Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? Hello Manuel.Everytime I read something about java it tells about how wonderful and cross-platform it is. But really, if I wanted to make a game in java for windows and then port it to android how much work would that be? I mean obviously changing the user interface from keyboard and mouse to touch screen and make it work with talkback instead of windows screen readers. Would I have to rewrite for android from scratch? I know I could use the windows source code and make adjustments but thinking about that it sounds like a whole lot of trouble. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303924#p303924 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? Hello guitarman,Yes, I think you can learn most off the basics from Python, then if you are feeling confortable you could switch to java (or keep using Python in Desktop ).Basically we are talking about the same concepts. Just these languages have some differences (as every language does), but I think the Java approach is good too, I mean, braces and stuff like that are represented in python as indented lines, but it's the same principle. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303919#p303919 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? Just think a bit about that. There's no interest in supporting widely AT-spi (the only accessibility Related API provided by gnome). There's KDE and someone developed a bridge between QT libs and AT-SPI because it's not an easy job, at all, to create libraries that can connect to a toolkit and provide accessibility related information in an easy and transparent way. It's not that you will wake up in the morning and say well, I will create my own library in C++, that will know everything about internals of GTK, QT, X11 apps, why not? And I am not sure if you know about it but Orca is part of gnome. I mean, people is being paid for developing orca, and that money comes from Igalia, Redhat and companies that are supporting Gnome. Why They should change orca instead asking to people working in KDE/QT for adding more support to AT-SPI? If other libraries don't have ANY method for orca to get information, what would be best? To apply lots of hacks to the orca 39;s codebase until it will work under these libraries or, just, connect these libraries to AT_SPI? And I am not saying noone will do it, they have tried, but you see. There's no A11y Team in KDE, same can be said about XFCE, LXDE and other desktops. I don't think you can Ask orca devs (people working for Gnome) to add support. How can you justify that extra time if you are being paid for that job? people have sent lots of emails to people working in KDE and the reply is always the same. Noone is working in A11Y right now, if you want to come, you are welcome. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303917#p303917 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? @manuelcortez, that's the problem -- if the devs of Orca cared that would move away from at-spi, and, if needed, write their own accessibility toolkit that interfacs with all graphical toolkits. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303913#p303913 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? Hi Manuel.I get what your saying, I can use python but it would be better and easier for me to use java. I think what I'll do is learn python, learn the basics and things, then I'll try and move onto java. The reason I didn't want to use java is that I've seen code samples before and they look difficult to read. One reason I'm trying to learn python is that it doesn't have all the brackets, braces, slashes, and things like that. When I read java code I can usually figure out what it does but I have to read it over a couple of times. I think another reason I don't like it is because the language syntax looks like bgt and I've had nothing but trouble in the past with bgt but it's probably past time that I got over that lol! I didn't know you could use eclipse to compile apps for android, I have jre on my pc so I'll download eclipse so I can use it in the future.Thanks Again! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303887#p303887 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? Maybe because At-SPI? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303855#p303855 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? If Orca is so awesome like you guys claim, then why does it still not work with any other programs but GTK programs? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303853#p303853 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? Hello,1. You can develop in Android without getting into Java, but you cannot have the system integration and tons of libraries that Java can offer to your program. For example if you would like to use Pyton, you still need to install a package that includes the Python interpreter into Android. In short, it's doable, but I don't think it really worth.2. Python would need something else for understanding touch screen gestures.3. I think java would be the simplest option. This, Or C++, that I don't think could be simpler than Java.4. You can use Eclipse for compiling android apps if you don't want to use (or can't) Android studio. There are plugins for adding full Android project's integration to Eclipse. Also you can use the command line if you wouldn't want to use eclipse.5. If you use eclipse, it will do everything for you. But yes, you would need to rebuild the package and sending it to the tabled by using the USB Debug mode. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303709#p303709 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux and Other questions? Hi.Well I want to thank you all for the responses! I didn't post earlier because I wanted to see where this topic went. Thank you very much for all the awesome responses! I've learned a lot of interesting things about linux.Well I changed the name of this topic because I had some other questions and I didn't want to create a whole lot of other topics to ask them.My questions are about android. I've been thinking about trying to learn programming for the thousandth time. I hope this time will be a success so wish me luck! Anyway I can barely code but I wondered about a few things. I have a mac and was thinking about making software for iOs, but I don't like the limitations apple puts on developers, and if I wanted to make a fre game I would still have to pay for storage fees which I don't want. I know that android apps are free to put up on the store, and google doesn't pester you as much as apple at least that's what I' ;ve heard. Well I have an android tablet so I thought it would be a good idea in the future to try something like this out. My questions are: 1. can I develop for android without getting into java? I'm going to try and learn python can I use that instead? I've heard a lot about how you can't really get into android without getting into java. 2. Does python understand touch screen and jairo and all that neat stuff? 3. If I can't use python is their another simple language I can use? 4. What do I use to compile apps? I've seen android studio and android sdk but I don't quite understand exactly how they work. 5. When I add new features to an android app do I have to compile then test on the tablet, then work some more then compile again and test again? Or is there an easier way to do this.Like I said, I'm not ready to do this yet I'm just curious how it would work. I'm going to use learn python the hard wa y to see if I can learn to code. I think it would be better to learn the basics on windows then move on to other things but I would still like to know how all this works. Even though I don't know how to code I find what programmers do very fascinating, even if I can't understand everything they're talking about. This probably belongs in the developers room but I'm not developing anything yet so I figured I'd put it here lol!Thanks. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303559#p303559 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? Well, sad news. We need more packages up to date. I am using arch too, and am thinking very seriously in using arch too (or a not 100% up to date, but well tested version of arch) for MKSpeech. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303542#p303542 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? Actually, Sonar and Vinux have merged into one; they will be using Fedora as a base. As for me, I run a vanilla Arch box and will be grabbing Gnome 3.24 when it hits the shelves. Can't wait to see what new features they have in store for us! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303534#p303534 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? I keep coming back to this. One day, one day ... but I just don't get the sense, even under GNOME3, that the experience is anything like as snappy or polished as Windows or Mac. I think it's clear that Orca development is very stretched, at any rate. JMO, but I really am going to take some persuading to use it as my primary OS. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303473#p303473 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? What's more, can you please justify why Orca has stalled in development? I see plenty of commits that show the project is alive and well. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303386#p303386 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? Also agree. I'm using Gnome 3.22 in Arch and haven't experienced any issues like what's described in post 3. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303363#p303363 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? Hmm. Not sure if I agree with post 3. Linux has been my daily driver for a while now, and the only reason that Windows is around is on account of their being some annoying course material for college that doesn't seem to want to work well with Orca. But hey, it doesn't work well on Windows, either, so I guess it breaks even in the end. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303346#p303346 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? Also, I would highly advise you *not* to use Linux as a graphical environment at the moment. Orca is barely being worked on and, as a result, accessibility has fallen drastically, and no one has bothered to ever fix it because Linux developers, apparently, don't care about it. Windows and Mac OS X are the only most accessible OSes for computers. iOS is probably the most accessible for phones, and Android for Tablets. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303304#p303304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Re: Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? Linux has two kind of screen readers, there are some for the console and, currently, one for the graphical desktop environment. In Linux we have "Desktops", that is, a set of programs for making tasks (just like the full GUI in Windows). Every desktop is made by using a toolkit (Like GTK for Gnome Desktop environment, or QT for KDE, there are others that use GTK or QT like LXDE, XFCE, Mate...), the point is that every desktop changes the look and feel of the full graphical environment. Right now there is the Orca screen reader, that comes packaged with Gnome (that's so because GTK is the only toolkit in Linux that comes with a full accessibility library) and I think gnome is the most accessible environment nowadays. There is also Mate, based in and old version of Gnome, that is also accessible with Orca. You can install orca in other desktops because Orca is just another package and you can get it with your package manager, but Orca has been designed as a part of Gn ome, and accessibility is guaranteed only for this environment. As mate is based in a version of Gnome, it's very accessible too. Before orca, there was Nopernicus (or however it's named), but due to the differences found in every desktop environment, they discontinued the project and that's when Orca was created for the Gnome Desktop environment Only.Also, there are other kind of screen readers, that are designed to read only the console. You know in Linux you can use the desktop of your choice, or you can just use the console. As usual, there were so many screen readers for the console too, some of them based in different ideas or trying to do different things (yasr, sbl, even BRLTTY can read the screen if I am not mistaken), but currently the screen readers that are still mantained are Speakup and Fenrir. Fenrir is relatively new and is being used mostly in Arch Linux systems, that's why probably it's not so easy to find links to the screen re ader so easily. The main difference between speakup and fenrir is that speakup is a Screen Reader Only, made in C, and is, in fact, a Linux kernel Module (it runs in the Kernel space), while Fenrir has been written in Python 3, includes a set of new features (different clipboards, spelling correction, etc) and runs in the user space, it means, you don't need to run anything in the kernel space for getting it to work.Finally, here is the link to fenrir's repo: See fenrir in GithubBest regards, URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303231#p303231 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux?
Why Are There So Many Screen Readers For Linux? Hi.Well I don't know much about linux other than that it's an open source operating system and that there are a lot of distributions. I was looking at the MkSpeech topic where they were talking about how it runs on linux and they started talking about a lot of different screen readers. I googled them an find out about a discontinued one called napernicus something like that anyway. I've noticed the only other os that has a variety of screen readers is windows. Other than that all are the same VoiceOver for apple, TalkBack for android, various others. So why all these screen readers for linux? Orca, speakup, fenrir, napernicus, what's up with all this? Google just doesn't come up with much info on these and what they do. I've tried to install linux in the past but it always goes wrong for me for some reason. The other day when I googled fenrir I found a download link, and also I found out that fenrir is a creature in mythology which I thought was pretty neat. So if you could lay it out for me I'd aprreciate it a lot. Someday I'll figure a way to install it and then I can see for myself but for now I don't have the time.Thanks. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=303206#p303206 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
