Re: Virtual Dynamics Power 3 � 2000% Profit Margin

2008-03-26 Thread adamslim

Yeah cutting out the EMI from the last metre, ignoring the 100+km agross
the grid, always struck me as kinda pointless.

I DIY'd my mains cables.  It's always satisfying to build something
yourself, and you mind less when the interesting experiment that shows
you can't hear any difference cost you just a few quid and was actually
quite fun.

I find it amazing that people pay loads for this stuff - you could get
an electrician come in and fit a dedicated spur for your hifi for the
same kind of amount.  That makes much more sense.

Anyway 2000%?  By the time you factor in distribution, retail
packaging, retail margins and so on, it will shrink rapidly.  Take the
$15 component cost and add:
$20 for labour and packaging = $35
$15 for a minimal manufacturer profit = $50
$10 for a small distro cost or postage to dealer = $60
$40 for a low (on cables) dealer margin = $100

So it's 3x overpriced, maybe.  I've seen worse!  What I find really
crappy is the poor build quality - for that there is no excuse.


-- 
adamslim

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have
others

SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff
SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES

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Re: Virtual Dynamics Power 3 � 2000% Profit Margin

2008-03-26 Thread morris_minor

Give the cat a medal! Or at least some smoked salmon fresh from a
Scottish Loch - for exposing what most of us know but couldn't afford
to prove :o)


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread rydenfan

mr_bill;283857 Wrote: 
 I posted on the Audiocircle forum on the Transporter thread asking the
 reviewers for the comparison to the stock Transporter, but that was
 blown off.
 
 In my mind - what's the point of just reviewing the modded Transporter
 without coomparing to the stock unit?  Maybe the stock unit is better,
 the same or .worse!
 
 Now that is the comparison we need to read about.

How were you blown off? this was Danny Kaey's response to you:

howdy... I won't be reviewing the stock TP per-se; I'll spend most of
the time in the Truth TP domain - I feel it eclipses the former by a
considerable margin as to devote an entire review to it when the Truth
TP is so much more...


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can you hear the difference?

2008-03-26 Thread ezkcdude

Are A  B switched randomly every time you play?

Edit: Well, I was too impatient, so I learned that indeed A and B are
always the same. In other words, don't take this test until you really
want to hear it on a good system. Otherwise, once you know the answer,
it's basically useless.


-- 
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There are 10 kind of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.
SHINYMETAL
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Re: Virtual Dynamics Power 3 � 2000% Profit Margin

2008-03-26 Thread bigfool1956

Pity about the newspaper style percentage. If something costs you $15,
and you direct retail it for $300, that's 95% profit, not 2,000%.

If you think different, then you are the corporate tax man's friend,
and I'm not employing you to do my company's accounts :)))


-- 
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David Ayers
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where is the Phase at the Transporters Connector?

2008-03-26 Thread bigfool1956

This should be a non-issue in the UK and the States (recent wiring), as
we have non-reversible mains plugs/sockets, and there is a standard way
of wiring live and neutral.

In Continental Europe, however, this is an issue, as the type C plug is
reversible, and so you often have no way of knowing which way round you
have connected live and neutral for any given appliance.

European mains cables and distribution boards produced for audio
systems usually have the hot pin marked in some way, to ensure
consistent plugging. I am informed that it does make a difference, but
as a UK consumer I have not experimented.


-- 
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David Ayers
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where is the Phase at the Transporters Connector?

2008-03-26 Thread SteveEast

bigfool1956;283913 Wrote: 
 This should be a non-issue in the UK and the States (recent wiring), as
 we have non-reversible mains plugs/sockets, and there is a standard way
 of wiring live and neutral.
 

In my experience it's very common to find outlets with reversed
polarity here in the US. So having a polarised plug doesn't always
help!

Steve.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where is the Phase at the Transporters Connector?

2008-03-26 Thread radish

I'm British but live in the US. Whilst the sockets in my house are
non-symmetrical and I have seen some plugs with one blade larger than
the other, the majority are symmetrical and will fit in the socket
either way around (this includes the SB PSU as it happens). I'm no
electrician but I'd always figured this was somehow related to the
devices in the UK which have no earth pin because they're double
insulated and so for these devices polarity wasn't important.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where is the Phase at the Transporters Connector?

2008-03-26 Thread Timothy Stockman

The issue in AC powered audio equipment is usually leakage-to-ground. 
This is caused by, among other things, inter-winding capacitance in the
power transformers and capacitors in mains-entry filters.  In the old
days, when everything was connected using 2-prong mains plugs,
sometimes one could empirically determine the best direction to orient
the plugs in an audio system with multiple mains connections.

In today's equipment, if it is properly designed, the overwhelming
majority of the leakage current should be conducted through the
third-wire ground on the mains plug, not the audio grounds
interconnecting the equipment, so polarity of the plug becomes much
less important from a standpoint of leakage.  That said, I usually try
to ensure that all audio equipment in a system is connected to the same
side of the neutral, rather than have it split across the neutral, thus
minimizing the potential leakage current.

Back when I used to do PA for live bands, I used to carry a couple
low-leakage, medical isolation transformers with my PA rig to deal with
leakage and hum problems in guitar amps.  Some guitar amps were designed
so bad that the guitar player, with his hands touching the metal
strings, would get a shock on his lips if they touched the metal
windscreen cage of the vocal mic.  A medical isolation transformer
always fixed that problem, as well as the hum it usually caused.


-- 
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where is the Phase at the Transporters Connector?

2008-03-26 Thread Pat Farrell
Timothy Stockman wrote:
 Some guitar amps were designed
 so bad that the guitar player, with his hands touching the metal
 strings, would get a shock on his lips if they touched the metal
 windscreen cage of the vocal mic.  A medical isolation transformer
 always fixed that problem, as well as the hum it usually caused.

Those same guitar amps are much desired even today. The classic Fender 
and Marshal amps could easily shock you in setups such as Tim writes. 
Most than a few guitarists got very nasty shocks. I don't know if there 
were reported deaths, but the electrocution possibility is real.

Of course, when folks replace the awful two prong plugs with modern safe 
ones, it lowers the value of the amp. Sigh


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where is the Phase at the Transporters Connector?

2008-03-26 Thread bigfool1956

Taking me back now. I used to be the sound engineer at the Top Rank
Southampton. Everyone in the company was very twitchy, as a couple of
years before I joined the guitarist in Stone The Crows had been
electrocuted and killed on stage at the Top Rank Swansea. RCDs had been
fitted everywhere, and I lost count of the number of times they got
tripped because of some guest band's dodgy stage gear.

Another thing I recall is going through every microphone cable we had
making sure the connections where all in the same phase. That made a
huge difference to the quality of the sound mix. (OK OK I know that's
not mains)


-- 
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David Ayers
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital room correction on Linux

2008-03-26 Thread Klaas

See this post:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45347


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread mr_bill

rydenfan;283865 Wrote: 
 How were you blown off? this was Danny Kaey's response to you:
 
 howdy... I won't be reviewing the stock TP per-se; I'll spend most of
 the time in the Truth TP domain - I feel it eclipses the former by a
 considerable margin as to devote an entire review to it when the Truth
 TP is so much more...



I was referring to my post to Srajaen earlier - not Danny.

If I would have known that you are analyzing my posts, I would have
clarified that.


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Re: Virtual Dynamics Power 3 � 2000% Profit Margin

2008-03-26 Thread bigfool1956

Actually what the article describes is properly called 'markup'. Gross
profit is what I described, and net profit before tax is what was
described by adamslim, except he also included the dealer percentage,
which is of course a factor in the final price.

And in this case normal usage does not equal correct.


-- 
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David Ayers
Music is what counts, hifi just helps us enjoy it more

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread rajacat

tomjtx;283628 Wrote: 
 Now now ,Adam, of course there was a point. I don't respect loony tune
 reviewers like srajean, Kaey and others of their ilk.
 
 I do respect your taste in music a great deal , however.
 So I'm not all bad :-)
 
 I do have to go away soon tonight. A swedish classical guitarist is in
 town and we are performing informally at my favorite cafe tonight.
 
 I need to go practice so we can have truth in music modwright style.
 
 Hey, if I hang some tubes on my classical guitar will it sound better?
 I need to ask Srajean.
 
 Disclaimer: I have a tube headphone amp and a classic Macitosh amp and
 I love them both.

Sand amps have their colorations too! Every amp that I've owned had
it's own flavor. Actually, you can just change a cap or two in most
good amps and there will probably be a slightly different sound
quality. If sand amps don't color the sound they should all sound the
same, eh?

-Roy 

BTW how can you judge the Modwright TP if you've never auditioned one
and performed a supervised blind A/B?


-- 
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread ted_b

Back in the old days we would flavor our recordings with tone controls. 
Nowadays we do it with amps, cables and modifications.  

What I and others have said about the Modwright Transporter should not
be taken as the stock one sucks but instead the Transporter is such
a great device and proves that Slim Devices/Logitech is wa ahead of
the competition.  I'd never attempt to throw sand, glass and money at a
Sonos or Klimax system in an effort to create a different sounding
giant-killer.

The Modwright Transporter, in my well-treated room, with my fairly high
resolution system, to my ears, is significantly more musical, revealing
and enjoyable than the stock Transporter I owned for some time.  My
comments can be seen in the 6Moons review, but simply enough: it's
clearly a synergy thing.  If you believe your stock Transporter's
unique sound combines well with the rest of your system, then so be it.
Don't make a change.  Just go buy more cd's and rip them.  In my
system, the Modwright version was much more organic sounding, yet even
more dynamic (huge power supply probably helps here a LOT) had a much
larger truer soundstage, and the air around each instrument was
noticeably better and clearer.  I won't attribute all of this to Dan's
Transporter mods.  Some of it is magic...the magic of those tumblers
falling into place...not too sweet, not too sour.  My Tesla cables, my
Soundstring cables, my Modwright preamp, the tubes I've chosen, the
McCormack DNA-500 amp, the room treatments (large use of Realtrap bass
traps, first reflection RFZ's and diffusors) all enter into this
recipe.  But the stock Transporter, in my system, was too analytical
and cold for my tastes, and would not have allowed me to make the
flavor changes required...IMHO.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread tomjtx

rajacat;284015 Wrote: 
 Sand amps have their colorations too! Every amp that I've owned had it's
 own flavor. Actually, you can just change a cap or two in most good amps
 and there will probably be a slightly different sound quality. If sand
 amps don't color the sound they should all sound the same, eh?
 
 -Roy 
 
 BTW how can you judge the Modwright TP if you've never auditioned one
 and performed a supervised blind A/B?

Hi Raj, long time no see :-)
Exactly. I don't have an opinion on the MW TP as to whether or not it
sounds as good as the TP.

Modwright put out good product so I suspect it is possible they didn't
make it worse spec wise.

I suspect, since it has tubes, it sounds different.


For me to establish a preference I would have to ab them sighted and
blind .

Most the MW TP owners have not made a direct comparo and I do take
issue with their claims of sonic superiority.
Preference is another matter and is subjective.


-- 
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where is the Phase at the Transporters Connector?

2008-03-26 Thread Phil Leigh

pfarrell;283945 Wrote: 
 Timothy Stockman wrote:
  Some guitar amps were designed
  so bad that the guitar player, with his hands touching the metal
  strings, would get a shock on his lips if they touched the metal
  windscreen cage of the vocal mic.  A medical isolation transformer
  always fixed that problem, as well as the hum it usually caused.
 
 Those same guitar amps are much desired even today. The classic Fender
 
 and Marshal amps could easily shock you in setups such as Tim writes. 
 Most than a few guitarists got very nasty shocks. I don't know if there
 
 were reported deaths, but the electrocution possibility is real.
 
 Of course, when folks replace the awful two prong plugs with modern
 safe 
 ones, it lowers the value of the amp. Sigh
 
 
 -- 
 Pat Farrell
 http://www.pfarrell.com/

It was not the amps (I have several!!! - Marshall, Vox etc) - it was
the rubbish wiring in the venues.

UK amps have always (since the 60's anyway) had 3-pin plugs with a
proper earth/ground.


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
Supertweeters, Kimber  Chord cables

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread rajacat

Phil Leigh;284056 Wrote: 
 You clearly can't distinguish improved from different...
 What is the problem here? Sticking some valves across the o/p is going
 to make it sound different for sure...and some people will prefer that
 sound which is fine. But it is not better in any absolute sense -
 just different.

It's hard to speak in absolutes since we all react differently to sound
by virtue of our unique hearing tools i.e shape of ear canals etc., etc.
So really there is nothing to argue about! ha, ha   Maybe you could
argue if change can be affected through the addition of tubes,
different caps or whatever...


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Re: Virtual Dynamics Power 3 � 2000% Profit Margin

2008-03-26 Thread GuyDebord

although this profit margin that you are arguing on is completely
wrong, it excludes 2 incredibly important factors that determine the
commodity value: labor and technology (im not claiming that the cable
is high tech, but technology is involved in the production). Without
mentioning costs like marketing, representation, distribution, etc.
Suddenly the 15 dollars of components are worth so much more, arent
they? This is elementary economics...


-- 
GuyDebord

Reference3A RoyalMaster monitors biwired with v/d Hul Inspiration, REL
Strata5. AMPS: Pathos Classic One MKIII's in mono config. ANALOGUE:
Clearaudio Ambient CMB, Satisfy Carbon  Lyra Helikon SL, ASR MiniBasis
Exclusive preamp, link: WireWorld SilverEclipse 5.2. DIGITAL:
SlimDevices Transporter, link: AcousticZen Silver Reference2 XLR’s.
POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech
SPX30 MKII (Transporter), v/d Hul Mainstream (Pathos)  v/d Hul
Mainserver (ASR).

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread rajacat

xand1x;284050 Wrote: 
 x2. Srajan's review would have been more credible if he compared it to a
 stock transporter in all fairness. I highly doubt financial constraint
 was a limiting factor either =\

I agree. Srajan should have had a stock TP on hand as a reference.

-Roy


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get SC7 with firmware v83?

2008-03-26 Thread kmchow98

I was using slimserver v6.5.4 for a long time... recently, I decided to
take the plunge and try out SC7. Which was suppose to be better.

1st of all, I never bothered myself with firmware revisions until I
upgraded to SC7. I never bothered finding out about if different
firmware version should make any audible differences... (I use a DAC,
with fixed digital out and preamp set to 63)

Apparently it did(not placebo). The moment I listened to SC7 with
firmware 86, I felt something was not right, I could not have extended
listening sessions because it caused listening fatigue. (strange)

Now I have returned to v6.5.4 which I know sounds very good. (No more
listening fatigue). This uses firmware 81.
(I tried to update it to v83, but MS Vista isn't very happy)

I understand that some beta versions of SC7 came with v83. Now I want
that. Can someone tell me where I can pick that one up?


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get SC7 with firmware v83?

2008-03-26 Thread kmchow98

Nevermind. I manage to update the firmware with v83 on v6.5.4.

woo hoo


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can you hear the difference?

2008-03-26 Thread th00ht

I'd say it depends on the music you are listening to. Eurotrash: no
difference (actually 24kbit sounds the best) Jazz: 192VBR or 320CBR are
not enough. Listen to the decaying cymble with headphone/good speakers.
Choral/orchestral works: only FLAC 24/96 is acceptable.


-- 
th00ht

SqueezeBox v3, SqueezeCenter (7.0.1 - 17793)
Quad 303 + Two Quad Electrostats

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread haunyack

tomjtx;284122 Wrote: 
 
 ... comparo between the two.
 ...do a realtime comparo...
 ...ted did a direct comparo...
 

comparo.
Jeez, I just cannot...hmm

http://www.comparo.co.uk/   _?

.


-- 
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Transporter | BK 200.2 | Vandersteen 3A Signature
C.G. Conn New York Wonder

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread tomjtx

haunyack;284129 Wrote: 
 Ah yes ;-)
 Thought you may have coined a new buzz word.
 When I hear the term comparo again, I will attribute it to tomjtx.
 
 .

Alas, I cannot take credit, that is a word oft used on head-fi.

Do not go gentle into the night
rage against the dying of the light
do a comparo blind without sight


-- 
tomjtx

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ModWright Transporter experience: truth vs. beauty?

2008-03-26 Thread haunyack

tomjtx;284132 Wrote: 
 Alas, I cannot take credit, that is a word oft used on head-fi.
 
 Do not go gentle into the night
 rage against the dying of the light
 do a comparo blind without sight

Sorry 'bout the hijack y'all.

head-fi, this newbie will check that out.
Phones?
I'm yet to explore that world of internal soundstage.

Still, in my mind comparo := tomjtx

Happy doodles!
Anyone know who coined THAT term?
snarlydwarf might.

.


-- 
haunyack

Transporter | BK 200.2 | Vandersteen 3A Signature
C.G. Conn New York Wonder

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where to get SC7 with firmware v83?

2008-03-26 Thread Phil Leigh

so 83 is the new 15? (oh God)


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann
JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC
V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1
system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend
Supertweeters, Kimber  Chord cables

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