Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
John Fraizer wrote: Oh, and if you like your Grandstream, don't ever handle, let alone USE a Cisco phone. You'll be ruined for life if you do. My grandstream is now a toy phone for my 1 y/o son. It never was much more than a toy to begin with. Oh, and if you like you're money, don't ever order, much less PAY FOR a Cisco phone. You'll be financially ruined for life if you do. My Cisco 7960 is in a museum now where people pay me $1 a look, but if they blink during the look, because it's a Cisco phone, that adds another quarter per blink. It never was much more than a rich man's toy to begin with. In other words, we have Grandstreams all over tarnation; they work just fine for what they cost, and I can seat a lot more people on VoIP with them than I can with Cisco's regally-priced offerings. B. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Tony Hoyle wrote: Eric Wieling wrote: Why are you even looking at VoIP? Analog ports and phones are pretty cheap. They are not pretty, but they are cheap and all the smarts are in the PBX. Free calls to the US, basically, since the leased line is dirt cheap to run. ie. the purpose of the exercise is to save money not spend it. I don't define the parameters, just work with them... I happened to mention I was interested in VOIP at the wrong moment and got landed with the task. TBH for what they need they could save a bundle by routing the calls through a cheap analogue telco (eg. call18866) and forgetting VOIP for a few years until it becomes commodity hardware. Tony Well, that's easy enough. Set an * server up and plug one (or more) of your existing analog outbound lines into the * server. Then, set your Analog PBX up to route calls that begin with say *8 or whatever via the * server. Normal calls go out over PSTN, cheap US LD could then be dialed as *81NXXNXX. You can do this with analog cards from Digium or with ATA-186's or one of the many other ATA type devices. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Eric Wieling wrote: Why are you even looking at VoIP? Analog ports and phones are pretty cheap. They are not pretty, but they are cheap and all the smarts are in the PBX. Free calls to the US, basically, since the leased line is dirt cheap to run. ie. the purpose of the exercise is to save money not spend it. I don't define the parameters, just work with them... I happened to mention I was interested in VOIP at the wrong moment and got landed with the task. TBH for what they need they could save a bundle by routing the calls through a cheap analogue telco (eg. call18866) and forgetting VOIP for a few years until it becomes commodity hardware. Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Hi! Our desktop phones were done as a package deal from the building owner (who also runs the existing PBX) for almost nothing. Then one option is to check if you can keep the PBX and the phones, and just put Asterisk in between this PBX and the Telco. Compensate the costs of the Asterisk hardware with less spending on calls due to routing through a VoIP proivder etc and see if that makes a good argument, but don't forget a decent Internet link. BTW: And are you sure people wouldn't like to have voicemail? You'll need to make them want that... ;- I guess you can even argue that voicemail increases productivity. Conferencing: From my experience that is a very handy feature if your company does team-oriented work. So the point is NOT to gather everyone in the conference room and then use that three-leg monster to talk to someone else, but to have everyone sitting in THEIR office and just quickly establish an - internal or external - ad-hoc conference when needed. If I can't spec out a system which is like that then the project will be shelved - which I suspect is precisely what my boss wants to happen (he's also the main advocate of the MSN Messenger solution). Corporate politics is like that... I'd rather use X-Lite than MSN Messenger... For myself I'd love to play with a Cisco but with the 7960 going for £600 a throw I'm not in the market for spending that much... ebay Cheers, Philipp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Philipp von Klitzing wrote: Then one option is to check if you can keep the PBX and the phones, and just put Asterisk in between this PBX and the Telco. Compensate the costs of the Asterisk hardware with less spending on calls due to routing through a VoIP proivder etc and see if that makes a good argument, but don't forget a decent Internet link. Hmm... we only have access to the company side of the PBX (we own the room with the patch board in it, but the PBX itself is actually handled elsewhere). Interesting idea though. BTW: And are you sure people wouldn't like to have voicemail? You'll need to make them want that... ;- I guess you can even argue that voicemail increases productivity. Since we share phones (at least the developers/non customer facing people) voicemail wouldn't work too well because we'd get each others' messages. The pen sticky pad method seems to be OK. If everyone had their own phone of course I could see it being quite useful (even a selling point of VOIP). Conferencing: From my experience that is a very handy feature if your company does team-oriented work. So the point is NOT to gather everyone in the conference room and then use that three-leg monster to talk to someone else, but to have everyone sitting in THEIR office and just quickly establish an - internal or external - ad-hoc conference when needed. For most theoretical uses of conference you call a meeting - face to face communication can never really be replaced. For inter-office and customer conferences you generally want to use the separate conference room/phone because it's handy to have silent listeners giving hand signals when the customer starts talking bull...t - it means the customer facing people don't have to understand the technical details. I'd rather use X-Lite than MSN Messenger... The advantage that MSN Messenger has is that it's installed on every machine (whether you like it or not!) so it's a zero effort (and zero cost) fallback. Tony -- All your code belongs to Santa Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 104D/4F4B6917 2003-09-13 Fingerprint: 063C AFB4 3026 F724 0AA2 02B8 E547 470E 4F4B 6917 Phone(FWD): (0845 004 5566) 413300 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
I would not recommend software RAID. My experience is that, if there is a reboot resulting from an abnormal shutdown, Linux will recover (re-copy) the secondary drive. This process pegs the processor (90-100%) and takes a lng time. Of course, voice quality suffers when a processor is not available. Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On Wednesday 02 June 2004 22:55, Tony Hoyle wrote: Probably a good idea. Just need to work out how much the channel bank costs (~60 phones at the moment, probably best to allow for ~100). Adit600 with 48 FXS = ~USD$500-600 on ebay TE405P = USD$1500 Two Adit600s give you 96 ports and the TE405P will let you grow that to 192 without breaking a sweat for $2700. You can save $500 by using two T100Ps but you won't be able to get past 96 ports without more Digium hardware... and they don't bus master either, but not sure how big a deal that is. :-) Remember 96 ports translating from slinear - GSM or iLBC or g729 is going to require some processor power. AND you're talking the backbone of your company's phone network too. At the very least I'd be looking dual Xeon (mobo quality speaks for itself) with SCSI RAID1 (HW or SW) and dual redundant power. Supermicro makes such a system, I think 1 proc, 512M ECC RAM and dual 9G drives was just under USD$1200. And if you're playing it safe, you'll have TWO TE405Ps and an entire extra Adit600 chassis + power supply + at least 1 T1 controller + 1 octal FXS card lying around. Ask yourself how much fun it will be to have a dead card/power supply/motherboard/channel bank chassis and the entire phone system is down while you're sitting there with your thumb up your arse because 5 minutes ago you were bragging about how much money you saved by not having the spares handy. :-) Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Hi! BTW: And are you sure people wouldn't like to have voicemail? You'll need to make them want that... ;- I guess you can even argue that voicemail increases productivity. Since we share phones (at least the developers/non customer facing people) voicemail wouldn't work too well because we'd get each others' messages. The pen sticky pad method seems to be OK. If everyone had their own phone of course I could see it being quite useful (even a selling point of VOIP). Seems like you are still a bit stuck with old analog line = 1 phone thinking. With Asterisk you can easily make arrangements for two or three people sharing the same single phone to each have vm boxes of their own. I'd rather use X-Lite than MSN Messenger... The advantage that MSN Messenger has is that it's installed on every machine (whether you like it or not!) so it's a zero effort (and zero cost) fallback. So also everyone has a headset plus a soundcard, I assume? ;- Cheers, Philipp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Thursday 03 June 2004 09:30, Michael Welter wrote: I would not recommend software RAID. My experience is that, if there is a reboot resulting from an abnormal shutdown, Linux will recover (re-copy) the secondary drive. This process pegs the processor (90-100%) and takes a lng time. Of course, voice quality suffers when a processor is not available. I've *never* pegged a processor with software RAID1 during reconstruction. I/O sure, but that is easily controled through /proc. Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
BTW: And are you sure people wouldn't like to have voicemail? You'll need to make them want that... ;- I guess you can even argue that voicemail increases productivity. Since we share phones (at least the developers/non customer facing people) voicemail wouldn't work too well because we'd get each others' messages. The pen sticky pad method seems to be OK. If everyone had their own phone of course I could see it being quite useful (even a selling point of VOIP). Holy cow. Everyone doesn't have their own phone? What kind of tightwad are you working for? You are wasting FAR MORE money on lost productivity to worry about the cost of a phone. Your boss doesn't realize that, or do you work in a sweatshop environment? For most theoretical uses of conference you call a meeting - face to face communication can never really be replaced. Another HUGE productivity killer. I think your company has bigger issues than VOIP. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Philipp von Klitzing wrote: So also everyone has a headset plus a soundcard, I assume? ;- Well everyone has a soundcard... There's a load of headsets hanging around the office that get used at various times. Tony -- All your code belongs to Santa Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 104D/4F4B6917 2003-09-13 Fingerprint: 063C AFB4 3026 F724 0AA2 02B8 E547 470E 4F4B 6917 Phone(FWD): (0845 004 5566) 413300 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 05:27, Tony Hoyle wrote: Eric Wieling wrote: Why are you even looking at VoIP? Analog ports and phones are pretty cheap. They are not pretty, but they are cheap and all the smarts are in the PBX. Free calls to the US, basically, since the leased line is dirt cheap to run. ie. the purpose of the exercise is to save money not spend it. I don't define the parameters, just work with them... I happened to mention I was interested in VOIP at the wrong moment and got landed with the task. TBH for what they need they could save a bundle by routing the calls through a cheap analogue telco (eg. call18866) and forgetting VOIP for a few years until it becomes commodity hardware. I should have said Why are you looking at VoIP for the phones?. Our largest Asterisk installation (12 phones) uses analog phones and uses IAX2 to route calls that go to other offices. We have not found any VoIP phones with the features we want at a price point we are happy with. We have like the Zultys ZIP 2, it's a good extremely basic phone for use in waiting rooms, etc. No LCD, no switch port, etc. Costs about US$100. We like the new Uniden UIP200 as a slight step up from the ZIP 2. The UIP200 has an alphanum LCD, 8 programmable buttons, headset jack, speakerphone, two ethernet ports (switched). Costs $120. It looks like it will be a good phone for kitchen, NOC, etc use. We are still testing the UIP200. Neither of these phones have more than one call appearance and so would not be useful for us as a desk phone. -- Eric Wieling * BTEL Consulting * 504-899-1387 x2111 In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Nik Martin wrote: Holy cow. Everyone doesn't have their own phone? What kind of tightwad are you working for? You are wasting FAR MORE money on lost productivity to worry about the cost of a phone. Your boss doesn't realize that, or do you work in a sweatshop environment? Putting a senior developer on researching phones for a fortnight is probably losing them far more money than just paying someone to implement a working system... however it's different budgets, therefore doesn't show up on the balance sheet. OTOH we don't need a phone each. Mostly they just stand idle anyway. One between two or three people is enough. I think your company has bigger issues than VOIP. Yes but they're not my problem... (Losing 2.5 days a week on meetings then holding another meeting to discuss why we're behind on all the deadlines is either tragic or funny depending on how you look at it). All companies seem to suffer more or less from bad management - there's not much that those of us on the coalface can do about it. Tony -- All your code belongs to Santa Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 104D/4F4B6917 2003-09-13 Fingerprint: 063C AFB4 3026 F724 0AA2 02B8 E547 470E 4F4B 6917 Phone(FWD): (0845 004 5566) 413300 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:28:33 +0100, Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since we share phones (at least the developers/non customer facing people) voicemail wouldn't work too well because we'd get each others' messages. The pen sticky pad method seems to be OK. If everyone had their own phone of course I could see it being quite useful (even a selling point of VOIP). You could always give everyone their own extension # have several dial the same phone, and set up the voicemail to mail the message out as a wav file, to tidy their voicemail each person would just dial their voicemail number. -- -S ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Thursday 03 June 2004 11:42, Tony Hoyle wrote: Yes but they're not my problem... (Losing 2.5 days a week on meetings then holding another meeting to discuss why we're behind on all the deadlines is either tragic or funny depending on how you look at it). All companies seem to suffer more or less from bad management - there's not much that those of us on the coalface can do about it. Ahh so you have metameetings too, then. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
I know that way, but some person ask for me for first way to do transfers. srsergio -Mensaje original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de Stephen R. Besch Enviado el: miércoles, 02 de junio de 2004 15:37 Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone Sergio Serrano wrote: Hi all, I try to do next transfer: A person contact with me, I would like transfer to other person in next manner. I call to other person and when I say who wants talk with him I hangup phones an call is redirect automatically to other person: 1. call to me 2. Hold the call and call to other person. 3. I say Anyone want talk to you, OK, thanks, 4. I hangup and first person is directly redirect to second person? It is possible with asterisk and budgetone phones? Sergio, Not as far as I know, at least not exactly the way you have outlined it. Try this: 1. call comes to you 2. You hold the call and call other person. 3. You say Someone wants to talk to you, OK, thanks 3a. Other person then hangs up. 3b. You flash back to the original caller 3c. You tell them that you are transferring the call 3d. You transfer the call using the transfer feature on the phone 4. You hangup and first person is transferred to other person? Stephen R. Besch ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Stephen R. Besch wrote: Not as far as I know, at least not exactly the way you have outlined it. Try this: 1. call comes to you 2. You hold the call and call other person. 3. You say Someone wants to talk to you, OK, thanks 3a. Other person then hangs up. 3b. You flash back to the original caller 3c. You tell them that you are transferring the call 3d. You transfer the call using the transfer feature on the phone 4. You hangup and first person is transferred to other person? Ugh. So Asterisk doesn't handle transfer? Every company phone system I've ever used has not required 3a-3d. It looks like a real hack to do so. It anyone working on implementing this? Tony -- All your code belongs to Santa Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 104D/4F4B6917 2003-09-13 Fingerprint: 063C AFB4 3026 F724 0AA2 02B8 E547 470E 4F4B 6917 Phone(FWD): (0845 004 5566) 413300 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 09:44, Tony Hoyle wrote: Ugh. So Asterisk doesn't handle transfer? Every company phone system I've ever used has not required 3a-3d. It looks like a real hack to do so. It anyone working on implementing this? As far as I can tell it's a limitation of the phone, not of Asterisk. Most phones seem to implement the type of transfer you are wanting to do as a special form of a 3-way call. The phone you have doesn't support 3-way calls as documented on: http://www.grandstream.com/Product_Spec.pdf Other IP phones like the Cisco DO support 3-way calling and support supervised/consultative transfers (which is the term for what you want to do) -- Eric Wieling * BTEL Consulting * 504-899-1387 x2111 In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Tony Hoyle wrote: Stephen R. Besch wrote: Not as far as I know, at least not exactly the way you have outlined it. Try this: 1. call comes to you 2. You hold the call and call other person. 3. You say Someone wants to talk to you, OK, thanks 3a. Other person then hangs up. 3b. You flash back to the original caller 3c. You tell them that you are transferring the call 3d. You transfer the call using the transfer feature on the phone 4. You hangup and first person is transferred to other person? Ugh. So Asterisk doesn't handle transfer? Every company phone system I've ever used has not required 3a-3d. It looks like a real hack to do so. It anyone working on implementing this? Tony Asterisk handles transfer just fine. It's the P-O-S Grandstreams that don't. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
John Fraizer wrote: Asterisk handles transfer just fine. It's the P-O-S Grandstreams that don't. Even this analogue phone that's on my desk handles this... it's not normally a function of the phone, but of the PBX. How do companies that use asterisk handle incoming support calls?? I'm genuinely surprised anyone can survive without this feature. Tony -- All your code belongs to Santa Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 104D/4F4B6917 2003-09-13 Fingerprint: 063C AFB4 3026 F724 0AA2 02B8 E547 470E 4F4B 6917 Phone(FWD): (0845 004 5566) 413300 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
I have just to talk with Grandstream and they say to me that they ar working in 3-way conferencing for BT-100 series. I hope they have FW soon. One question more? How can I do parking call with Budgetone. Before # works fine, but Now it doesn't work. -Mensaje original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de John Fraizer Enviado el: miércoles, 02 de junio de 2004 19:29 Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Asunto: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone Tony Hoyle wrote: Stephen R. Besch wrote: Not as far as I know, at least not exactly the way you have outlined it. Try this: 1. call comes to you 2. You hold the call and call other person. 3. You say Someone wants to talk to you, OK, thanks 3a. Other person then hangs up. 3b. You flash back to the original caller 3c. You tell them that you are transferring the call 3d. You transfer the call using the transfer feature on the phone 4. You hangup and first person is transferred to other person? Ugh. So Asterisk doesn't handle transfer? Every company phone system I've ever used has not required 3a-3d. It looks like a real hack to do so. It anyone working on implementing this? Tony Asterisk handles transfer just fine. It's the P-O-S Grandstreams that don't. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 12:52, Tony Hoyle wrote: Even this analogue phone that's on my desk handles this... it's not normally a function of the phone, but of the PBX. How do companies that use asterisk handle incoming support calls?? I'm genuinely surprised anyone can survive without this feature. They don't use Grandstream phones or they work around the issue if they do use Grandstream phones. In the analog world everything is handled by the PBX. In the SIP world most things are handled by the phone. -- Eric Wieling * BTEL Consulting * 504-899-1387 x2111 In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Tony Hoyle wrote: John Fraizer wrote: Asterisk handles transfer just fine. It's the P-O-S Grandstreams that don't. Even this analogue phone that's on my desk handles this... it's not normally a function of the phone, but of the PBX. How do companies that use asterisk handle incoming support calls?? I'm genuinely surprised anyone can survive without this feature. Tony They don't use Piece-of-S%#^ Grandstream phones? Like I said, this is a problem with the PHONE and not with Asterisk. And your analog phone on your desk has to be able to TELL the PBX you want to transfer a call. The PBX doesn't just read it's mind. The same goes for VOIP phones. If it doesn't have a way to signal that you want to transfer the call, it can't do it. It's just that simple. So, in short: Buy a cheap phone, get cheap results. Oh, and if you like your Grandstream, don't ever handle, let alone USE a Cisco phone. You'll be ruined for life if you do. My grandstream is now a toy phone for my 1 y/o son. It never was much more than a toy to begin with. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 13:03, Sergio Serrano wrote: I have just to talk with Grandstream and they say to me that they ar working in 3-way conferencing for BT-100 series. I hope they have FW soon. One question more? How can I do parking call with Budgetone. Before # works fine, but Now it doesn't work. show application dial on the Asterisk console. Pay attention to the t and T options to enable # transfers. -- Eric Wieling * BTEL Consulting * 504-899-1387 x2111 In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Tony Hoyle wrote: Stephen R. Besch wrote: Not as far as I know, at least not exactly the way you have outlined it. Try this: 1. call comes to you 2. You hold the call and call other person. 3. You say Someone wants to talk to you, OK, thanks 3a. Other person then hangs up. 3b. You flash back to the original caller 3c. You tell them that you are transferring the call 3d. You transfer the call using the transfer feature on the phone 4. You hangup and first person is transferred to other person? Ugh. So Asterisk doesn't handle transfer? Every company phone system I've ever used has not required 3a-3d. It looks like a real hack to do so. It's called consultative transfer, as opposed to blind transfer. There are quite a few commercial softphones that claim to support it, but I'm not sure if any hardphones support it. It can be done through the Asterisk manager interface, too; WAMi can do it for sure. I'm sure of other manager apps that can also. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
John Fraizer wrote: your desk has to be able to TELL the PBX you want to transfer a call. No it doesn't there's a universal (?) standard for this - hit recall, dial new number. Heck it even works on PSTN lines if you pay for the right services. So, in short: Buy a cheap phone, get cheap results. Gransteams are *not* cheap. They're 2-3 times more expensive than analog phones. I'm investigating VOIP for my boss (who would rather train everyone on MSN Messenger but some people want a 'real' phone to talk with). If I were to spec anything more expensive than a Granstream it'd blow out the entire upgrade budget just on the phones! However I'm currently looking at the feasability of keeping the analog system and having some kind of analog/digital interface (if it can be done for less than £10/line then that's the answer). Tony -- Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 104D/4F4B6917 2003-09-13 Fingerprint: 063C AFB4 3026 F724 0AA2 02B8 E547 470E 4F4B 6917 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 10:21, Tony Hoyle wrote: John Fraizer wrote: your desk has to be able to TELL the PBX you want to transfer a call. No it doesn't there's a universal (?) standard for this - hit recall, dial new number. Heck it even works on PSTN lines if you pay for the right services. Right, so the *method* the analog phone uses to TELL the PBX to transfer the call/start a conference/MoH/whatever is by pressing recall, dialling new number. The smarts are in the PBX not the phone. Though the phone DOES need a way to tell the PBX what it wants to do. The phone is just the interface (like the keyboard on your PC), but the PBX (CPU) is what really does the work So, in short: Buy a cheap phone, get cheap results. Gransteams are *not* cheap. They're 2-3 times more expensive than analog phones. Well, actually they are. Sure, for $20 you can buy an analog phone, for $150 you can buy a grandstream, big difference. However, for a PBX class telephone, you are looking at prices $500 per handset You need to compare apples with apples Sure, a residential phone service from your telco includes some support for some of these things (if your telco is progressive enough, and you pay enough money) but it will never suffice as a replacement for your own asterisk PBX In any case, asterisk *CAN* use standard analog phones and support these features. In fact, EVERY feature is available when using analog phones, this is the easiest, best supported setup for asterisk. Of course, the quad fxs cards, or the T1 ports plus channel bank do increase the cost anyway I'm investigating VOIP for my boss (who would rather train everyone on MSN Messenger but some people want a 'real' phone to talk with). If I were to spec anything more expensive than a Granstream it'd blow out the entire upgrade budget just on the phones! However I'm currently looking at the feasability of keeping the analog system and having some kind of analog/digital interface (if it can be done for less than 10/line then that's the answer). If you have a problem with the grandstream product, which I think everyone acknowledges as being the cheapest hardware VoIP phone currently on the market (someone please correct me if I am wrong), then perhaps you should tell them that even though they have the cheapest product on the market, they should also have the most features. Somehow, I think while they will try to add these features over time, they will laugh at you Price, Features, Reliability. Pick any two... Adapted from: Price, Speed, Reliability. Pick any two (regarding internet connectivity) Finally, someone mentioned that Grandstream are adding this feature to their phones, which is nice. So perhaps you just need to be patient Or buy lots of their phones so they can pay for further development. Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Adam Goryachev wrote: The smarts are in the PBX not the phone. Though the phone DOES need a way to tell the PBX what it wants to do. The phone is just the interface (like the keyboard on your PC), but the PBX (CPU) is what really does the work That was the point I started with... Well, actually they are. Sure, for $20 you can buy an analog phone, for $150 you can buy a grandstream, big difference. However, for a PBX class telephone, you are looking at prices $500 per handset No idea what you mean by PBX class telephone but if anyone at our company spent $500 on a phone they'd probably be fired (unless it was the boss). Our desktop phones were done as a package deal from the building owner (who also runs the existing PBX) for almost nothing. If you have a problem with the grandstream product, which I think everyone acknowledges as being the cheapest hardware VoIP phone currently on the market (someone please correct me if I am wrong), then perhaps you should tell them that even though they have the cheapest product on the market, they should also have the most features. Somehow, I think while they will try to add these features over time, they will laugh at you All the company would want a phone to do is: 1. Make calls. 2. Receive calls. Just a straight replacement of the cheap phones that everyone gets with one that has a cat5 socket on the back, does DHCP and auto configures itself. Nothing flashy. It doesn't need an LCD display with the time on it, or a big flashing 'message' button. Just a phone - preferably for no more cost than an analogue phone. The rest of the PBX stuff isn't needed (except *00# for call pickup, which gets used a lot). If I can't spec out a system which is like that then the project will be shelved - which I suspect is precisely what my boss wants to happen (he's also the main advocate of the MSN Messenger solution). Corporate politics is like that... The advantage is I got an excuse to play with Asterisk/VOIP at home (have a Granstream and there's a Sipura coming [there was some talk of using sipuras for those people that need them rather than using a digital PBX]). I'll have to use them now I've spent so much time/money on them For myself I'd love to play with a Cisco but with the 7960 going for 600 a throw I'm not in the market for spending that much... Tony -- Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. Tony Hoyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Key ID: 104D/4F4B6917 2003-09-13 Fingerprint: 063C AFB4 3026 F724 0AA2 02B8 E547 470E 4F4B 6917 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 11:40, Tony Hoyle wrote: Adam Goryachev wrote: Well, actually they are. Sure, for $20 you can buy an analog phone, for $150 you can buy a grandstream, big difference. However, for a PBX class telephone, you are looking at prices $500 per handset No idea what you mean by PBX class telephone but if anyone at our company spent $500 on a phone they'd probably be fired (unless it was the boss). ie, new phones from NEC or other proprietary phone systems... Our desktop phones were done as a package deal from the building owner (who also runs the existing PBX) for almost nothing. Probably they make money in other ways, eg, in renting you the office space, or from re-billing your phone calls, etc... All the company would want a phone to do is: 1. Make calls. 2. Receive calls. Plus consultative transfer calls Plus speaker phone Plus conferencing Plus call parking Plus music on hold Plus ... I don't think you have a complete list of requirements there... Just a straight replacement of the cheap phones that everyone gets with one that has a cat5 socket on the back, does DHCP and auto configures itself. Nothing flashy. It doesn't need an LCD display with the time on it, or a big flashing 'message' button. Just a phone - preferably for no more cost than an analogue phone. Would be nice, but I suspect it will be another year or two before we get there. It is all about volume, and today, there isn't enough volume to cause the price to reduce by that much... (AFAIK)... The rest of the PBX stuff isn't needed (except *00# for call pickup, which gets used a lot). Try *8 instead on Asterisk systems If I can't spec out a system which is like that then the project will be shelved - which I suspect is precisely what my boss wants to happen (he's also the main advocate of the MSN Messenger solution). Corporate politics is like that... If *you* want to use asterisk, then I suggest you look at what Asterisk can provide that MSN Messenger (without asterisk) can't provide. Then if there is a business case for wanting those features, your job is 80% complete. If you really want to use a hard VoIP phone with asterisk instead of MSN Messenger with asterisk, then again, find the business case that the VoIP hardphone can provide the MSN doesn't. IMHO, I like to allow the other person to ponder the peculiarities and reliability of their MS Windows based PC. Whether software or hardware, I figure a VoIP phone should be significantly more reliable than a pc soft phone. What about when you try to open a large file/db/something while on a call (to look up the required information) and your call 'drops' out for a few seconds... etc... The advantage is I got an excuse to play with Asterisk/VOIP at home (have a Granstream and there's a Sipura coming [there was some talk of using sipuras for those people that need them rather than using a digital PBX]). I'll have to use them now I've spent so much time/money on them Congrats... For myself I'd love to play with a Cisco but with the 7960 going for 600 a throw I'm not in the market for spending that much... I am in the same boat. I'm sure one day though, I will splurge on a cisco, and will probably never again recommend anything else. However, until then, I will probably not be able to 'see' the difference... BTW: I don't see why MSN Messenger precludes asterisk... but either way, I suppose all this is kinda off-topic and just adding noise Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Tony Hoyle wrote: No idea what you mean by PBX class telephone but if anyone at our company spent $500 on a phone they'd probably be fired (unless it was the boss). Our desktop phones were done as a package deal from the building owner (who also runs the existing PBX) for almost nothing. All the company would want a phone to do is: 1. Make calls. 2. Receive calls. Just a straight replacement of the cheap phones that everyone gets with one that has a cat5 socket on the back, does DHCP and auto configures itself. Nothing flashy. It doesn't need an LCD display with the time on it, or a big flashing 'message' button. Just a phone - preferably for no more cost than an analogue phone. You really should be using analog phones with asterisk. You'll be a hero to your boss, because the phones wont cost a pile. All you need to add is a channel bank for the analog phones, and asterisk. There is a reason that cisco 7960's cost whet they do: features and performance. If you just need analog features, go with analog phones. Nik ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Oh and you need a fine digium card to interface with the channel bank. Nik Nik Martin wrote: Tony Hoyle wrote: No idea what you mean by PBX class telephone but if anyone at our company spent $500 on a phone they'd probably be fired (unless it was the boss). Our desktop phones were done as a package deal from the building owner (who also runs the existing PBX) for almost nothing. All the company would want a phone to do is: 1. Make calls. 2. Receive calls. Just a straight replacement of the cheap phones that everyone gets with one that has a cat5 socket on the back, does DHCP and auto configures itself. Nothing flashy. It doesn't need an LCD display with the time on it, or a big flashing 'message' button. Just a phone - preferably for no more cost than an analogue phone. You really should be using analog phones with asterisk. You'll be a hero to your boss, because the phones wont cost a pile. All you need to add is a channel bank for the analog phones, and asterisk. There is a reason that cisco 7960's cost whet they do: features and performance. If you just need analog features, go with analog phones. Nik ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Adam Goryachev wrote: Plus consultative transfer calls Well yes... pbx's job though (usually, although apparently not always...). Plus speaker phone No allowed to use them as they disturb people working. Plus conferencing We have a conferencing phone which is a huge triangular thing with lots of speakers on it. Can't see the point of putting that functionality on a desktop phone. Plus call parking Never completely understood what that was... We don't even have hold at the moment so nobody will miss it. We have a mute button for that purpose. Plus music on hold Don't have that now (no hold, see above). I don't think you have a complete list of requirements there... A 10 number memory would be nice (some of the better phones have a row of buttons down the side for frequently used numbers... ). Maybe there are some that know how to do other things (I don't know everything that goes on) but the phones don't natively support any of it, and AFAIK nobody actually knows how to use the PBX (!). Would be nice, but I suspect it will be another year or two before we get there. It is all about volume, and today, there isn't enough volume to cause the price to reduce by that much... (AFAIK)... I can't help feeling that VOIP will get there one day but isn't there yet. When I can walk down the high street and pick one up then it'll be definately 'there' but today virtually nobody's heard of it. Try *8 instead on Asterisk systems I'll modify the code if asterisk gets used. If *you* want to use asterisk, then I suggest you look at what Asterisk Me, I just like tinkering with new stuff. Asterisk is all that's available in my price range for installing at home :) One option is cheap PC/Asterisk connected in some way to the analogue system which helps if I know how to configure it etc. as I'll probably end up supporting it (our MCSE won't touch anything unless there's a control panel applet for it). OTOH if I say to go for a proprietary system I don't have to suport that.. decisions :) . instead of MSN Messenger with asterisk, then again, find the business case that the VoIP hardphone can provide the MSN doesn't. IMHO, I like Mostly I think it's about the 'physical' thing. I'm happy with messenger, but some won't use it as they don't like headphones, etc. They want to dial a number on a real phone. The business case is about getting the phone bill down... the bean counters are screaming that it's a significant drain on the business and there's pressure to do something about it (which gets pushed down to the little guys like me). to allow the other person to ponder the peculiarities and reliability of their MS Windows based PC. Whether software or hardware, I figure a VoIP phone should be significantly more reliable than a pc soft phone. What about when you try to open a large file/db/something while on a call (to look up the required information) and your call 'drops' out for a few seconds... etc... I don't think our version of Messenger (4.7.2009) will talk to asterisk. It has the 'accounts' screen but when you try to login it only has the one entry box for server not the 3 inc. username/password that other sites mention... as I can't enter the details the connection fails immediately. I haven't tried very hard though... kind of defeats the object connecting messenger to asterisk. BTW: I don't see why MSN Messenger precludes asterisk... but either way, I suppose all this is kinda off-topic and just adding noise AFAIK asterisk can't talk directly to the MSN servers, or have I missed that??? Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Nik Martin wrote: You really should be using analog phones with asterisk. You'll be a hero to your boss, because the phones wont cost a pile. All you need to Since we already have the phones, they won't cost anything :) add is a channel bank for the analog phones, and asterisk. There is a reason that cisco 7960's cost whet they do: features and performance. If you just need analog features, go with analog phones. Probably a good idea. Just need to work out how much the channel bank costs (~60 phones at the moment, probably best to allow for ~100). If I can spec out a few options that do the 'right stuff' then at least I did my bit... Tony ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
On Wednesday 02 June 2004 23:13, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: redundant power. Supermicro makes such a system, I think 1 proc, 512M ECC RAM and dual 9G drives was just under USD$1200. Oh yeah -- if you're going to do the TE405P with that supermicro system you're gonna have to saw up the card to get it to fit into a 3.3V PCI slot -- the damned motherboard has PCI-X and PCI3.3 but no PCI5, and the TE405P really is a universal card. :-) You can always use the TE400P but then you're screwed if you have to put it in a PC that's handy (think the motherboard frying) -- it's a 3.3V only card and 99% of the PCs out there are 5V PCI only. :-) Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Transfer with Budgetone
Adam Goryachev wrote: On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 11:40, Tony Hoyle wrote: Adam Goryachev wrote: Well, actually they are. Sure, for $20 you can buy an analog phone, for $150 you can buy a grandstream, big difference. However, for a PBX class telephone, you are looking at prices $500 per handset No idea what you mean by PBX class telephone but if anyone at our company spent $500 on a phone they'd probably be fired (unless it was the boss). ie, new phones from NEC or other proprietary phone systems... Where in the world are you buying your phones? New phones for any PBX (Nortel, Lucent, Toshiba, etc.) range from $100 to $350 for all but the most esoteric models. -brian ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
