Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Actually, using a portable AM radio to spot RFI sources is well documented. It is the simplest way to determine this type of interference. I think your comments about AM listening preferences came a little heavy handed. No one is talking about using the radio for entertainment purposes. The consensus is that any RFI causing interruption of AM reception will most likely affect the low level audio circuits. The audibility of this will depend on the quality of your playback equipment and your own ears. I particularly don't take any chances with this. -- crooner Customized dual chassis Super Squeezebox EAD DSP-7000 MKIII DAC with HDCD VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz Audio tips and initial impressions
inguz;197601 Wrote: what do you see in the log.txt file? Inguz, This is what I have in the log file. This evaluation version will expire 11/1/2007 12:00:00 AM 20070423231915: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Gain -16 dB 20070423231915: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 20070423231915: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f.eq 20070423231915: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423231915: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423231915: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 16/44100 PCM = 24/44100 PCM TRIANGULAR, gain -16 dB 20070423232225: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Write DSPUtil.FastConvolver.00_04_20_06_c2_2f.tail (8188) 20070423232225: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 9393300 samples, 190640.625 ms, 1.1173 * realtime, peak -4.8408 dBfs 20070423232248: InguzDSP (version 0.9.20) -d 24 -id 00:04:20:06:c2:2f -wav -input F:\Music\Dark Side of the Moon\Track03.wav -r 44100 20070423232248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f This evaluation version will expire 11/1/2007 12:00:00 AM 20070423232248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Gain -16 dB 20070423232248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 20070423232248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f.eq 20070423232249: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423232249: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423232249: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 16/44100 PCM = 24/44100 PCM TRIANGULAR, gain -16 dB 20070423232736: InguzDSP (version 0.9.20) -wav -d 24 -id 00:04:20:06:c2:2f -r 44100 20070423232736: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f This evaluation version will expire 11/1/2007 12:00:00 AM 20070423232737: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Gain -16 dB 20070423232737: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 20070423232737: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f.eq 20070423232737: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423232737: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423232737: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 16/44100 PCM = 24/44100 PCM TRIANGULAR, gain -16 dB 20070423233206: InguzDSP (version 0.9.20) -wav -d 24 -id 00:04:20:06:c2:2f -r 44100 20070423233206: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f This evaluation version will expire 11/1/2007 12:00:00 AM 20070423233206: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Gain -16 dB 20070423233206: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 20070423233206: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f.eq 20070423233206: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233206: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233207: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 16/44100 PCM = 24/44100 PCM TRIANGULAR, gain -16 dB 20070423233216: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233216: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233216: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233216: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233223: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233223: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233228: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233228: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233237: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233237: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233246: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233246: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233246: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse (null), matrix (null) 20070423233246: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00E008B50B 20070423233247: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse HASH(0x5c9f9bc), matrix (null) 20070423233247: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use HASH(0x5c9f9bc): not found 20070423233247: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use Temp\44100_HASH(0x5c9f9bc): not found 20070423233247: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ0066C62429 20070423233247: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse HASH(0x5c9f9bc), matrix (null) 20070423233247: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use HASH(0x5c9f9bc): not found 20070423233248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use Temp\44100_HASH(0x5c9f9bc): not found 20070423233248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00CDA8D1C3 20070423233248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use : not found 20070423233248: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use Temp\44100_: not found 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse HASH(0x5c7e318), matrix (null) 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use HASH(0x5c7e318): not found 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use Temp\44100_HASH(0x5c7e318): not found 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ0011CDDAD2 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use : not found 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use Temp\44100_: not found 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse HASH(0x5c7e318), matrix (null) 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use HASH(0x5c7e318): not found 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use Temp\44100_HASH(0x5c7e318): not found 20070423233314: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f EQ00BEBA12A0 20070423233315: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use : not found 20070423233315: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Can't use Temp\44100_: not found 20070423233710: InguzDSP (version 0.9.20) -wav -d 24 -id 00:04:20:06:c2:2f -r 44100 20070423233710: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f This evaluation version will expire 11/1/2007 12:00:00 AM 20070423233710: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Gain -16 dB 20070423233710: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f 20070423233710: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Tail 00:04:20:06:c2:2f.eq 20070423233710: 00:04:20:06:c2:2f Impulse
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Directly to amp, stresses the Transporter?
Phil Leigh;197597 Wrote: Well...that says it all really: 1) Audi - good but not great 2) TT - Oh dear So you have paid over the odds (unless you bought used) welcome to he world of audiophilia :0) Gawd, don't you just love the men on this forum. If they can't kill off a thread with an agument about jitter, abxing or somesuch they try your car! MC -- ModelCitizen It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. Transporter Bryston 4B ST PMC OB1s. or not SB3 NAIM NAC 102 NAIM NAP 180 Shahinian Arcs http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34650 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
A cheap SMPS usually does put out a lot of noise, both on its output and on its input. CE (and, to a lesser extent, FCC) regulations place limits on: - the amount of energy radiated off the system as a whole between frequencies of 30MHz and 1GHz; - the amount of noise conducted back up the mains supply, between frequencies of 150kHz and 30MHz. So, it's perfectly possible for a PSU to be fully compliant to those standards, but to put out a lot of hash on the mains supply right through the audio band, and also to produce large amounts of noise on the DC output provided it doesn't radiate too much over 30MHz. The idea that it won't produce much noise because it's efficient is, I'm afraid, rubbish. The efficiency just means it won't get all that hot - nothing more. If it causes sound quality problems with the SB3, it'll be because of low impedance, high frequency switching noise on the DC output, which is hard to filter and therefore makes it through to the internal power rails. -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
tyler_durden;197708 Wrote: A large amount of noise on the DC output would be easily visible on an oscilloscope. I'll hook my scope up and try to take a picture and post it. Race you :) As I stated before, a 6W power supply can't possibly put a large amount of noise anywhere. It barely puts out a large amount of DC power! Oh, please, do the maths. The total signal power on a line level output is, say, 2V rms across 1kOhm, which is 4 milliwatts. How much power do you think might be needed to cause audible interference on that? A microwatt? High frequency noise (if there was any) is easily filtered by small capacitors and ferrite beads, and even by the inductance of the power cable leading to the SB3. My own experience would tend to suggest otherwise - SMPS switching noise is too low impedance for small caps to help much, and too high in frequency for big ones. Lossy (ie. resistive) ferrite beads seem to work best provided the voltage drop across them isn't a problem. A higher Q inductor runs the risk of just ringing like a bell. -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Got any last attenuation advice?
The last piece of my transporter puzzle (the amp) arrived and the new system goes live tonight. :) :) :) The setup is: Transporter-Krell Kav 2250-Martin Logan Summits Any last advice on the attenuation? I was going to set it to -30, listen, and move up as needed. Seems pretty simple. Any caveats? -- discocarp discocarp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7814 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Directly to amp, stresses the Transporter?
ModelCitizen;197629 Wrote: Gawd, don't you just love the men on this forum. If they can't kill off a thread with an agument about jitter, abxing or somesuch they try your car! MC Tee hee... The car is an easy one! -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34650 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Got any last attenuation advice?
discocarp;197733 Wrote: The setup is: Transporter-Krell Kav 2250-Martin Logan Summits Any last advice on the attenuation? I was going to set it to -30, listen, and move up as needed. Seems pretty simple. Any caveats? Remember that the built-in attenuators on the Transporter only work on the unbalanced outputs. If you were planning to use a balanced connection to the Krell (surely worth trying, if only to compare with the unbalanced option), you may need to hook up some external passive attenuation. -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
tyler_durden;197708 Wrote: Consensus among whom? I certainly don't agree with this. Yes, it is a possibility, but it is easily tested, and has been tested found not to be an issue with the SB3 and its stock PS. The SB3 has a relatively high powered radio transmitter in the SB3, as well as an internal switching supply to provide HV for the display. If you think a little 6W switching power supply located 6' away from the SB3 is going to muck things up worse than the internal switcher and radio transmitter, you have a very poorly developed sense of proportion. A large amount of noise on the DC output would be easily visible on an oscilloscope. I'll hook my scope up and try to take a picture and post it. As I stated before, a 6W power supply can't possibly put a large amount of noise anywhere. It barely puts out a large amount of DC power! And yes, the amount of EMI possible IS a function of the capacity of the power supply. A very high power supply is likely to radiate more than a wimpy little 6W power supply. High frequency noise (if there was any) is easily filtered by small capacitors and ferrite beads, and even by the inductance of the power cable leading to the SB3. While we're speculating about possible ways to muck up the sound, what do you guys use to protect against meteorites? One of those might REALLY screw up the sound! TD This is so off the mark I don't know where to start. A tiny neon bulb at the end of its life acts as a fantastically good RF transmitter. It's consuming almost no power but broadcasting RF rubbish which can interfere with TV, Radio etc. Obviously you must be lucky enough to have your gear inside a Faraday cage...(not). -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
slimkid;197718 Wrote: So, why else in the world, would anybody want to invest time and money in modifying anything? Even for hobby or learning purposes, how can one know he did it right if one can't tell by listening to it? I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from doing mods if they want to. But the OP seemed to be in danger of assuming that jitter is the thing that needs to be addressed, and I just wanted to point him at some tests that suggest he might be chasing the wrong bogey-man. -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Got any last attenuation advice?
Check. I was going RCA for this reason exactly even though both the transporter and the amp have XLR. Trying the balanced is an interesting idea, but I'll probably just wait. Someday I'll be adding a preamp to this setup when I want to run SACDs or another source. I'll almost certainly go balanced when/if that day comes. -- discocarp discocarp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7814 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
Here's the output from the standard (UK spec Unifive USK300520) SB3 power supply. Measurement bandwidth is probably only around 20MHz or so, my scope probe is rubbish and desperately needs upgrading. Load resistance is about 11 Ohms, so we're drawing a little under half an amp. Noise typically gets worse with increasing load. [image: http://www.cawte.nildram.co.uk/Jitter/KF8L2618.JPG] So, we see a switching frequency of about 200kHz, and about 10mV p-p of noise. That's actually remarkably good for a cheap little 'wall wart', though it's some way from being an audiophile-grade level of performance, and might explain why some people claim an upgrade is worthwhile. -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Active Speakers
Keith wrote: I've been using a pair of Fostex PM04's in the kitchen for a year and they work fine. Each unit is bi-amped. I originally had a pair of JBL Control 1's with a Quad 306 (oh and an attenuator due to the sensitivity of the other half to loud music! - even 1 on the SB2 was too loud) but wanted to get rid of the amp as I had another use for it. I needed something small enough not to swallow up too much of the worktop but still sound OK in their own right. These met the bill being (approx) 180mm deep (The units are 170mm deep but there is a heat-sink on the back), 145mm wide and 220mm high (that's 7 x 5.75 x 8.75). They cost about £100. (The light coloured plinth at the bottom is just there in case something gets spilt on the worktop) Do you really have them that close together??? You're not too bothered about soundstage in the kitchen then? :) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Active Speakers
Having them that close does have one advantage, you get excellent coupling of the bass drivers and noticeable extra low-freq. punch. I at least have my actives the width of an SB3 apart though. -- Andyoz Andyoz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23115 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Active Speakers
A friend of mine based in Italy who is quite an audiophile has a company selling these (www.auxout.com). I haven't listened to them myself, but the reviews are good and I have a lot of faith in David. --dan -- danaronson danaronson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=678 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23115 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Got any last attenuation advice?
discocarp;197741 Wrote: Check. I was going RCA for this reason exactly even though both the transporter and the amp have XLR. Trying the balanced is an interesting idea, but I'll probably just wait. Someday I'll be adding a preamp to this setup when I want to run SACDs or another source. I'll almost certainly go balanced when/if that day comes. The TP sounds markedly better with balanced in my system with my balanced Rowland amp. You might want to give it a try -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34801 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] I don't think it gets loud enough
Since you don't need attenuation you could try a set of XLR cables. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34811 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] I don't think it gets loud enough
2 Vrms is all she does. If you want more you need a preamp, or you might pop the cover on your amp and see if its gain can be adjusted. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34811 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What mods on SB3 REALLY make a difference in reducing jitter?
95bcwh;197749 Wrote: If all that matter is jitter..then why so many high end audio manufacturers manage to co-exist? There is the original data and jitter (timing). What else is there? All the computer folk (my self included) assumed a CD was just bits and ignored timing. Ok, we all agree timing is a factor. How much is still in question but I think we agree timing matters. That's it. There is nothing else the CD contains other than data and the rate they should be transmitted. EAC and frends take care of extracting the bits. SqueezeBox just needs to deliver them as close to 44.1Khz spaced evenly (low jitter). -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34749 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Modifying the Squeezebox 3
GaryB, Why didn't you use a 75ohm thin coax from the BNC connector connected upstream. Seems to me that would have been obvious todo if you bothered to change the connector. It would have been shielded as well as impedance match. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19822 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
