Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries OK, then the question becomes: how do we get the necessary tech advancements in a world that is still too Capitalist to ignore?Open source projects that are funded through donations or government investment even actually offers an opportunity. Part of the problem that capitalism faces is that it conflicts directly with automation; we are reaching a point where automation is starting to take more jobs than it actually creates. IMHO this is a much bigger problem with capitalism interfering with the development of such technology rather than a problem in communism itself.I don't want to keep coming back to the USSR, since we agree they failed so hard it might literally be visible from space, but I think one of the big problems that 20th century Communists had is that they were trying to go from pre-industrial to Communist without the intervening industrial-Capitalist phase, and trying to brute-force it with a planned economy destroyed things on scales for which Biblical would undersell the body count.I sort of agree; I think fundamentally communism conflicts heavily with what a "state" is which is why I'm anti-state. Ideal end stage communism would have no state. The issue then becomes how that is achieved. Insofar as I know there are two main approaches, centralized (socialists) and decentralized (anarchists); the socialists believe that the state would represent a secure, safe model to ensure safe transition while anarchists believe that a transition should occur more democratically. For me, a state isn't the people, the state will always protect itself before the people, and over time it will be more inclined to protect more and more of itself; this is why you can see the emergence of things like gulags ect.I do want to challenge some of the "do the work for free" type stuff. Mostly because the problems I mentioned with healthcare are not solved via volunteer medical professionals. Doctors still need expensive certifications, and research is still expensive.The reason why those things are expensive is because essentially of capitalsim. Healthcare is weird because I think it's one of the much more socializable aspects of production. Let's assume that we valued doctors for their work so much that we gave them free room and board while they studied and perform their tasks - do you think that they would suddenly stop doing their jobs? Sure, some would, but it would also make being a doctor more accessible to people who actually want to be doctors. The problem with transitioning between capitalism to communism is that this doesn't occur in a vacuum and could have profound effects on the rest of the economy as well as being poorly managed while being restructured; but I think these problems should be addressed gradually instead of assuming that capitalism "works".Personally, I believe in the idea that socialist alternatives should compete and be funded by small communities of dedicated individuals. This allows the product to compete in the capitalist space and encourage communities to eventually transition away from capitalistly sourced resources. These communities can have some advantages over a corporation, depending on how they're structured, such as having no structured hierarchy, reduced operation costs, no need for labour costs, having creative dedicated individuals instead of marketing teams behind production ect., allowing them to stay competitive. The main problem is that this requires an extremely vulnerable initial startup phase. Obviously this wouldn't start with medicine but something much more practical - most likely in computers.UBI kinda scares me, tbh. It's hard to explain, but it almost feels more like a prison sentence than an offer of additional freedom. I'm not sure why. I'd probably change my mind if I actually had it.Don't take this the wrong way but I really don't understand the problem with UBI. It's not like you can't have a job with UBI (unlike how with many assistance programs you have to prove you don't need assistance). I actually like the idea because it greatly reduces the amount of beuocracy surrounding public assistance and we can focus our money on things that we actually want instead of having to worry if we'll be on the street or can eat. Also, taxes can eat up any UBI given to anyone who makes above a certain income level.I think it's because personal freedom is hard, and UBI by itself reminds me too much of the abyss of awful that was college. ... and 2014. Although I did go back for a semester in 2014, so I guess that counts. Ugh. ugh Ugh ugh uGh ugH UGH.IDK man I just don't know why you'd want to make it harder on yourself. Sure you were dumb in college but you were also younger back then and I really don't believe that's just because you were receiving assistance from somewhere. Yeah, if I was 22 and I had UBI I would be dumb with it, but now I really wish I had UBI because then I could quit my
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries OK, then the question becomes: how do we get the necessary tech advancements in a world that is still too Capitalist to ignore?Open source projects that are funded through donations or government investment even actually offers an opportunity. Part of the problem that capitalism faces is that it conflicts directly with automation; we are reaching a point where automation is starting to take more jobs than it actually creates. IMHO this is a much bigger problem with capitalism interfering with the development of such technology rather than a problem in communism itself.I don't want to keep coming back to the USSR, since we agree they failed so hard it might literally be visible from space, but I think one of the big problems that 20th century Communists had is that they were trying to go from pre-industrial to Communist without the intervening industrial-Capitalist phase, and trying to brute-force it with a planned economy destroyed things on scales for which Biblical would undersell the body count.I sort of agree; I think fundamentally communism conflicts heavily with what a "state" is which is why I'm anti-state. Ideal end stage communism would have no state. The issue then becomes how that is achieved. Insofar as I know there are two main approaches, centralized (socialists) and decentralized (anarchists); the socialists believe that the state would represent a secure, safe model to ensure safe transition while anarchists believe that a transition should occur more democratically. For me, a state isn't the people, the state will always protect itself before the people, and over time it will be more inclined to protect more and more of itself; this is why you can see the emergence of things like gulags ect.I do want to challenge some of the "do the work for free" type stuff. Mostly because the problems I mentioned with healthcare are not solved via volunteer medical professionals. Doctors still need expensive certifications, and research is still expensive.The reason why those things are expensive is because essentially of capitalsim. Healthcare is weird because I think it's one of the much more socializable aspects of production. Let's assume that we valued doctors for their work so much that we gave them free room and board while they studied and perform their tasks - do you think that they would suddenly stop doing their jobs? Sure, some would, but it would also make being a doctor more accessible to people who actually want to be doctors. The problem with transitioning between capitalism to communism is that this doesn't occur in a vacuum and could have profound effects on the rest of the economy as well as being poorly managed while being restructured; but I think these problems should be addressed gradually instead of assuming that capitalism "works".Personally, I believe in the idea that socialist alternatives should compete and be funded by small communities of dedicated individuals. This allows the product to compete in the capitalist space and encourage communities to eventually transition away from capitalistly sourced resources. These communities can have some advantages over a corporation, depending on how they're structured, such as having no structured hierarchy, reduced operation costs, no need for labour costs, having creative dedicated individuals instead of marketing teams behind production ect., allowing them to stay competitive. The main problem is that this requires an extremely vulnerable initial startup phase. Obviously this wouldn't start with medicine but something much more practical - most likely in computers.UBI kinda scares me, tbh. It's hard to explain, but it almost feels more like a prison sentence than an offer of additional freedom. I'm not sure why. I'd probably change my mind if I actually had it.Don't take this the wrong way but I really don't understand the problem with UBI. It's not like you can't have a job with UBI (unlike how with many assistance programs you have to prove you don't need assistance). I actually like the idea because it greatly reduces the amount of beuocracy surrounding public assistance and we can focus our money on things that we actually want instead of having to worry if we'll be on the street or can eat.I think it's because personal freedom is hard, and UBI by itself reminds me too much of the abyss of awful that was college. ... and 2014. Although I did go back for a semester in 2014, so I guess that counts. Ugh. ugh Ugh ugh uGh ugH UGH.IDK man I just don't know why you'd want to make it harder on yourself. Sure you were dumb in college but you were also younger back then and I really don't believe that's just because you were receiving assistance from somewhere. Yeah, if I was 22 and I had UBI I would be dumb with it, but now I really wish I had UBI because then I could quit my job, dedicate myself full time to game production and push my accessible gaming shit. Th
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries OK, then the question becomes: how do we get the necessary tech advancements in a world that is still too Capitalist to ignore?Open source projects that are funded through donations or government investment even actually offers an opportunity. Part of the problem that capitalism faces is that it conflicts directly with automation; we are reaching a point where automation is starting to take more jobs than it actually creates. IMHO this is a much bigger problem with capitalism interfering with the development of such technology rather than a problem in communism itself.I don't want to keep coming back to the USSR, since we agree they failed so hard it might literally be visible from space, but I think one of the big problems that 20th century Communists had is that they were trying to go from pre-industrial to Communist without the intervening industrial-Capitalist phase, and trying to brute-force it with a planned economy destroyed things on scales for which Biblical would undersell the body count.I sort of agree; I think fundamentally communism conflicts heavily with what a "state" is which is why I'm anti-state. Ideal end stage communism would have no state. The issue then becomes how that is achieved. Insofar as I know there are two main approaches, centralized (socialists) and decentralized (anarchists); the socialists believe that the state would represent a secure, safe model to ensure safe transition while anarchists believe that a transition should occur more democratically. For me, a state isn't the people, the state will always protect itself before the people, and over time it will be more inclined to protect more and more of itself; this is why you can see the emergence of things like gulags ect.I do want to challenge some of the "do the work for free" type stuff. Mostly because the problems I mentioned with healthcare are not solved via volunteer medical professionals. Doctors still need expensive certifications, and research is still expensive.The reason why those things are expensive is because essentially of capitalsim. Healthcare is weird because I think it's one of the much more socializable aspects of production. Let's assume that we valued doctors for their work so much that we gave them free room and board while they studied and perform their tasks - do you think that they would suddenly stop doing their jobs? Sure, some would, but it would also make being a doctor more accessible to people who actually want to be doctors. The problem with transitioning between capitalism to communism is that this doesn't occur in a vacuum and could have profound effects on the rest of the economy as well as being poorly managed while being restructured; but I think these problems should be addressed gradually instead of assuming that capitalism "works".Personally, I believe in the idea that socialist alternatives should compete and be funded by small communities of dedicated individuals. This allows the product to compete in the capitalist space and encourage communities to eventually transition away from capitalistly sourced resources. The main problem is that this requires an extremely vulnerable initial startup phase. Obviously this wouldn't start with medicine but something much more practical - most likely in computers.UBI kinda scares me, tbh. It's hard to explain, but it almost feels more like a prison sentence than an offer of additional freedom. I'm not sure why. I'd probably change my mind if I actually had it.Don't take this the wrong way but I really don't understand the problem with UBI. It's not like you can't have a job with UBI (unlike how with many assistance programs you have to prove you don't need assistance). I actually like the idea because it greatly reduces the amount of beuocracy surrounding public assistance and we can focus our money on things that we actually want instead of having to worry if we'll be on the street or can eat.I think it's because personal freedom is hard, and UBI by itself reminds me too much of the abyss of awful that was college. ... and 2014. Although I did go back for a semester in 2014, so I guess that counts. Ugh. ugh Ugh ugh uGh ugH UGH.IDK man I just don't know why you'd want to make it harder on yourself. Sure you were dumb in college but you were also younger back then and I really don't believe that's just because you were receiving assistance from somewhere. Yeah, if I was 22 and I had UBI I would be dumb with it, but now I really wish I had UBI because then I could quit my job, dedicate myself full time to game production and push my accessible gaming shit. The fact that I have to be fully self reliant because of capitalism prevents me from finding my own personal freedom.IMHO capitalism only offers "freedom" if your definition of freedom is freedom of consuming material experiences and things...Regarding cutting healthcare costs. A lot of the cost
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
OK, then the question becomes: how do we get the necessary tech advancements in a world that is still too Capitalist to ignore? I don't want to keep coming back to the USSR, since we agree they failed so hard it might literally be visible from space, but I think one of the big problems that 20th century Communists had is that they were trying to go from pre-industrial to Communist without the intervening industrial-Capitalist phase, and trying to brute-force it with a planned economy destroyed things on scales for which Biblical would undersell the body count. It's an extreme example, and you've already demonstrated that you think rushing like the Russians is a bad idea, but I'm not entirely clear on what can be done now, vs what requires more advances, and how we can avoid the eternal procrastination phenomenon ("we'll get to it eventually. Eventually.").I like that you brought up 3d printing, mostly because of the super fiberoptics cables they made using the International Space Station's 3d printer that could not be made on Earth. But if I stay on space too long, I'll find a way to make an annoying FALGSC reference.I do want to challenge some of the "do the work for free" type stuff. Mostly because the problems I mentioned with healthcare are not solved via volunteer medical professionals. Doctors still need expensive certifications, and research is still expensive. We can solve the first if we can get a Healthcare Czar to make the MD requirements less pointlessly expensive, but the latter is the real bottleneck. I'm sure that if I do enough research, I can find one or two aspects that would benefit from more space-stuff, but that would kinda miss the point.One innovation that would apparently help, unless the studies have failed to replicate or something, is to get doctors to follow checklists, and to make the software that hospitals and other medical practices use better (you thought I couldn't bring it back to space but behold! The space shuttle software was actually nigh perfect when shipped!) The thing these have in common, though, is that they're more Healthcare reform than new medical tech or socialist. But nobody can lead with nuanced policy proposals that might actually be implementable with bipartisan support, because that wouldn't energize the base or something. Have I mentioned partisanship is bad? Because partisanship is bad, mkay?(Since I keep tying space to everything... umm... we could send partisan politicians into space, and only let them come back to Earth if they ... either invent something useful, or win a Gundam fight?)UBI kinda scares me, tbh. It's hard to explain, but it almost feels more like a prison sentence than an offer of additional freedom. I'm not sure why. I'd probably change my mind if I actually had it. Heck, the LCB stipened on top of SSI is close to $1k, and I wasn't exactly paying the same amount in utilities or internet while there, so maybe money more or less being a non-issue was a bigger deal than was obvious? ...I think it's because personal freedom is hard, and UBI by itself reminds me too much of the abyss of awful that was college. ... and 2014. Although I did go back for a semester in 2014, so I guess that counts. Ugh. ugh Ugh ugh uGh ugH UGH.A few years back, I wrote a dialog between a couple of characters trying to come up with a way to cut healthcare costs. It was not too detailed, but it covered the point that the problem is not people being unwilling to work for free/cheap, but all the upstream costs. Not sure if I can find it or if it's worth sharing. And it focused on doctors and hospitals more than R, and, again, taking the profit motive out of the picture doesn't make R stop being costly. I mean, if it turns out that the cure for a bunch of cancers can only be produced in masse in space, money or no, that's going to be costly. And that's apparently not as far beyond the difficulties involved in developing new treatments as you might think. You basically have to get a huge number of people who want it more than anything else, are clever enough to use all the most efficient and most effective means, and you'd also have to reform the existing systems to make the barriers more reasonable and less "to distribute this life-saving treatment, you must first burn a giant pile of money".Re: fix Earth before going to Space, I should point out that I'm not talking about moving to Mars, so much as the stuff we can do in Space that can improve things on Earth. Ex, low gravity chemistry, things requiring a vacuum, solar power (apparently solar panels are easier to manufacture in space, never mind all the wasted solar energy up there), etc. I include the Moon mainly because it's so bloody expensive to get things into Space that using the Moon as a source of raw materials could make all of the above more viable. And I get the impression we've failed hard enough at fighting climate change t
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries I have yet to stumble upon the sort of Capitalist who says that outlandish CEO pay is a good thing. I do feel like a lot of people grossly underestimate the work that top executives have to do—I seem to remember Bill Gates and Steve Jobs puting in 15 hour days during the heights of their executiveship—but even then, who does anything worth a billion dollars?I think you mistaken the problems as moral ones - the problem with not having labour properly compensated means that capitalism will inevitably collapse after most capital is forced to the top. Think about the example with the CEO for a second, the CEO can often buy many times more things than the people who are actually producing things. This means over time money is moving away from the producers and more towards the people pushing money around. Actually, I'm pretty sure that its impossible to not have a net loss over time here. An analogy would be like a machine working with 100% efficiency - some heat is lost to friction and thus you can't run a machine perpetually without energy input.AKA, these problems don't go away just because we say we disagree with them morally.Re: Gender. It is off topic and I wish it hadn't come up, but I will say that the Gender Studies noise-making annoys the hell out of me, because I find the Gender Binary annoying and archaeic and just why? (The why is presumably "division of labor based on sexual dimorphism", but this ain't the neolithic, dangit!). What does preaching about it accomplish, other than getting people who didn't care in the first place to double down on the defaults as somehow infallible and unchangeable? Have Gender Studies and Gender Theory done anything to unambiguously improve equality, make life better for those who don't fit the WASP traditional genders? Done anything useful whatsoever, other than turn would-be church-ladies into Vice Admiral Holdo?I think what is actually happening is that idpol academics, while having meaningful contributions within their field, are working on very specific, detailed issues that are difficult to discuss with a general audience - whether or not those issues are "worth it" or not to discuss is anyone's guess. The activist on the other hand is trying to have their individuality recognized; at its core, queer issues do actually affect everyone because they are fundamentally about freedom of bodily autonomy and _expression_. Should society decide for us what is and what isn't acceptable? And this is an important question for all of us - that is often lost in the fog of people trying to finding moral justice.In my opinion I look at the situation very simply - our natural origins interferes with our freedom of autonomy and identity. We will eventually overtake our natural origins, through technology, to find that freedom. These social justice movements are less about morals and more about accessing more freedoms as individuals.I do think that one of the biggest problems with academics is that it in of itself is a huge source of privilege - how many people get to dedicate their lives to the precise issues afflicting a specific demographic of queer black women in a suburb of Phoenix, Arizona? Most of us have to live the hard life and in a way part of your frustration is actually a form of protest against the academic elitism.Highly disagree with space based infrastructure, huge waste of money, time and resources when we really need to organize ourselves on Earth first. Elon Musk is a good example that imho we can't really rely on billionaires to do the work for us. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428182/#p428182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries I have yet to stumble upon the sort of Capitalist who says that outlandish CEO pay is a good thing. I do feel like a lot of people grossly underestimate the work that top executives have to do—I seem to remember Bill Gates and Steve Jobs puting in 15 hour days during the heights of their executiveship—but even then, who does anything worth a billion dollars?I think you mistaken the problems as moral ones - the problem with not having labour properly compensated means that capitalism will inevitably collapse after most capital is forced to the top. Think about the example with the CEO for a second, the CEO can often buy many times more things than the people who are actually producing things. This means over time money is moving away from the producers and more towards the people pushing money around. Actually, I'm pretty sure that its impossible to not have a net loss over time here. An analogy would be like a machine working with 100% efficiency - some heat is lost to friction and thus you can't run a machine perpetually without energy input.AKA, these problems don't go away just because we say we disagree with them morally.Re: Gender. It is off topic and I wish it hadn't come up, but I will say that the Gender Studies noise-making annoys the hell out of me, because I find the Gender Binary annoying and archaeic and just why? (The why is presumably "division of labor based on sexual dimorphism", but this ain't the neolithic, dangit!). What does preaching about it accomplish, other than getting people who didn't care in the first place to double down on the defaults as somehow infallible and unchangeable? Have Gender Studies and Gender Theory done anything to unambiguously improve equality, make life better for those who don't fit the WASP traditional genders? Done anything useful whatsoever, other than turn would-be church-ladies into Vice Admiral Holdo?I think what is actually happening is that idpol academics, while having meaningful contributions within their field, are working on very specific, detailed issues that are difficult to discuss with a general audience - whether or not those issues are "worth it" or not to discuss is anyone's guess. The activist on the other hand is trying to have their individuality recognized; at its core, queer issues do actually affect everyone because they are fundamentally about freedom of bodily autonomy and _expression_. Should society decide for us what is and what isn't acceptable? And this is an important question for all of us - that is often lost in the fog of people trying to finding moral justice.I do think that one of the biggest problems with academics is that it in of itself is a huge source of privilege - how many people get to dedicate their lives to the precise issues afflicting a specific demographic of queer black women in a suburb of Phoenix, Arizona? Most of us have to live the hard life and in a way part of your frustration is actually a form of protest against the academic elitism.Highly disagree with space based infrastructure, huge waste of money, time and resources when we really need to organize ourselves on Earth first. Elon Musk is a good example that imho we can't really rely on billionaires to do the work for us. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428182/#p428182 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Socialism's answer is something like this:Nothing actually has to cost money unless you're a capitalist and/or unless you need money to survive. Money is not literally transmuted into goods or services. That's labour.This means that if you could somehow convince people to work for free, all your costs would evaporate. You would simply need an available team with the expertise to treat the sick and injured, and to continue research and development. Right now, that simply will not fly.So that's where technology comes in. 3d printing is, as I said before, especially lucrative. Farming strategies are growing more complex and less space-intensive (vertical farming, anyone?). Energy sources are trying to become cleaner, which is just better all around even if it takes awhile. More and more tasks are able to be automated. This will free human beings themselves up to do other things.The fact is this. No, you can't just hand-wave the bad socialists and bad communists and bad capitalists and all the rest. But you can absolutely put them in a box and tell them to stay there. Know why? Because people try and represent the movement with them. I'm not going to point at the Crusades and say all Christians are jerks, so I'm not going to stand by and let you point at the Russians and say that communism is dirty. The Christians fucked things up with the Crusades. The Russians fucked things up with communism. They are both inarguable points of history. It's just not realistic to tar an entire movement with one brush.Now, as to why they failed? Simple. Because technology and such simply weren't there yet. If you don't have the resources, or the ability to get those resources, the socialism is going to be tricky if you try and take it to an extreme. This is why taking it gradually is a good start. Health care is a great place to start. Public programs, UBI, that sort of thing. Fun fact: in Ontario, we have a thing called Ontario Works, which is what you can go on if you don't have a job and are looking, and don't have a disability. The maximum amount you can make on OW is something like 760 bucks a month. That is not even enough for rent alone in most cities and towns in Ontario, unless you want to live in the worst neighbourhoods. And again, that's just rent. No food, no internet, no expenses. Rent. This is not UBI. It has not responded to inflation, and that's a bad thing. For UBI to be effective, it needs to be enough that your basic needs (food and shelter, particularly) are met. Some blind people have this, some don't. I think -everyone should have it.As far as the whole property thing? Eventually, far down the line, property stops being quite the dumpster fire it is nowadays. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428126/#p428126 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries @Jayde: I think your best point here has been that money and resources need not be inseparably linked. I mean, I have no idea how you could separate them at this point, and trying to do so by wit and force of will has not worked out for me in all the years that I've been trying, but separating money from value is a good start.@Dagonite: speaking of money vs value, that was an excellent point about prices and paychecks not accurately tracking the value that people and products provide. I have yet to stumble upon the sort of Capitalist who says that outlandish CEO pay is a good thing. I do feel like a lot of people grossly underestimate the work that top executives have to do—I seem to remember Bill Gates and Steve Jobs puting in 15 hour days during the heights of their executiveship—but even then, who does anything worth a billion dollars?I've been noticing something as people try to determine how wealth redistribution will work, though. That something being that a lot of the 1% don't actually have giant swimmingpools full of money, so much as lots of high-value stock in their company/ies. Much of their fame and power comes from people knowing that they are in charge of something that does so well on the stock market. Oh, they're traditionally rich, too; they can't just walk into a restaurant or airport and get free service. But those outlandishly huge numbers that the tech and oil giants get in Forb's are "Net Worth" estimates, rather than what's in their bank accounts. How do you tax a billion dollars in stock? Require that they surrender half of it to the government, who either sells it for tax revenue, or gives them out for free to citizens? The latter would bring the prices down, which would reduce the value of doing it in the first place, but it would be increasing public ownership in the big corporations. It wouldn't do anything for Healthcare, Foodstamps, or Education, but it would be one step closer to reasonable value distribution?Re: Gender. It is off topic and I wish it hadn't come up, but I will say that the Gender Studies noise-making annoys the hell out of me, because I find the Gender Binary annoying and archaeic and just why? (The why is presumably "division of labor based on sexual dimorphism", but this ain't the neolithic, dangit!). What does preaching about it accomplish, other than getting people who didn't care in the first place to double down on the defaults as somehow infallible and unchangeable? Have Gender Studies and Gender Theory done anything to unambiguously improve equality, make life better for those who don't fit the WASP traditional genders? Done anything useful whatsoever, other than turn would-be church-ladies into Vice Admiral Holdo? It bugs me more than gender essentialists, toxic masculinists, and gender role enforcers, because (1) I escaped those assholes when I got out of high school, and (2) it hurts so much more when the "good guys" are the ones making things worse. A lot of the anti-American stuff from The Left™? That's because it's worse when the "good guys" do wrong. We expect the "bad guys" to do "bad things". You know what to do with that: you resist, fight back if necessary. What do you do when the "good guys" are doing the "bad thing", and won't listen when you point this out?And that's where I am with the state of Gender and Race conversations in the 2010s. The champions of Social Justice are making it worse.I mean, the loudest are usually hypocrites overcompensating for their own failings. Gay homophobic preachers, closeted racist antiracists, the redpill types being resentful of the strongly gendered, Male Feminists™ who really just want to get laid, the list goes on. It doesn't help anyone. But even ignoring that, this is the Streisand Effect with a dash of 1980s-2000s Satanic Goths levels of not helping.My favorite solution? Figure out how to reduce the counterproductive levels of paranoia in ... I kinda want to retire the word "modern" to refer to 1492-1991, but "Millennial" is too generation-coded... *ahem* it's more a goal than a solution, isn't it? But I'd prefer to fight paranoia, then find something we can build that will help dramatically reduce scarcity, so we can get to implementing better policies. I like the idea of using Space-based infrastructure for this (lots of solar power, Helium, and precious metals with actual industrial uses out there), but that's a really hard engineering problem, and, well, look at the feelings surrounding Elon Musk. Of course, he's trying to speed to Mars, so he can personally go there during his lifetime, instead of building the solar power and mining infrastructure in orbit and on the moon that we could use to bring energy and launch costs down enormously, but still!But it doesn't have to be space. That would just be the super-cool option. Sure, it'd let us fight
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Ugh, I saw the title, decided I wanted to avoid the inevitable dumpster-fire, then the weekend hit and I had nothing better to do and I read the first 7 posts and wish I'd just read it in the first place so as not to be so late.@ 7: No True Scotsman No True Scotsman! If every time someone has claimed to attempt something, it immediately devolved into totalitarian atrocities, that does not speak well of the ability to attempt the thing. Communism has been tried, just as theocracy and various religions have been tried. I bring up religion because, 15-ish years ago, the debates were about religion (and Dubya's foreign policy, but that's off topic), and the whole reason anyone knows about the No True Scotsman Fallacy is because those often resulted in one side claiming that such and such christians were wrong or abusive or whatever, and the other responding that those were not True Christians. And, you know what? I read the Gospels, and the latter is correct. It is also irrelevant when talking about things at the societal, cultural, or governmental levels. Scandinavian Democratic Socialism, and Soviet Socialism, both count for / against Socialism, just like witch-burnings and soup kitchens both count against / for Christianity. This is why getting attached to a group identifier is a dangerous idea: you cannot eject the baggage you don't like. If you're lucky, the baggage is outdated or defeated or far less extreme than it sounds—After all, 20th century Communism is gone, and unless you count Operation Iraqi Freedom, the Crusades are long gone, and Islamic Terrorism was always exaggerated after its one big victory against The West™. TBH, this rant is as much on Herseth for puting Socialism on the spot as it is on Jayde for the ... I did say I stopped at post 8, right? Because if there's better defenses later, I haven't reached them yet.@Jayde: the one thing in your first two posts in this thread that really bugged me was how you linked rejection of the Capitalist work-mandate to the implementability of Socialist policies. It's almost a nonsequidor. The question isn't whether you must work for such and such benefits[1], but how such and such benefits are produced and distributed. The complete and utter failure of every Communist government to effectively produce and distribute (their whole schtick!) has done about as much to tarnish their reputations as the brutal dictators, but everyone with any knowledge of recent history has retreated to the Scandinavian style, so I'll drop the references to Communism henceforth.Scandinavia is interesting, historically speaking. Kinda kept to themselves until the fall of Rome, then grew strong from the loot and conquests of the Vikings, then everyone converted to Christianity and Viking was no longer profitable, there was some dabbling in European warfare and imperialism, but never on the scale of the other European nations (well, the Great Northern War might sorta-kinda count?), then those who weren't neutral sorta-kinda allied with the Nazis, but in more of a "Hey, Hitler said we were cool and he won't attack us. Any idea what's going on down there?" sort of way, then we got today's Demsoc, which I hope is not an abbreviation that is being used by Alt-right jerks because I am getting tired of typing Democratic Socialism every other sentence. And there are whispers of cracks starting over how people deal with immigrants, so if The North should swing back in the other direction, well, it's a 2000-year-old tradition at this point, for what lack of good it does.I kinda wish I heard more detailed analyses from the center and left, because the only two criticisms I hear toward Demsoc as practiced are the suicide rates, and the ethnic homogeity of the Scandinavian countries. (Racists love to bring up that last one, as though it proves anything that can't be explained by culture clash and long histories of oppression. Included here for completeness. ).I will add "but they're kinda small, aren't they?" to that. Canada and the UK aren't quite there, and the UK sounds kinda distopic, leaving Germany and the Netherlands as the primary non-Scandinavian contenders. The Netherlands are also kinda small, and what little I know about Dutch politics and such makes them sound kinda borderline, so the real example that doesn't have the benefit of being small, cold, and away from everyone else is Germany.So how's it going in Germany? I'm on my phone, so will have to add research later. Aiui, Germany doesn't actually have all of those "free food, healthcare, and UBI" features, but is moving in that direction more gracefully than anyone else south of The North Sea. We've got several German members who could comment on how that's going, and I suppose I should actually read the rest of the thread to see if any have.But I will point out one thing: we are NOT in a post-scarcity world where the post-scarcity is being held ba
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Ugh, I saw the title, decided I wanted to avoid the inevitable dumpster-fire, then the weekend hit and I had nothing better to do and I read the first 8 posts and wish I'd just read it in the first place so as not to be so late.@ 8: No True Scotsman No True Scotsman! If every time someone has claimed to attempt something, it immediately devolved into totalitarian atrocities, that does not speak well of the ability to attempt the thing. Communism has been tried, just as theocracy and various religions have been tried. I bring up religion because, 15-ish years ago, the debates were about religion (and Dubya's foreign policy, but that's off topic), and the whole reason anyone knows about the No True Scotsman Fallacy is because those often resulted in one side claiming that such and such christians were wrong or abusive or whatever, and the other responding that those were not True Christians. And, you know what? I read the Gospels, and the latter is correct. It is also irrelevant when talking about things at the societal, cultural, or governmental levels. Scandinavian Democratic Socialism, and Soviet Socialism, both count for / against Socialism, just like witch-burnings and soup kitchens both count against / for Christianity. This is why getting attached to a group identifier is a dangerous idea: you cannot eject the baggage you don't like. If you're lucky, the baggage is outdated or defeated or far less extreme than it sounds—After all, 20th century Communism is gone, and unless you count Operation Iraqi Freedom, the Crusades are long gone, and Islamic Terrorism was always exaggerated after its one big victory against The West™. TBH, this rant is as much on Herseth for puting Socialism on the spot as it is on Jayde for the ... I did say I stopped at post 8, right? Because if there's better defenses later, I haven't reached them yet.@Jayde: the one thing in your first two posts in this thread that really bugged me was how you linked rejection of the Capitalist work-mandate to the implementability of Socialist policies. It's almost a nonsequidor. The question isn't whether you must work for such and such benefits[1], but how such and such benefits are produced and distributed. The complete and utter failure of every Communist government to effectively produce and distribute (their whole schtick!) has done about as much to tarnish their reputations as the brutal dictators, but everyone with any knowledge of recent history has retreated to the Scandinavian style, so I'll drop the references to Communism henceforth.Scandinavia is interesting, historically speaking. Kinda kept to themselves until the fall of Rome, then grew strong from the loot and conquests of the Vikings, then everyone converted to Christianity and Viking was no longer profitable, there was some dabbling in European warfare and imperialism, but never on the scale of the other European nations (well, the Great Northern War might sorta-kinda count?), then those who weren't neutral sorta-kinda allied with the Nazis, but in more of a "Hey, Hitler said we were cool and he won't attack us. Any idea what's going on down there?" sort of way, then we got today's Demsoc, which I hope is not an abbreviation that is being used by Alt-right jerks because I am getting tired of typing Democratic Socialism every other sentence. And there are whispers of cracks starting over how people deal with immigrants, so if The North should swing back in the other direction, well, it's a 2000-year-old tradition at this point, for what lack of good it does.I kinda wish I heard more detailed analyses from the center and left, because the only two criticisms I hear toward Demsoc as practiced are the suicide rates, and the ethnic homogeity of the Scandinavian countries. (Racists love to bring up that last one, as though it proves anything that can't be explained by culture clash and long histories of oppression. Included here for completeness. ).I will add "but they're kinda small, aren't they?" to that. Canada and the UK aren't quite there, and the UK sounds kinda distopic, leaving Germany and the Netherlands as the primary non-Scandinavian contenders. The Netherlands are also kinda small, and what little I know about Dutch politics and such makes them sound kinda borderline, so the real example that doesn't have the benefit of being small, cold, and away from everyone else is Germany.So how's it going in Germany? I'm on my phone, so will have to add research later. Aiui, Germany doesn't actually have all of those "free food, healthcare, and UBI" features, but is moving in that direction more gracefully than anyone else south of The North Sea. We've got several German members who could comment on how that's going, and I suppose I should actually read the rest of the thread to see if any have.But I will point out one thing: we are NOT in a post-scarcity world where the post-scarcity is being held ba
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries I think most people want to be productive, they just have their own ideas on what it means to be productive and this can be difficult to deal with when you need to have a job in order to survive. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428110/#p428110 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries I'm glad that you want to work to provide for yourself. I do too. it's why I went to school, since I can't be a social service worker without the proper accreditation. I hope one day that people will not have to slave at a job for thirty-plus hours a week just to stay alive, but we aren't there yet.And yeah, just for future reference, I'm really, really not a fan of being called out on my apparently bullying nature by people who spit on what I do. That kind of invalidates your right to get mad when I stand my ground, you know? Chances are pretty good that if I see you saying stuff about how I know nothing, or how I'm just an (insert derogatory name for group x that you don't like), or how I'm going to probably destroy families...well, that's not really argument. That's borderline personal attack. And again, I'm not perfect here. I've said some pretty sharp stuff to people from time to time. I'm not blameless. In this case, though, you kinda can't start a fire and then point to someone else and go "See? That guy right there! He did it!" URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428104/#p428104 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries What does that have to do with anything?Can you address the issues with capitalism I brought up with post #13 on page 1?All I know about your argument is that it hinges on the idea that property is a right. I think that if we were technologically automated for resource production there would be no need for property to be a right because all resources necessary would be available. Therefore I think arguing that it should be a right is incomplete. Also, property doesn't even really exist, it's basically just something we accept because of laws, and laws in theory don't really exist and are really upheld by the force of the individuals who run the state, convincing others to fight with them. But I won't go into THAT haunted house in this post. I will say this though, the phantom nature of "property" is probably part of the reason why there's so many problems with people getting hacked with cryptocurrency. Does property really mean anything if its mine to steal? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428102/#p428102 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries What does that have to do with anything?Can you address the issues with capitalism I brought up with post #13 on page 1?All I know about your argument is that it hinges on the idea that property is a right. I think that if we were technologically automated for resource production there would be no need for property to be a right because all resources necessary would be available. Therefore I think arguing that it should be a right is incomplete. Also, property doesn't even really exist, it's basically just something we accept because of laws, and laws in theory don't really exist and are really upheld by the force of the individuals who run the state, convincing others to fight with them. But I won't go into THAT haunted house in this post. I will say this though, the phantom nature of "property" is probably why there's so many problems with people getting hacked with cryptocurrency. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428102/#p428102 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries What does that have to do with anything?Can you address the issues with capitalism I brought up with post #13 on page 1?All I know about your argument is that it hinges on the idea that property is a right. I think that if we were technologically automated for resource production there would be no need for property to be a right because all resources necessary would be available. Therefore I think arguing that it should be a right is incomplete. Also, property doesn't even really exist, it's basically just something we accept because of laws, and laws in theory don't really exist and are really upheld by the force of the individuals who run the state, convincing others to fight with them. But I won't go into THAT haunted house in this post. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428102/#p428102 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries @36 I didn't really want a debate but Jayde started it so that is why we launched in to this. Jayde I will have you know that wile I'm accepting section 8 fore my apartment in witch I will be moving into on may 3 of this year. My eventual goal is to work to provide for my self. I do not like accepting social services. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428095/#p428095 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Thank you very much, Daigonite. Your perspective is refreshing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428094/#p428094 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries hurstseth405 wrote:Yeah Jayde I can't take you seriously when your studying oh lets see "gender theory" Witch is a program invented by the radicals and postmodernists. So yeah like Iron said your smug attitude knows no bounds son. Try living in reality for a change it is pretty fun. Oh and just because I'm not studying social work like every boring blind person doesn't mean I don't know nothing.did you have fun watching the debate lolAll joking aside. Post modernism has nothing to do with socialism/communism/whatever. This video explains this well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1LhcEh8Ms)My whole opinion on the gender thing is just that gender is socially losing its meaning. Gender and sex are relative, although sex is a lot more concrete in regards to biological reproductive roles. Gender though is a complex social-cultural thing that has a lot of factors (such as _expression_, identity, role, sexual orientation ect.). Because of the rise of various waves of feminism, gender roles have been continually challenged. Nowadays its not uncommon for a man to be a stay-at-home dad, even though 100 years ago this was unheard of. Because of this, the idea of what roles are male-female are dissolving. Homosexuals challenge the role that marriage plays in reproduction. Trans people challenge the idea that we have to have an assigned gender identity. The nonbinary movement challenges the structure of gender and there are even people who believe that gender isn't even real, and only treat it as real for others. You could argue that LGBT activism and feminism in the 20th century are connected by the fact that the construct of gender is being challenged from so many angles.A way to think of it in the context of evolution is that not only has our biology evolved, but our social behaviour has evolved as well. We experience gender as real as a result of these socialized behaviours, but because of certain challenges to that structure caused by the rise of human rights, these socialized behaviours are being challenged. That's why its so difficult to understand.Also, it is possible in the distant future that we will be able to reproduce without pregnancy. If this is the case, then biological sex will also face the same fate. Nothing is permanent.There will always be fringe people out there. And honestly if you really want something "logical" you really can't get more "logical" than communism, if anything I think they're too logical...And you know nothing because you don't educate yourself, instead you get your information from people equally misinformed. You can find a lot of books about left politics for free online all over the place. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428017/#p428017 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries hurstseth405 wrote:Yeah Jayde I can't take you seriously when your studying oh lets see "gender theory" Witch is a program invented by the radicals and postmodernists. So yeah like Iron said your smug attitude knows no bounds son. Try living in reality for a change it is pretty fun. Oh and just because I'm not studying social work like every boring blind person doesn't mean I don't know nothing.did you have fun watching the debate lolAll joking aside. Post modernism has nothing to do with socialism/communism/whatever. This video explains this well (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1LhcEh8Ms)My whole opinion on the gender thing is just that gender is socially losing its meaning. Gender and sex are relative, although sex is a lot more concrete in regards to biological reproductive roles. Gender though is a complex social-cultural thing that has a lot of factors (such as _expression_, identity, role, sexual orientation ect.). Because of the rise of various waves of feminism, gender roles have been continually challenged. Nowadays its not uncommon for a man to be a stay-at-home dad, even though 100 years ago this was unheard of. Because of this, the idea of what roles are male-female are dissolving. You could argue that LGBT activism and feminism in the 20th century are connected by the fact that the construct of gender is being challenged from so many angles.A way to think of it in the context of evolution is that not only has our biology evolved, but our social behaviour has evolved as well. We experience gender as real as a result of these socialized behaviours, but because of certain challenges to that structure caused by the rise of human rights, these socialized behaviours are being challenged. That's why its so difficult to understand.Also, it is possible in the distant future that we will be able to reproduce without pregnancy. If this is the case, then biological sex will also face the same fate. Nothing is permanent.There will always be fringe people out there. And honestly if you really want something "logical" you really can't get more "logical" than communism, if anything I think they're too logical...And you know nothing because you don't educate yourself, instead you get your information from people equally misinformed. You can find a lot of books about left politics for free online all over the place. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428017/#p428017 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries I don't have much to say on this topic specificly butjade wrote:so I believe this counts as the pot calling the kettle black Exactly what I was going to say, @ironcross but lmao jade did it before I could so all I can do is do what I am doing right now. I find it very funny and ironic that you call Jade a bully and ironcross wrote:it's literally how you handle each and every singleperson who has a differing viewpoint than you do Might want to go back and read all your posts in almost all the topics that you reply to. I have said this before, and I will say it again, you are outright insulting and rude against people who don't go, quack quack nod head yes yes along with you or with what you say, mostly anyway. Just as an example just from this topic alone, I find this really offencive even though it wasn't directed at me, but if it were I am sure I would be quite well... offended pissed off, or what you will.rude insulting post wrote:Yeah yeah bro, you have a fancy piece of paper or are on the way to getting a fancy piece of paper from a university which is your card to becoming a radicalprogressive. Most of the things you state there simply don't exist. I hope you had fun wasting money on this, as now you will enter the work force andyou will destroy families, Sheesh.@daigonite +1, some good insites and food for thought there@JaceK +1 I wonder the same thing.Grryf URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428015/#p428015 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries hurstseth405 wrote:Jayde it is immoral to steal from people even if you vote to steal from people.someone hasn't read the spook book. no offense but I think it's pretty telling with the bitcoin wallet in the signature and all the moral parading that you aren't addressing the actual problems... Also, property may as well not exist considering how many crypto based controversies there are over exchanges, trades, transactions ect. *Coughs audibly* I'm just saying...And yeah I used to buy into the whole "we are inherently competitive" thing but then I realized, wait a second, no we're not, we have friends who selflessly pick each other up to help compensate for each other. lmao. Like if distance/passports wasn't a problem I could probably find 10 people who would want to live together and we could probably figure something out. I mean, I definitely think regardless of what the government does, the nuclear family is going to start dissolving due to capitalist pressure on the lower classes; and small groups of people are probably going to be the primary residence of people instead of just single families (possibly large families?) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428014/#p428014 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries hurstseth405 wrote:Jayde it is immoral to steal from people even if you vote to steal from people.someone hasn't read the spook book. no offense but I think it's pretty telling with the bitcoin wallet in the signature and all the moral parading that you aren't addressing the actual problems... Also, property may as well not exist considering how many crypto based controversies there are over exchanges, trades, transactions ect. *Coughs audibly* I'm just saying...And yeah I used to buy into the whole "we are inherently competitive" thing but then I realized, wait a second, no we're not, we have friends who selflessly pick each other up to help compensate for each other. lmao. Like if distance/passports wasn't a problem I could probably find 10 people who would want to live together and we could probably figure something out. I mean, I definitely think regardless of what the government does, the nuclear family is going to start dissolving due to capitalist pressure on the lower classes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428014/#p428014 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries The only reason I'm bringing it up is because I find that it's relevant in this case. I'd like to know the other times I've pointed out that ban. I believe the only times I've ever mentioned it before are when someone else has tried suggesting it wasn't merited. I believe it was. That's as far as it goes. I don't have a problem with it. It happened and it's done, and it's not a black mark. It just means when you start talking about how I'm tromping around and amping up things and whatnot, I find it rather ironic. The most charitable thing I can say is that you might have been trying to say "don't do what I've done before you", but that doesn't appear to be the issue.The issue, as I see it, is double standards.You bring up the "same old rhetoric"? Well okay, here's some samey rhetoric for you. It's called tone policing.When people on the right get tired of science, logical discourse and reason, they usually resort to telling those of us on the left that we're being too loud, too pushy. Some of us really are, and I hear that, and I'm right with you. Your threshold is obviously different from mine, and I can respect that, but please understand that I have heard this argument levelled at the left so many times that it's lost nearly all of its meaning. My default position on it now is to dismiss it as tone policing, rather than to honour it as a valid viewpoint. It is a tactic often used by any group, or individual within a group, in order to try and rob their opposition's words of their impact.Imagine how it would feel if on many occasions, you felt like you were making great points, yet all anyone ever seemed to focus on is "you're too angry", or "you're too loud", or "You're too righteous". And maybe on occasion you were one or even all of those things. Sure, it happens. But if you keep getting that flag thrown, it usually -doesn't mean you're responsible. It usually means your opponent would rather attack you and force you to defend yourself on contestable grounds than interact with the meaningful things you said.I'll be direct. Consider this my last defense of the tone-policing argument, until or unless I really and truly go off the high side. I'm not perfect, and I know I have overstepped before, so this is by no means a blanket protection against any future wrongdoing. It simply means that this argument, in specific, the tone argument, is something I will not honour without a very, very good reason from here on out. If you want to argue other points of rhetoric with respect, I can do that. If you want to ignore them, I can do that too. I won't chase you. I won't try and force you into anything. But what I also won't do is continue to fight your fight. If this must be a contest, then I get to choose the terms of gngagement, at least on my side, just as you do on yours.From now on, I'm going to kindly ask all and sundry to remember that, while my accreditation does not by any means make me infallible, it does mean I have some ground to stand on here. If you wouldn't argue law with a lawyer, or you wouldn't argue arrest procedure with a cop, then don't argue social policy with a social worker. Or, if you must do these things, remember to attempt to do it with respect for the individual against whom you have chosen to pit yourself. I promise to do likewise. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428005/#p428005 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries It isn't because you state your opinion that I say you're tromping around like a school yard bully, it's literally how you handle each and every single person who has a differing viewpoint than you do. You attack them with the same old rhetoric each time of being ignorant, not having any academic credentials, and a condescending attitude. Which, to me sounds more like an echo chamber, and don't you want to try to avoid echo chambers? I actually think you're not a bad person, you just have this thing going on where you crank everything to 50. It's like you're a mixer and someone's passing audio through you where they crank the preamps, put the faders all the way up, and now the mic is feeding back into the system because the monitors are picking it up clear as day. That's you right now, or at least, how I perceive you. Also, don't you just love to keep bringing up my ban, is this what, the fourth or fifth time so far? I mean, you can keep doing it if you want to, I'm not especially bothered, but it does seem as though you are a little fixated on it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/428000/#p428000 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries I'm sorry you feel that stating opinions is tromping all over the schoolyard like a bully, so to speak. I'd just like to point out, however, that I'm not the one with a previous ban for doubling down on such behaviour, so I believe this counts as the pot calling the kettle black.I, too, have friends from many different backgrounds and who cover most forms of adversity and privilege. I, too, recognize them as individuals, and rather than try to pretend we're all the same - we aren't - I face the facts. Our lived experiences differ, so the single best thing anyone can do is listen. And that includes them, since sometimes I have good things to say too. When you can spare a moment to think instead of acting with your gut reaction and spewing party rhetoric, give a thought to the concepts of blindness and consciousness where they apply to race, gender and orientation, just for starters. There's a world of difference between those two concepts.As far as the contention that I'm waving my academic credentials in your face, please consider this. As far as I know, the rest of you do not have any such accreditation. This means that, in these very specific grounds, I have the advantage of study and perhaps experience as well. When you try to argue with me about this, it's a little bit like arguing law with someone in law school. It doesn't mean you're wrong by default, but it does mean the burden of proof is on you to disprove what I say. I, on the other hand, take that up a notch. I see ignorance, I challenge ignorance, because it's a very powerful tool. Make people think.You can say whatever you want. You're never going to be punished or threatened for expressing a right-ish agenda. I don't like it, but that's the glory of freedom of speech. I'll call it out as a user when I think it might hurt people - and that's why I do, by the way, but I do my best to stay polite - but if you expect to say what you want without being challenged, that's another thing. This means we obviously have every right to challenge or disprove or call one another out. I'm good with that if you are. But when we start arguing point for point, I daresay my background should give me something to go on. To put a shoe on the other foot, I am willing to hear you out, but why should I, or anyone else for that matter, take your word over the word of someone who's living it?We're not talking about straight-up racism or bigotry in this topic, so that particular "wrecking-ball" simply doesn't apply here. I tend to agree that some on the left can be very shrill about such labels, using them as a blanket to protect themselves from active discussion. They do this because frankly, trotting out the same old arguments to deaf ears is really, really frustrating, but that doesn't make it right. I am not such a person, by the way, so please operate in accordance. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427998/#p427998 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries ironcross32 wrote:@Jayde, well man, all your arguments are predicated on the fact that the other person is wrong, ignorant, or simply haven't studied as much as you have, so forgive me if I can't take you seriously, especially with your condescending attitude I've seen you put on display towards multiple people. Also, while you may be well versed in the world of academia, it doesn't sound like you have a lot of real life experience. I wish you would see the damage your party is doing. I wish that you would see the dichotomy that exists between their public image and what actually goes on. It's funny how the two biggest insults that get thrown at conservatives are homo/transphobic and biggot/racist. That used to bother me, because I don't consider myself either, but it doesn't anymore, because it's just the left coming in like a wrecking ball trying to smash our house down, which our collective indomitable spirit will not allow to happen. And yes I do disbelieve entirely in gender theory and gender studies. To me, there are two genders. That doesn't mean that I've ever gone up to a trans person and said hey, you suck, you're broken and despicable. I don't judge people on how they choose to live their life, but I am tired of this pc culture and seeing people put they/them, she/her and he/him or whatever else after their names. If you want to know something about someone, ask it of them. But still, that's my personal opinion, I don't go to them and say hey, quit that, it's annoying. The left though, they're the real racists, and the way they go about it is sneaky as hell. They will literally try to covertly undermine any work that would bring people closer together, and when they use labels, and make racism such a hot button issue, what's that supposed to do. I have African American, Asian, and Latino friends. I don't go around talking about them putting that info first. That's racist, that's seeing the color of their skin, or some elements of their culture as something to identify them by. It would be like sighted people who see us as nothing but the blind X, where X is something you do, like a career or hobby. Your race shouldn't entirely define you, and it shouldn't be used as a way to undermine your freedom. But hey, I guess I've really just wasted a bunch of time. What I really want you to do is quit tromping all over this forum acting like the school yard bully, which is what you've been doing for quite some time.Unfortunately, that side of the isle all too often doesn't see past their own assumptions. I've said this before, but they seem to think they have the moral high ground and believe themselves to be saints who should impose their values upon the rest of us. I'm not saying that all of the left thinks this way, but this sort of puritanism seems to be the dominant trend, so much so that they often end up attacking dissidents within their own ranks for heresy; and let's not even start on who they consider to be "far-right" or "alt-right". That tent seems to be expanding every day. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427997/#p427997 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries @Jayde, well man, all your arguments are predicated on the fact that the other person is wrong, ignorant, or simply haven't studied as much as you have, so forgive me if I can't take you seriously, especially with your condescending attitude I've seen you put on display towards multiple people. Also, while you may be well versed in the world of academia, it doesn't sound like you have a lot of real life experience. I wish you would see the damage your party is doing. I wish that you would see the dichotomy that exists between their public image and what actually goes on. It's funny how the two biggest insults that get thrown at conservatives are homo/transphobic and biggot/racist. That used to bother me, because I don't consider myself either, but it doesn't anymore, because it's just the left coming in like a wrecking ball trying to smash our house down, which our collective indomitable spirit will not allow to happen. And yes I do disbelieve entirely in gender theory and gender studies. To me, there are two genders. That doesn't mean that I've ever gone up to a trans person and said hey, you suck, you're broken and despicable. I don't judge people on how they choose to live their life, but I am tired of this pc culture and seeing people put they/them, she/her and he/him or whatever else after their names. If you want to know something about someone, ask it of them. But still, that's my personal opinion, I don't go to them and say hey, quit that, it's annoying. The left though, they're the real racists, and the way they go about it is sneaky as hell. They will literally try to covertly undermine any work that would bring people closer together, and when they use labels, and make racism such a hot button issue, what's that supposed to do. I have African American, Asian, and Latino friends. I don't go around talking about them putting that info first. That's racist, that's seeing the color of their skin, or some elements of their culture as something to identify them by. It would be like sighted people who see us as nothing but the blind X, where X is something you do, like a career or hobby. Your race shouldn't entirely define you, and it shouldn't be used as a way to undermine your freedom. But hey, I guess I've really just wasted a bunch of time. What I really want you to do is quit tromping all over this forum acting like the school yard bully, which is what you've been doing for quite some time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427996/#p427996 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Now, Nicklas, I'll deal with you:I am dismissing Ironcross's opinion. I am telling him that if he thinks social workers just destroy families, he's entitled to believe that, but he's flying in the face of what I do. If I were to say all forum users named Ironcross are jerks and all forum users named Nicklas are foolish, you'd probably say I'm not being fair...and of course, I'm not, and thus would never say and mean such a thing. If Ironcross wants to say that his experience of social workers is that they're destructive, well and good. I'm sorry as hell that's been the case. If he wants to basically say that he thinks all social workers do this? He's starting to really stretch, so I'm absolutely going to step in and say "Actually, no, that's not how that's going to work in this case". At that point, at least where I am concerned, I have removed Ironcross's rational reason to dismiss what I say based on those specific grounds only. If he does it, he does it irrespective of logic and due consideration. I am not moderating him or telling him that he's going to be punished if he doesn't stop; I'm telling him that his willingness to put his own experience above the stated aim and intent of someone else means I'm not going to take him seriously (again, on those very specific grounds) if he wants to persist in that delusion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427983/#p427983 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Now, Nicklas, I'll deal with you:I am dismissing Ironcross's opinion. I am telling him that if he thinks social workers just destroy families, he's entitled to believe that, but he's flying in the face of what I do. If I were to say all people named Brandon are jerks and all people named Nicklas are foolish, you'd probably say I'm not being fair...and of course, I'm not, and thus would never say and mean such a thing. If Brandon wants to say that his experience of social workers is that they're destructive, well and good. I'm sorry as hell that's been the case. If he wants to basically say that he thinks all social workers do this? He's starting to really stretch, so I'm absolutely going to step in and say "Actually, no, that's not how that's going to work in this case". At that point, at least where I am concerned, I have removed Ironcross's rational reason to dismiss what I say based on those specific grounds. If he does it, he does it irrespective of logic and due consideration. I am not moderating him or telling him that he's going to be punished if he doesn't stop; I'm telling him that his experience means I'm not going to take him seriously (again, on those very specific grounds) if he wants to persist in that delusion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427983/#p427983 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Now, Nicklas, I'll deal with you:I am dismissing Ironcross's opinion. I am telling him that if he thinks social workers just destroy families, he's entitled to believe that, but he's flying in the face of what I do. If I were to say all people named Brandon are jerks and all people named Nicklas are foolish, you'd probably say I'm not being fair...and of course, I'm not, and thus would never say and mean such a thing. If Brandon wants to say that his experience of social workers is that they're destructive, well and good. I'm sorry as hell that's been the case. If he wants to basically say that he thinks all social workers do this? He's starting to really stretch, so I'm absolutely going to step in and say "Actually, no, that's not how that's going to work in this case". At that point, at least where I am concerned, I have removed Ironcross's right to dismiss what I say based on those specific grounds. If he does it, he does it irrespective of logic and due consideration. I am not moderating him or telling him that he's going to be punished if he doesn't stop; I'm telling him that his experience means I'm not going to take him seriously (again, on those very specific grounds) if he wants to persist in that delusion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427983/#p427983 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Again, I never said you didn't know things. I note that I am not attempting to invalidate your experience.You, on the other hand, keep trying to dismiss the basis for my study. Why do you feel the need to do this? Does it please you? Does it validate you to try and knock someone else down? If so, you're failing miserably at least with half of it, because I am, in fact, rather bolstered by your continued attacks. Every word you say on the subject just convinces me that I'm right all over again.You are using buzzwords without apparent thought. Why are socialism, post-modern and radical dirty words on your tongue? What precisely makes gender theory a made-up construct?Funny fact though: gender, in and of itself, is kind of made-up, in the sense that it is a social construct, which means that yes, it was created. It was not intrinsic...so congratulations for validating gender studies. Gender studies, in essence, suggests that gender is a social construct, rather than just biological male/female sex. There are literally thousands of scientists, sociologists, psychologists, doctors, clinicians of various stripes, psychiatrists and other experts who agree with me. These people, if called upon to do so, can cite thousands of studies, essays, anecdotes, case studies, people (living and dead), scientific findings, progress milestones, psychological trials and heaven knows what else to back up the science, to reinforce the point that the sex you're born with does not have to coincide with the gender you are assigned. And on the other side, we have you...well, no, that's not entirely fair. We have you, alongside a shrill minority who has less science, less findings and less facts by the hour. A shrill minority whose platform looks a great deal like an ice cube in a pot of boiling water. If I were an outsider, I know who I'd trust. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427982/#p427982 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Hi @Jaydeeven though, some os us aren't studying the same as you do, doesn't mean we aren't allowed to disagree with you.btw: I find it funny that you in post 17 (in your moderation) moderates against borderline personal attacks:> Where, exactly, is your similar accreditation, the one that entitles you to invalidate my experience in the manner that you have? I mean, disagree with me if you want to, but it ought to stop there. You'll note that I'm not saying anything like, "You're just an x. What could you possibly know"; that would be extremely rude, and plenty of people know a lot of things.And then in post 25 you practiced the same behavior you moderated against, towards Ironcross> If you are not a member of my program, then you do not have the knowledge I have. You do not know what we're doing. As such, any condemnation of my actions, my state of mind or the impact I am likely to have is sheer ignorance on your part.And just a side note: We, constituted by our basic democratic rights, are well within bounds to both condemn your actions and disagree with you as much as we like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427981/#p427981 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Hi @Jaydeeven though, some os us aren't studying the same as you doesn't mean we aren't allow to disagree with you.btw: I find it funny that you I post 17 (in your moderation):> Where, exactly, is your similar accreditation, the one that entitles you to invalidate my experience in the manner that you have? I mean, disagree with me if you want to, but it ought to stop there. You'll note that I'm not saying anything like, "You're just an x. What could you possibly know"; that would be extremely rude, and plenty of people know a lot of things.And then in post 25 you do the same to Ironcross> If you are not a member of my program, then you do not have the knowledge I have. You do not know what we're doing. As such, any condemnation of my actions, my state of mind or the impact I am likely to have is sheer ignorance on your part.And just a side note: We, constituted by our basic democratic rights, are well within bounds to both condemn your actions and disagree with you as much as we like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427981/#p427981 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Yeah Jayde I can't take you seriously when your studying oh lets see "gender theory" Witch is a program invented by the radicals and postmodernists. So yeah like Iron said your smug attitude knows no bounds son. Try living in reality for a change it is pretty fun. Oh and just because I'm not studying social work like every boring blind person doesn't mean I don't know nothing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427980/#p427980 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Ironcross, I'm sorry you feel that way. You're wrong, of course, but I won't expect you to accept that. This isn't wildness, it's compassion. None of you on this forum are my clients, and so I feel more than capable of speaking strongly here, so long as I don't venture into trying to knock you down and hurt you. I'm endeavouring to stop well short of that, because as frustrated as I might get, that doesn't entitle me to treat you badly. When dealing with clients, I will, of course, be much more careful.Fun fact: one of the core tenets of my entire program is to listen. Listen to clients, their friends, their families, their stories. Do not automatically assume that you know what's best or that you have the whole picture. Most of the time you'll be wrong, and some of the time, your mistakes will hurt people. I am not just writing dusty essays in a library. I am taking instruction from people who have been in the business for decades, and who speak very frankly about the damage that social workers have done in the past, back when they used to be a lot more closely aligned with the medical model, and stigmatized those needing help, and made sweeping decisions without listening to the needs of clients. If you are not a member of my program, then you do not have the knowledge I have. You do not know what we're doing. As such, any condemnation of my actions, my state of mind or the impact I am likely to have is sheer ignorance on your part. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427953/#p427953 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Yeah yeah bro, you have a fancy piece of paper or are on the way to getting a fancy piece of paper from a university which is your card to becoming a radical progressive. Most of the things you state there simply don't exist. I hope you had fun wasting money on this, as now you will enter the work force and you will destroy families, as social workers almost always do. Your arrogance knows no bounds, and I think you're losing your grip on your emotions, if only slightly, I see you becoming more wild, and I don't think you can hold it together for much longer. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427948/#p427948 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries 20, what do you think about governments slashing entitlement programs, programs people are entitled to because of they paid into them? Isn't this a form of theft?Well I can talk about my experiences in Turkey at least, which does implement several social policies. In Turkey, education is free in public universities, meaning no tuition. Moreover, people with disabilities are garanteed a scholarship regardless of family income, wich isn't great, but will reduce relyance on family members. The scholarship is doubled in the masters, and the doctoral level as well. You also can receive it when completing a degree abroad, at which point the money is calculated based on living costs.Similarly, working people are enrolled in manditory health ensurance, which covers 80% of all prescriptions. This is 100% for expensive medicines like cancer drugs and treatments. Moreover, in emergency departments, even private ones cannot charge you for any procedure done there. The ensurance is billed for the charges. If you go the emergency room as a result of a traffic accident, the the car ensurance of the person at fault picks up all the bills.For blindness specific stuff, there was a GPS enabled phone distributed free of charge, which wasn't useful due to the incorrect feedback given by early testters. Also, braille displays, specificly the Orbit display will be distributed to blind elementary and high school students, and will be taken back on high school graduation. There were some tablets distributed to teachers and in elementary and high schools, but they weren't accessible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427946/#p427946 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries 21, maybe something in the psychi due to the cold war? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427947/#p427947 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries 20, what do you think about governments slashing entitlement programs, programs people are entitled to because of they paid into them? Isn't this a form of theft?Well I can talk about my experiences in Turkey at least, which does implement several social policies. In Turkey, education is free in public universities, meaning no tuition. Moreover, people with disabilities are garanteed a scholarship regardless of family income, wich isn't great, but will reduce relyance on family members. The scholarship is doubled in the masters, and the doctoral level as well. You also can receive it when completing a degree abroad, at which point the money is calculated based on living costs.Similarly, working people are enrolled in manditory health ensurance, which covers 80% of all prescriptions. This is 100% for expensive medicines like cancer drugs and treatments. Moreover, in emergency departments, even private ones cannot charge you for any procedure done there. The ensurance is billed for the charges. If you go the emergency room as a result of a traffic accident, the the car ensurance of the person at fault picks up all the bills.For blindness specific stuff, there was a GPS enabled phone distributed free of charge, which wasn't useful due to the incorrect feedback given by early testters. Also, braille displays, specificly the Orbit display will be distributed to blind elementary and high school students, and will be taken back on high school graduation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427946/#p427946 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Gonna jump in here and ask thisWhy is America (stereotypically) deathly afraid of socialism. Why, exactly, do the loudest voices decry it and instantly equate it to communism? I meanlet's take socialism piece by piece, and equate it to various nations around the world, shall we and total up how 'socialist' countries are?I'm sorryI'm just so tired of the loud mouthed US politicians fearmongering about socialism at every turn as if they believe socialism = Soviet era communism and it must be destroyed, like this is still 1965 and there's the fear of the spread of Russian communism URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427944/#p427944 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Jayde it is immoral to steal from people even if you vote to steal from people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427932/#p427932 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Jayde its called stepping out of your bubble. I used to be a hardened progressive like your self. But most of the stuff you just said that your studying is post modern drivel other than politics. Study the slow march through the Univirsitys and you will understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427930/#p427930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Jayde I don't disagree with you that some parts of capitalism is bad take facebook and twitter how large they have gotten. But the idea that well Socialism hasn't been tried by us and so there for every other country that has tried it didn't do it right. Its a wet dream it will never happen. Lets look at your countrys health care if you want a example. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427927/#p427927 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Someone is going to finally stand up to you and if not anybody else its going to be me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427926/#p427926 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Someone is going to finally stand up to you and if not anybody else its going to be me. Jayde read my lips. Go. Live. In. Fucking. Reality. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427926/#p427926 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Oh and by the way your degree doesn't make you a expert. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427925/#p427925 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Its time someone stands up to you and its going to be me so go sit in your corner and cry. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427924/#p427924 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Jayde what are you going to do to the people who don't give into your socialest fanticy? Oh right your a college person so you must no better than the people who live in reality. And no I don't care that your a mod you don't scare me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427923/#p427923 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Moderation:I'm dropping a caution for this. it's borderline personal attack.1. I am a social service work student. I have spent the better part of the last sixteen months studying politics, social structures, privilege and oppression, group dynamics, sociology, psychology, gender theory, family dynamics and a host of other things. I am planning to be a social worker, and I consider myself an ally of all sorts of causes. Telling me to shut up because I know nothing is foolish; I'm studying this in school and have plenty of intelligence to sort out fact from fiction. I am, in other words, someone who has devoted a great deal of time to the study of these concepts, including hundreds of hours of conversation with experts in the field and hundreds of hours of personal research. Where, exactly, is your similar accreditation, the one that entitles you to invalidate my experience in the manner that you have? I mean, disagree with me if you want to, but it ought to stop there. You'll note that I'm not saying anything like, "You're just an x. What could you possibly know"; that would be extremely rude, and plenty of people know a lot of things.2. Can you point me at where I said that not everyone can be an artist? Better question: how is this even relevant?3. Can you point me at the bit where I said "ra ra socialism today!" or some other equivalent? Because what I'm pretty sure I said was that although I think it's a great idea - and I do, it's got a ton of benefits - it's also not going to hurry up and step in place tomorrow. It can't. We're not ready yet.The reason you're getting a caution for this is because there are far, far better ways to disagree with someone, short of insulting them about their lived experience. You do not have the right to tell anyone that they know nothing unless you are prepared to back yourself up. If you can credibly support that statement, I will retract the caution and apologize personally.Until then, please demonstrate more tact. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427876/#p427876 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Not every one can be a artist Jayde. Stop living in fanticy land and maybe start living in damn reality it might do you some good. I didn't want a debate only first hand accounts. Maybe Jayde you shouldn't comment on topics you no nothing about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427873/#p427873 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Uh, no, to the last post. Just. No. That's borderline offensive, right there.I want socialism one day (not tomorrow, for reasons Daigonite pointed out well) because it works, and because capitalism is rotten at its core. Technology can't support it yet, but we're going that way. I think we need to stop being afraid of automating tasks and start embracing things which give the average person more time to do what they wish. I promise you, most of them will still probably do useful things. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427864/#p427864 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal opinion is that I guess I have to unload now, lol.Here's some of the flaws in capitalism:- Money doesn't really accurately reflect value of labour. For example, lets say you have 10 lead developers on each important team and their wage is no more than 5 million dollars combined. While a CEO could be replaced, despite being risky, the value of the developers is probably a lot more intregral to the success of the company because that entire sector of the company could fail without the knowledge being passed down properly. So if one of the leads decided to leave, they would be in a much stickier situation than the CEO. Especially if all the leads left. But the CEO still gets paid many more times the value than these 10 developers combined - is that really justified?- to elaborate on the first point, money doesn't reflect labour at all with things like rent, investment, IP or nowadays, cryptocurrency. Many of the wealthiest people didn't really innovate anything at all (true for all those except IP). Also, notice all of those things require the ability to make prior investment, that means that those who are in poverty will have a much harder time being able to make income through passive means.- the idea that capitalism leads to innovation is inherently flawed. First, its important to point out that innovation occured before the existence of capitalism. Second, it actually stiffles most innovation by weakening the workforce with repetitive work. It encourages the consumption of media that are based on what will sell rather than something that makes people think, so over time, things become more and more meaningless. This kills innovation. Under capitalism, the motivation isn't to create, but rather to escape the frustration and misery of pointless work. Third, because under capitalism products must survive market competition, over iterations, diversity dissolves and monopolies form. Innovation is focused around surviving in the market rather than producing actual meaningful innovations that are useful to consumers - it's just that in ideal conditions they correlate much more strongly.- Capitalism directly interferes with the direction that technology is going. Accessibility in technology is a good example of how capitalism and the spread of accessibility are inherently conflicting ideas, and that JAWS thread I made is a good example of this. However, the problem extends far beyond just accessibility. We are seeing that social media being centralized around corporate control is both encouraging blanket censorship and privatized control of technology. Because of capitalism, we can't use the immense power of the internet to share our code and make essentially the best software possible - this code hoarding slows down progress. And really, the only reason why its done this way is so that programmers can survive. Is this really necessary?- To build on the last point, Capitalism interferes directly with automation. Why don't we automate many of the tasks that we have people working? Because if they don't work, they will starve. One major problem with communism in the 20th century is that human automation isn't practical; but technology can be seen as an extention of humanity. If technology is able to progressively automate more and more necessary production, then what need is there for work at all? Humanity can focus on different matters that have more to do with what they want to create, such as arts/communications/ect. Technology and automation work very well with the propogation of ideas but interferes directly with capitalism.If we used technology to automate agriculture for example, we would have no need for thousands of workers, but because we are dependent on an economy, we can't do this even if the technology existed, because it would destablize other sectors that are not automized yet.- IMHO, using technology, humanity can slowly transition safely towards fully automation production, allowing people to focus more on communication and propagation. Essentially I view this as a transhumanist step towards eusociality. Right now, capitalism is one of the biggest things in the way of actually reaching this goal.These are really not things that I think are acceptable and people shouldn't be looking at the situation like a dichotomy between capitalism and socialism/communism. In my opinion the biggest problems that socialism faces is the problems that are inherent to statehood, and how to maintain production while technology catches up. If technology is suitable I find literally no excuse to not embrace non-state communism, but I think that trying to put this in place now is hasty and honestly ridiculous. I have a really unusual position on the matter that I don't really want to get into but I think this helps illustrate a wider image of the problem - I don't want to encourage people to think like me, but rather to think about the problem from their own
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries A lot of the young want Socilism I would think because of all the student debt they ract up but then again I would say that is there own fault and the banks shouldn't be loaning money to young people who might never pay it back. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427839/#p427839 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal opinion is that I guess I have to unload now, lol.Here's some of the flaws in capitalism:- Money doesn't really accurately reflect value of labour. For example, lets say you have 10 lead developers on each important team and their wage is no more than 5 million dollars combined. While a CEO could be replaced, despite being risky, the value of the developers is probably a lot more intregral to the success of the company because that entire sector of the company could fail without the knowledge being passed down properly. So if one of the leads decided to leave, they would be in a much stickier situation than the CEO. Especially if all the leads left. But the CEO still gets paid many more times the value than these 10 developers combined - is that really justified?- to elaborate on the first point, money doesn't reflect labour at all with things like rent, investment, IP or nowadays, cryptocurrency. Many of the wealthiest people didn't really innovate anything at all (true for all those except IP). Also, notice all of those things require the ability to make prior investment, that means that those who are in poverty will have a much harder time being able to make income through passive means.- the idea that capitalism leads to innovation is inherently flawed. First, its important to point out that innovation occured before the existence of capitalism. Second, it actually stiffles most innovation by weakening the workforce with repetitive work. It encourages the consumption of media that are based on what will sell rather than something that makes people think, so over time, things become more and more meaningless. This kills innovation. Under capitalism, the motivation isn't to create, but rather to escape the frustration and misery of pointless work. Third, because under capitalism products must survive market competition, over iterations, diversity dissolves and monopolies form. Innovation is focused around surviving in the market rather than producing actual meaningful innovations that are useful to consumers - it's just that in ideal conditions they correlate much more strongly.- Capitalism directly interferes with the direction that technology is going. Accessibility in technology is a good example of how capitalism and the spread of accessibility are inherently conflicting ideas, and that JAWS thread I made is a good example of this. However, the problem extends far beyond just accessibility. We are seeing that social media being centralized around corporate control is both encouraging blanket censorship and privatized control of technology. Because of capitalism, we can't use the immense power of the internet to share our code and make essentially the best software possible - this code hoarding slows down progress. And really, the only reason why its done this way is so that programmers can survive. Is this really necessary?- To build on the last point, Capitalism interferes directly with automation. Why don't we automate many of the tasks that we have people working? Because if they don't work, they will starve. One major problem with communism in the 20th century is that human automation isn't practical; but technology can be seen as an extention of humanity. If technology is able to progressively automate more and more necessary production, then what need is there for work at all? Humanity can focus on different matters that have more to do with what they want to create, such as arts/communications/ect. Technology and automation work very well with the propogation of ideas but interferes directly with capitalism.If we used technology to automate agriculture for example, we would have no need for thousands of workers, but because we are dependent on an economy, we can't do this even if the technology existed, because it would destablize other sectors that are not automized yet.- IMHO, using technology, humanity can slowly transition safely towards fully automation production, allowing people to focus more on communication and propagation. Essentially I view this as a transhumanist step towards eusociality. Right now, capitalism is one of the biggest things in the way of actually reaching this goal.These are really not things that I think are acceptable and people shouldn't be looking at the situation like a dichotomy between capitalism and socialism/communism. In my opinion the biggest problems that socialism faces is the problems that are inherent to statehood, and how to maintain production while technology catches up. If technology is suitable I find literally no excuse to not embrace non-state communism, but I think that trying to put this in place now is hasty and honestly ridiculous. I have a really unusual position on the matter that I don't really want to get into but I think this helps illustrate a wider image of the problem - I don't want to encourage people to think like me, but rather to think about the problem from their own
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal opinion is that I guess I have to unload now, lol.Here's some of the flaws in capitalism:- Money doesn't really accurately reflect value of labour. For example, lets say you have 10 lead developers on each important team and their wage is no more than 5 million dollars combined. While a CEO could be replaced, despite being risky, the value of the developers is probably a lot more intregral to the success of the company because that entire sector of the company could fail without the knowledge being passed down properly. So if one of the leads decided to leave, they would be in a much stickier situation than the CEO. Especially if all the leads left. But the CEO still gets paid many more times the value than these 10 developers combined - is that really justified?- to elaborate on the first point, money doesn't reflect labour at all with things like rent, investment, IP or nowadays, cryptocurrency. Many of the wealthiest people didn't really innovate anything at all (true for all those except IP). Also, notice all of those things require the ability to make prior investment, that means that those who are in poverty will have a much harder time being able to make income through passive means.- the idea that capitalism leads to innovation is inherently flawed. First, its important to point out that innovation occured before the existence of capitalism. Second, it actually stiffles most innovation by weakening the workforce with repetitive work. It encourages the consumption of media that are based on what will sell rather than something that makes people think, so over time, things become more and more meaningless. This kills innovation. Under capitalism, the motivation isn't to create, but rather to escape the frustration and misery of pointless work. Third, because under capitalism products must survive market competition, over iterations, diversity dissolves and monopolies form.- Capitalism directly interferes with the direction that technology is going. Accessibility in technology is a good example of how capitalism and the spread of accessibility are inherently conflicting ideas, and that JAWS thread I made is a good example of this. However, the problem extends far beyond just accessibility. We are seeing that social media being centralized around corporate control is both encouraging blanket censorship and privatized control of technology. Because of capitalism, we can't use the immense power of the internet to share our code and make essentially the best software possible - this code hoarding slows down progress. And really, the only reason why its done this way is so that programmers can survive. Is this really necessary?- To build on the last point, Capitalism interferes directly with automation. Why don't we automate many of the tasks that we have people working? Because if they don't work, they will starve. One major problem with communism in the 20th century is that human automation isn't practical; but technology can be seen as an extention of humanity. If technology is able to progressively automate more and more necessary production, then what need is there for work at all? Humanity can focus on different matters that have more to do with what they want to create, such as arts/communications/ect. Technology and automation work very well with the propogation of ideas but interferes directly with capitalism.If we used technology to automate agriculture for example, we would have no need for thousands of workers, but because we are dependent on an economy, we can't do this even if the technology existed, because it would destablize other sectors that are not automized yet.- IMHO, using technology, humanity can slowly transition safely towards fully automation production, allowing people to focus more on communication and propagation. Essentially I view this as a transhumanist step towards eusociality. Right now, capitalism is one of the biggest things in the way of actually reaching this goal.These are really not things that I think are acceptable and people shouldn't be looking at the situation like a dichotomy between capitalism and socialism/communism. In my opinion the biggest problems that socialism faces is the problems that are inherent to statehood, and how to maintain production while technology catches up. If technology is suitable I find literally no excuse to not embrace non-state communism, but I think that trying to put this in place now is hasty and honestly ridiculous. I have a really unusual position on the matter that I don't really want to get into but I think this helps illustrate a wider image of the problem - I don't want to encourage people to think like me, but rather to think about the problem from their own perspective to offer more meaningful input, because imho late stage capitalism is a serious problem that needs solving regardless of communism or not. Also, I think anyone trying to start a 20th century
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal opinion is that I guess I have to unload now, lol.Here's some of the flaws in capitalism:- Money doesn't really accurately reflect value of labour. For example, lets say you have 10 lead developers on each important team and their wage is no more than 5 million dollars combined. While a CEO could be replaced, despite being risky, the value of the developers is probably a lot more intregral to the success of the company because that entire sector of the company could fail without the knowledge being passed down properly. So if one of the leads decided to leave, they would be in a much stickier situation than the CEO. Especially if all the leads left. But the CEO still gets paid many more times the value than these 10 developers combined - is that really justified?- to elaborate on the first point, money doesn't reflect labour at all with things like rent, investment, IP or nowadays, cryptocurrency. Many of the wealthiest people didn't really innovate anything at all. Also, notice all of those things require the ability to make prior investment, that means that those who are in poverty will have a much harder time being able to make income through passive means.- the idea that capitalism leads to innovation is inherently flawed. First, its important to point out that innovation occured before the existence of capitalism. Second, it actually stiffles most innovation by weakening the workforce with repetitive work. It encourages the consumption of media that are based on what will sell rather than something that makes people think, so over time, things become more and more meaningless. This kills innovation. Under capitalism, the motivation isn't to create, but rather to escape the frustration and misery of pointless work. Third, because under capitalism products must survive market competition, over iterations, diversity dissolves and monopolies form.- Capitalism directly interferes with the direction that technology is going. Accessibility in technology is a good example of how capitalism and the spread of accessibility are inherently conflicting ideas, and that JAWS thread I made is a good example of this. However, the problem extends far beyond just accessibility. We are seeing that social media being centralized around corporate control is both encouraging blanket censorship and privatized control of technology. Because of capitalism, we can't use the immense power of the internet to share our code and make essentially the best software possible - this code hoarding slows down progress. And really, the only reason why its done this way is so that programmers can survive. Is this really necessary?- To build on the last point, Capitalism interferes directly with automation. Why don't we automate many of the tasks that we have people working? Because if they don't work, they will starve. One major problem with communism in the 20th century is that human automation isn't practical; but technology can be seen as an extention of humanity. If technology is able to progressively automate more and more necessary production, then what need is there for work at all? Humanity can focus on different matters that have more to do with what they want to create, such as arts/communications/ect. Technology and automation work very well with the propogation of ideas but interferes directly with capitalism.If we used technology to automate agriculture for example, we would have no need for thousands of workers, but because we are dependent on an economy, we can't do this even if the technology existed, because it would destablize other sectors that are not automized yet.- IMHO, using technology, humanity can slowly transition safely towards fully automation production, allowing people to focus more on communication and propagation. Essentially I view this as a transhumanist step towards eusociality. Right now, capitalism is one of the biggest things in the way of actually reaching this goal.These are really not things that I think are acceptable and people shouldn't be looking at the situation like a dichotomy between capitalism and socialism/communism. In my opinion the biggest problems that socialism faces is the problems that are inherent to statehood, and how to maintain production while technology catches up. If technology is suitable I find literally no excuse to not embrace non-state communism, but I think that trying to put this in place now is hasty and honestly ridiculous. I have a really unusual position on the matter that I don't really want to get into but I think this helps illustrate a wider image of the problem - I don't want to encourage people to think like me, but rather to think about the problem from their own perspective to offer more meaningful input, because imho late stage capitalism is a serious problem that needs solving regardless of communism or not. Also, I think anyone trying to start a 20th century revolution in the modern era needs
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal opinion is that I guess I have to unload now, lol.Here's some of the flaws in capitalism:- Money doesn't really accurately reflect value of labour. For example, lets say you have 10 lead developers on each important team and their wage is no more than 5 million dollars combined. While a CEO could be replaced, despite being risky, the value of the developers is probably a lot more intregral to the success of the company because that entire sector of the company could fail without the knowledge being passed down properly. So if one of the leads decided to leave, they would be in a much stickier situation than the CEO. Especially if all the leads left. But the CEO still gets paid many more times the value than these 10 developers combined - is that really justified?- to elaborate on the first point, money doesn't reflect labour at all with things like rent, investment, IP or nowadays, cryptocurrency. Many of the wealthiest people didn't really innovate anything at all. Also, notice all of those things require the ability to make prior investment, that means that those who are in poverty will have a much harder time being able to make income through passive means.- the idea that capitalism leads to innovation is inherently flawed. First, its important to point out that innovation occured before the existence of capitalism. Second, it actually stiffles most innovation by weakening the workforce with repetitive work. It encourages the consumption of media that are based on what will sell rather than something that makes people think, so over time, things become more and more meaningless. This kills innovation. Under capitalism, the motivation isn't to create, but rather to escape the frustration and misery of pointless work. Third, because under capitalism products must survive market competition, over iterations, diversity dissolves and monopolies form.- Capitalism directly interferes with the direction that technology is going. Accessibility in technology is a good example of how capitalism and the spread of accessibility are inherently conflicting ideas, and that JAWS thread I made is a good example of this. However, the problem extends far beyond just accessibility. We are seeing that social media being centralized around corporate control is both encouraging blanket censorship and privatized control of technology. Because of capitalism, we can't use the immense power of the internet to share our code and make essentially the best software possible - this code hoarding slows down progress. And really, the only reason why its done this way is so that programmers can survive. Is this really necessary?- To build on the last point, Capitalism interferes directly with automation. Why don't we automate many of the tasks that we have people working? Because if they don't work, they will starve. One major problem with communism in the 20th century is that human automation isn't practical; but technology can be seen as an extention of humanity. If technology is able to progressively automate more and more necessary production, then what need is there for work at all? Humanity can focus on different matters that have more to do with what they want to create, such as arts/communications/ect. Technology and automation work very well with the propogation of ideas but interferes directly with capitalism.If we used technology to automate agriculture for example, we would have no need for thousands of workers, but because we are dependent on an economy, we can't do this even if the technology existed, because it would destablize other sectors that are not automized yet.- IMHO, using technology, humanity can slowly transition safely towards fully automation production, allowing people to focus more on communication and propagation. Essentially I view this as a transhumanist step towards eusociality. Right now, capitalism is one of the biggest things in the way of actually reaching this goal.These are really not things that I think are acceptable and people shouldn't be looking at the situation like a dichotomy between capitalism and socialism/communism. In my opinion the biggest problems that socialism faces is the problems that are inherent to statehood, and how to maintain production while technology catches up. If technology is suitable I find literally no excuse to not embrace non-state communism, but I think that trying to put this in place now is hasty and honestly ridiculous. I have a really unusual position on the matter that I don't really want to get into but I think this helps illustrate a wider image of the problem - I don't want to encourage people to think like me, but rather to think about the problem from their own perspective to offer more meaningful input, because imho late stage capitalism is a serious problem that needs solving regardless of communism or not. Also, I think anyone trying to start a 20th century revolution in the modern era needs
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal opinion is that I guess I have to unload now, lol.Here's some of the flaws in capitalism:- Money doesn't really accurately reflect value of labour. For example, lets say you have 10 lead developers on each important team and their wage is no more than 5 million dollars combined. While a CEO could be replaced, despite being risky, the value of the developers is probably a lot more intregral to the success of the company because that entire sector of the company could fail without the knowledge being passed down properly. So if one of the leads decided to leave, they would be in a much stickier situation than the CEO. Especially if all the leads left. But the CEO still gets paid many more times the value than these 10 developers combined - is that really justified?- to elaborate on the first point, money doesn't reflect labour at all with things like rent, investment, IP or nowadays, cryptocurrency. Many of the wealthiest people didn't really innovate anything at all. Also, notice all of those things require the ability to make prior investment, that means that those who are in poverty will have a much harder time being able to make income through passive means.- the idea that capitalism leads to innovation is inherently flawed. First, its important to point out that innovation occured before the existence of capitalism. Second, it actually stiffles most innovation by weakening the workforce with repetitive work. It encourages the consumption of media that are based on what will sell rather than something that makes people think, so over time, things become more and more meaningless. This kills innovation. Under capitalism, the motivation isn't to create, but rather to escape the frustration and misery of pointless work.- Capitalism directly interferes with the direction that technology is going. Accessibility in technology is a good example of how capitalism and the spread of accessibility are inherently conflicting ideas, and that JAWS thread I made is a good example of this. However, the problem extends far beyond just accessibility. We are seeing that social media being centralized around corporate control is both encouraging blanket censorship and privatized control of technology. Because of capitalism, we can't use the immense power of the internet to share our code and make essentially the best software possible - this code hoarding slows down progress. And really, the only reason why its done this way is so that programmers can survive. Is this really necessary?- To build on the last point, Capitalism interferes directly with automation. Why don't we automate many of the tasks that we have people working? Because if they don't work, they will starve. One major problem with communism in the 20th century is that human automation isn't practical; but technology can be seen as an extention of humanity. If technology is able to progressively automate more and more necessary production, then what need is there for work at all? Humanity can focus on different matters that have more to do with what they want to create, such as arts/communications/ect. Technology and automation work very well with the propogation of ideas but interferes directly with capitalism.If we used technology to automate agriculture for example, we would have no need for thousands of workers, but because we are dependent on an economy, we can't do this even if the technology existed, because it would destablize other sectors that are not automized yet.- IMHO, using technology, humanity can slowly transition safely towards fully automation production, allowing people to focus more on communication and propagation. Essentially I view this as a transhumanist step towards eusociality. Right now, capitalism is one of the biggest things in the way of actually reaching this goal.These are really not things that I think are acceptable and people shouldn't be looking at the situation like a dichotomy between capitalism and socialism/communism. In my opinion the biggest problems that socialism faces is the problems that are inherent to statehood, and how to maintain production while technology catches up. If technology is suitable I find literally no excuse to not embrace non-state communism, but I think that trying to put this in place now is hasty and honestly ridiculous. I have a really unusual position on the matter that I don't really want to get into but I think this helps illustrate a wider image of the problem - I don't want to encourage people to think like me, but rather to think about the problem from their own perspective to offer more meaningful input, because imho late stage capitalism is a serious problem that needs solving regardless of communism or not. Also, I think anyone trying to start a 20th century revolution in the modern era needs to learn a little bit about the effect computers have had on the 21st century. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427834/#p427834
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Undoing all that though, I don't even see how it could be done. Large corporations rule now, and I don't know of a good way to take that power away from them but still be able to keep advancing. At some point, we need a functional space program and we need to learn to clean up our junk, both in orbit and on other planets like the stuff on Mars and on the moon. We need to be looking into other possibilities, because I think we will fuck this planet to the point where it can no longer sustain us. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427832/#p427832 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Okay. You say that we need drive to innovate. If we don't have something pushing us, nothing gets done.I disagree with this, but I see where you're going. some people absolutely do benefit from encouragement. But should that encouragement exist in the form of "do it or you're dead"? That seems...a bit off to me.Consider this:If you provide for someone's basic needs, they no longer have to actually spend as much time stressing about those needs. If they are innovators to begin with, this means they have more mental and even physical resources to put toward innovation. If they aren't worried about getting sick or making ends meet, they will be able to put their focus squarely on their task, whatever it is. The result is that people are even freer than normal to invest in their chosen field. Okay, yeah, you're going to get a few who really and truly fuck the dog if given half a chance. But those people exist in a minority. Studies on UBI have demonstrated that even when people were given enough money to live on, they largely still wanted to work, and in fact, often wanted to work harder, or in different areas, or wanted to expand on what they were doing somehow. Example: a woman who was previously just working at a fast-food place might start considering taking night courses to get her GED, and then who knows?Again, I'm not saying socialism is the answer tomorrow. It's not. No one's going to accept that. But I think, at base, you have to get away from the idea that everything costs money. It doesn't. Money is not literally turned into goods and services. People-power, labour, man-hours do that. So if you incentivize those man-hours in some fashion (i.e., people want to do it, don't feel like slaves doing it) then you end up with a win-win situation where people who want to do work are doing that work, but can still get by without requiring monetary compensation for it.Trust me. This is a mind-bender, because people have been taught to equate money to goods and services practically since birth. It's not true though, and if you really look at it, it's kind of ridiculous. When people say "Yeah, but that costs money", they're actually saying "yeah, but that costs effort and resources". Don't you think it's bad when those concepts are being inextricably welded together? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427831/#p427831 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Capitalism does have its flaws, we're pushing people harder and harder and work is becoming the primary activity of life and it's causing all sorts of problems. People just break down because they are under tremendous pressure. When you hear people say I can't afford to be sick, literally, these hard working people if they had a flu that left them out of work for just 3 days, would feel the effects of it. That is not good, and it is all over the place. What capitalism does bring to the table though, is innovation. You're spurred to come up with new ideas, to make those ideas come to light. I couldn't imagine where we'd be without it. I'd like to see the work/home life thing balanced out, less stigma around physical and mental illness, and prioritization put on family. And no, that doesn't mean company activities. If you go to work, then you're constantly in the company activities, you're still technically at work, in a slightly different way, perhaps, but still.What motivates you to do anything under a socialist system. If you have a UBI, what drives you, because some people need pressure to be driven, and you don't have any. If you don't have the pressure to get out there and make money, or lose your house/apartment, then you might do nothing at all. I think socialism is more of a fantasy than something that can actually be put into practice. It's the way we'd all like things to be, and maybe one day they could be. I've always been a Trek fan. When I was younger, it was the sci fi stuff, all the tech and in the original series, people ending up dead all the time, and it was the new adventures. As I got older, I began to realize how much of a visionary Gene Roddenberry was. I think the man was born before his time, but then again, maybe not. Maybe, just maybe, he planted a seed that will take a hundred or more years to grow. We're a flawed species, the best of us, as far as being kind, generous, hard working, motivated, good parents, etc. seem to make up the minority. I can't speak about socialist politics with any degree of competency so I won't try to do that, but I think for right now, it just isn't going to work. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427825/#p427825 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Hi.I will say quickly, that socialism and communism are to very different things and should not be mistaken.That said, coming from Denmark (born and raised) I will say, that is socialism done kind of right. Here in Denmark, we have combined socialism and a free market economy. Giving the pur and less fortune (that doesn't have a job for whatever reason) unemployment benefits that's actually quitte high (between 18000-25000 DKK, which translates to 2.710-3.764$) a month. That may not seam like a lot, but keep in mind, that here everyone has access to free healthcare (included most expensive medicine) free education (both normal school and universities), free maternity leave and much more.The downside here, is that we pay everyware from 35% up to 55% in taxes depending how how much you earn a year.When I think about it, I'm pretty sure, that most scandinavian countries work like this.- NicklasMCHD URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427821/#p427821 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal problem with socialism in of itself and especially how communism was practiced in the 20th century is the focus around the state; I just don't think the two are compatible. Like, it could work for a while but its also risky and vulnerable to exploitation. I'm actually getting really into studying the history of socialism/communism in the last few months and exploring how it failed in the 20th century is really interesting, not just for political reasons but also for understanding centralization vs decentralization models.IMHO a large part of the problem with a lot of soviet bloc countries was that the soviet union imho was a bit... eugenicist. They were also not keen on homosexuals either. Heck, this is part of the problem with centralization (although this problem is related to the state existing as an authority rather than the structure of the state). Actually, I think the biggest debate I have with modern communists is trying to prove that the state isn't "the people" but is something "else" and that's the biggest flawed in centralized planning (and I say the same thing about the right too). When the state decides your fate you're no longer free, you're no longer "the people".I DO definitely think that accessibility should be socialized though. However, instead of being managed by the government, the government should fund non-commercial entities help fund accessible solutions. Like, think world governments donating large sums to the NVDA project so that they can have more developers dedicate more time to it.P.S. Capitalism is super flawed but I don't want to go into detail with my criticisms right nowEDIT: This seems like an appropriate time to point out that Vladimir Lenin was probably the best ruler that Russia ever had. If you ever want a trip, read about the history of the tsars; suddenly the bolshevik revolution makes a lot more sense lmao URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427814/#p427814 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal problem with socialism in of itself and especially how communism was practiced in the 20th century is the focus around the state; I just don't think the two are compatible. Like, it could work for a while but its also risky and vulnerable to exploitation. I'm actually getting really into studying the history of socialism/communism in the last few months and exploring how it failed in the 20th century is really interesting, not just for political reasons but also for understanding centralization vs decentralization models.IMHO a large part of the problem with a lot of soviet bloc countries was that the soviet union imho was a bit... eugenicist. They were also not keen on homosexuals either. Heck, this is part of the problem with centralization (although this problem is related to the state existing as an authority rather than the structure of the state). Actually, I think the biggest debate I have with modern communists is trying to prove that the state isn't "the people" but is something "else" and that's the biggest flawed in centralized planning (and I say the same thing about the right too). When the state decides your fate you're no longer free, you're no longer "the people".I DO definitely think that accessibility should be socialized though. However, instead of being managed by the government, the government should fund non-commercial entities help fund accessible solutions. Like, think world governments donating large sums to the NVDA project so that they can have more developers dedicate more time to it.P.S. Capitalism is super flawed but I don't want to go into detail with my criticisms right now URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427814/#p427814 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal problem with socialism in of itself and especially how communism was practiced in the 20th century is the focus around the state; I just don't think the two are compatible. Like, it could work for a while but its also risky and vulnerable to exploitation. I'm actually getting really into studying the history of socialism/communism in the last few months and exploring how it failed in the 20th century is really interesting, not just for political reasons but also for understanding centralization vs decentralization models.IMHO a large part of the problem with a lot of soviet bloc countries was that the soviet union imho was a bit... eugenicist. They were also not keen on homosexuals either. Heck, this is part of the problem with centralization (although this problem is related to the state existing as an authority rather than the structure of the state). Actually, I think the biggest debate I have with modern communists is trying to prove that the state isn't "the people" but is something "else" and that's the biggest flawed in centralized planning (and I say the same thing about the right too).I DO definitely think that accessibility should be socialized though. However, instead of being managed by the government, the government should fund non-commercial entities help fund accessible solutions. Like, think world governments donating large sums to the NVDA project so that they can have more developers dedicate more time to it.P.S. Capitalism is super flawed but I don't want to go into detail with my criticisms right now URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427814/#p427814 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries My personal problem with socialism in of itself and especially how communism was practiced in the 20th century is the focus around the state; I just don't think the two are compatible. Like, it could work for a while but its also risky and vulnerable to exploitation. I'm actually getting really into studying the history of socialism/communism in the last few months and exploring how it failed in the 20th century is really interesting, not just for political reasons but also for understanding centralization vs decentralization models.IMHO a large part of the problem with a lot of soviet bloc countries was that the soviet union imho was a bit... eugenicist. They were also not keen on homosexuals either. Heck, this is part of the problem with centralization (although this problem is related to the state existing as an authority rather than the structure of the state).I DO definitely think that accessibility should be socialized though. However, instead of being managed by the government, the government should fund non-commercial entities help fund accessible solutions. Like, think world governments donating large sums to the NVDA project so that they can have more developers dedicate more time to it.P.S. Capitalism is super flawed but I don't want to go into detail with my criticisms right now URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427814/#p427814 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Before this train goes any further down the wrong track, I feel it is important that I point something out.This isn't socialism or communism done right. It's socialism or communism done very, very wrong.I am horrified by the things done in the name of certain ideologies (democracy and capitalism most definitely included, by the way). Just because you dress up and call yourself a member in good standing of group x doesn't mean you actually are one, I'm afraid.Socialism done right would set up the following:1. Everyone would have a basic living allowance, and this would cover living expenses. You would be extremely unlikely to straight-up starve or to have no place to live.2. Necessary health care would be covered by the government. Ditto education. This means no tens of thousands of dollars from student debt, and means you aren't going to be in the black for the rest of your life because you needed surgery for a medical condition.3. Technology would be employed to make sure things like food, shelter, energy, health care, transportation and the like were all properly regulated.4. People could and very likely would work, but they'd do it in order to afford non-essential items, luxury items and the like.See, here's an interesting concept to bust your head open on. Capitalism has us convinced that the only way to live is to make as much money as possible, because we need that money for food, shelter, health care, education and virtually anything else we might want. It has convinced us that money is what makes the world go round; because of human greed, right now this is absolutely true. But consider a few facts:1. We already have enough food to feed everyone in the world nearly three times over, at last check; we're also still improving farming techniques so this will only get better2. We're reaching a point where we're finding cheaper energy sources, which means that once this infrastructure is set up, providing energy will also be much cheaper3. As long as we don't go completely nuts, we've got plenty of space for people; there are tons of houses with no one living in them, and tons of homeless...and I don't know about you, but I see a correlation there. Home the homeless.4. The aim is eventually to reach a point where money itself is not required in order to make things happen. Improving technology is only going to make this easier (3d printing is especially lucrative here).5. If we hit this point, capitalism explodes.Is this likely in the next couple of decades? Hell no. It's all a dream in that regard. But it is theoretically possible if people actually try and do it right.But it bears mentioning that capitalism is killing the world.1. Approximately eighty-eight percent of money is virtual (not real). If every creditor reached out to every debtor all at once, nearly nine out of ten owed dollars simply couldn't be produced, and so almost ninety percent of debt would still exist. Figure that one out.2. That whole thing where 2 percent of the population controls 98 percent of the wealth? It might not be right on the nose, but it's close. Now remember that unless you are extremely fortunate, you're part of that 2%. Your financial earnings and contributions don't really matter much, and if you work, you probably generate far more income than you will ever see for your employers and for the people above them. This means that you will remain relatively paralyzed, while people at the top own their own islands, have private jets, get six and seven-figure salaries and generally never want for anything.3. Prices keep going up, but a head of lettuce is still a head of lettuce. If inflation continues this way, it's eventually going to lead to a situation where all but the very rich are slaves to their work just so they can continue to eat. This is what happens when you essentially outsource everything. If you buy food and ask for shelter from faceless groups (rather than doing as we once did, providing our own or setting up arrangement with neighbours or whatnot) they can basically charge whatever they want because they know you don't have a choice. Capitalism is the embodiment of greed.4. Capitalism has no human wellness variable. It doesn't care how happy you are, so long as you are a cog in the machine. Work-related stress is skyrocketing. the work week keeps getting longer. Mental health is bigger now than it has apparently ever been. More and more people are suffering and unable to change their lot. The idea that you'll get better somehow if you just try hard enough is noble enough, I suppose, but it's a privileged sort of idealism.So I hope this gets you to realize that while socialism or communism have definitely been badly misused in the past, and may be again, capitalism is by no means a clean alternative. It's not working. It's only that it's also not quite ready to self-destruct just yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427813/#p427813 -- Audiogames
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Coming from a post socialist/communist country, I will tell you everything that happened then, when the country was controlled by a strong duo of dictators (president plus prime minister), and we will gradually come up to the present time in Albania.So, The first special school for the blind in Albania was founded in 1967. In setting up, managing and maintaining the school, our ally Russia was of utmost help. Although our very enlightened dictator had ruined our alliance quite a long time ago, I don’t know how they managed to set up everything as it was in Russian special schools. But anyway, what was the Russian special school like?A Russian-based school contained the regular curriculum of a normal school. In addition, it specialised pupils/students in crafting and playing musical instruments. At that time, there were so many talented musicians who really benefited from this asset. They managed to play in prestigious halls and theatres. I can understand why the Russians had added these skills like crafting and musical instruments to special schools. Blind communities were not allowed to have rehabilitation centres, local/national associations and foundations, and so on. They were considered equal members of the party and either the party/brigadier would find them a job in crafting or doing an easy task that would secure them a meager amount of money, or they would be left at home at the mercie of their families. So, at this point, it was better to employ the blind citizens in jobs that most of them wouldn’t like anyway, than leave them at home without any contribution to the community. In a meeting we had with the old president of our National Association for the Blind of Albania, who is an asshole anyway, he told us that he and his friends made efforts to open an association for the blind in 1983. He asked the regional party of our capital for this, and the response was: isn’t the party enough for you? You are undervaluing what the party has done for you all and you should feel ashamed of this.Then Albanians decided to say stop to communism and embraced democracy or so to say, as we never had any kind of democracy in our country. The people who formed these new progressivist parties were just leftovers of communism and grew in the school of communism. I think, just as you have particular schools of philosophy or language, you also have particular schools of politics, and this was the case with our country. All of those who had managed to step up the latters of the communist party in Albania were educated to have a special form of thinking, judging, responding, greeting, making decisions, and so on. While in true-face these leaders who established the democratic parties after 1991 bosted about having democratic/liberal visions, they would be willing to kill the whole population to keep their power going. Typical communist mentality!But anyway, getting back to the state of blind community, in Albania, when democracy reached our country, we could finally establish an association for the blind. Thanks to the help of countries like Switzerland, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, and many more, we could bring new technology to our country such as typewriters, braille printers, braille displays, computers and more. This association went on to urge the parliament to ratify many protocols of the European Union. They didn’t have any significant effect on the state of blind community in Albania, but they helped us somehow gain some more rights. But little did we know as a community that this president of the National Association for the Blind in Albania had the same mentality as other people in power. He would steal thousands and sometimes millions of euros that would come as funds or donations by foreign organisations or foundations. He regarded himself as our rescuer, protector, God, and God knows what else. Everytime when the government would make any movement against us, this man would pretend to defend the blind community by organizing false protests, demonstrations, TV appearances, and so on. In fact, what happened behind the scenes was that this man was cooperating with the government leaders or it was the other way around, the government wanted to take the money that came out of services for the blind from our association to the social institutions of the municipality or to any other institution managed by the government, which was a quite normal thing, in my opinion.Anyway, this man who led our national association went on to steal and steal more and more funds, until it came to the point where the government decided to completely cut the funds for the national association for the blind. It happened in 2014.But what services for the blind do we have today in Albania?A newly born blind child is examined by a special doctor and he is the person who measures the degree of blindness, which, upon doctor’s report, the social services issue a monthly pension. The division
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries China can be much much better than north korea. Even for sighted. I don't like to ruin a country's reputation like this, but the things I heard about north korea makes me afraid of even visiting it as a traveler URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427783/#p427783 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries you'd not want to be in China and North Korea. Trust me when I say that sources like this and this present really grim picture. while much work is being done, people there still struggle a hell lot more when compared to other capitalist countries. I'm not saying that other countries don't have their own share of challendges, but the socialist/communist mentality of China and North Korea doesn't allow for much flexibility when it comes to employment/inclusion for disabled into the mainstream. here and this the sources for information about disability in North Korea.I actually knew quite a fair bit about the China situation of the disabled people, thanks for making me research stuff about North Korea. Note: I didn't find many such sources about NK, so that, in itself, should be an indication about how bad the situation there really is. I'm not surprised, though, given their record of human right's violation, that in itself is nothing new. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427780/#p427780 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries you'd not want to be in China and North Korea. Trust me when I say that sources like this and this present really grim picture. while much work is being done, people there still struggle a hell lot more when compared to other capitalist countries. I'm not saying that other countries don't have their own share of challendges, but the socialist/communist mentality of China and North Korea doesn't allow for much flexibility when it comes to employment/inclusion for disabled into the mainstream. here the source for North Korea.I actually knew quite a fair bit about the China situation of the disabled people, thanks for making me research stuff about North Korea. Note: I didn't find many sources about NK, so that, in itself, should be an indication about how bad the situation there really is. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427780/#p427780 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries you'd not want to be in China and North Korea. Trust me when I say that sources like this and this present really grim picture. while much work is being done, people there still struggle a hell lot more when compared to other capitalist countries. I'm not saying that other countries don't have their own share of challendges, but the socialist/communist mentality of China and North Korea doesn't allow for much flexibility when it comes to employment/inclusion for disabled into the mainstream. here the source for North Korea.I actually knew quite a fair bit about the China situation of the disabled people, thanks for making me research stuff about North Korea. Note: I didn't find many sources about NK, so that, in itself, should be an indication about how bad the situation there really is. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427780/#p427780 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries Actually, socialism done right is extremely sustainable, but if you want to even think about accepting that, you have to knock down a lot of assumptions, the biggest of which is that everyone needs to work thirty or more hours a week at a job in order to earn money in order to live.Holy run-on sentence, Batman!Seriously though. Socialist countries that are actually doing it right will treat everyone with respect, and give each according to their means. So you'll have some sort of allowance based on your overall needs (if you need monthly medical intervention that'd be covered or provided for you, if you don't then it won't because you obviously don't need it). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427773/#p427773 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries
Re: Disabled In Socialist Countries I honestly don't know, but while socialism looks good on the surface, it's quite unsustainable. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427747/#p427747 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Disabled In Socialist Countries
Disabled In Socialist Countries So may of the people in my country who are my same age group want socialism. I'm just wondering how the disabled are treated in a country of this model. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427745/#p427745 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
