Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread willyhoops

 9/11 absolutely was an inside job, no possible doubt

I am curious - Is this a joke or do you really believe it?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread smst

About the honesty of customers:

http://www.freakonomics.com/article2.php

This is an interesting account of a bagel salesman and his belief that
honest people will stay honest without a bagel protection mechanism.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A photo of your Squeezebox setup (please)

2007-05-11 Thread kage


A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the
results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19817

Question: Should there be a new forum for photos?

- yes
- no
- maybe


i don't know a squeezebox yet but wow, i think it is starting to talk to
me now


-- 
kage

'*affordable Chinese Amp!
*'
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread willyhoops

thats a cool article...

 By measuring the money collected against the bagels taken, he could
 tell, down to the penny, just how honest his customers were...
 
 As it happens, his accidental study provides a window onto a subject
 that has long stymied academics: white-collar crime
 
 A street crime has a victim...But white-collar crime presents no
 obvious victim. Whom, exactly, did the masters of Enron steal from? And
 how can you measure something if you don't know to whom it happened, or
 with what frequency, or in what magnitude? 
 
 Paul F.'s bagel business was different. It did present a victim. The
 victim was Paul F. 
 
 [...and they didn't steal from him...]
 

This has a brilliant parallel in the file sharing debate... People who
would never steal cash from an old lady will happily go out and steal
from record companies by pirating thier CDs. Why? Becuase unlike Paul
F.'s bagel business they can't see who they are stealing from or how
much difference it is making. Great stuff.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread willyhoops

That's an interesting, optimistic and fun article. Freakonomics indeed.

But I think the problem is people can convince themselves that
something is not stealing when it is in order to justify their desires.
Rarely do you hear criminals saying I did it because I was greedy...
they usually come up with some lame justification like so and so
deserved it.

You can see on this forum that instead of admitting that they are
greedy as they pirate CDs many here have now developed a copyright
should be abolished and the record companies deserve it viewpoint. 

Also anyone who stole from Paul's bagel business could see the human
victim easily but with pirate cds they have to use their intellect to
grasp the significance of the problem. Clearly a problem if you think
Sep 11th was a plot...


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread discocarp

Well now that we've brought 9/11 into this thread I guess its time to
break this out...


+---+
|Filename: even kittens.jpg |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2788|
+---+

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread adamslim

discocarp;201250 Wrote: 
 Well now that we've brought 9/11 into this thread I guess its time to
 break this out...

Although interestingly, no Nazis yet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

Adam


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adamslim

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/
'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top
artists'
(http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists)

To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the
whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in
what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge
that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush
Snr, 1998

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread adamslim

willyhoops;201256 Wrote: 
 That's very interesting and sounds very strange. It's certainly not the
 way book publishng works which i have experience of.

You clearly have no idea of how the industry works.  Very few artists
recoup - generally only very big artists.  I have worked with small
record companies which often only have one or two in their portfolio of
hundreds of artists that are recouping.

Quality trolling sir :)

Adam


-- 
adamslim

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/
'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top
artists'
(http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists)

To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the
whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in
what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge
that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush
Snr, 1998

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread cliveb

willyhoops;201247 Wrote: 
 many here have now developed a copyright should be abolished and the
 record companies deserve it viewpoint.
The two are not connected. I do NOT believe that copyright should be
abolished, but I DO think that the big record companies deserve it.

It strikes me that you don't have a clue how typical recording
contracts operate, so here's a brief summary:

1. The record company advances the artist some money, in order to pay
for the recording.
2. The artist spends that money and makes their recording.
3. The recording belongs to the record company. (Seems fair, they've
paid for it, yes?)
4. The record company sells the recording, and from the proceeds the
artist gets a royalty.

Here's the gotcha:

5. EVERY SINGLE PENNY that the record company has spent on behalf of
the artist (which includes all of their advance, all of the marketing,
and all of the associated corporate hospitality - such as lunches for
the executives in swanky restaurants) is deducted from their
royalties.

The outcome is:

1. The artist has paid for a recording which now belongs to the record
company. This is morally indefensible.
2. Of course, the vast majority of recordings never recoup all of the
costs that the record companies accountants claim has been spent, so
the artist never actually makes any money at all.

Do you really think this is fair? Does a company which behaves like
this really deserve to have their business model protected?


-- 
cliveb

Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed
mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters?

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread willyhoops

Ah so these bum deals have generated a lot of publicity, thrown a lot of
confusion on the topic, and given the record companies a bad name. Still
maybe it's getting carried away to junk the whole industry on the basis
of that.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread adamslim

willyhoops;201261 Wrote: 
 Ah so these bum deals have generated a lot of publicity, thrown a lot of
 confusion on the topic, and given the record companies a bad name. Still
 maybe it's getting carried away to junk the whole industry on the basis
 of that.

It's not a matter of being a bum deal.  For a small independent record
company, they are taking unknowns and helping them to make records;
some work and do very well, while others flop.  It's a risk, and the
classic approach is to diversify the portfolio and hope you choose a
few good'uns.  In order to do well, a band needs a lot of promotion, so
there is a huge cost for a small label.

The problem comes with the big boys, who often sign the big names as
loss-leaders (just like the book industry!), and have to put huge
amounts through as recoupable expenses on the rest of their artists,
just to balance their books.  These artists never recoup.

So a small artist can either go with a small label, who will care about
them but is quite unlikely to make them into a new Britney Spears, or
they can go to a major, who might make them big but they'll never get
any money out of it until they have enough clout to renegotiate their
contract.  Of course, new bands are desperate for a contract, so will
often sign away all sorts of rights.

Naturally these are polarised examples spun rather negatively, but it
gives a taste of the situation.  The problem is that there is no better
business model out there at the moment, but it will change - it needs
to!  But DRM will not force a change in the right way.

Adam


-- 
adamslim

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/
'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top
artists'
(http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists)

To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the
whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in
what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge
that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush
Snr, 1998

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread cliveb

 Promotion costs *should* not be recoupable.
 Out-of-pocket expenses for promotional purposes, incurred by the artist
 *should* be reimbursed by the record company. 
 The record company *may* provide promotional tour support 
 Video costs are *usually* recoupable by 50%. The remaining 50% is
 recovered from commercial exploitation of the video.
Note the preponderance of non-committal words (which I have
highlighted). The Music For London site appears to be saying what
*ought* to happen. But it's not what happens in practice to an awful
lot of artists. Someone else has already referred you to Janis Ian's
well-known essay on the subject. She's not alone.


-- 
cliveb

Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed
mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters?

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread willyhoops

 5. EVERY SINGLE PENNY that the record company has spent on behalf of
 the artist (which includes all of their advance, all of the marketing,
 and all of the associated corporate hospitality - such as lunches for
 the executives in swanky restaurants) is deducted from their royalties.

That's very interesting and sounds very strange. It's certainly not the
way book publishng works which i have exxperience of. I did a search on
Google and came across this which said something silmilar:

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-royalties6.htm

but it sounded so strange i looked into more professional web sites
desinged for real artists needing adice. They mentioed confusion arounf
the iddue and then i found quite a good one:

http://www.musicforlondon.co.uk/MusicContractsSite/recording_agreements.htm

 ROYALTIES
 
 The rate is usually comprised between 10% and 14% of the retail price
 of the records sold or between 13% and 18%of the published price to the
 dealer. Indies usually redistribute 50%. 
 They are received after the recoupment of the advance and the recording
 and video costs. 
 
 PROMOTION
 
 Promotion costs should not be recoupable. 
 Out-of-pocket expenses for promotional purposes, incurred by the artist
 should be reimbursed by the record company. 
 The record company may provide promotional tour support 
 Video costs are usually recoupable by 50%. The remaining 50% is
 recovered from commercial exploitation of the video. 
 

You are clearly mistaken on EVERY SINGLE PENNY part but the deal is not
as sweet as I originally thought.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test

2007-05-11 Thread jhm731

tomjtx;200242 Wrote: 
 I will PM you

Tom-

Thanks for the PM.

It seems the traveling modified TP you heard went to a TP user in CA,
who was blown away by the improvement over his stock unit. 

He purchased the modified TP.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread servies

willyhoops Wrote: 
 That's very interesting and sounds very strange. It's certainly not the
 way book publishng works which i have experience of.
So you really don't know what you're talking about and now you admit
it.

 but it sounded so strange i looked into more professional web sites
 designed for real artists needing advice. Then i found quite a good one

You mean:
-but it sounded not the way I wanted it, so I found another one which
is better in my view.-

willyhoops;201261 Wrote: 
 Ah so these bum deals have generated a lot of publicity, thrown a lot of
 confusion on the topic, and given the record companies a bad name. Still
 maybe it's getting carried away to junk the whole industry on the basis
 of that.
Geez, again something which tells a lot about you. I wonder why you
have a squeezebox at all as probably you're only listening to Justing
Timberlake or Britney Spears or J'Lo.


-- 
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter listening test

2007-05-11 Thread tomjtx

jhm731;201268 Wrote: 
 Tom-
 
 Thanks for the PM.
 
 It seems the traveling modified TP you heard went to a TP user in CA,
 who was blown away by the improvement over his stock unit. 
 
 He purchased the modified TP.

I wonder if the Cali guy was using the rca out. I did hear a difference
with the rca outs between the 2 units. I think it would be a good value
to mod TP if you don't have the option of going balanced. If I had
heard only rca I would likely have bought the mod.

My blind tests were done with a high end dealer friend of mine who has
a great ear.

He carries Rowland , Watts ,Ayre and Slimdevices among many others.

He didn't hear a difference between stock and modded through the
balanced outs. He was very interested in the idea of modding TP .

In my close to two weeks of sighted listening I didn't hear a
difference, balanced.

This was with Rowland into Watt/Puppys so it is a pretty revealing,
high res system.

I am interested to hear the different mods this modder did to double
uglies TP.

DU loves his and he has a great system.

Right now I am guitar rich and cash poor :-)

Soon as I sell a guitar I plan to audition the mod that DU has.
I wouldn't want to have the modder send me a unit if I didn't have the
cash to buy if I liked it.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread johann

servies;201269 Wrote: 
 I wonder why you have a squeezebox at all as probably you're only
 listening to Justing Timberlake or Britney Spears or J'Lo.

Where's the conflict between owning and using a SB and listening to
(what I assume you mean) ultra commercial music or whatever you mean?

I wonder what more artists you include there


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread Pale Blue Ego

willyhoops;201198 Wrote: 
 I am curious - Is this a joke or do you really believe it?

Absolutely.  I won't debate the topic, only suggest that if you're
interested to research it yourself and draw your own conclusion.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone with a Bryston amp/dac and SB/Transporter - How does the Bryston dac sound ?

2007-05-11 Thread Anne

Sold my Micro Seiki BL51 turntable and all the records also.hit me
now then...

SB+ ?? What is that ? Link ...


-- 
Anne

Squeezebox 3  Stereovox XV2  Bryston B100-DA SST  Martin Logan Aeon
I.

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread discocarp

Pale Blue Ego;201284 Wrote: 
 I won't debate the topic...

Damn. Looks like I brought out my kittens jpg too early!


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread adamslim

discocarp;201296 Wrote: 
 Damn. Looks like I brought out my kittens jpg too early!

LOL this has been an entertaining thread, despite the OP being a level
80 troll.  I occasionally get rather attached to my ideas, but in order
to argue effectively, one always needs to recognise that others may know
stuff too.  Good fun though, plenty of good thoughts here :)

Adam


-- 
adamslim

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/
'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top
artists'
(http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists)

To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the
whole Arab world against us ... condemning [young soldiers] to fight in
what would be an un-winnable urban guerrilla war. It could only plunge
that part of the world into even greater instability - George Bush
Snr, 1998

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Looking for tiny amp!

2007-05-11 Thread Mark Lanctot

Animeka;200233 Wrote: 
 This looks interesting... How can I tell how it'll drive the Bose cube
 speakers I have and how loud they can go? (I don't play stadium loud
 but sometimes it's nice to know you can crank it a bit...)
 
 THanks,
 
 Marc

If these are off their Lifestyle system, the speakers cannot be
powered by anything other than what's in the Bose bass module.  The
bass module contains custom crossovers and filters and the speakers
will sound very, very poor without it.


-- 
Mark Lanctot

'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910postcount=2)

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Looking for tiny amp!

2007-05-11 Thread aubuti

Mark Lanctot;201301 Wrote: 
 If these are off their Lifestyle system, the speakers cannot be
 powered by anything other than what's in the Bose bass module.  The
 bass module contains custom crossovers and filters and the speakers
 will sound very, very poor without it.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the same applies to the Bose Acoustimass
speaker line as well.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Looking for tiny amp!

2007-05-11 Thread Mark Lanctot

Whoops, it was the Acoustimass system I was actually thinking about,
thanks aubuti!

Your comment may apply to the Lifestyle series as well though.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Anyone with a Bryston amp/dac and SB/Transporter - How does the Bryston dac sound ?

2007-05-11 Thread Deaf Cat

Anne, from what I understand, a SB+ is basically a wireless SqueezeBox
with only the wireless bit in tact, all the other bits have been
somewhat upgraded, to say the least :) 

http://www.at-tunes.co.uk/


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records now doing FLAC

2007-05-11 Thread Mark Lanctot

Ron F.;201084 Wrote: 
 It looks like bugs # 4886 and 4562 are relevant.

Also see 4463, where it was confirmed the TP can run out of CPU cycles
with certain combinations.


-- 
Mark Lanctot

'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!'
(http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910postcount=2)

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quality streaming music...

2007-05-11 Thread mmg_fan

my favorites:
radio io acoustic
radioparadise
kcrwmusic

shonanbeach fm


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records now doing FLAC

2007-05-11 Thread Jetlag

An issue I have run into is having the buffer empty to zero during the
song.

I downloaded a Claire Martin 24/96 FLAC album which I'm streaming
FLAC-FLAC via SS 6.5.1.2 on my Infrant NV (1GB RAM).  

I thought it might be a WIFI issue so I ran a cat5e cable to it from my
gigabit switch and the problem still occurs occaisionally.  I will
investigate more and post any discoveries.

Slightly OT, does anyone know for ecrtain if EAC will rip XRCDs or
XRCD24s bit-perfectly?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Flac or Apple Lossless?

2007-05-11 Thread tyler_durden

I hate to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) but I'll do it anyway...

ALAC is closed.  That means you don't know what they put in there.  Is
there a switch that allows apple to turn off files so they won't play
any more or can't be copied more than x times?  Is there something that
sends a message to apple every time you play one of those files on your
Mac/PC?

I recall that a couple years ago itunes switched off or reduced copy
capability in people's paid-for libraries without permission (other
than that afforded by the purchase contract that said they could modify
the terms at their will any time) or prior notice.  Were those file ALAC
encoded?

Proprietary formats suck.

TD


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] DRM lessons from the Squeezebox

2007-05-11 Thread jonDough

willyhoops,
Here is a better article that explains what goes on when recording an
album written by someone who was actually signed to a major.


http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/print.html


Also, for anybody thinking that non-drm'd music will not sell b/c
everybody will just trade it with their friends you might want to go
check out Allofmp3.  I think they are 2nd only to Itunes b/c of the
legality of their business model.

_JD_


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hardware Ripping - Help an audiogeek newbie

2007-05-11 Thread jbc

Ok, I downloaded EAC, the FLAC download and Accurate rip.

I followed the instructions on the Wiki for configuring EAC, and
everything seemed hunkydory. I followed the instructions on 'beginner
ripping' and everything seemed to go well.  The CD was copied, and it
said that it was using an 'external compression program'.

Two problems - 

1. The CD's are consistently listed as 'unknown' on EAC.  Does that
mean I'm not correctly connected to the requisite database?

2. When I clicked on the .mp3 icon (for ripping and compression), I
ended up with a nice folder of .wav files... so clearly the FLAC
compression didn't go.  For reference, I cut and pasted the following
into the command line options on EAC: -6 -V --replay-gain -T
artist=%a -T title=%t -T album=%g -T date=%y -T
tracknumber=%n -T genre=%m -T comment=EAC (Secure Mode) %s.  I
can only assume that's correct, but I wonder about the '--replay-gain.

I did manage to use the 'FLAC frontend' to successfully copy the .wav
files to .flac files - so the flac program is working.


If anyone can help me out, I'm willing to provide you with beer or
cartridge-mounting services.  


Thanks,
JBC


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