Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. actually most of the librarys has a voice reading what is on the webpage, that's true, but they also had a preview of the sounds, not all of them for sure, but at'least enough to give you a hint of what's incide URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490960/#p490960 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. They had a video. Best part, it was just a voiceover reading out what was on the webpage. No sounds. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490775/#p490775 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. good idea URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490767/#p490767 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. not a bad idea, i already got ful collections on my hard drive for that so i'm already aware of the good ones. good luck anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490763/#p490763 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. though, sound ideas offers previews and tracklistings URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490761/#p490761 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. Just make sure to garble the sounds you show that much that they cannot be used properly anymore by ripping your videos. Like put music under them, speak over them, or whatever. Otherwise licensing might become a problem. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490755/#p490755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. Just make sure to garble the sounds you show that much that they cannot be used properly anymore by ripping your videos. Like put music under them, speak over them, or whatever. Otherwise licensing might become a trouble. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490755/#p490755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Re: Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. That sounds like a good idea. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490751/#p490751 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. I just bought a sound library yesterday from sound ideas, a foley collection. All I went on was the number of sounds and the price tag, which was a sail. There were no previews or reviews to let me actually here the sounds, and I wished there had been. Wile the library was downloading, I had an idea. I could review sound librarys as I purchase new ones and post the reviews on YouTube to make others decisions easier. I will go over each aspect of the library and show many of the sounds, and talk about where I think the library does best and where it does worst, with sounds included so people know exactly what they're getting when they buy it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490748/#p490748 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Idea, me reviewing sound libraries.
Idea, me reviewing sound libraries. I just bought a sound library yesterday. All I went on was the number of sounds and the price tag, which was a sail. There were no previews or reviews to let me actually here the sounds, and I wished there had been. Wile the library was downloading, I had an idea. I could review sound librarys as I purchase new ones and post the reviews on YouTube to make others decisions easier. I will go over each aspect of the library and show many of the sounds, and talk about where I think the library does best and where it does worst, with sounds included so people know exactly what they're getting when they buy it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490748/#p490748 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries For simple 3d sound, not to be confused with binaural sound, you can use monoGame or SFML. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/403306/#p403306 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries LAV works on c that I know of besides pythonfor c# you haveFMOD, irrklang of which I still have to figure out the license, bass.NETThose are the ones I know of. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/403205/#p403205 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries LAV works on c that I know off besides pythonfor c# you haveFMOD, irrklang of which I still have to figure out the license, bass.NET URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/403205/#p403205 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries
Re: High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries Hi.Have you tried libaudioverse? I'm not sure if that's exactly what your looking for, but I know it's a 3d audio library, and I'm pretty sure besides python it has support for c++ and c# as well.Hth. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/403199/#p403199 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries
High Level C# 3D Sound Libraries Hello.What are the solutions of 3D sound in C#?I know about Irklang, this is a very good choice, but not for commercial projects.OpenAL is a good choice, but it is a low level library.I need a simple solution where I need to enter the coordinates of the listener and the source for this to work.Maybe someone has a wrap over OpenAL?I'll be glad to any information.Thanks in advance! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/post/403156/#p403156 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any sound libraries witch you would suggest?
Re: Any sound libraries witch you would suggest? Try sonniss.comThey have a really good selection and some well priced libraries, even if it takes some searching.Just listen to the demos Sounddogs.com lets you buy single CD's from big, high priced libraries, which is pretty useful.Other than that, just check the big list of free sounds on itch.io, or search for footsteps and such on freesound.org and do your own cutting, though that can take allot of searching for certain things, like guns, and much less for others, like footsteps. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=339073#p339073 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Any sound libraries witch you would suggest?
Any sound libraries witch you would suggest? Hi all.So, I have decided again to start to try to make games. The real problems are sounds. I have heard That NS studios has made some cheep ones but they just seem to lak things witch I really need. So, what sound libraries would you suggest? I basicly need a library witch has footstep sounds, Weapon draw/reload/fire, sounds, and such.Thanks in advance. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=339036#p339036 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound libraries
Re: Sound libraries If you want commercial sounds that are the most affordable around, you've got a few options, and using all of them is never a bad idea. The 1000fx library from Sony is a nice starters collection to get your feet wet, a lot of sounds from the Bsc games come from that library. There's also the sound library in the masters edition of Wavepad. I personally prefer Goldwave, but I bought the masters edition of Wavepad just for the library. It's a nice collection of 800 decent sounds, and this one also includes 200 tracks of production music. There's also the Apple Loops collection for free if you have a mac. Last but not least, my favorite site for this stuff, audioblocks is the most affordable site to get unlimited access to sounds and music. It's the only site that I know of that has unlimited access to the library via a subscription. Check it out! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=299519#p299519 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound libraries
Re: Sound libraries thanks! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=298501#p298501 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound libraries
Re: Sound libraries Try the [Big List of Free Sounds] on itch.io. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=298456#p298456 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound libraries
Re: Sound libraries You're friends with Samtupy.Let him help you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=298392#p298392 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound libraries
Sound libraries hi guys, i making a game, but i need some sounds libraries, can you give me please, weapon sounds, tile sounds, door sounds, car soundss, and more. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=298380#p298380 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound libraries
Re: Sound libraries i searching sounds to 1 week URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=298381#p298381 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries sounddogs free versions give you the poorest quality though! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=212903#p212903 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Its this thread:http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=15569There are a few cheap libraries out there, but theyre generally not all that great for games, in my experience.Pay-per-sound sites like SoundDogs.com and 1soundFX.com make it cheaper to get higher-quality sounds individually.Freesound.org, soundbible.com, and anywhere that does Creative Commons sounds are ok starting places. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=212343#p212343 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound Libraries
Sound Libraries I am looking to do some prototyping of audio games. Do you have any suggestions for free or reasonably priced sound libraries that have a decent variety of sounds to use for prototyping? I figure if I come up with any ideas that go past the prototyping stage, then Ill look at looking for specific sounds that work better with a game theme, but for now I just need to find a sound library that would have enough variety that I could use for putting together prototypes. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=212287#p212287 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Hello, you will find good stuff on youtube and freesound.org. Also, there is a big free library in the forum, I think if you search for free library you may find it.Best regards, Haramir. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=212299#p212299 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Im using Portaudio for the moment. It doesnt matter what I use, though: the audio output is completely separate from the mixer and, in fact, you could write your own if you were so inclined. The audio output code lives in a corner by itself. I will need to talk to it directly in future, but Portaudio works well enough for testing. There are unfortunately some latency issues Ive not yet tried to fix, so I may have to drop it.But tbh, that code is the simplest code in the entire thing. Libaudioverse is somewhere around 2500 lines at this point, and the portaudio code is somewhere around 85 of them. Ripping it out and replacing it with the stereotypical multi-backend decider that a lot of people use (that is it looks at whats available and automatically picks the best library for your platform) is going to be the the work of a day, and it can fall back to Portaudio until I write better backends. All t hese do is provide a way to send samples to the sound card so it doesnt matter what you pick-theres no particular advantage in terms of DSP, only in lower latency.Also, I think our definitions of easy are different. Most audio APIs that provide for only sample output are easy: learning to use one and integrating it with something else takes something like 2 or 3 hours tops for me, especially since the mixer does not know about the audio API. I consider nothing about them difficult. There are much harder programming problems for Libaudioverse; actually writing audio backends isnt one of them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181160#p181160 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Im not sure to understand well: your final product is going to use OpenAL behind the scene, or not at all ?ABout math, in theory I have seen all that: vector calculus, derivative/integrals, multiple integrals, vector analysis, and such. However, I have problems appliying all that stuff concretely as soon as the level is above a certain point. Pseudo-3D by playing with vectors and trigonometry isnt so hard; but I have already tried to read things about the most basic DSP, i.e. low/high/bandpass, and after hours of reading, I still dont understand from where come all the core of the magic (coefficiants usually called a0, a1, a2, b0, b1, b2). So far, I blindly copied code without understanding whats going on behind it. It just works, period. I suppose that reverb and convolutions used in HRTF are a level higher in difficulty ?IN fact, I havent made a lot of audio signal processing theory in my university courses, unfortunately for us it 9;s sadly teached together with imaging stuff (of course unaccessible). First of all, I should probably start my journey by trying to understand the relation between the frequency of a signal at a time T and the couple observed sample values at that moment. At the moment I dont even understand that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181043#p181043 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries I have dropped OpenAL. I think OpenAL sucks and hate it more than I can say. camlorn_audio uses OpenAL; Libaudioverse never did. I will never ever touch it again (unless someone pays me, anyway).Youre looking at it wrong. You cannot pull the frequency of a sound out given two samples--this is not what the FFT does. The FFT gives you the frequency of sinusoidal components of the sound. Figuring out the frequency, i.e. is this middle C, is something that people spend years working on. There is no mathematical tool that can give you the frequency, only a list of where the sine waves are. Having Calculus gives enough that, cobbling together bits of knowledge from all over the internet, you can build a bridge to a workable understanding. I have never needed anything after single-vaeriable calculus, nor have I yet needed to use differential equations in any form.The core of the magic isn 39;t something you get to see until after differential equations, or at least until you understand the Laplace transform. I do not understand why what I use works, only that it does. I also spent about 6 months studying it. Theres two things that most people dont realize: DSP is as much an art as a science, at least when talking about audio, and DSP is very, very deep. Unless youre an electrical engineer or one of the few majors that needs it for everything everywhere, youre not going to know why everything you want to use works. The other thing about DSP is that, in actuality, its a discrete version of the stuff that goes into signal processing, something which has been important since the first radio, and the applications of both fields are so wide as to make audio look like an island in an ocean of possibility. Audio and images are the least important applications. How about telephones? The internet? sp; Analysis of waves in the ocean? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181046#p181046 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Edit: Ive got no theory from university. This is all stuff I did outside school in my own time. Its perfectly doable, if you give it time and dont stop reading.I have dropped OpenAL. I think OpenAL sucks and hate it more than I can say. camlorn_audio uses OpenAL; Libaudioverse never did. I will never ever touch it again (unless someone pays me, anyway).Youre looking at it wrong. You cannot pull the frequency of a sound out given two samples--this is not what the FFT does. The FFT gives you the frequency of sinusoidal components of the sound. Figuring out the frequency, i.e. is this middle C, is something that people spend years working on. There is no mathematical tool that can give you the frequency, only a list of where the sine waves are. Having Calculus gives enough that, cobbling together bits of knowledge from all over the internet, you can build a bridge to a workable understanding. I have never needed anything after single-vaeriable calculus, nor have I yet needed to use differential equations in any form.The core of the magic isnt something you get to see until after differential equations, or at least until you understand the Laplace transform. I do not understand why what I use works, only that it does. I also spent about 6 months studying it. Theres two things that most people dont realize: DSP is as much an art as a science, at least when talking about audio, and DSP is very, very deep. Unless youre an electrical engineer or one of the few majors that needs it for everything everywhere, youre not going to know why everything you want to use works. The other thing about DSP is that, in actuality, its a discrete version of the stuff that goes into signal processing, something which has been important since the first radio, and the applications of bot h fields are so wide as to make audio look like an island in an ocean of possibility. Audio and images are the least important applications. How about telephones? The internet? Analysis of waves in the ocean? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181046#p181046 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries I have dropped OpenAL. I think OpenAL sucks and hate it more than I can say. camlorn_audio uses OpenAL; Libaudioverse never did. I will never ever touch it again (unless someone pays me, anyway).What are you using to output audio easily then ? Do you connect manually to native API i.e. WaveOut or DirectX on windows and the equivalents on linux and mac, or are you using a library like portaudio ? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=181086#p181086 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Thank you for your answer. The IOS engine sounds cool if people wanna make audiogames for IOS, but I dont know if the engine is accessible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180820#p180820 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Ive heard that its also hard to get a hold of the papa Sangre engine, assuming you are ready to pay whatever they ask. The problem with iOS development, however, is much more fundamental: Xcode is the example of why I consider Mac accessibility to be flawed at the Voiceover level. Youre not going to enjoy developing for iOS unless you get something like Ruby Motion or know how to write custom scripts to make Xcode suck less, and possibly not even then. You can do it, its just not exactly fun--the only blind person I know doing it on a regular basis uses a Windows VM for code editing.As for why Im going to support it? Libaudioverse is bigger than the audiogaming community or the blind person. Sighted people want and need this software too, and being able to share code across platforms has become a very, very big thing in the computer science and programming world. If you wanted, you could combine Libaudioverse with Sdl and write games for 5 platforms. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180872#p180872 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Hi.[[wow]] what an interesting topic!Im just following the topic because I dont have much to say. But I have a question:Have you looked at the sound library, engine or what it is which is used in Papa sangre 2? I have heard that the company have released the engine so people can use it in other games as well. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180743#p180743 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries @sljI do not have access to the Papa Sangre engine. It does not run on anything thats not iOS, and is of little interest to me because of that. I would also need to pay for access. iOS and Android are in the works for Libaudioverse, but dont expect anything on that front for 6 to 8 months (iOS requires super-optimization. Compiling for iOS is quick, but being able to run effectively in realtime is hard). The mixer itself is pure Ansi C++11 and I make an effort to never violate the standard.@frastlinIm not familiar enough with those programs to see how your analogy compares to what is actually going on. Each input can be connected to *exactly* one output, though an output can go to any number of inputs. The specific process of sharing an effect, therefore, is the construction of a mixer with, say, 32 inputs. You then send that output to the shared portion and connect your objects to its input s. This is the low level again, however-the 3d simulation is much simpler. I made sacrifices and compromises to be able to run as fast as Im running: one of these was an implicit mixer at each input. Pyo sort of does this and a bunch of other stuff. The result is an audio library that cant do powerful things in realtime for games and only works for Python. If youre looking for something it is similar to, go look at the Pyo tutorials and then think about how great that would be if it was fast enough to run in realtime while handling 100 sources of audio, reverb, and music (Bryan Smart did Headspace, but only gets 16 sources out of it total as I recall).The way something like footsteps will work is as follows. Sources are merely speakers and get their audio from something else. In this case, its a node that reads a file. What Im going to do is add support for queuing files and a callback that tells you when its finished one of them. What you do then is put your walking code in the callback and decide what sound you want to play. This is something I ran into with Camlorn_audio, and it was only solvable with the creation of--you guessed it--threads. If you dont want anything playing right now, you just dont queue the next one. To avoid issues with threads, youd typically do this by telling your main loop to call that deciding code (every language possibly including BGT provides a threadsafe flag, so the callback becomes something like 3 lines and the main loop just does a standard if(should_decide_next_footstep)).The thing to remember is that libaudioverse separates 3D simulation completely from how the audio is arriving: objects can be files, urls, midi synthesizers, etc. You then tell a source to read from one of them, controlling characteristics specific to files through the file object. This is a little hard to e xplain in forum post appropriate length, but there will obviously be tutorials and examples. This is going to be commercial and better come with docs. Regardless, the 3D simulation could care less as to where it gets audio from.The benchmark works as follows. It starts by creating 10 sources connected to sine wave objects and synthesizing 5 seconds of audio from them (Libaudioverse can synthesize to buffers instead of the sound card). It times this and, if it is less than 5 seconds, runs the test again with ten more. The benchmark is capable of synthesizing 5 seconds of audio in 5 seconds for anywhere between 100 to 200 sources, depending on the aforementioned factors. Because there is a lock on the device, actually making Libaudioverse take 100% of the time for synthesis will block your code as you call into it, so its lower--as I said previously, 100 is what can probably be expected on a PC from the finished product after a bit of op timization.And Im going to be applying to MIT, probably Stanford, and possibly a few other places Ive not found yet in the fall. Im not stopping at a masters program. Im going all the way to doctorate, if at all possible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180765#p180765 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries [[wow]] camlorn that sounds awesome!I really cant wait to see what you have created! It will be the new library for all the audio games! Half of what you said went right over my head, so that probably means that it will do way more than I need!Does your library have: panning, and the ability to set objects on a map and have them fade faster or slower and change directions, like what swamp does. Also, being able to load and unload sound objects, stream background music (If loading is super fast, it doesnt really matter (Or work with Elias )?And for all us newbies, have you considered creating a python wrapper or BGT wrapper? That is probably what other people could do unless you wished to sell each wrapper separately... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180684#p180684 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Well, to provide concrete details of what I have (a more detailed and much more technical blog post is around the corner, but I want a couple more things done first):the library consists of objects that you connect. Think of objects as boxes with ports on them--each port can have a wire connected to it. Out of each box also comes a number of wires which you can split as many times as you want. Ports represent audio inputs and wires represent audio outputs. Each box takes audio from its inputs, does something to it, and then spits out audio on its outputs. In addition, boxes also have switches and dials--the properties--that let you control exactly what the boxes do. Examples of boxes include the mixer (combines multiple audio sources), the panner (pans audio with or without Hrtf), the limiter (prevents audio from going above 1.0 or below -1.0--this is needed to prevent odd things on some sound cards), the file node, the sine wave generator , and a bunch of others that Im in the process of writing. This is the level you would work at for writing a custom simulation of your own, music software, media players, voice streaming, etc: Libaudioverse is by no means Audiogame specific. camlorn_audio was, which was a mistake and also had to do with the fact that OpenAL tries to be game specific, too.The next level up and what most people are going to want is the 3D simulation. You create an environment, which is an object with a bunch of properties on it representing things like room size and echo and reverb--basically whatever I code. You then use this environment to create sources. On the environment is a pair of properties that specify the position and orientation of you, known as the listener in audio land. Each source has properties representing its position, orientation (it will be possible to make sources that sound different if theyre facing away from you, i.e. simul ate speaker playing music), size (specified as the maximum distance at which the source is to be audible), and other things. While the usage of the first set of objects is not simple, the usage of this set is extremely so, involving something like 2 function calls to initialize at program start and 1 to create a source.Finally, the library will provide callbacks. I am going to implement those tomorrow and doing so is going to be trivial, but they needed some now-completed infrastructure first.Ive been working on this since the summer began, and Im about 75% to an alpha release. one of the landmarks is going to be reimplementing Unspoken on top of it--the thing libaudioverse can do that camlorn_audio cant even now is integrate itself with NVDAs audio APIs. The reason that it hasnt gone faster is because I needed to implement a general and flexible infrastructure and I chose C over C++ (see the link I linked in m y last post). I now have the ability to turn out new bindings in a day at most, and Python already works (Ive not released because its still missing essential features and the bindings are still a bit raw-nevertheless, they are completely functional). The 3D simulation is lacking in features but works, and the library has full Hrtf support. I have the ability to implement literally any type of LTI filter, and quite a few things that arent (this means things to people who know about DSP, but translates to lowpass, highpass, bandpass, band-reject, dc blocker, and a few other things to those who dont).As for performance, I have written a benchmarking program. The benchmark can manage anywhere from 100 to 200 sources in realtime on a single core and without SSE. Specifically what I get depends on background processes and whether the last change I introduced is doing something stupid and inefficient. In real program ming, for a variety of reasons, this is going to translate to 70-100 playing sources for most people. If you create too many, the mixer will be too busy to answer requests from your code in a timely manner, consequently dropping your frame rate (theres a device lock). There are 2 optimizations I have yet to implement. One of these makes it scale to the number of cores you have (its currently only using one) and one is SSSE. I expect each of these alone to increase the performance by at least a factor of two. The HRTF I am testing with is a 128-point response, which sounds twice as good as the one OpenALSoft lets you get away with; given that Im getting this many sources, if I made the sacrifices OpenALSoft does, Id be outperforming it already (its default HRTF takes 4 times less computing power). I can make those sacrifices; perhaps better, I can leave those sacrifices in your hands if you want them. If you aren t using HRTF, consider the number of playing sources unlimited.Finally, I am not planning to sell bindings separately and you will be able to use it for free if your app is open source. Im going to work out some pricing schemes that depend on how much you want to sell the app
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries [[wow]]! Im super excited for the 3D simulation!!! I totally love your explanation it is really clear!So, when you say The benchmark can manage anywhere from 100 to 200 sources in realtime on a single core...You are meaning at once?That is a ton of sounds at once!Even 70-100 sounds at once is a lot. When you were saying something like that about OpenAL, I thought you were meaning initializing sounds. You will probably answer this in the tutorial, but I just want to make sure that it is easy to create a ton of .ogg files. If I have 4 or 5 for footsteps on grass, 4 or 5 for footsteps on metal, 3 or 4 for footsteps on the road, I would like to play a random one of those 4 or 5 each footsteps, and have them all have similar settings.In Pygame I create a sound object:sound1 = pygame.mixer.Sound(mysound.ogg)Then I add properties to that soundsound1.change_volume(1, 0)(The above is supposed to play out of the left speaker only, but in pygame it is a little more complex)Or what I can do is create a channel with all those properties and just play lots of sounds on that channel.I think what you are saying with the objects is similar to channels in pygame.So I can create a setup with a certain amount of filtering and panning, then play as many sounds as I wish through those settings? Then I can create another object for muffling, or volume and connect it to the first object, then play as many sounds as I wish through both of those objects settings?Kind of like busses in Sonar?This sounds super awesome and I cant wait for it to come out!Let me know if you would like help marketing it and whatnot, I know a lot of places where it can be linked and developers who I can push it to! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180702#p180702 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries [[wow]]! Im super excited for the 3D simulation!!! I totally love your explanation it is really clear!So, when you say The benchmark can manage anywhere from 100 to 200 sources in realtime on a single core...You are meaning at once?That is a ton of sounds at once!Even 70-100 sounds at once is a lot. When you were saying something like that about OpenAL, I thought you were meaning initializing sounds. You will probably answer this in the tutorial, but I just want to make sure that it is easy to create a ton of .ogg files. If I have 4 or 5 for footsteps on grass, 4 or 5 for footsteps on metal, 3 or 4 for footsteps on the road, I would like to play a random one of those 4 or 5 each footsteps, and have them all have similar settings.In Pygame I create a sound object:sound1 = pygame.mixer.Sound(mysound.ogg)Then I add properties to that soundsound1.change_volume(1, 0)(The above is supposed to play out of the left speaker only, but in pygame it is a little more complex)Or what I can do is create a channel with all those properties and just play lots of sounds on that channel.I think what you are saying with the objects is similar to channels in pygame.So I can create a setup with a certain amount of filtering and panning, then play as many sounds as I wish through those settings? Then I can create another object for muffling, or volume and connect it to the first object, then play as many sounds as I wish through both of those objects settings?Kind of like busses in Sonar?This sounds super awesome and I cant wait for it to come out!Let me know if you would like help marketing it and whatnot, I know a lot of places where it can be linked and developers who I can push it to!*Edit*I read a couple of your blog posts and they are awesome! I think frankly that you would find a masters program trivial at this point and the o nly reason why you would wish to go is to find a more advanced teacher as well as get access to more refined academic circles.Your passion for programming shows and coupled with good business sense, I think youll not need to worry too much about work at your level of education. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180702#p180702 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Core audio is not like Direct Sound. Core audio, should it be available for windows, would invalidate all audio work I have ever done. Ever. Its the most advanced sound library Ive ever seen, save Pyo which has major speed issues and is Gpl (with no commercial version). Confusingly, there is also a core audio on windows, but its not the same-the Windows core audio is an extremely low-level way of talking to the device.To be 100% clear on OpenALSoft, the source limit is not the end of the world. You can get around it if youre clever, but this cleverness is not at all simple. OpenAL splits audio into sources and buffers. A source represents information on location in 3D space, cones, and some other stuff. A buffer holds audio. You attach buffers to sources. The problem is that all properties of a source are needed for audio so, in order to share a source between sounds, youve got to write a not-so-small intermediate layer that remembers what the source used to be set to--i.e, you have to make your own source object that supports having the actual source pulled out from under it. If you dont attach a buffer to a source, it takes basically zero space and zero CPU, yet we can only reliably have a couple hundred without hacking OpenALSoft itself (he says he wants to remove this limit, maybe he did, but there are others just as annoying). This is the *least* of the issues I had with OpenALSoft-Ive mentioned the rest here and here. The other reason I ended up doing my own is that OpenAL is rigid: you get a source, at most 4 effects in parallel, and then the sound card, but theres a bunch of stuff that can be done if the library lets you actually manipulate the sound graph yoursel f (i.e. synthesizers, making audio radars becomes much easier, get a copy of the audio stream without hassle, and a friend of mine has an idea for environmental reverb that might actually let you hear the shapes of rooms).Of the libraries listed here and disregarding 3D audio, Bass is good. SDL is just a low-levle wrapper around the sound card unless you also use SDL_Mixer, and Fmod now uses a graphical studio thing like most of the commercial offerings. Irrklang is also something worth looking at in that its supposed to be very simple, but Ive not used it. The python options for easy audio include Pyo (powerful, will take an hour to learn but is the most flexible, has major, major speed and latency issues and primarily aimed at research), PyAudio (low-level wrapper over Portaudio, may be useful but will require writing a mixer), and Pygame (looks easy enough, limited API, cant do too much with it but its sufficient for i.e. SoundRTS o r Shades of Doom quality sound). The additional windows option is XAudio2, but this is C++ or maybe C#, may or may not have latency issues, and looks extremely complicated.Thats the limit of my knowledge. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180474#p180474 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries Hello,Since we seem to be all sort of screwed because all libraries wheither* arent reasonnably affordable* dont support 3D* have latency, delay problems and such* have very bad designed APIWhy not start something on our own, together ? The plan could be the following:* Begin with an existing low-level library such as portaudio so that we dont have to bother with multiplatform hardware support. From there, make our own mixer, channel/source and sample/buffer objects, etc. BASS and FMOD are examples of well made API, we can probably inspire a bit from them, for their API design* Program the core API in C/C++ so that we can then make bindings for any language we wish, and so that we arent stuck from start to a particular one; please no python, no java, no C#, as nobody dont like / dont want to use some of them.* LGPL license, so that we could can use it in commercial products, as well as having feedbacks from potential contributorsAt some point, I started writing a C API on top of portaudio. Unfortunately, I dont know enough math to make involved effects like LPF, HRTF, etc. I limited my thing to 2D and pseudo 3D simulated only with pitch/pan. But by joining together we might have a chance to understand how it works.The main problem of my stuff was that CPU was quickly loaded as soon as you had 50 or 100 channels playing at the same time. Im not at all neither an expert of CPU optimization, SSE and such. Im pretty sure that DS, BASS, FMOD and other are all using SSE.I had also started at some point a MIDI player that loads samples from SF2 banks and generates audio streams 44.1 stereo. But it wasnt very stable, might still be useful. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180491#p180491 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries I already have started fixing this problem for real, but Im not accepting contributions because its going to be commercial. Before everyone jumps on me, Libaudioverse will be free for open source games by virtue of being GPL--if youre going to force closed source and still be free, you can probably afford whatever I decide (Im thinking $20-$30 for these games) or open source your game because, you know, its free anyway. I can offer commercial licenses by virtue of being the only contributor and/or getting copyright agreements in place, which is why Ive not been screaming for help. Ill probably have something releasable in 1-3 months--I finally got past a bunch of stupid low-level infrastructure, managed to solve the bindings problem (my bindings maintain themselves, no human required), and correct the mistake of choosing C over C++11. I m going to write something on my progress shortly, as it is now significant enough that I can actually have a meaningful article. There will also be something else on how I fixed the bindings problem as at least one friend of mine thinks that its worthy of Hacker News.Unfortunately, I dont think collaboration will work. There arent enough people on these forums with enough knowledge of mathematics. The only reason that Ive managed to get where I have is because I went to college, got through Calculus 2, and spent about 6 months hammering my head against DSP until I was able to build a mental framework of whats going on. This is not an easy problem mathematically nor programming-wis: if youve not had at least calculus, youre not going to be able to understand anything beyond pan. All of the explanations involve derivatives and integrals, complex numbers, raising complex numbers to exponents, and usually Eul ers identity. At least 3 of those also involve non-trivial trigonometry. The current libraries are where you get without this knowledge-going further requires it. The Libaudioverse repository is about to hit the thousand-commit mark, to give some idea of the scope of the problem. The reason that camlorn_audio used OpenAL instead of a custom mixer is that, when I wrote it, I hadnt made the journey through DSP hell. And my grasp of DSP is still not complete, merely complete enough that I can do useful and cool things.Its also not something you understand by reading code. Code does not tell you the original formulas or why youre suddenly adding and subtracting x and y. Understanding the basics of DSP is something that can only be done with mathematics, not via code examples. Sad but nevertheless true. Having the example in front of you isnt going to help much unless you know where the 20 lines of magic math came from.beyond those problems, a truly powerful library is going to require at least a little familiarity with graphs (the data structure, not the kind with graph paper) and must be written in C++. To be truly fast, youre also looking at at least one of 3 things: cache friendliness, SSE, or multithreading the actual synthesis algorithms-none of these is trivial, though the last is surprisingly simple if you architect for it when you start coding. Theres also at least one lock-free algorithm at the bottom of Libaudioverses audio code: in order to properly talk to audio devices, you cant accidentally priority invert the audio thread.Im not trying to depress people or scare interested people away, but Im not going to sugar-coat it. I did DSP outside school and it took a very long time and a very lucky find of an arguably accessible resource (its go t LaTeX alt text) as well as reading lots of Wikipedia articles over and over. I think its a very interesting field and learning it will teach you a lot of other math in the process. But getting far enough to understand what is going on with HRTF is going to take a while-not to mention reverberation, which combines all of the DSP basics plus a bit of personal creativity; it is said that only the original designer will ever understand all the parameters in a reverb algorithm.Basically implementing a good quality DSP library takes a bunch of tricky math stuff, some computer science stuff, and a bunch of low-level issues (hello to floating point subtleties) and combines them in a blender. Most sighted programmers cant do this kind of coding, as its really a specialized domain--people specifically go to college for DSP, and the only reason I know it at all is because I spent a year or so on it.And for the record, using something like this in your game is easy. Its making it in the first place that is so difficult.If people want to discuss things related to DSP, Ill try to help if I can. I have a practical understanding--the kind you can program with. Im still working towards a full mathematical understanding, but Ill get there in the end as the hardest part is behind me now. I think theres one or two others floating around this forum that understand the topic as well. My particular advantage
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries So camlorn is apparently writing his own sound library because he found OpenAL was much too complex and full of bugs for anything that had more than 256 sounds as well as it being chock full of broken features and bad design blunders.I personally thought OpenAL looked really awesome with the x, y and z coordinate system. But 250 sounds is crazy! Also, I cant live with horrible error detection, so that instantly puts a redflag against OpenAL for me.Has anyone used audiere or FMOD? FMOD has come out with this new license for Indi developers that they get one of their libraries free, but Im not sure if it has an API. They are one of those peculiar companies who think GUIs are cool!Audiere was last updated in 2006, but despite that, it seems to have a very nice set of features. Im not sure if it has a python wrapper though.Is sox considered a sound library? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180321#p180321 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound Libraries
Sound Libraries Because this is such an important topic for audiogame developers, here is a thread so we can discuss them!Here is the list of sound libraries I know and their license, if you know more please post them and I can add it!OpenAL Soft LGPLBass Free for free games, $125 for one small game, $950 for high-budget license for one game and $2950 for unlimited gamesFMOD Free if you dont wish to sell your games, many many different licenses based on what you do wish to do and what product you use.Audiere LGPLDirect Sound Is only on Windows and comes on every windows computer (I think)Core Audio seems to be like Direct sound on Windows, but for Apple devices (IOS and OSX).Im not sure if I should put this, but there is the small library that pygame uses that is fromSDL zlib license URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180320#p180320 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries
Re: Sound Libraries SDL, raw, Allegro ...Obviously depends on what you need to do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180358#p180358 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound Libraries
Sound Libraries Because this is such an important topic for audiogame developers, here is a thread so we can discuss them!Here is the list of sound libraries I know and their license, if you know more please post them and I can add it!OpenAL Soft LGPLBass Free for free games, $125 for one small game, $950 for high-budget license for one game and $2950 for unlimited gamesFMOD Free if you dont wish to sell your games, many many different licenses based on what you do wish to do and what product you use.Audiere LGPLDirect Sound Is only on Windows and comes on every windows computer (I think)Core Audio seems to be like Direct sound on Windows, but for Apple devices (IOS and OSX).I believe most languages have a special module that one can use to manipulate raw sound data, so type in raw audio + your language.Game libraries that have an audio library built in:SDL zlib license (pygame is based off this)Allegro giftwair (they would like you to donate, but not needed) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180320#p180320 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound Libraries
Sound Libraries Because this is such an important topic for audiogame developers, here is a thread so we can discuss them!Here is the list of sound libraries I know and their license, if you know more please post them and I can add it!OpenAL Soft LGPLBass Free for free games, $125 for one small game, $950 for high-budget license for one game and $2950 for unlimited gamesFMOD Free if you dont wish to sell your games, many many different licenses based on what you do wish to do and what product you use.Audiere LGPLDirect Sound Is only on Windows and comes on every windows computer (I think)Core Audio seems to be like Direct sound on Windows, but for Apple devices (IOS and OSX).I believe most languages have a special module that one can use to manipulate raw sound data, so type in raw audio + your language.Game libraries that have an audio library built in:SDL zlib license (pygame is based off this)Allegro giftwair (they would like you to donate, but not needed)For those who dont know what a sound library is, a sound library is what is used to manipulate audio. Weather that is rewinding, panning, playing different audio formats, adding echo, recording, generating audio, dealing with midi, or doing anything that has to do with controlling the sounds you wish to have in your game.Most libraries will have a way to play a sound, pause a sound, stop a sound and change the volume of a sound. Past that, it really depends on what library you choose. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180320#p180320 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound Libraries
Sound Libraries Because this is such an important topic for audiogame developers, here is a thread so we can discuss them!Here is the list of sound libraries I know and their license, if you know more please post them and I can add it!OpenAL Soft LGPLBass Free for free games, $125 for one small game, $950 for high-budget license for one game and $2950 for unlimited gamesFMOD Free if you dont wish to sell your games, many many different licenses based on what you do wish to do and what product you use.Audiere LGPLIm not sure if I should put this, but there is the small library that pygame uses that is fromSDL zlib license URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180320#p180320 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound Libraries
Sound Libraries Because this is such an important topic for audiogame developers, here is a thread so we can discuss them!Here is the list of sound libraries I know and their license, if you know more please post them and I can add it!OpenAL Soft LGPLBass Free for free games, $125 for one small game, $950 for high-budget license for one game and $2950 for unlimited gamesFMOD Free if you dont wish to sell your games, many many different licenses based on what you do wish to do and what product you use.Audiere LGPL[url="" Sound[/url] Is only on Windows and comes on every windows computer (I think)Im not sure if I should put this, but there is the small library that pygame uses that is fromSDL zlib license URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180320#p180320 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Sound Libraries
Sound Libraries Because this is such an important topic for audiogame developers, here is a thread so we can discuss them!Here is the list of sound libraries I know and their license, if you know more please post them and I can add it!OpenAL Soft LGPLBass Free for free games, $125 for one small game, $950 for high-budget license for one game and $2950 for unlimited gamesFMOD Free if you dont wish to sell your games, many many different licenses based on what you do wish to do and what product you use.Audiere LGPLDirect Sound Is only on Windows and comes on every windows computer (I think)Im not sure if I should put this, but there is the small library that pygame u ses that is fromSDL zlib license URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=180320#p180320 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python set_listener(5, 5, 90) stereo(6, 5) (0.0, 1.0) stereo(4, 5) (0.5, 0.0)Youre right, something is wrong. Ill check what happened.I realize that a simple way of managing a third dimension might be useful for several simple cases: footsteps (z=0) versus shout (z=1.8), or in SoundRTS when the player is slightly above the map... This simple way would just use the distance, no above or below distinction since it would require sound processing.The attenuation is a bit strong but its not necessarily a problem. The distances are in meters. I should add a function to allow the designer to tune the attenuation for each source. And maybe something is wrong here too. Ill check.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178352#p178352 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python OK, here is what is happening: (4, 5) is considered to be slightly behind the listener so the result is divided by 2. The code is correct but a bit brutal: its 0.5 instead of 1.0 if you cross the line. Something smoother can be done.To have a less surprising behavior while keeping the brutal transition:if int(math.cos(a)) 0: # behindorif math.cos(a) -.1: # behindURL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178394#p178394 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python OK, here is what is happening: (4, 5) is considered to be slightly behind the listener so the result is divided by 2. The code is correct but a bit brutal: its 0.5 instead of 1.0 if you cross the line. Something smoother can be done.To have a less surprising behavior while keeping the brutal transition:if math.cos(a) -.1: # behindURL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178394#p178394 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python OK, here is what is happening: (4, 5) is considered to be slightly behind the listener so the result is divided by 2. The code is correct but a bit brutal: its 0.5 instead of 1.0 if you cross the line. Something smoother can be done.To have a less surprising behavior while keeping the brutal transition:if math.cos(a) -.1: # behindEdit: removed one of the solutions.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178394#p178394 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python So pos.py is part of pygame? I get the trigonometry, Ive just never tried using sound in any language other than bgt.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178401#p178401 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python No,pos.py is the file that is in post 7.at SoundMUD:,It would be awesome if you could create a module that dealt with these sound problems in a very nice way. I looked on pygames website and there is nothing in their packages that help one with 3d sound in any way. Have you considered uploading this to their website?Some things I would like would be:a limit of squares away before the sound is at 0, 0, so for example:stereo(5, 6, 5)x, y, distanceThen it would sound if someone got within 5 squares of it. Although, how would you then account for solid objects being in between the sound and player?Also, in the same vane, having the limit for a player to hear would also be nice. So you could say that the player can only hear sounds within 10 squares.The script would check what number is the lesser and decrease the sound on that percentage.So if the creaking door had a distance of 5 and the player could hear in a di stance of 10, the 5 would take precedence.Wouldnt one use sound above in side-scrollers or walking around a 2d grid?It is really awesome that you have the skills to create a sound controller like this!URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178429#p178429 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python Sorry, wheres this module? It sounds like it could be useful for my computing project.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178281#p178281 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python Hello,The pygame sound module is from pygame and the above module is to work with the pygame sound module.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178296#p178296 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python I have never tested this till today and it only works when set_listener(5, 5, 90)andstereo(5, 5)then if you toggleset_listener(4, 5, 90)orset_listener(6, 5, 90)I know the sound support for above and below has not come yet (which you should add instantly!), but shouldnt the sound last longer than 3 squares? Or did you expect the squares to be something like 5.3, 5.5, 5.7, 5.9, 6.1?Im sad that the above module goes way way over my head math-wise, or I could figure out what you were trying to say...URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178311#p178311 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python I have never tested this till today and it only works when set_listener(5, 5, 90)andstereo(5, 5)then if you toggleset_listener(4, 5, 90)orset_listener(6, 5, 90)I know the sound support for above and below has not come yet (which you should add instantly!), but shouldnt the sound last longer than 3 squares? Or did you expect the squares to be something like 5.3, 5.5, 5.7, 5.9, 6.1?Im sad that the above module goes way way over my head math-wise, or I could figure out what you were trying to say...*Note*when the player is 4, 5 sound is 0.0, 1.0when player is 6, 5 sound is 0.5, 0.0.That is not right...URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=178311#p178311 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python The same mixer deals with sound (loaded before playing) and music (loaded while playing).In Python, a module is actually imported the first time only. The next times the module is only linked.The module should import pygame and eventually initialize it in the beginning of the module, or in a function called once. The main initialization can happen in the beginning of the main module. On the other hand the pygame.init() function can be called several times during the initialization phase without a problem. Just make sure that pre_init is called before any pygame.init() or the parameter will be ignored.Turning the module into a reusable one is not that easy. I have tried to make a components-based framework engine in 2013 but Im not sure if it would be good enough. A simpler module mimicking pySonic API might be better. It might also manage the sound sources and move them when the listener is moving.The stereo() function already deals with sounds be hind the listener: the volume is divided by 2.Here is a documented usable module from the engine framework, called pos.py, which essentially contains the formulas: This module can be combined with pygame mixer to have a portable positional audio system. The formulae are purely empiric. They have been taken from SoundMUD and SoundRTS. example: import pos pos.set_listener(10, 10, 90) print pos.stereo(20, 10) import math _x, _y, _o = 0, 0, 0 def set_listener(x, y, o): sets the position of the listener: - x, y: coordinates of the listener - o: orientation in degrees, east is 0 degrees, counterclockwise global _x, _y, _o _x, _y, _o = x, y, o def _distance(x, y): distance of x, y from the listener dx = x - _x dy = y - _y return math.sqrt(dx * dx + dy * dy) def _angle(x, y): angle of x, y observed from the listener d = _distance(x, y) if d == 0: return 0 # object too close = in front of the listener ac = math.acos((x - _x) / d) if y - _y 0: a = ac else: a = -ac return a - math.radians(_o) def stereo(x, y, nodist=False, above=False): returns the left and right volumes - x, y: coordinates of the object - nodist: distance = 1 (for signaling object direction) - above: from above # TODO: above a = _angle(x, y) d = _distance(x, y) left = (math.sin(a) + 1) / 2.0 right = 1 - left left = math.sin(left * math.pi / 2.0) right = math.sin(right * math.pi / 2.0) if math.cos(a) 0: # behind if nodist: k = 1.3 else: k = 2.0 # TODO: attenuate less? (especially in overhead view) left /= k right /= k if d 1 or nodist: d = 1 left = min(left / d, 1) right = min(right / d, 1) return left, right if __name__ == __main__: try: assert stereo(0, 0) except: import sys print sys.exc_info() raw_input()URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170978#p170978 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python The same mixer deals with sound (loaded before playing) and music (loaded while playing).In Python, a module is actually imported the first time only. The next times the module is only linked.The module should import pygame and eventually initialize it in the beginning of the module, or in a function called once. The main initialization can happen in the beginning of the main module. On the other hand the pygame.init() function can be called several times during the initialization phase without a problem. Just make sure that pre_init is called before any pygame.init() or the parameter will be ignored.Turning the module into a reusable one is not that easy. I have tried to make a components-based framework engine in 2013 but Im not sure if it would be good enough. A simpler module mimicking pySonic API might be better. It would manage the sound sources and move them when the listener is moving.The stereo() function already deals with sounds behind the listener: the volume is divided by 2.Here is a documented usable module from the engine framework, called pos.py, which essentially contains the formulas: This module can be combined with pygame mixer to have a portable positional audio system. The formulae are purely empiric. They have been taken from SoundMUD and SoundRTS. example: import pos pos.set_listener(10, 10, 90) print pos.stereo(20, 10) import math _x, _y, _o = 0, 0, 0 def set_listener(x, y, o): sets the position of the listener: - x, y: coordinates of the listener - o: orientation in degrees, east is 0 degrees, counterclockwise global _x, _y, _o _x, _y, _o = x, y, o def _distance(x, y): distance of x, y from the listener dx = x - _x dy = y - _y return math.sqrt(dx * dx + dy * dy) def _angle(x, y): angle of x, y observed from the listener d = _distance(x, y) if d == 0: return 0 # object too close = in front of the listener ac = math.acos((x - _x) / d) if y - _y 0: a = ac else: a = -ac return a - math.radians(_o) def stereo(x, y, nodist=False, above=False): returns the left and right volumes - x, y: coordinates of the object - nodist: distance = 1 (for signaling object direction) - above: from above # TODO: above a = _angle(x, y) d = _distance(x, y) left = (math.sin(a) + 1) / 2.0 right = 1 - left left = math.sin(left * math.pi / 2.0) right = math.sin(right * math.pi / 2.0) if math.cos(a) 0: # behind if nodist: k = 1.3 else: k = 2.0 # TODO: attenuate less? (especially in overhead view) left /= k right /= k if d 1 or nodist: d = 1 left = min(left / d, 1) right = min(right / d, 1) return left, right if __name__ == __main__: try: assert stereo(0, 0) except: import sys print sys.exc_info() raw_input()URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170978#p170978 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python About the delay in pygame:https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/iss … ted-momentIn short, the default value for the buffer has been changed in version 1.8 to a huge value to avoid any scratchy sound while playing music. The trouble is that this value is not suited for games. Solution: before pygame.mixer.init() call:pygame.mixer.pre_init(44100,-16, 2, 1024)If it isnt enough, use an even smaller value for the buffer:pygame.mixer.pre_init(44100,-16, 2, 512)Extract from pygame 1.9 manual:NOTE: Not to get less laggy sound, use a smaller buffer size. The default is set to reduce the chance of scratchy sounds on some computers. You can change the default buffer by calling pygame.mixer.pre_init()preset the mixer init arguments before pygame.mixer.init()initialize the mixer module or pygame.init()initialize all imported pygame modules is called. For example: pygame.mixer.pre_init(44100,-16,2, 1024) The default size was changed from 1024 to 3072 in pygame 1.8.Since the buffer value must be a power of 2, the real default value in pygame 1.8 is probably 4096, not 3072.About computing stereo volume values from 2D coordinates, check the empiric formulas in this module (especially the function called stereo):https://github.com/soundmud/soundrts/bl … iasound.pyURL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170850#p170850 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python About the delay in pygame:https://bitbucket.org/pygame/pygame/iss … ted-momentIn short, the default value for the buffer has been changed in version 1.8 to a huge value to avoid any scratchy sound. The trouble is that this value is not suited for games. Solution: before pygame.mixer.init() call:pygame.mixer.pre_init(44100,-16, 2, 1024)If it isnt enough, use an even smaller value for the buffer:pygame.mixer.pre_init(44100,-16, 2, 512)Extract from pygame 1.9 manual:NOTE: Not to get less laggy sound, use a smaller buffer size. The default is set to reduce the chance of scratchy sounds on some computers. You can change the default buffer by calling pygame.mixer.pre_init()preset the mixer init arguments before pygame.mixer.init()initialize the mixer module or pygame.init()initialize all imported pygame modules is called. For example: pygame.mixer.pre_init(44100,-16,2, 1024) The default size was changed from 1024 to 3072 in pygame 1.8.Since the buffer value must be a power of 2, the real default value in pygame 1.8 is probably 4096, not 3072.About computing stereo volume values from 2D coordinates, check the empiric formulas in this module (especially the function called stereo):https://github.com/soundmud/soundrts/bl … iasound.pyURL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170850#p170850 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python This is fantastic thank you! I must have missed the description of the buffer size as I dont understand any of the arguments in the pre_init call. I reduced the first numbers, but never could find what the last number did. This is great!Do you know if it is better to have a separate module for sound effects, or would it be OK to initialize the mixer in the effects function call? In another words, is it hard on the computer to initialize the mixer every time a key is pressed? Im kind of new to python, so dont quite understand how processing works.thanks,URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170881#p170881 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python About the separate sound module, its your choice. Add a module if you really need it. Keep it simple.But the mixer should be initialized at the beginning, at least before the game loop starts. Initializing the mixer all the time would be useless, or worse.You will find simple examples there:http://soundrts.blogspot.fr/2008/01/som … ogame.htmlhttp://soundrts.blogspot.fr/2011/08/ano … ogame.htmlURL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170895#p170895 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python Yes, I used those when I was first messing around with pygame. They were very helpful!Do you know if there is any good way to have a module get the focus, while of the key commands without importing pygame again? Currently I have a menu module that imports pygame seperatly. It is very simple and easy to read, but it imports pygame every time you want a menu to show up.It wouldnt be a problem if pygame was not so big, but with so many modules, the lag is almost noticeable.I suppose I can design a module to take key presses and import that module every time I want to take controll of the keyboard, but Id like to know what other people do.thanks,URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170901#p170901 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python Yes, I used those when I was first messing around with pygame. They were very helpful!Does the music section of the mixer then get the same buffer size as the sound effects? I have music that can have the huge buffer size, but I only want the music to have that large buffer. Does pygame create 2 instances of pygame.mixer, one for the sounds and one for the music? Or do I need to build that in?Also, do you know if there is any good way to have a module get the focus, while of the key commands without importing pygame again? Currently I have a menu module that imports pygame seperatly. It is very simple and easy to read, but it imports pygame every time you want a menu to show up.It wouldnt be a problem if pygame was not so big, but with so many modules, the lag is almost noticeable.I suppose I can design a module to take key presses and import that module every time I want to take controll of the keyboard, but Id like to know what other people d o.thanks,URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170901#p170901 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Re: Sound Libraries in python [[wow]], I just read clientmediasound.py.That is complex! Have you considered making it into a package and placing it on the pygame website? There is maybe 1 audio package on there and it doesnt do anything useful from what I could tell.Having a package that can calculate distance, and change the stereo sound to match that new calculation would be amazing! Have you ever found a way to lower the sound for when the sounds go behind you?URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170908#p170908 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
[Audiogames-reflector] Sound Libraries in python
Sound Libraries in python Hello,Ive been asking around on the audio game developers email list, but Ive not really found any quality sound libraries for python.Im using pygame in my programming, but Im having the problem in pygame that:1. the sound has a major delay (500ths of a second, but thats a lot!)2. the panning is crude and rudimentary at best. I only have the tuple (0.5, 0.5) for a sound in front of me and that is it. No pitch change, no xyz coords, no Doppler effect or anything but that lovely (0.5, 0.5).PyAl, the python wrapper for OpenAl seems like it has the most potential, but it requires knowledge of C++ that I dont quite have yet in order to do checks on if a sound is playing or not and there is no play_to_end function.There is also no supported way to open .ogg files or stream audio files.PySonic made me the most excited, but then I looked at the website and the last update was 2005 . This is a huge bummer now FMOD is free for games under $10. (If anyone wants to make a wrapper for the FMOD API...)PyMedia seemed perfect, until I started reading through the documentation and couldnt find any clear audio panning and I realized it was more an audio player api, not a sound library.audiere erm, I couldnt figure it out. The documentation was not in python and I couldnt even find the correct python package installer. It looks like a C++ person wanted to be accessible to python users and expected us to understand what to do with a pyd file...pydub looks cool, but again, it seems like another pymedia. No panning and very little documentation.sound_lib is probably the best out there. It is a wrapper for the bass library, so costs if sold. The documentation on sound_lib is nil, so thanks to one of the other developers on the developers list, I was able to implement it into the game Im currently making. Im just not happy with it as if I wanted to sell any of my games I would need to pay and with no documentation, paying would not be worth it.I am wondering if anyone has any hints with pygame to make it faster and or have algorithms that can simulate 3d audio with a 2d setup?I would also like to know what libraries other people use (python or otherwise)?Thanks,URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=170790#p170790 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
