Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? It really is a shame I came across this as it was ending, honestly. For someone who was looking for a twist on space in general and who was tired of the Miriani/SC/prometheus concepts... Oh well, back to Alter I go for now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245819#p245819 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? The version rory seems to be refering to is v1, and that is the version that never had its client and server released, for very specific reasons. Had things been different, I would have not gone to v2, and dmnb might still be here. But as it is, I was under way too much stress. Further more the server on v1 was rather known for being notoriously unstable, in that it required me to come and monitor it all the time or else something drastic would always end up happening. Case in point, why I took v1 down, after a group of enemy ships started obliderating every ship around inderion. V1 was practicly taking up all of my time to maintain, and restricting me from working on any other project do to constant server fixes that I had to do. In the end, while we had our good memorys and laughed, and while I respected what my playerbase thought despite the instibility, to me it was not worth all the stress it placed on me, as the further we got in and the worcer the instibilitys became, and t he more I struggled to desporitly fix crashes which were everyware the less I felt able to do it. V2 is the version that has its server and client released though not in source form. I was experementing with releasing a client and the server for people to develop their own space games, but most people took it the rong way and in the end I decided not to go through with open sourcing both client and server. I don't have the v2 client or server anymore, but if someone does they can upload and post for people to grab, just don't come crying to me when the v2 server doesn't work on your machine or is notoriously unstable. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245772#p245772 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? @rory: take it from me, someone who has been around the internet for more than ten years. I've seen many games and even websites come and go, and some of them I really didn't want to die. However, this also extends to real life, and I've got a story for you, and it's a one of a kind thing too.When I used to go to London, I remember a place called the Trocadero. This was basically a massive amusement arcade. But I wasn't necessarily there for the arcade games, I was looking for something else. Well, I found it. It was a bunch of motion simulators. These are basically things you sit in and they move around and there are sounds and music and stuff. Most of them just tilt. That all changed one day.Well, there was this one particular simulator I found, called the Mini Rider 2. I stepped inside, and put my coins in, and chose a ride with a button. Well, the machine started to shake a bit. I thought oh no, have I just wasted my money? Then it suddenly burst into life. The machine kind of thrusted forwards, the sound piped up really loudly. Then it started to swing from left to right and tilt at the same time. Trust me, this was like nothing I have experienced before, and I was looking forward to going back a year later.Well the year came, and I went back there and the mini rider was there, so I had another ride. I got to have two rides this time on different experiences, and the sound system was still as loud and immersive as ever, the Trocadero itself couldn't be heard at all while riding this thing.I then went back one year, really looking forward to going on the Mini Rider. We stepped inside the Trocadero but... something didn't feel right. The place around Trocadero felt very, very quiet. Too quiet. I was wondering if I was imagining things, maybe forgetting there was a quiet bit, maybe it's because we weren't inside the actual arcade, but then we went up to the escalator that takes you up to the entrance.Something still felt wrong, it was still too quiet. Then we found out the place was closed. I actually thought to myself, oh, maybe they are being refurbished or getting work done or something and left feeling a little disappointed, but knowing I will be back and thinking Trocadero would be there waiting.So we went back a year later. I stepped into the Trocadero with a bit of hope, but then I realized something. It was still quiet. Then my stomach started to flutter with worry. We went up to the escalator and my family told me it was blocked again. This time though, I got to touch it. I felt glass.I was then like you. I thought hold on maybe we're just going there at the wrong times. But, I've been to London three or four times since, and believe me, Trocadero is seriously, completely, and utterly, closed. Possibly forever.When I first found out I was devastated. Believe me, I thought what I was reading wasn't true. It took me thre e more trips to finally get over the shock of it and put to rest forever that the Trocadero is gone.I think this might be what you are experiencing when it comes to dmnb. A bit of shock that it's suddenly ended. The thing is, it's out of our control, much like that faitful Trocadero that means so much to me, I can't reopen it, and it reminds me of dmnb, because there won't be another server. But, that isn't the point right now.The thing to do right now, is to think about the good memories you had while playing dmnb, like I do when I think about the Trocadero. If I keep dwelling on the idea that Trocadero is closed, I will just feel depressed. So I just think about the Mini Rider, and the very happy times it braught me, and I am very, very thankful for the Trocadero for allowing me to experience this machine, this truly, one of a kind machine. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245749#p245749 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Again, for the last time. I don't have the source. I do not have the server. I do not have the client. So even if I wanted to, I could not give it out. I cleared it when I discontinued the project. Its over and done with. As i've asked before, please respect my choice on this and stop asking. If you have the client and server program for v2? You can host all you like, their aint anything forbidding you to host accept for the fact the server is notoriously unstable on different machines. V1? You can forget it because no one else has the server code, so even if I had the client code it'd be practicly useless. So you may as well give it up then and their, so I respectfully ask we just drop the matter here, ok? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245703#p245703 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Rory wrote:Can anyone put up a server? Danny, even if you can't, why not just let someone else run it? Since you completely lost the sorce, just let someone else run a server. That's all we need is someone to host it, and we can all play. If anyone has time to run a server, do it. That's seriously all this game needs and then we can all leave danny alone because it will be out of his hands.I have already answered this question. Feel free to host a server if you have the time to manage it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245699#p245699 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Can anyone put up a server? Danny, even if you can't, why not just let someone else run it? Since you completely lost the sorce, just let someone else run a server. That's all we need is someone to host it, and we can all play. If anyone has time to run a server, do it. That's seriously all this game needs and then we can all leave danny alone because it will be out of his hands. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245682#p245682 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? I really don't need that anymore since i'm quite snug with python. So far i'm developing an engine for future installments of the series. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245673#p245673 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? @prajwal, we had to temporarily hold off on the C++ framework because we couldn't figure out how to concatenate wchar_t type variables. If someone has a way to do this with one function call, please tell us how. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245658#p245658 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : prajwal via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? no danny made the c++ frame worck and he tolled in forams new story line for dm univers URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245602#p245602 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Hi.If I get this right, it is not just setting up a server and then leave it for a month or so. Sounds like it takes a lot of time to keep the server going, fixing things people have destroyed etc. If it just was setting up a server and then leave it to the players to enjoy, I could do it. But I simply don't have the time to manage a server and keep the game going, and I think this is one of the reasons for Danny don't put up a server again. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245563#p245563 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? I've already stated again and again that this choice was not made lightly. I did not simpply one day say ok yeah, done, its down. Its a choice that i've actually been considering for 2 months before dmnb even shut down and whent to v2, and v2 was my attempt to try to make myself happyer with the concept. Their are several reasons why I discontinued the concept, some are obvious, while others i'd rather keep to myself. If I considered online games as a toy, I wouldn't have ritten v2 to try to not only make the server experience more stable, but I also wouldn't have resseled for 4 or 5 months with v1 trying to get the server under control after my attempt to fix lag. I'm sorry. But in this case, while I do respect my players, and do understand that people enjoyed dmnb, and while this may sound selfish, i've already made my choice. I can't turn back now and reclaim it, nore do I want too. I'm willing to go forward however and at somepoint, try the online concept again. But in order to do that? I do need you guys to understand that dmnb is gone and its not coming back. At least, not in that form. I'm not forbidding anyone to host their own servers, that is precycely why I released the client and server for a while to see weather I could open the game up to further development, but I am asking for a little space and respect, and that means not repeatedly asking why I dropt dmnb or asking me to bring it back. When i'm ready to try all of this again, I will do so. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245556#p245556 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : momo7807 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? HiI just want to say one thing.Why did you shut down the server?Hmmm, you could just continue, or if you wanted to abandon the game, you could keep the server active, So everyone can play it.And hey, online game is not a toy, like offline game. Before shutting down the server, You should think about everyone and You should vote about it. Because some people still wants to play this game. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=24#p24 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? But why can't someone host a server for this one while you work on the next one? Pepole still like playing it, and the only tning is you can't make new versions for it, but we can still play it? I really think someone should run a server for it and we can play well you work on another one, i really like the game. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245552#p245552 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? As for the server, I took it down specificly because it was taking all my time and effert just to maintain it. If I did do another online installment and I have restarted plans on this, I don't intend for it to be purely roleplaying enforced. I was thinking along the lines of a mission baste system where you still had a story, but kept the open world feel, a bit like borderlands2. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245511#p245511 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : BryanP via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? I for one could tell it was a joke right away,though admittedly sometimes it cann be hard with text only communication. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245487#p245487 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? A, no, wait! Honestly, it was supposed to be a joke! When have I ever flamed at a dev on here? I haven't and I wouldn't! I've always promoted constructive criticism, and even if I disagreed with a particular action I wouldn't just outright bash. That's not who I am and it's not who I want to be. I'm sorry by anything you all thought I inferred in post 7. I need to rethink my sarcasm, I guess. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245483#p245483 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : connor142 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Personally I'm glad that danny deleted the sorce, for if it were to be leaked or stolen we'd have the same situation on our hands we had with ultrapower, and we really don't need that. It happened with kosmos, it happened with up, thank what ever supernatchural force you may believe in it doesn't happen with this game. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245465#p245465 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? @rory: I think he's stopped the server because of the fact that it's a multiplayer game only, and he's lost the source, and he wants to work on another game in the series. I think with all three of these things, I'm not surprised that he stopped the server, as it's basically him and the admins that kept it going with the events and such, and without any events there isn't too much that will advance the timeline or anything. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245458#p245458 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? It means that the game still works if a server is being set up, but the development can't continue, because the code is compiled which means you can't decompile it and continue to develop the game. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245423#p245423 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? But even though the code is lost, does the server still work? Because can't we still play, he just can't fix bugs or add any ne things? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245409#p245409 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Installment, Rori, simply means, another game in the series. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245401#p245401 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Wait, am i understanding this correctly? You don't have th code, so the online doesn't work? And you keep talking about an installment, what do you mean, there's a single player but not multiplayer? What happened to your sorce, that's a great game, and the only audio space exploration game we have. IS the server still active, i'm confused. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245399#p245399 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? @Nocturnus I must say I'm rather disappointed at the utter close mindedness demonstrated in post seven, to say the least. A full, thorough read of Danny's post would have clearly informed you that if people were really interested in an online installment of the dm series, they would quit creating "Can I be unbanned" topics and asking him for the game and/or its source, both of which he's clearly, stated, he doesn't have. If you're interested enough in something to be curious about it, wouldn't you also, in theory, attempt to find answers to your inquiries? Plus, creating topics asking to be unbanned from a game that has been discontinued for two weeks shows nothing resembling interest, instead it shows a degree of disrespect for the developer, really URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245395#p245395 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? @Nocturnus I must say I'm rather disappointed at the utter close mindedness demonstrated in post number seven. As a former moderator of this forum, the lack of comprehension you conveyed pertaining to the subject matter was, - astonishing to say the least. A full, thorough read of Danny's post would have clearly informed you that if people were really interested in an online dm game, they would stop asking questions repeatedly, especially those that had been answered on, multiple, occasions previously. Indeed, if you are actually interested in something, wouldn't you also, in theory, care enough to try to find answers to your inquiries? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245395#p245395 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? That is not what I ment at all. I was refering to the number of topics about people complaining about their bans if that's what that last post was refering to, not to the people expressing intrest in the game. I meerly asked people to stop pmming me asking for the source as I no longer have it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245393#p245393 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Wait, whaaat?Am I understanding this correctly? People who are interested in a game should not show interest in a game? Well now, I wonder if that kind of mindset will work on other things. I'll just, not show an interest in money, and then I'll have billions! I'll be back in, uh, however much time it takes to acquire this money. Oh wait, uhm, yeah. Never mind, scratch that, I don't want it. You hear? I, don't, want, it! I want no money or anything associated with it! In fact, I'm going to give away my next check to someone! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245389#p245389 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? To the people pmming me and asking for the source. I couldn't give it out if I wanted too, because as i've repeatedly stated in the new releases topic, I don't have it, and its been gone ever since I discontinued the project. If people are really this intrested in another online installment in the series, I may consider it for future, but right now i'd like to focus on a different installment in the series. Its very likely I won't get much of developing done for a while however as my computer is on the verge of going down the tubes. For the record, such topics like these complaining about a users ban on dmnb were one of the reasons I lost modovation and intrest. If you really cair enough that you want another online installment, I suggest that the topics stop. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245377#p245377 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : prajwal via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? dude that bans are gon with dmnb v 1 and all ban peoples got back in dmnb but now dmnb is no avaleble danny stoped it URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245356#p245356 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? moderation!I'm going to have to once again say to remember the guidelines.Specifically, guideline 13 in the site and forum faq. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245280#p245280 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? Banned or not, this is Danny's game and you can contact him privately to get a clear reason. Once that's done, you can tell us what happened. I didn't enter the game since approximatively a year so I'm not sure how the banning system works. Do you get a cause? Or, let's say, a date in which the ban ends? Or else how can you know that you have been banned? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245278#p245278 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please?
2016-01-02
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : vlad25 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Kindly request to be unbanned from dmnb please? well, you're not banned. the server is down because dmnbis discontinued URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=245213#p245213 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
