Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
Barry D. Hassler wrote: > Well, Teliax says they "have no access to the PSTN's database", but > I'm suggesting they check out TargusInfo as mentioned above. One of > their suggestions, is to contact the local ILEC to get the number > published in their white pages. Will that accomplish the same thing (I > doubt it). As I understand it, if they got a document signed by their origination provider granting them authorization to do CNAM hosting on their own numbers, they could then hire someone such as Verisign to host their CNAM records in the so-called "PSTN database." They'd even profit from this assuming they have enough subscribers. There are probably several reasons for why they don't do this, possibly starting with administrative overhead and/or their provider is not willing to relinquish control of the records. If someone has experience with this, feel free to correct me. However, this is my understanding from my previous experience with looking up Caller Name information via CNAM/LIDB/SS7. Regards, -- Trevor Peirce Digital Conceptions Canada http://www.digitalcon.ca 1-888-606-3030 / 250 483-0386 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
Well, Teliax says they "have no access to the PSTN's database", but I'm suggesting they check out TargusInfo as mentioned above. One of their suggestions, is to contact the local ILEC to get the number published in their white pages. Will that accomplish the same thing (I doubt it). On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Danny Nicholas wrote: > CALLERID(name) is a TELCO specific field. In the long run, you will be > best served using your own lookup of a database using CALLERID(num), since > CID(name) is unreliable and in some cases costly. IMO, you would be well > served with an app (AGI?) that recorded valid names into the database and > let you insert the names where they aren’t. > > > -- > > *From:* asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto: > asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] *On Behalf Of *Barry D. Hassler > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:41 PM > *To:* Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > *Subject:* [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? > > > > Hi Folks, having an issue with outbound calls through a VOIP provider. > Calls get sent out with the CallerID(number), but where does callerID(name) > come from? Apparently not from provider, as we are seeing different > (sometime missing) names on inbound calls, different than what we have > configured. Apparently this comes from some telco database somewhere? > Numbers were ported from a wired-telco. > > > > -- > Barry D. Hassler > President, HCST > > http://www.hcst.net/ > 937-427-9000 > > ___ > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > -- Barry D. Hassler President, HCST http://www.hcst.net/ 937-427-9000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
CALLERID(name) is a TELCO specific field. In the long run, you will be best served using your own lookup of a database using CALLERID(num), since CID(name) is unreliable and in some cases costly. IMO, you would be well served with an app (AGI?) that recorded valid names into the database and let you insert the names where they aren't. _ From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Barry D. Hassler Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:41 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? Hi Folks, having an issue with outbound calls through a VOIP provider. Calls get sent out with the CallerID(number), but where does callerID(name) come from? Apparently not from provider, as we are seeing different (sometime missing) names on inbound calls, different than what we have configured. Apparently this comes from some telco database somewhere? Numbers were ported from a wired-telco. -- Barry D. Hassler President, HCST http://www.hcst.net/ 937-427-9000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
On 7/8/09, Steve Totaro wrote: > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 2:14 AM, Olivier wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Reading this thread, is this correct to say CallerName is widely used in > the > > US ? > > > > Here in France, this service is optional but I don't think many companies > > are subscribing to it and I'm not aware of any non-Telco CNAM providers. > > I would curious to know how the situation is elsewhere. > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Whether true or not, I was told that nearly 80% of people in the US > have caller ID. I would say that number is much higher for business, > especially on PRI circuits. > > I think the two big motivators there were packaging of services, for X > amount extra, you get caller ID, call waiting, voicemail on at the > telco, etc > > The other factor was the proliferation of telemarketing. Before the > DNC, a white pages listed home phone could ring a dozen times a day by > people selling "stuff". > > > -- > > Thanks, > Steve Totaro In Canada, their telephone network is set up to allow for dynamic CallerIDname on PRIs just like how CallerIDnumber works here in the USA. We didn't believe it at first until we tried it, but they seem to be the only country we've worked in, out of a few dozen countries, that allows dynamic CallerIDname defined on a per-call basis. MATT--- ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 2:14 AM, Olivier wrote: > Hi, > > Reading this thread, is this correct to say CallerName is widely used in the > US ? > > Here in France, this service is optional but I don't think many companies > are subscribing to it and I'm not aware of any non-Telco CNAM providers. > I would curious to know how the situation is elsewhere. > > Regards > > Whether true or not, I was told that nearly 80% of people in the US have caller ID. I would say that number is much higher for business, especially on PRI circuits. I think the two big motivators there were packaging of services, for X amount extra, you get caller ID, call waiting, voicemail on at the telco, etc The other factor was the proliferation of telemarketing. Before the DNC, a white pages listed home phone could ring a dozen times a day by people selling "stuff". -- Thanks, Steve Totaro +18887771888 (Toll Free) +12409381212 (Cell) +12024369784 (Skype) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
Hi, Reading this thread, is this correct to say CallerName is widely used in the US ? Here in France, this service is optional but I don't think many companies are subscribing to it and I'm not aware of any non-Telco CNAM providers. I would curious to know how the situation is elsewhere. Regards ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
Barry D. Hassler wrote: > So how does Teliax (for instance) go about getting their client's > information into these directories? Do they establish a relationship > with someone like TargusInfo (described above)? > > How do other ITSP's provide this service, or do they ignore it as well? Yes, either they will work with Targus, Versign, etc who do commercial CNAM hosting, or they work with their CLEC partner who would presumably already have such an agreement in place. It's my understanding that with an LOA from your CLEC or ILEC (kind of the opposite of the LOA you need to port a number), you can have your own CNAM records hosting with one of the companies listed above and make money. We're talking a fraction of a cent per call so unless you have many DIDs and many more calls, it's not usually worthwhile. Most smaller ITSPs either don't know how this or don't have the volume to make it feasible. In Canada, we just include the name in the SS7 signaling on a per-call basis and bypass this whole mess :) Best regards, -- Trevor Peirce Digital Conceptions Canada http://www.digitalcon.ca 1-888-606-3030 / 250 483-0386 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
So how does Teliax (for instance) go about getting their client's information into these directories? Do they establish a relationship with someone like TargusInfo (described above)? How do other ITSP's provide this service, or do they ignore it as well? On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:49 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > How does that work? > > -Original Message- > From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com > [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:18 PM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? > > > > I get paid every time I call someone that subscribes to caller ID. > > -- > Thanks, > Steve Totaro > +18887771888 (Toll Free) > +12409381212 (Cell) > +12024369784 (Skype) > > ___ > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > > > ___ > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > -- Barry D. Hassler President, HCST http://www.hcst.net/ 937-427-9000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
How does that work? -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Totaro Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:18 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? I get paid every time I call someone that subscribes to caller ID. -- Thanks, Steve Totaro +18887771888 (Toll Free) +12409381212 (Cell) +12024369784 (Skype) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
For the CNAM vendors who pride themselves on completeness/coverage, don't you think that they have some interest in getting data from the likes of Teliax? Maybe they wouldn't pay for it, but ITSPs have to realize that to retain certain customers that they have to their customers numbers disseminated. But I guess if they can charge extra for what used to be table stakes, so be it. Frank -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Karl Fife Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:04 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? >>My primary issue is for calls that are placed FROM my client's PBX, via >>VOIP provider (Teliax). The recipients of those calls are the ones that >>are not getting the proper CNAM information as the call comes in. I neglected to go into detail on this point at the end of my last post because I thought it was out of scope. But now that you ask... While I am not an expert in the specific architecture of CNAM database, I do know that (to Frank's point) it is not at all a database in the 'MySQL' or 'Oracle' sense of the word. It's a database more analagous to the DNS where data can be located in many places (cached) but there is a single source considered authoritative that ultimately propogates out to cache. This authoritative source is the Telco that provides your DID number--after all, they the only ones with a billing relationship to validate the name information. So historically, *normally* your Telco is the authoritative source of the CNAM data that populates the 'screens' of the people you call, and *normally* the Telco of the calling party is ultimately compensated by the Telco of the called party for providing the CNAM data, but this model has broken down in the world if IP telephohy. Your ITSP (Teliax) is one of "them-thar new-fangled ITSPs" and the big boys have exactly ZERO interest in compensating them for CNAM dips. Meanwhile they are excluded from the holy brotherhood of 'real' CNAM. This is why your name is not populated in the CNAM database. Teliax is not one of the CNAM insiders who exchange name data and compensate each other for said data. That's also why it would never make sense to ask your CNAM lookup serive provider to make corrections to errant CNAM data. It just doesn't work that way. It used to be that you could work around this problem by using LNP to port your number temporarily to an ILEC . Your TN would get a CNAM record which would persist as an orphan for years. Recently this has changed, and NOW when you port your TN away from the losing LEC, they purge your CNAM record. :-( Recently there are some good solutions to this problem. One is to ask your ITSP if they can put your number in the LIDB for a fee or alternatively you can just buy a "white pages" entry (also from your ITSP) which accomplishes the same thing. I've seen this for $5 per month, and the BONUS you get a white pages entry (which you may or may not want). I hope this helps. -Karl http://www.hcst.net/ 937-427-9000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Frank Bulk wrote: > Intersting. Vitelity is charging for something that they might already be > getting paid for. Of course, updating a name for a number takes time, and > so that's probably why they can justify charging the customer something. > Most times when you sign up you specify how you want the directory listing > to look, and that's what is sold/delivered to CNAM vendors and aggregators. > > I'm not sure what Vitelity means by "a national database" and "this > database". As I discussed before, a telephony provider can choose pretty > well any CNAM vendor they want. Beyond the ones that were mentioned by > someone else in an e-mail, there's also VeriSign, Neustar, and Syniverse. > It's an oversimplification to tell the customer that it's *a* database -- > Vitelity may sell their data to just one CNAM vendor/aggregator, but that > doesn't mean every CNAM vendor's database has now been updated. > > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: John A. Sullivan III [mailto:jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com] > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:23 PM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Cc: frnk...@iname.com > Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? > > On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 16:54 -0400, Barry D. Hassler wrote: >> This is all excellent information. My primary issue is for calls that >> are placed FROM my client's PBX, via VOIP provider (Teliax). The >> recipients of those calls are the ones that are not getting the proper >> CNAM information as the call comes in. >> >> We just recently ported the client's POTS lines to VOIP, and with the >> exception of this issue, all is working well. But, my client is really >> unhappy that their callerID NAME isn't showing up. >> > > I was very curious about this myself. We successfully set the CallerID > number by creating different contexts for our various offices and using > a Set(CALLERID(num)=x) call. But we could not set the name so I > asked our new carrier (Vitelity - with whom we have been quite pleased > thus far). This is their response to us: > > We can have the name set for this number, however there is a one time > passthrough charge of $xx per number for the update. Outbound caller ID > is updated into a national database called LIDB (line information > database), it is the final terminating provider that is responsible for > querying this database and delivering it to their customers. >> > -- > John A. Sullivan III > Open Source Development Corporation > +1 207-985-7880 > jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com I get paid every time I call someone that subscribes to caller ID. -- Thanks, Steve Totaro +18887771888 (Toll Free) +12409381212 (Cell) +12024369784 (Skype) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
>>My primary issue is for calls that are placed FROM my client's PBX, via >>VOIP provider (Teliax). The recipients of those calls are the ones that >>are not getting the proper CNAM information as the call comes in. I neglected to go into detail on this point at the end of my last post because I thought it was out of scope. But now that you ask... While I am not an expert in the specific architecture of CNAM database, I do know that (to Frank's point) it is not at all a database in the 'MySQL' or 'Oracle' sense of the word. It's a database more analagous to the DNS where data can be located in many places (cached) but there is a single source considered authoritative that ultimately propogates out to cache. This authoritative source is the Telco that provides your DID number--after all, they the only ones with a billing relationship to validate the name information. So historically, *normally* your Telco is the authoritative source of the CNAM data that populates the 'screens' of the people you call, and *normally* the Telco of the calling party is ultimately compensated by the Telco of the called party for providing the CNAM data, but this model has broken down in the world if IP telephohy. Your ITSP (Teliax) is one of "them-thar new-fangled ITSPs" and the big boys have exactly ZERO interest in compensating them for CNAM dips. Meanwhile they are excluded from the holy brotherhood of 'real' CNAM. This is why your name is not populated in the CNAM database. Teliax is not one of the CNAM insiders who exchange name data and compensate each other for said data. That's also why it would never make sense to ask your CNAM lookup serive provider to make corrections to errant CNAM data. It just doesn't work that way. It used to be that you could work around this problem by using LNP to port your number temporarily to an ILEC . Your TN would get a CNAM record which would persist as an orphan for years. Recently this has changed, and NOW when you port your TN away from the losing LEC, they purge your CNAM record. :-( Recently there are some good solutions to this problem. One is to ask your ITSP if they can put your number in the LIDB for a fee or alternatively you can just buy a "white pages" entry (also from your ITSP) which accomplishes the same thing. I've seen this for $5 per month, and the BONUS you get a white pages entry (which you may or may not want). I hope this helps. -Karl http://www.hcst.net/ 937-427-9000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
Intersting. Vitelity is charging for something that they might already be getting paid for. Of course, updating a name for a number takes time, and so that's probably why they can justify charging the customer something. Most times when you sign up you specify how you want the directory listing to look, and that's what is sold/delivered to CNAM vendors and aggregators. I'm not sure what Vitelity means by "a national database" and "this database". As I discussed before, a telephony provider can choose pretty well any CNAM vendor they want. Beyond the ones that were mentioned by someone else in an e-mail, there's also VeriSign, Neustar, and Syniverse. It's an oversimplification to tell the customer that it's *a* database -- Vitelity may sell their data to just one CNAM vendor/aggregator, but that doesn't mean every CNAM vendor's database has now been updated. Frank -Original Message- From: John A. Sullivan III [mailto:jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:23 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Cc: frnk...@iname.com Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 16:54 -0400, Barry D. Hassler wrote: > This is all excellent information. My primary issue is for calls that > are placed FROM my client's PBX, via VOIP provider (Teliax). The > recipients of those calls are the ones that are not getting the proper > CNAM information as the call comes in. > > We just recently ported the client's POTS lines to VOIP, and with the > exception of this issue, all is working well. But, my client is really > unhappy that their callerID NAME isn't showing up. > I was very curious about this myself. We successfully set the CallerID number by creating different contexts for our various offices and using a Set(CALLERID(num)=x) call. But we could not set the name so I asked our new carrier (Vitelity - with whom we have been quite pleased thus far). This is their response to us: We can have the name set for this number, however there is a one time passthrough charge of $xx per number for the update. Outbound caller ID is updated into a national database called LIDB (line information database), it is the final terminating provider that is responsible for querying this database and delivering it to their customers. > -- John A. Sullivan III Open Source Development Corporation +1 207-985-7880 jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com http://www.spiritualoutreach.com Making Christianity intelligible to secular society ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
If the calling number shows up correctly for the called party (an obvious
first step), the called party will need to get in contact with their
telephony provider/CNAM vendor to get the calling name fixed. Its possible
that because your client (the calling party) ported their number, the called
partys CNAM source reflects no information because the line was
disconnected. The called partys CNAM source is obviously not getting
directory listing directly or indirectly from Teliax.
It may be helpful to speak to Teliax and find out where they sell/provide
their directory listings. Somehow the called partys CNAM source needs to
get that information from Teliax, either directly, or more likely, via one
or more intermediate parties that aggregates the data. TARGUSinfo
(http://targusinfo.com/solutions/identification/caller_name/default.aspx),
for example, collects from over 90 sources
(http://targusinfo.com/solutions/identification/caller_name/faq/).
Ive heard that Vonage Canada does not sell/provide their directory
listings, so youll never obtain a name-like calling number unless your CNAM
provider collects the data from other sources, and they do (e.g. department
store credit cards applications).
Frank
From: Barry D. Hassler [mailto:barry.hass...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:54 PM
To: frnk...@iname.com; Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial
Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
This is all excellent information. My primary issue is for calls that are
placed FROM my client's PBX, via VOIP provider (Teliax). The recipients of
those calls are the ones that are not getting the proper CNAM information as
the call comes in.
We just recently ported the client's POTS lines to VOIP, and with the
exception of this issue, all is working well. But, my client is really
unhappy that their callerID NAME isn't showing up.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
There's a bit of oversimplification going on here -- it's not "a ...
database". Different CNAM providers have different databases which are
populated from many sources. Most of the data probably matches, but not all
of it.
If the Calling Name is incorrect, the person who received the call will have
to check with their telephony provider (or, if they do their own CNAM
lookups, with their CNAM provider) to get the name for the calling party
fixed up (this presumes that the calling party has already verified with
their own telephony provider that their name is correctly listed). But
that's not all of it, either, because the next time the CNAM provider
refreshes their records, the local fix could be overridden (I'm not sure if
any CNAM providers have the capability to ignore old/bad data for a record,
but perhaps so). Ideally the CNAM provider shares with the calling party
which database the CNAM provider is using for the calling party, so that the
calling party can try to get it fixed directly with the database provider
(if that's even possible).
In short, it's a mess.
But because accuracy rates are one of the elements that CNAM providers
compete on, these usually do get cleaned up.
Frank
-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Karl Fife
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:27 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
The Caller ID name, "CNAM" is a separate database owned and maintained
"cooperatively" by the bell operating companies.
Your ITSP is not doing these CNAM lookups for you because they would have to
pay the BOC's for the 'dips' into the CNAM database. CNAM is a little cash
cow that the BOC's are quick to protect. As such CNAM dips may not be
cached or re-sold as a term service that you must agree to with your CNAM
provider.
As far as solving your CNAM problem, you would need to either choose an ITSP
that will provide you with CNAM data on a per-call basis, OR you need to do
CNAM dips yourself as I (and many others) do. Beware that some ITSP's
provide "best-effort" name data culled from various sources. It's not
always terrible but it's not 'coke' it's more like 'dollar store' cola. :-)
As a call comes in to your dial plan you can populate the CALLERID(name)
channel variable using the CURL function in your dialplan as so:
exten =>
s,n,Set(CALLERID(name)=${CURL(http://cnam1.edicentral.net/getcnam?q=C
<http://cnam1.edicentral.net/getcnam?q=C&f=S&dn> &f=S&dn
=${CALLERID(num)})})
AND let's not forget the completely separate issue with getting your
ITSP-provisioned number ENTERED INTO the CNAM database in the first place,
so people see "Karl Fife" rather than the &quo
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
On Tue, 2009-07-07 at 16:54 -0400, Barry D. Hassler wrote: > This is all excellent information. My primary issue is for calls that > are placed FROM my client's PBX, via VOIP provider (Teliax). The > recipients of those calls are the ones that are not getting the proper > CNAM information as the call comes in. > > We just recently ported the client's POTS lines to VOIP, and with the > exception of this issue, all is working well. But, my client is really > unhappy that their callerID NAME isn't showing up. > I was very curious about this myself. We successfully set the CallerID number by creating different contexts for our various offices and using a Set(CALLERID(num)=x) call. But we could not set the name so I asked our new carrier (Vitelity - with whom we have been quite pleased thus far). This is their response to us: We can have the name set for this number, however there is a one time passthrough charge of $xx per number for the update. Outbound caller ID is updated into a national database called LIDB (line information database), it is the final terminating provider that is responsible for querying this database and delivering it to their customers. > -- John A. Sullivan III Open Source Development Corporation +1 207-985-7880 jsulli...@opensourcedevel.com http://www.spiritualoutreach.com Making Christianity intelligible to secular society ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
This is all excellent information. My primary issue is for calls that are
placed FROM my client's PBX, via VOIP provider (Teliax). The recipients of
those calls are the ones that are not getting the proper CNAM information as
the call comes in.
We just recently ported the client's POTS lines to VOIP, and with the
exception of this issue, all is working well. But, my client is really
unhappy that their callerID NAME isn't showing up.
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Frank Bulk wrote:
> There's a bit of oversimplification going on here -- it's not "a ...
> database". Different CNAM providers have different databases which are
> populated from many sources. Most of the data probably matches, but not
> all
> of it.
>
> If the Calling Name is incorrect, the person who received the call will
> have
> to check with their telephony provider (or, if they do their own CNAM
> lookups, with their CNAM provider) to get the name for the calling party
> fixed up (this presumes that the calling party has already verified with
> their own telephony provider that their name is correctly listed). But
> that's not all of it, either, because the next time the CNAM provider
> refreshes their records, the local fix could be overridden (I'm not sure if
> any CNAM providers have the capability to ignore old/bad data for a record,
> but perhaps so). Ideally the CNAM provider shares with the calling party
> which database the CNAM provider is using for the calling party, so that
> the
> calling party can try to get it fixed directly with the database provider
> (if that's even possible).
>
> In short, it's a mess.
>
> But because accuracy rates are one of the elements that CNAM providers
> compete on, these usually do get cleaned up.
>
> Frank
>
> -Original Message-
> From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
> [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Karl Fife
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:27 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
>
> The Caller ID name, "CNAM" is a separate database owned and maintained
> "cooperatively" by the bell operating companies.
>
> Your ITSP is not doing these CNAM lookups for you because they would have
> to
>
> pay the BOC's for the 'dips' into the CNAM database. CNAM is a little cash
> cow that the BOC's are quick to protect. As such CNAM dips may not be
> cached or re-sold as a term service that you must agree to with your CNAM
> provider.
>
> As far as solving your CNAM problem, you would need to either choose an
> ITSP
>
> that will provide you with CNAM data on a per-call basis, OR you need to do
> CNAM dips yourself as I (and many others) do. Beware that some ITSP's
> provide "best-effort" name data culled from various sources. It's not
> always terrible but it's not 'coke' it's more like 'dollar store' cola. :-)
>
> As a call comes in to your dial plan you can populate the CALLERID(name)
> channel variable using the CURL function in your dialplan as so:
> exten =>
> s,n,Set(CALLERID(name)=${CURL(
> http://cnam1.edicentral.net/getcnam?q=C&f=S&dn
> =${CALLERID(num)})})
>
> AND let's not forget the completely separate issue with getting your
> ITSP-provisioned number ENTERED INTO the CNAM database in the first place,
> so people see "Karl Fife" rather than the "city, state" or worse, some
> string of arcane LATA information. There's a solution to this problem too
> but I digress...
>
> I've posted my personal notes below from about 18 months ago when I was
> searchign for CNAM providers:
>
> -Karl
>
> CNAM PROVIDRES:
>
> Metrostat.com
> about 1.5¢ per dip,
> $30 minimum deposit, refundable
> CNAM service not well documented on web site
> A registerd CLEC
>
> Got Name - Out of business?
> 1.5¢ per dip. no minimums, no setup
>
> ClearReach Networks
> .67¢ per dip $200 monthly minimum, resell ok, significant setup fees
>
> 411xml.com
> more expensive than ClearReach.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Barry D. Hassler
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:40 PM
> Subject: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
>
> Hi Folks, having an issue with outbound calls through a VOIP provider.
> Calls
>
> get sent out with the CallerID(number), but where does callerID(name) come
> from? Apparently not from provider, as we are seeing different (sometime
> missing) names on inbound calls, dif
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
There's a bit of oversimplification going on here -- it's not "a ...
database". Different CNAM providers have different databases which are
populated from many sources. Most of the data probably matches, but not all
of it.
If the Calling Name is incorrect, the person who received the call will have
to check with their telephony provider (or, if they do their own CNAM
lookups, with their CNAM provider) to get the name for the calling party
fixed up (this presumes that the calling party has already verified with
their own telephony provider that their name is correctly listed). But
that's not all of it, either, because the next time the CNAM provider
refreshes their records, the local fix could be overridden (I'm not sure if
any CNAM providers have the capability to ignore old/bad data for a record,
but perhaps so). Ideally the CNAM provider shares with the calling party
which database the CNAM provider is using for the calling party, so that the
calling party can try to get it fixed directly with the database provider
(if that's even possible).
In short, it's a mess.
But because accuracy rates are one of the elements that CNAM providers
compete on, these usually do get cleaned up.
Frank
-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Karl Fife
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:27 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
The Caller ID name, "CNAM" is a separate database owned and maintained
"cooperatively" by the bell operating companies.
Your ITSP is not doing these CNAM lookups for you because they would have to
pay the BOC's for the 'dips' into the CNAM database. CNAM is a little cash
cow that the BOC's are quick to protect. As such CNAM dips may not be
cached or re-sold as a term service that you must agree to with your CNAM
provider.
As far as solving your CNAM problem, you would need to either choose an ITSP
that will provide you with CNAM data on a per-call basis, OR you need to do
CNAM dips yourself as I (and many others) do. Beware that some ITSP's
provide "best-effort" name data culled from various sources. It's not
always terrible but it's not 'coke' it's more like 'dollar store' cola. :-)
As a call comes in to your dial plan you can populate the CALLERID(name)
channel variable using the CURL function in your dialplan as so:
exten =>
s,n,Set(CALLERID(name)=${CURL(http://cnam1.edicentral.net/getcnam?q=C&f=S&dn
=${CALLERID(num)})})
AND let's not forget the completely separate issue with getting your
ITSP-provisioned number ENTERED INTO the CNAM database in the first place,
so people see "Karl Fife" rather than the "city, state" or worse, some
string of arcane LATA information. There's a solution to this problem too
but I digress...
I've posted my personal notes below from about 18 months ago when I was
searchign for CNAM providers:
-Karl
CNAM PROVIDRES:
Metrostat.com
about 1.5¢ per dip,
$30 minimum deposit, refundable
CNAM service not well documented on web site
A registerd CLEC
Got Name - Out of business?
1.5¢ per dip. no minimums, no setup
ClearReach Networks
.67¢ per dip $200 monthly minimum, resell ok, significant setup fees
411xml.com
more expensive than ClearReach.
- Original Message -
From: Barry D. Hassler
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
Hi Folks, having an issue with outbound calls through a VOIP provider. Calls
get sent out with the CallerID(number), but where does callerID(name) come
from? Apparently not from provider, as we are seeing different (sometime
missing) names on inbound calls, different than what we have configured.
Apparently this comes from some telco database somewhere? Numbers were
ported from a wired-telco.
--
Barry D. Hassler
President, HCST
http://www.hcst.net/
937-427-9000
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Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
p.s. Once you've got a reliable CNAM source, you can save a few bucks per month on all of your POTS lines & PRI spans by opting out of the carrier-provided CNAM. IIRC, We save something like $40 per month per span on our PRI's & $3 per month per line by opting out of CNAM. When a call comes in we populate it ourselves using a quick HTTP GET. -Karl - Original Message - From: Barry D. Hassler To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:40 PM Subject: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from? Hi Folks, having an issue with outbound calls through a VOIP provider. Calls get sent out with the CallerID(number), but where does callerID(name) come from? Apparently not from provider, as we are seeing different (sometime missing) names on inbound calls, different than what we have configured. Apparently this comes from some telco database somewhere? Numbers were ported from a wired-telco. -- Barry D. Hassler President, HCST http://www.hcst.net/ 937-427-9000 -- ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
The Caller ID name, "CNAM" is a separate database owned and maintained
"cooperatively" by the bell operating companies.
Your ITSP is not doing these CNAM lookups for you because they would have to
pay the BOC's for the 'dips' into the CNAM database. CNAM is a little cash
cow that the BOC's are quick to protect. As such CNAM dips may not be
cached or re-sold as a term service that you must agree to with your CNAM
provider.
As far as solving your CNAM problem, you would need to either choose an ITSP
that will provide you with CNAM data on a per-call basis, OR you need to do
CNAM dips yourself as I (and many others) do. Beware that some ITSP's
provide "best-effort" name data culled from various sources. It's not
always terrible but it's not 'coke' it's more like 'dollar store' cola. :-)
As a call comes in to your dial plan you can populate the CALLERID(name)
channel variable using the CURL function in your dialplan as so:
exten =>
s,n,Set(CALLERID(name)=${CURL(http://cnam1.edicentral.net/getcnam?q=C&f=S&dn=${CALLERID(num)})})
AND let's not forget the completely separate issue with getting your
ITSP-provisioned number ENTERED INTO the CNAM database in the first place,
so people see "Karl Fife" rather than the "city, state" or worse, some
string of arcane LATA information. There's a solution to this problem too
but I digress...
I've posted my personal notes below from about 18 months ago when I was
searchign for CNAM providers:
-Karl
CNAM PROVIDRES:
Metrostat.com
about 1.5¢ per dip,
$30 minimum deposit, refundable
CNAM service not well documented on web site
A registerd CLEC
Got Name - Out of business?
1.5¢ per dip. no minimums, no setup
ClearReach Networks
.67¢ per dip $200 monthly minimum, resell ok, significant setup fees
411xml.com
more expensive than ClearReach.
- Original Message -
From: Barry D. Hassler
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
Hi Folks, having an issue with outbound calls through a VOIP provider. Calls
get sent out with the CallerID(number), but where does callerID(name) come
from? Apparently not from provider, as we are seeing different (sometime
missing) names on inbound calls, different than what we have configured.
Apparently this comes from some telco database somewhere? Numbers were
ported from a wired-telco.
--
Barry D. Hassler
President, HCST
http://www.hcst.net/
937-427-9000
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Re: [asterisk-users] Caller ID (name) - where does it come from?
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Barry D. Hassler wrote: > Hi Folks, having an issue with outbound calls through a VOIP provider. Calls > get sent out with the CallerID(number), but where does callerID(name) come > from? Apparently not from provider, as we are seeing different (sometime > missing) names on inbound calls, different than what we have configured. > Apparently this comes from some telco database somewhere? Numbers were > ported from a wired-telco. > > > > -- > Barry D. Hassler > President, HCST > > http://www.hcst.net/ > 937-427-9000 > It is in a database or CNAM dip. You just need to contact your provider and tell them to have it changed. What you send is moot on the PSTN. Also call 911 and make sure they have the correct address and information on file. I do it all the time for liability reasons, just make sure you tell them right off that bat that there is no emergency and you want to verify what they have in their database is correct. I have never had a problem doing this and try to do it in front of the big boss to show them it is correct and that I am thorough and looking out for them. -- Thanks, Steve Totaro +18887771888 (Toll Free) +12409381212 (Cell) +12024369784 (Skype) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
