever that happens, I just subscribe to the 2nd list and customize my
> procmail recipes to toss it in the same folder...  :-/

That's kind of a neat idea.  :-)

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Francesco Peeters]

On Mon, June 27, 2005 13:04, Andrew Kohlsmith said:
> On Monday 27 June 2005 02:45, Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica wrote:
>> I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc
>> So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
>> matter.
>>
>> If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
>> drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
>> not here.
>
> I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.
> There's
> no flaming, there's no bashing.  Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a
> few more days...  Why snuff it?  I am positive we're all not
> geographically
> close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list
> is
> silly.
>
> So I ask you -- what should people do?
>
> -A.

*Shrugs*  Seen it, been there... This happens on all lists at some point
in time... Several lists I am on have already created an OT or TALK list
besides the main list...

Whenever that happens, I just subscribe to the 2nd list and customize my
procmail recipes to toss it in the same folder...  :-/

And then live goes on...

-- 
Francesco Peeters

GPG Key = AA69 E7C6 1D8A F148 160C  D5C4 9943 6E38 D5E3 7704
If your program doesn't recognize my signature, please visit
http://www.CAcert.org/index.php?id=3 to retrieve the Root CA certificate.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Monday 27 June 2005 02:45, Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica wrote:
> I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc
> So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
> matter.
>
> If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
> drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and
> not here.

I've never understood this -- people are having a decent discussion.  There's 
no flaming, there's no bashing.  Sure it's offtopic but it'll die within a 
few more days...  Why snuff it?  I am positive we're all not geographically 
close to discuss this in a restaurant, and setting up an entirely new list is 
silly.

So I ask you -- what should people do?

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Marcel van Kaam, Fonetica]

Hi All,

I think by now everybody knows that LiveVoip went down, bankrupt etc
So please stop nagging about it and move on to some topics that really
matter.

If you want to discuss LiveVoip, get all together in a restaurant, eat,
drink and nag and wine about it as much as you want. But do it there and not
here.

Marcel van Kaam
 
Fonetica Teleservices


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 20:49 -0600, Rich Adamson wrote:
> > With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
> > didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
> > service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
> > don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
> > trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
> > know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
> 
> Since that was an LLC operation and unless management pierced the corp
> vail, the LLC has far more liabilities then it does assets so the LLC
> is bankrupt. There is a legal pecking order as to who receives payments
> after the assets are disposed. As user's of the service, we're on the
> bottom of that list and will probably take at least a year or two
> to reach closure.
> 

LLC/Corporations do not protect officers of the company if the officers,
through official job duties, commit crimes.  Taking money for services
you know you cant provide.  Its prima facia if you sell below cost and
cant prove that you thought you have VC money or something else to
offset that 'promotional' period and then file bankrupcy.  This is to
prevent someone from basically doing a ponzi scheme, where people late
in the game are paying for the people today, eventually the bubble
bursts and the late comers are left holding the bag.  While this is
specific to US law, livevoip in this case was a US based company so that
applies.  This may not apply to other companies doing basically the same
thing in other jurisdictions.  And I dont know that they were doing
this, but I am certain they didnt decide to file bankrupcy and file the
same day, there had to be a period when they started to file but kept
accepting new customers knowing those customers werent going to get what
they paid for.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Michael Di Martino]

Hey pooch are u ever going to put up the howto's from the Atlanta
asterisk conference? You only said you would. Don't be like LiveVOIP and
follow thru on your word.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian
Capouch
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:09 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Yair Hakak wrote:
> well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
> customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
> questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
> around for a long time.
> 

I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having 
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their 
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.

Survival of the fittest . . .

B.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Rich Adamson]

> With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
> didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
> service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
> don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
> trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
> know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.

Since that was an LLC operation and unless management pierced the corp
vail, the LLC has far more liabilities then it does assets so the LLC
is bankrupt. There is a legal pecking order as to who receives payments
after the assets are disposed. As user's of the service, we're on the
bottom of that list and will probably take at least a year or two
to reach closure.


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Marie]

It depends on how the actual purchase was worded whether or not you
should be able to get a chargeback. I didn't buy from them, so I don't
know.

With some clever legal wording, it is possible to sell something that
the end user considers "prepay/future use" (like calling card
minutes), but as far as the credit card company etc. are concerned it
was a final sale over and done with like a normal purchase.

This is not to say that the issuing bank is going to give one and they
will just as likely process a chargeback as normal (and later reverse
it as long as someone is still at the other end shooting back the
boilerplate rebuttal). I'd suggest people wait as long as they can
before filing a chargeback -- merchants only get so many days (10 on
my account) to respond before it's automatically settled in the
customer's favor. If you wait as long as you can, there's a better
chance someone won't be sitting there replying.

I used to work for a shady company that sold calling cards
online/phone by credit card. It was a big thing to make sure that the
sales material/call-scripts were worded to make sure that once the
customer took posession of the pin code the transaction was
"completed" in terms of the credit card company. They often "lost
accounts" or "discontinued programs" that customers still had minutes
in, and they were able to escape from chargebacks by sending the fine
print to their bank as their rebuttal to the customer's complaint.

I didn't stay long after finding this out, the pay wasn't worth having
a company like that on my CV.

If you read up on the rumors around Dr. Phil, supposedly it's quite
common (and in some isolated areas still legal) to do a similar thing
with health clubs. Sell one year membership contracts, factor the
contract to someone else, close. The customer is still responsible for
completing their payments to the factor. The customer can't chargeback
payments they already made via credit card because the way the
contract is worded it doesn't matter if the health club is still open
or not.

With lawyers a dime a dozen these days, I can't imagine that LiveVOIP
didn't make sure to put every protection they could in their terms of
service or what have you. Most people don't even read them, or just
don't care what it says. I know nothing about LiveVOIP, so I'm not
trying to suggest that they were indeed shady -- just letting people
know that chargeback rules aren't a fix-all.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[snacktime]

> 
> While some may be able to get credit card refunds (depending on a
> variety of factors, like how long ago they were charged, any court
> orders in place right now, etc - most banks wont give you a refund if
> they know they wont get any money from the merchant, unless you can
> prove fraud to some degree) there are more than likely more customers
> that will not. 

Doesn't work that way.  Issuing banks are guaranteed payment by
acquiring banks.  It's the acquiring bank that has to eat the loss,
not the issuing bank.  Issuing banks eat losses when a cardholder
defaults, but never when a merchant defaults.

And in cases where the service is delivered over an extended period of
time, the clock for when you can chargeback doesnt' start ticking
until that time period is up.  That's why acquirers don't like prepaid
plans or extended length subscriptions.  Someone like livevoip can
charge a bunch of people and the acquiring bank can be eating losses
over a year out.

Chris
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Rich Adamson]

> > If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution.  we have manufactured
> > our own equipment and network from the ground up.  The service has been
> > selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
> > internation).  If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
> > information, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without bothering 
> to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account already has me 
> sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any money.

I'll second that one big time!


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Sahil Gupta]

E-mail me off-list, we'll help out :-)

Regards,


Sahil Gupta
VoiceValley

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005, trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com wrote:


On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 23:29 +0200, Matt Riddell wrote:

Andres wrote:

So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt


Sh1t.

Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.

So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.

Offers?



sourceforge "asterisk daily news documentation project"?  They have some
bandwidth, file space, php and mysql are reported to work...

Dunno if this will fit your goals though.

--
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 23:29 +0200, Matt Riddell wrote:
> Andres wrote:
> > So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
> 
> Sh1t.
> 
> Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.
> 
> So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based 
> site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
> 
> Offers?
> 

sourceforge "asterisk daily news documentation project"?  They have some
bandwidth, file space, php and mysql are reported to work...

Dunno if this will fit your goals though.

-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 16:42 -0400, Alexander Lopez wrote:

> If I recall recently LiveVoIP touted it 'merger' with a large
> corporation (daddy BigBucks). I also remember that it was posted that it
> was not in the best interest of LiveVoip to move forward on the merger.
> In hind sight this is probably the result of the due-diligence done on
> the larger corporation's side. Citing non-disclosure and other standard
> agreements entered during transactions such as these it does not
> surprise me that we (the customers) were not told about the writing on
> the wall..

My writing on the wall reference was not towards customers, instead it
was towards livevoip (or any other company) when they accepted money for
service they knew they could not provide.  

In america at least (most other countries most likely have laws against
this as well) it is illegal to accept money for services you know you
cannot provide.  It is also illegal (falls under fraud) for companies to
sell services below cost knowing they will drive themselves into the
ground and file bankrupcy.

While some may be able to get credit card refunds (depending on a
variety of factors, like how long ago they were charged, any court
orders in place right now, etc - most banks wont give you a refund if
they know they wont get any money from the merchant, unless you can
prove fraud to some degree) there are more than likely more customers
that will not.  The only way to go after anything would be to go after
the people involved (a corporation does not shield oneself against
illegal actions - if that were the case CEOs across the country wouldnt
be in jail, have been in jail, facing jail, or trying to appeal their
jail sentences).


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Listacc]

are you guys still looking for space? I can donate you some space tell 
me how much you need? I own a communications company based in Tulsa, OK. 
OCOSA Communications, LLChttp://www.ocosa.com We don't generally do 
we just started and mySQL as well give me a quote and I 'll will get you 
hooked up if your interested!


Otis Surratt Jr.

Peter Corlett wrote:


Matt Riddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
 


Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host. So, unless
anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site, it
will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.
   



 


Offers?
   



How much bandwidth does it consume?

 




___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Andres]

snacktime wrote:


For those that paid by credit card, you can call your bank and get any
amount they owe you refunded.  You are not a creditor as far as the
bankruptcy is concerned, the acquring bank is.

Chris
___


 


Hi Chris,

I am curious to know how this would work in this case.  Lets assume 
someone purchased $100 worth of LiveVoip service using his Bank of 
America Visa card (and did not get a chance to use the service).  So now 
LiveVoip is bankrupt and lets assume the owners fled with the money they 
made so the bank accounts are cleaned out.  If the person now calls Bank 
of America to dispute the charge, then who loses the $100 in this case?  
Visa, Bank of America, or the consumer?



--
Andres



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Peter Corlett]

Matt Riddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
> Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host. So, unless
> anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site, it
> will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.

> Offers?

How much bandwidth does it consume?

-- 
You fall out of your mother's womb, you crawl across open country under fire,
and drop into your grave.
- Quentin Crisp
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Joshua Colp]

Matt - catch me on IRC (it's file).

- Joshua Colp. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Riddell
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

Andres wrote:
> So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt

Sh1t.

Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.

So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based site, it
will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.

Offers?

--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
___

http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Matt Riddell]

Andres wrote:

So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt


Sh1t.

Looks like the Daily Asterisk News will need a new host.

So, unless anyone can donate space for a custom php and mysql based 
site, it will be hosted in either New Zealand or Italy.


Offers?

--
Cheers,

Matt Riddell
___

http://www.sineapps.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News - html)
http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php (Daily Asterisk News - rss)
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Alexander Lopez]

 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:21 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
> 
> On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 11:32 -0700, Brian Litzinger wrote:
> > Anytime a small new organization asks for up front payment, 
> I wonder 
> > about a locally famous case.
> > 
> > Back in the days of beepers, a local company was selling beeper 
> > service for about 30% less than anyone in exchange for a relatively 
> > good portion of payment up front.  Can't remember if it was
> > 3 months or 1 year.  May have been both.
> > 
> > They collected up the payments and paid the money out in 
> huge salaries.
> > 
> > Then they went bankrupt.  It is apparently difficult for bankruptcy 
> > courts to recover salary payments.
> > 
> > It is apparently a well known scam executed in a number of 
> different 
> > ways.
> 
> I recall a case against someone in New York City where a lady 
> was doing that with travel, selling cruises below her cost, 
> etc.  Presales upto 6 months ahead went to pay for tickets 
> today.  She paid herself $100k for her services.  They 
> indicted her on fraud becuase it is illegal to sell stuff 
> below cost, knowing that you cant possibly make good on what 
> you sell.  
> 
> Perhaps the same could be true of livevoip for anyone that 
> lost any big amount of money for prepayment on services they 
> couldnt render.  And certainly for payments where the 
> 'writing was on the wall', ie they knew they were going to 
> file bankrupcy yet accepted payments for months they knew 
> they wouldnt be in business.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
> UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
> US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
> FreeWorldDialup: 635378

If I recall recently LiveVoIP touted it 'merger' with a large
corporation (daddy BigBucks). I also remember that it was posted that it
was not in the best interest of LiveVoip to move forward on the merger.
In hind sight this is probably the result of the due-diligence done on
the larger corporation's side. Citing non-disclosure and other standard
agreements entered during transactions such as these it does not
surprise me that we (the customers) were not told about the writing on
the wall..



Alex
 
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[snacktime]

For those that paid by credit card, you can call your bank and get any
amount they owe you refunded.  You are not a creditor as far as the
bankruptcy is concerned, the acquring bank is.

Chris
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 14:32 -0400, Orlando Guitián wrote:
> If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution.  we have manufactured 
> our own equipment and network from the ground up.  The service has been 
> selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and 
> internation).  If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and 
> information, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

A year of selling 'domestic and internation' and you have an msn.com
email address not one that is off the domian of the company you
represent?  Interesting concept, does that really yield higher sales?
Could be a new marketing stragety I am unfamiliar with.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com]

On Sun, 2005-06-26 at 11:32 -0700, Brian Litzinger wrote:
> Anytime a small new organization asks for up front payment, I wonder 
> about a locally famous case.
> 
> Back in the days of beepers, a local company was selling beeper
> service for about 30% less than anyone in exchange for a relatively
> good portion of payment up front.  Can't remember if it was
> 3 months or 1 year.  May have been both.
> 
> They collected up the payments and paid the money out in huge salaries.
> 
> Then they went bankrupt.  It is apparently difficult for bankruptcy
> courts to recover salary payments.
> 
> It is apparently a well known scam executed in a number of different
> ways.

I recall a case against someone in New York City where a lady was doing
that with travel, selling cruises below her cost, etc.  Presales upto 6
months ahead went to pay for tickets today.  She paid herself $100k for
her services.  They indicted her on fraud becuase it is illegal to sell
stuff below cost, knowing that you cant possibly make good on what you
sell.  

Perhaps the same could be true of livevoip for anyone that lost any big
amount of money for prepayment on services they couldnt render.  And
certainly for payments where the 'writing was on the wall', ie they knew
they were going to file bankrupcy yet accepted payments for months they
knew they wouldnt be in business.


-- 
Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel
UK +44 870 340 4605   Germany +49 801 777 555 3402
US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200
FreeWorldDialup: 635378


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[steve szmidt]

On Sunday 26 June 2005 15:20, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote:
> On Sunday 26 June 2005 14:32, Orlando Guitián wrote:
> > If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution.  we have manufactured
> > our own equipment and network from the ground up.  The service has been
> > selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
> > internation).  If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
> > information, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without
> bothering to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account
> already has me sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any
> money.

It would seem that people just don't realize how it makes them look.

-- 

Steve Szmidt

"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety 
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Orlando Guitián]

here is the information.  The website is in spanish (www.sebell.com), 
therefore, i will send you the information in english on monday.  To answer 
your question, the service has been sold primarly to international banking 
institutions and financial organizations via word of mouth.  We are 
currently translating the web site to english.


The service provides calling within the USA and Canada as well as 
international access.  Users (and supervisors) have realtime access to their 
phone calls and billing.


The DIDs are provided for Miami (area codes 305 and 786) as well as Buenos 
Aires (+54 11), Argentina.


The web site:
www.sebell.com

My corporate email:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



From: Andrew Kohlsmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion 


To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:20:08 -0400

On Sunday 26 June 2005 14:32, Orlando Guitián wrote:
> If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution.  we have 
manufactured

> our own equipment and network from the ground up.  The service has been
> selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
> internation).  If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
> information, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without 
bothering
to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account already has 
me

sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any money.

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Andrew Kohlsmith]

On Sunday 26 June 2005 14:32, Orlando Guitián wrote:
> If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution.  we have manufactured
> our own equipment and network from the ground up.  The service has been
> selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and
> internation).  If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and
> information, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I'm sorry but anyone selling their service for over a year without bothering 
to mention their company name and indeed, using an msn account already has me 
sufficiently suspicious to decide against giving them any money.

-A.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Orlando Guitián]

If anybody is interested, we offer a VoIP solution.  we have manufactured 
our own equipment and network from the ground up.  The service has been 
selling successfully selling for over one year (both domestic and 
internation).  If interested, let know and i will send you pricing and 
information, [EMAIL PROTECTED]



From: Rich Adamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion 

To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion 


Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 07:01:11 -0600

I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com



> I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now 
...?

>
> Bashir
>
> I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
> and my canadian DID .
> - Original Message -
> From: "Brian Capouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
> 
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
>
>
> > Yair Hakak wrote:
> > > well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
> > > customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
> > > questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to 
be

> > > around for a long time.
> > >
> >
> > I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having
> > with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at 
their

> > customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
> >
> > Survival of the fittest . . .
> >
> > B.
> > ___
> > Asterisk-Users mailing list
> > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >
>
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>

---End of Original Message-


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Darren Wiebe]

Yeah, I chuckled a little bit when I read the notice.  It has absolutely 
nothing to do with any stupid things they might have done, customers 
they chased away etc.  At least they only had $30.00 of mine. :-)


Darren

Mark Musone wrote:


funny thing is just like their previous attitude with them blaming all
their customers, now they are blaming their bankruptcy on their
suppliers, clecs, and credit card fraud...

i hope one day they wake up and look in the mirror and see who the
real problem is...


p.s. i _love_ teliax. been using them for about 3 months now, after
canceling my broadvoice account for over a year and a half..i'll never
go back..


-Mark




On 6/26/05, Rich Adamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com



   


I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...?

Bashir

I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID .
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Capouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"

Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt


 


Yair Hakak wrote:
   


well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.

 


I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.

Survival of the fittest . . .

B.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

   


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

 


---End of Original Message-


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
 http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

   


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

 



___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Mark Musone]

funny thing is just like their previous attitude with them blaming all
their customers, now they are blaming their bankruptcy on their
suppliers, clecs, and credit card fraud...

i hope one day they wake up and look in the mirror and see who the
real problem is...


p.s. i _love_ teliax. been using them for about 3 months now, after
canceling my broadvoice account for over a year and a half..i'll never
go back..


-Mark




On 6/26/05, Rich Adamson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com
> 
> 
> 
> > I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...?
> >
> > Bashir
> >
> > I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
> > and my canadian DID .
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Brian Capouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
> > 
> > Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
> >
> >
> > > Yair Hakak wrote:
> > > > well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
> > > > customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
> > > > questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
> > > > around for a long time.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having
> > > with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
> > > customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
> > >
> > > Survival of the fittest . . .
> > >
> > > B.
> > > ___
> > > Asterisk-Users mailing list
> > > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> > >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Asterisk-Users mailing list
> > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >
> 
> ---End of Original Message-
> 
> 
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Rich Adamson]

I've had pretty good luck with www.teliax.com



> I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...?
> 
> Bashir
> 
> I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
> and my canadian DID .
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Capouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
> 
> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt
> 
> 
> > Yair Hakak wrote:
> > > well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
> > > customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
> > > questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
> > > around for a long time.
> > >
> >
> > I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having
> > with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
> > customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
> >
> > Survival of the fittest . . .
> >
> > B.
> > ___
> > Asterisk-Users mailing list
> > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >
> 
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> 

---End of Original Message-


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Bashir Ullah - www.Lamsre.Com]

I found a large IAX supported provider beside Voipjet. Now ...?

Bashir

I still i have good balance with them, I dont know what will be happend.
and my canadian DID .
- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Capouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"

Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt


> Yair Hakak wrote:
> > well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
> > customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
> > questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
> > around for a long time.
> >
>
> I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having
> with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their
> customers") I decided to stay clear of them.
>
> Survival of the fittest . . .
>
> B.
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>

___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Brian Capouch]

Yair Hakak wrote:

well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.



I agree totally.  After seeing some of the issues people were having 
with their customer support (or better, "flying off the handle at their 
customers") I decided to stay clear of them.


Survival of the fittest . . .

B.
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Yair Hakak]

well, i can't say i'm surprised. any company whose approach to
customers is "you are all scum trying to cheat us, don't ask
questions, and we'll help you when we feel like it" isn't going to be
around for a long time.



On 6/26/05, Andres <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> There is a Federal Court Order in place and has been since Friday early a.m. 
> ALL Suppliers are now under a Court Order that prevents them from terminating 
> any and all services to LiveVoip LLC. If they take such any action they will 
> be in direct
> violation of a U.S. Federal Court Order. If you have any questions you may 
> contact our lawyer - Customers and Creditors are now under a U.S. Court 
> Ordered Stay NOT to have any contact with LiveVoip LLC Management.
> 
> LiveVoip LLC has Ceased Operations and Filed for Bankruptcy. This action was 
> taken after the company was unable to resolve issues with carriers over 
> billing, mass credit card fraud, suppliers not delivering on what they had 
> been paid for among other things.
> A Stay Order is in effect at this time and all questions must be directed to 
> our company lawyer. Creditors will be hearing from the Courts in due course.
> 
> LiveVoip LLC is no Closed.
> 
> United States Federal Bankruptcy Court District Montana
> Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC
> 
> Company Lawyer: Robert Kampfer Esq. 406.727.954
> The LiveVoip network is offline. An Update will be issued on our main 
> website. The trouble ticket server is also having its own problems. Please 
> watch our main for site for complete details.
> 
> 
> LiveVoip LLC
> ---
> 
> 
> ___
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
   http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

[Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt

[Andres]

So it looks like Livevoip went Bankrupt 



---

There is a Federal Court Order in place and has been since Friday early a.m. 
ALL Suppliers are now under a Court Order that prevents them from terminating 
any and all services to LiveVoip LLC. If they take such any action they will be 
in direct
violation of a U.S. Federal Court Order. If you have any questions you may 
contact our lawyer - Customers and Creditors are now under a U.S. Court Ordered 
Stay NOT to have any contact with LiveVoip LLC Management.

LiveVoip LLC has Ceased Operations and Filed for Bankruptcy. This action was 
taken after the company was unable to resolve issues with carriers over 
billing, mass credit card fraud, suppliers not delivering on what they had been 
paid for among other things.
A Stay Order is in effect at this time and all questions must be directed to 
our company lawyer. Creditors will be hearing from the Courts in due course.

LiveVoip LLC is no Closed.

United States Federal Bankruptcy Court District Montana
Case: 05-62057 LiveVoip LLC

Company Lawyer: Robert Kampfer Esq. 406.727.954 
The LiveVoip network is offline. An Update will be issued on our main website. The trouble ticket server is also having its own problems. Please watch our main for site for complete details.



LiveVoip LLC
---


___
Asterisk-Users mailing list
Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
  http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users