Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I can handwrite 20 words or so per minute with the slate and stylus. the only difference is this.dot 1 is in the top right of the celldot 2, middle rightdot 3, lower rightdot 4, top leftdot 5, middle leftdot 6, bottom left.you start on the right hand side and finnish the line on the left. if you remember this you can write nice and fast with the slate and stylus fast enough to even take notes in college classes. and if you write on thermoform its nice and quiet. almost silent so handwriting will hardly be noticeable when taking notes. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=335438#p335438 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I don't know how to describe the slate and stylus without it sounding horrible. And, much like handwriting, the experience varies. I suppose the cheeky answer is "it's like being Vanna White, except with 6 panels per letter instead of one, and also you're poking them open with a tiny hole-poking tool."It also varies with the type / sharpness of the stylus, the type of slate, the surface you're using, practice, technique, yada yada. Most people seem to prefer saddleback styluses (styli?), but I can hardly do anything with those and prefer the one's shaped kinda like a driver (as in the golf club). I'd say the biggest disadvantage compared to the typewriter is the inability to review and edit the line you're on until you're done with it.I've heard people complain about people complaining about having to write right-to-left, but I don't remember ever hearing someone actually complain about it. It's easier th an it sounds, but most people hate it all the same. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334735#p334735 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I've never tried a Slate and Stylus. What is it like? I've only tried the Perkins machine, the electronic Mount Battin Braille Writer and Braille note takers like the BrailleNote and BrailleSense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334724#p334724 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy The thing about Grade 3 is that it's so rarely used, there isn't much of a standard. There has to be something of one—I've seen a standardized test for it—but for all intents and purposes, it's like any other shorthand. Personally, if I really need to save space (and I've made lots of half-page books and note-cards, so it isn't so uncommon), I drop spaces and unnecessary 56s (ex, in recipes, 1tbs makes as much sense with the letter sign as without), mix and match whichever code saves the most space, right names in Japanese (and drop the voice marks if I'm really short on space), and mostly try to let context sort out ambiguity. In spite of how desperately I wanted there to be a contraction for car when I was 6 (this only makes sense if I didn't know ar yet, and I don't remember if that was the case...), I haven't really used any unclaimed dot 5 or 456 or what have you. ... I'm not sure why. That would totally be in character. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334569#p334569 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy regarding braille music, I needed it in high school. I was in the marching band and had to learn certain pieces of music and memorise them. I could not have done it without braille music. regarding the new ueb braille. the free send2braille translator does not force ueb on you. the new orbit20 will not force ueb on you. its default code for menus files and messages is 8 dot computer braille. and in send2braille, you can change its braille table and have everything translated in the old style braille you like the most. That's another thing I liked about orbit20 when I tested it. it does not force any kind of braille code on you. You use and read and write the digital braille however and in whatever way works best for you as an individual user. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334550#p334550 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy grade3? I guess when the lions club gets me the orbit20 when its out, I will get a grade3 braille reference guide and learn it. Then I can use the free turboBraille braille translator inside of talking dosbox to translate books in text files into grade3 braille and read them on the orbit20. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334546#p334546 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy well when the orbit20 comes out I will use a free program on windows called codex by james scholes. translate epub and other books into word then use the free send2braille to translate it into braille files and throw it onto the orbit20 sd card and off I go with hundreds of thousands of volumes of braille in any kind of language and braille code i wish, right in my pocket. I'll even put on some music braille code to get back into playing the trumpet again. http://tech.aph.org/or20 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334541#p334541 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy as I said before once the orbit reader20 is out worldwide, for the price of a good cell phone, you will have a nice affordable braille display that can read any braille code in any language you wish. http://tech.aph.org/or20 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334537#p334537 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy the orbit20 I tested is about the size of an old video tape. It can fit in a large jacket pocket. If the memory card is formatted as fat32 it can take up to a 128gb sd card. yes 128gb full of any braille books you want. any kind of digital braille at all. there are commands to substitute for no cursor router buttons. I really liked it when i tested it out. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334536#p334536 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hi afrim,I am actually a bilingual, though I think my english is alot better than my turkish, as I had more exposure to it. The contraction problem I had was with english braille, not turkish braille, as turkish is an orthographic language. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334346#p334346 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy At Simba: UEB is Unified English Braille, where some shady organizations tried to update English Braille, reduce the need for multiple codes (computer, Literary, Math, etc), and bring the codes from all the different Anglophone countries together. It fails at all of those, except that it does allow people to avoid computer braille. It's also easier for people to write translator software for, and resolves some conflicts that have become issues in the digital age, such as mid-word dots, capitalization, etc.In practice, the specific changes they went with range from "OK", to "That's kinda unpleasant, but I guess I can get use to it", to "Gah you ruined the past 200 years of embossing!", with a few "Why?"s here and there. I do like some things, like the new asterisk, using the Nemeth dollar sign (although I contend that the literary version saves space), and a few other small things. Some of it I can accept as necessary, if unpleasant. But I think my biggest annoyance is that someone decided to change a written language from above (this might not be a big deal to some people, but I'm from America, so that sort of thing feels wrong), and that it's optimized for the internet and (large) braille displays, effectively throwing literature under the bus. And, since my display is 20 cells, I occasionally stop and calculate how much space is saved or lost between US grade 2, UEB, and US grade 1, and UEB usually loses. (Not always, but Enough to make the difference. And yes, I believe that every cell saved counts, especially when you're dealing with paper or tiny displays, which will be the case until someone innovates on the hardware side and goes to market).Some of the "why?"s: parentheses and brackets (why didn't they go with Nemeth? Does this make more sense in the UK?), dropping o'clock (what was the point of that? Do people right "o'c" more than "o'clock" enough that it was a problem?), removing multiword contractions (what, did someone name a character in their unpublished novel "Tothe" or "Andfora", and happened to know the right people?), and while I get dropping suffix -bled, I haven't seen enough code that ends in #, #s, or #r to justify removing other -ble suffixes. I specify suffix only because Reddit does use #s in spoiler tags, but that's a wholeword.Annoying but understandable: dropping ation, ally, dd, and to*. Personally, I would have pointed out that mid-word capital N and Y are less common than ation and ally, and you can just add 56 to distinguish them, but apparently that's too complicated and translation software devs are probably grossly underpaid. I feel like the reason we didn't use 256 for every period in every context still applies—the sentence-ending version only works at the end of a sentence. Using it as a decimal point is especially hideous. The point of the decimal is to unobtrusively separate the numbers, and 256 does not do that as well as 46, or 3, or 6, or almost anything other than letters and dropped letters. It's a tiny bracket! And dropped d being d-related makes sense; a tiny bracket functioning like a dot would visually does not.Things I just don't like but can't come up with solutions for: diacritics. Great Gatsby, UEB accents are hideous. They make single letters take up 3 whole spaces. Distinguishing bold, italic, and underline is good (I don't remember strikethrough being in there, and it should be), but the way they did it is distracting.Things I like: *, bullets (I'm typing in US, and can't create bullets), sword, sphere, caps lock (sorta; the conflict with elipses is kinda annoying, and the UEB elipsis is an abomination), smother, finally clarifying [ a-t ], making it possible to include < and > without using platform-specific escape characters (so dot 4 ), and I think there are a couple others I'm not remembering ATM.But again, the most annoying part is that it's being pushed on everyone and makes anything embossed prior to 2008-2014 a confusing mess to new readers, and that it calls itself Unified when it very clearly prioritizes URLs, email addresses, and being able to code with contractions, over more common uses. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334329#p334329 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Does the Graphity support multi-line Braille? My intial thought was that it does not since it seems geared more for people that want to work with drawings and diagrams. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334338#p334338 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy At Simba: UEB is Unified English Braille, where some shady organizations tried to update English Braille, reduce the need for multiple codes (computer, Literary, Math, etc), and bring the codes from all the different Anglophone countries together. It fails at all of those, except that it does allow people to avoid computer braille. It's also easier for people to write translator software for, and resolves some conflicts that have become issues in the digital age, such as mid-word dots, capitalization, etc.In practice, the specific changes they went with range from "OK", to "That's kinda unpleasant, but I guess I can get use to it", to "Gah you ruined the past 200 years of embossing!", with a few "Why?"s here and there. I do like some things, like the new asterisk, using the Nemeth dollar sign (although I contend that the literary version saves space), and a few other small things. Some of it I can accept as necessary, if unpl easant. But I think my biggest annoyance is that someone decided to change a written language from above (this might not be a big deal to some people, but I'm from America, so that sort of thing feels wrong), and that it's optimized for the internet and (large) braille displays, effectively throwing literature under the bus. And, since my display is 20 cells, I occasionally stop and calculate how much space is saved or lost between US grade 2, UEB, and US grade 1, and UEB usually loses. (Not always, but Enough to make the difference. And yes, I believe that every cell saved counts, especially when you're dealing with paper or tiny displays, which will be the case until someone innovates on the hardware side and goes to market). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334329#p334329 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy For me, Braille is a little more useful than speech. Mainly because with speech, if you're in a classroom, or professional setting with loud people who just can't be quiet for one single nanosecond, you can't just keep turning up the volume on the headphones, or your ears will be overflowing in no time. With Braille, you can just read silently. Also, spelling and proofreading is far easier with Braille, unless you use Emacspeak. Also, with Braille, you can read formatting changes, like italics, symbolically, instead of just hearing Italics, end italics, unless you use Emacspeak, again. Since Emacspeak is only good on Linux and Mac, though, Windows users might as well use Braille, unless Narrator grows the way I want it to, or NVDA gets those features too, or you use JAWS and spend 10 minutes configuring a speech and sound scheme. So silent reading, spelling, and better understanding of formatting is what I get out of Braille. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334325#p334325 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Graphity appears to be from the same organizations currently struggling to get the Orbit Reader into bulk production, so I can't get very excited about it.The 3d pens sound awesome and I now know what I'm doing with my spare time today. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334307#p334307 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy There is supposedly a braille tablet, but like the orbit, it looks like that's not going to happen.Someone on here posted a thread listing all the braille displays which never took off.I went to a school for the blind, and when we did spelling tests, yes they still had them back then, we had to write the words out twice, both contracted if it had any, and uncontracted.This blitab, yeah, that's what they're calling it is promising big things.I guess we'll see, if it ever does get released. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334265#p334265 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy @Enes, I get what you mean when you say that you learnt spelling when you started using your PC to type. One question though, since I've seen that your mother tongue language is Turkkish, for what language does the above statement apply, English or Turkish? I ask this question because I myself learnt the correct spelling of English using my PC most of the time but it was a tough job as I had to check every now and then how a word was written when I hadn't come it across before. Talking about my mother tongue language, all of its spelling I learnt when I had braille books in my hand. We hardly ever used contractions. I also learnt Italian having absolutely no contact with Braille, but I won't do that mistake again if I begin to learn French as I plan to do in the following years. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334253#p334253 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I recall that PACMates cost around $300-400 to build, and the 1000% markup is ... to pay programmers and tech support, I think? And that system doesn't scale well, anyway, since it's a tangled mess of levers and such that have trouble enough with the interior dots on one line.Sure, the Orbit Reader exists. An effective means of manufacturing units apparently does not, however. I'm sure there's a legit financial or legal reason they can't just build a factory and ... I dunno, one a day? I think one a day would have been enough to start taking orders by now. I don't know the costs and hoop-jumpings involved, though. I know only that this looks precarious, from where I'm slouching. ... And it's still just 20 cells. Can we teach an octopus to read, then translate what it sees to braille? Then you would have a tablet and a pet predatory shape-shifting sea-ninja to protect your home from gar. And, being a service animal, the social media coverage would provide minutes of entertainment!(... At this point, I'm not sure the Seeing Eye Octopus isn't the best possibility. ) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334251#p334251 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hi,If braille has any future at all, it is refreshable braille. Paper braille is dead almost. Noone will want to carry around dozens of pounds of books to and from class.Asault freak, it is the fault of braille, as even if I learned the actual versions of contractions, I forgot what they were over time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334244#p334244 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy My opinion on Braille is that we certainly should teach it as it is still used on things like elevators, and even some schools are now labeling their classrooms with room numbers now, However, do to the high cost of Braille displays as well as lack of innovation in the market as stated earlier, I don't think Braille will ever be to blind people what print is to sited people. Personally, I still read and use Braille, but it's not as relevant to me as it use to be, and I still prefer audio books as I find I do not absorb information very well when reading with Braille. These days, I'm more of a Braille gamer than a Braille reader, though. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334243#p334243 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Honestly, what we need are full page Braille Displays that can be connected to computers. Physical hard copy Braille isn't very portable and can't change dynamically based on what you want to read. If the sighted get full refreshable screens, why are we still stuck with a single line of refreshable Braille that must continuously scroll back and forward to read?Imagine what a full page of Braille could do. You could learn how a particular screen was laid out. It would make charts, tables, and complex math equations easier to read. You could receive more document format info such as line indent and spacing. The future is refreshable Braille. If I can get my hands on a refreshable Braille page, I'll have little to no use for physical Braille paper.If cost is the issue, why doesn't someone come up with a cheaper method of production? There's been no innovation in the electronic Braille market for a long time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334236#p334236 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy That wouldn't be the fault of braille itself then... that would be an issue with the teacher who taught it to you. I don't see how any competent teacher would not bother telling you what contractions meant. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334201#p334201 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hi,I don't remember exactly. However, I know that I didn't know the real spelling of words until I started using the pc. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334193#p334193 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I can kinda see a sufficiently corner-cutting teacher leaving out the spellings of whole word contractions. Not so much things like tion or ance. Still, spelling tests with no contractions allowed really should be required, if this sort of thing is common. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334188#p334188 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Enes, could you please settle some confussion for me? If your teacher taught you contractions but not what they mean... I guess my question is, what do you mean by that? Because why teach shall contraction if you're not going to learn what it means? I'm confused on that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334182#p334182 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hi,The player, you are making a generalisation based on an extreme case. Just because your friend allegedly could read as fast as a sighted person does not necesarily mean that all, or even most of braille readers can.Dragomier, while you may read 240 words per minute, that still pales in comparason to the speed achievable with a screen reader. Asault freak, my school teacher never taught me what contractions stood for. Also, even if she had, you are likely to forget, from not seeing the whole words. Also, through intonation of the screen reader I can be aware of most of the punctuation marks used. I stand by my earlier post that braille does not improve spelling. Like I stated earlier, writing without contractions through a computer was the first time I really started learning spelling. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334175#p334175 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I use both, the speech of a screenreader and Braille. When I play games, especially muds, I use speech. It is just easier, and you can react quicker. When it comes to reading books however, I would always read them in Braille. For me, it is easier that way, to grab all the words, instead of having to listen to the voice of my screenreader for hours. Also, especially, when it comes to reading novels, it is much more fun, to read them on my own. A screenreader will never be able to deliver the right atmosphere, the writer had in mind. Most of my friends prefer, having their books read to htem by their screenreaders. That always amazed me, since I just can't imagine, how they can pay atention to the same, monotonous voice all the time.Of course, there are still propper audiobooks. And while the range of titles is already very, very big these days, not everything is available as an audiobook.I think, the biggest problem with Braille, beginning to lose it&# 039;s meaning is the fact, that most blind people can't afford the propper technology. I really hope, this will change in the future. Knowing, how to read and write is important. And saying, that blind readers are slower than sighted people, is not true. At least not in general. I knew someone once, who could read as fast as sighted people. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334136#p334136 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy yeah, I agree, UEB is pretty terrible.Another thing I don't like about braille is braille music. Its so different that its not even wurth learning in my opinion. however, I have a pretty good ear, so I imagine i'd feel different if I tried to learn music much later in life than I did.As for the spelling debate, I agree that, although braille may improve our spelling some what, we have a lot! Of contractions. Using screen readers may not actively improve our spelling, but I don't believe that it makes it any worse, either. We could, if we don't know the spelling of a word, use the character by character command to look at the spelling of words, where as with braille, a lot of the time, looking at spelling isn't quite the same because of all the contractions we have. I mean yeah, we should know what letters/words the contractions contract, but still, that's not quite the same in my opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334052#p334052 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Eh, while all your facts are accurate, I knda feel like laying off braille means you're missing an entire two out of the 3 rs, which just feels irresponsible, IMO.But yeah, I don't like UEB, either. And no, not because it's change. Because of several other reasons which are beyond the scope of this post. The reason most relevant to this discussion, though? Every single braille book made before the 21st century (so most of them) does not use it, locking new readers out. UEB was in the works since 1990, yet there was 0 attempt, so far as I know, to make a smooth transition in education. If you didn't follow organizations and such, you wouldn't even have known until the day you got a letter from the government using it. And invalidating most of the physical books out there just weakens braille overall. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334051#p334051 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hi,They are not opinions, they are facts. see this link.http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/132 … ading.htmlAccording to this article, an average college age adult reads approximately 300 words per minute, significantly more than the average braille reader. they are facts. Also, you seem to only be focusing on a single point of the many points I made. For instance, completely ignoring my points on skimming and scanning. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334044#p334044 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I think a better debate would be how rubbishy UEB is. If blind people want to use UEB that's fine but don't force it on me! UEB isn't the Braille I learned and I'm not just going to drop the code I know to learn this new one that makes no sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334041#p334041 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Enes... I have no idea where you're getting your figures, but I don't know of a print reader, ever, who can read 1000 words per minute. I can read 240 words per minute in braille. All of your facts that you just posted are a matter of personal opinion, as are most of mine. I think, though, you're focusing to much on one point. You may only be able to read 50-60 words a minute, which is fine, but again, a lot of this is personal preference. I could explain myself more but it would just be me saying the same thing over and over. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334038#p334038 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I know people who can read braille at around 300wpm, and I talked to a teacher who said he use to teach grade 3 to students who could read at least 200wpm. This is still a far cry from 500-1000, though.I kinda feel like, if someone doesn't know the letters that contractions stand for, they were taught wrong. But maybe that's just me.The horrible lack of innovation in Braille tech continues to frustrate me. ... Come to think of it, I got business cards from the Orbit Reader exhibit at NFB2016. Maybe I should ask what's taking so long, instead of complaining so much. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334030#p334030 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hi,Yes, braille is dieing, like it or not. Anyone who claims otherwise is seriously out of touch with reality. Tell me this, why would I read a research paper in braille at around 50-60 words a minute, when I can easily read it a few thousand words a minute with elequence? Additionally, I noticed that many people have resorted to comparing print to braille, which is an incorrect comparason for several reasons. First, and most importantly, is speed. An average sighted person can easily read between 500-1000 words per minute. While The fastest braille readers I heard of top out at around 150 words per minute. Second, print allows people to skim and scan text. A sighted person can take one look at a paper, and flip through the pages of a book, and decide if he should read it or not. Finally, print is easier to produce and store, while braille takes up at least 200% more space. Also, writing print does not require the use of a 12 pound device, or a device that will make your hands sore and give you blisters.Finally, one claim often made here in this topic is that braille significantly improves spelling. I would argue for the opposit. The use of contractions has harmed blind people's spelling more than computers ever could. It wasn't until I started using a computer that I started figuring out the actual, uncontracted spelling of words. Also, the apparent massive ammount of typos on blind people's work is only a sign of how seriously take the work. Anyone who is writing an important document, e.g a statement of purpose, a thesis, or a job application should check his spelling. The lack of this just shows the person's carelessness with important work. Also, sited people also don't bother to check their spelling much, and complain about the grades they receive from typos on papers. On the other hand, how I choose to write in nonacademic settings is noone's business but my own.Having said all this, does braille have it's uses? Of course. For instance learning a foreign language, studying linguistics, or some other tasks can greatly benefit from braille. However, I believe that learning braille isn't as important as it previously was, though it is still a useful skill to have. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334029#p334029 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I find braille easy, but I would, wouldn't I?Speed-wise, though, almost no one reads braille fast enough to match screen readers. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334020#p334020 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I agree, Dragomier. I myself am moving on to screen reader because it's so much easier and simpler. and the Uni I am currently in doesn't have facility and accessibility for the blind, so I am completely learn on my own, trying to keep up with my classmates around me. often I ask to the lecturer about my problem, and luckily they are willing to cooperate with whatever they can. however, braille in Indonesia is not fully integrated yet, in fact, audio book and other stuff too. many soft file of the books aren't available, much less the braille, so I have to buy the hard copy and find sighted people to aid me. that being said, the fact that people just want the easy way without thinking further of the consequences makes me sad. indeed braille can't keep up with those all inconveniences, but I definitely can't forget it, unless if I want to spell all of the millions characters in the novel I read, which I don't want to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=334012#p334012 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I think what it comes down to is the fact that people want to take the easy way out. The people I've spoken to who are staunch supporters of screen reading have all said, "It's easier." That makes me sad as well, for the simple fact that people are too quick to take the easy way out which is not always a benefit. I want to make this clear: I also use a screen reader, as is evidenced by the fact that I play audiogames. But that's about the extent of it, besides Twitter and Facebook. One other thing to note: People who may not speak English primarily will make spelling mistakes, hell, you should see me try to write in Spanish, it's atrocious. But sometimes, when English speakers are writing illegibley... That worries me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333996#p333996 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Hi.Braille is dying. I can just agree on that, but not in the whole sence. The only way where braille is dying is on traditional paper, the focus is shifting twards braille displays and devices coming in the future. And honestly, I can just greet this.I remember when I was still new to highschool, back in 2008 and we had all our books, exercises and worksheets in huge folders which we need to carrie around when we switched classes. You had your backpack, some folders and books, and mostly, even a brailler, one of those huge clunky things with you.Also when you went home, at the school where I was, the students live in flats with 8 students and 3 to 4 officials who watched out that everything went alright, I hated this time but this is another storie.Anyway, back to my point, imagine a whole school day with let's say mathematics, english and german classes and in every of those, you had homework till the next day, so I had all the three folders for the things I write down, and books for all these lessons, sometimes two books because the exercises were in different books.I don't know if you all know those big office file folders and if you ever tryed to fit six of those into a backpack, you know that this is pointless.And if you have a full backpack, folders under your arm and a cane and had to walk over to the place where you lived, yeah, this was anoying.And today? Everything digitalized, including books, worksheets and so on, everything on a laptop, backed up to a thumb drive or USB stick, no big hastle of carrying it all around, cloud storage gives already has everything ready when I come to my workplace and I can imediately start working in the cloud.I think from that breaf report you can get that I enjoy reading braille in digital form more than on paper.The trend of many people just listening to their screen reader is something that i am watching with worry as well. I mean hey, it's th ere problem in the end if their text is full of typos and alike. I have to admit, I also do a lot of spelling mistakes, but I am trying my best to improve my spelling and grammar.Greetings Moritz. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333969#p333969 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hello guysI leave in Indonesia, where many people still don't know what we, as the visually impaired, can do by ourselves. the public facilities for us here aren't all accessible not like their in US or other country, or so I thought.I started elementary school in school for the blind, they call it here SLB, and I learned and read with braille by then. I was there till my high school, and still didn't think it much.now after went to Uni and experienced so called a college life, I didn't think I could survive if with just braille, so I began to using screen reader for most (if not all) college learning activities, and braille has slowly forgotten. I am currently taking english as my major, and after several months I know using screen reader makes my spelling became rather bad, but I didn't know if I'd go back to braille yet, because it sounds rather impractical. but screen reader make some of us here in Indonesia, had a serious proble m with spelling, it serious to the point, that they could wrote hashtag as link number sadmonday rather than #sadmonday in their facebook status. but it can't be denied that screen reader is the thing that can help us keep up with the world around us. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333951#p333951 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Hello everyone. I did a little research on this a while back. Let me give you some recent shocking statistics to show you the magnitude of the Braille Literacy crisis. Out of all blind people in the world, approximately 75% of them are unemployed. Also 10R of blind people read braille while the rest of them resort to auditory solutions alone. This is in comparison to 40 years ago, when 50 percent of all children in the United States were reading braille. Now I know that the wealth of individual citizens of other countries has to be taken into account here, but still, this is a shocking decline, and I fully support any organization that advocates for braille literacy, as I believe the unemployment rate for blind people would increase in a major way if more learned braille and used it often academically and in the workplace. I am pleased to inform all if you don't know that the price of braille displays is being addressed slowly and surely. Orbit Research has made a Brail le display that is priced at 450 dollars, and can refresh with 20 cells. This is a start, and I am confident that it will continue to grow. Also The affordability of Assistive Technologies (that includes baille displays) might increase because of an act introduced by two senitors that will go into affect soon. This bill is supported by the National Federation of the Blind and is known as the Accessible Technology Affordability Act *ATAA( which will allow those who have a job and are eligible to purchase assistive technologies to be given a 2500-dollar tax credit over a 3-year period, in order to purchase such technologies. With money flowing in from income, I think this could increase literacy for bkubd people. I hope that action can be taken in several countries to increase worldwide braille literacy and the proliferation of digital braille. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333943#p333943 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy Afrim, it's interesting you bring that up because I actually had a debate with someone about that very same topic not long ago. While yes, Braille displays do a lot less than mainstream computers, consider this: Computer manufacturers are selling to a higher number of people. They can afford to make their prices significantly less, because their devices are in much higher production and much higher profit. Now a braille device is usually A, bought by a school district for one or more students or B, bought by a select group of people who can raise the money for it, their profit is significantly less. And there are multiple things besides the technological aspects. You have to take into account licensing agreements, labor costs, part costs, distribution, repairing, like any other tech company would have to. But again, the reason braille devices are so outlandishly pricey is the simple fact they need to do it to make a living. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333921#p333921 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy I think I read braille once since high school, and I really don't see myself going back to it at all. also I would rather listen to an audiobook than have to have a book with 6 or 7 different volumes. especially on a vacation or something. I have no idea why people would want to deal with all that insanity really. it's just so much easier to buy an iPad or something and put your books or whatever on it. also yeah my spelling might be a bit bad sometimes, but I wouldn't blame braille for it, that's kind of crazy. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333910#p333910 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy hmm. I agree for the must part.The reason I aren't reading braille myself is because I started learning it at the age of 16 (and I'm 18 now).I just can't learn it quick enough that it would be practical for me to use when I'm at school or programming at home, but I would love to some day read braille as fast (or nearly as fast) as I can understand a speech. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333906#p333906 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Braille: A philosophy
Re: Braille: A philosophy i gotta be honest, I don't read braille nearly as much as I should. I know it, pretty well, but don't read it much, because yeah... I prefer to read audiobooks. Not only because i can just listen, but braille books are quite huge. One harry potter book, for example, is like 5 volumes at least. Its much more convenient to read audio.As for my spelling, its pretty bad, probably because of the fact I don't rea braille that much. However, I still know it, and do read it. Braille signs, or my braille note touch, or math work, are all in braille. Yes, I use braille on my touch rather than speech. I actually turn off the speech most of the time and just read everything.But, although I do turn to audio when I can, I still know there's always going to be a time for braille. Many people I know who go to a blind school hardly know braille. Yet another reason i dislike those schools... You aren't forced to read. Apparently its more independent that way? Fo r another topic. anyway, people I know don't even hardly know braille at all. And, honestly, that pisses me off. Braille is reading. If you don't know it, you don't know how to read. I was at a summer camp in july, and someone asked me to read the sign for a room because he didn't know contractions. Seriously? While I don't always read braille, it is still important to know. It may be dying... Slowly... But same with cursive writing i guess... I do think it is very important to know braille, because if you don't you basically don't know how to read. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=333894#p333894 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
