Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audiophiles and oenophiles
Jitterbug;300249 Wrote: In that respect it is not just about preference, it is about the first group of people not perceiving differences which are noticable by the second. For this reason, there may be clear parallels with the audiophile world, and in the failure of some to notice differences in DBT tests. But even the self-proclaimed golden-eared (who by your argument are the ones that should be able to detect these subtle differences) routinely fail DBTs. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47395 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audiophiles and oenophiles
radish;300243 Wrote: Why does the fact that someone who drinks a lot of wine invalidate the preference of someone who doesn't? What defines what is better in a wine? Does better mean preferred by some specific person? The thing with wine is that it's _all_ about preference, all that matters is that the person drinking it likes it. You might think it tastes like pigswill, and that's just fine. With audio on the other hand, there is at least one objective aim, which is accuracy to the source material. Once you get into the subjective (I _prefer_ the sound of this amp) then science goes out the window, and frankly, it's not worth talking about as everyone's preference is their own. And that's ignoring the fact that the vast majority of DBT testing of audio gear is about deciding whether there's a difference at all, not whether there's a preference. If the wine people all agree that the wine tastes different, they just don't agree on which is best I'd say you're right back into the subjective - which isn't where most arguments on this forum tend to lie. Basically I agree. The challenge is...how do we assess accuracy to the source? Since we all hear the source differently, we all have a different baseline. The only way to do this meaningfully is to have the real source in the room, and compare it with a recording of it. Even though we all hear the recording and the source differently, at least we can indvidually do an apples to apples comparison. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47395 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audiophiles and oenophiles
If they're talking about two buck chuck (grocery wine), versus $55 Napa Cab, then shouldn't we be talking about an A/V receiver that makes everything sound the same, versus an accurate system. I actually *like* my system because it's ruthlessly revealing, but I'm sure some would prefer their A/V receiver and Bose speakers because it makes ALL their albums sound 'good'. But when the differences end it does seem silly to wax eloquent on the benefit of speaker cable A vs B, or this particular vintage decanted and drank from Reidel, vs paper cups. -- Skunk http://www.last.fm/user/TheSkunk/ Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47395 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Analog sound Xbox 360 vs SB3?
I am thinking based on the design of the Squeezebox, it should exceed the 360 in terms of audio performance. In general, how does streaming lossless files across the SB3 using its analog outs compare to playing the same tracks on a CD using something comparable to my oppo? I truly feel the xbox is to blame in my current setup. The CD sounds so much fuller crip in comparison. I am very intersted in the SB3 and will probably pick one up very soon. Also, I have read many people mod the different units for improved SQ, would it make more sense to mod the SB or buy a sepearte DAC and run its digital output into that instead? Thanks again, Brandon -- bigbwb bigbwb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17407 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47401 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audiophiles and oenophiles
cliveb;300346 Wrote: But even the self-proclaimed golden-eared (who by your argument are the ones that should be able to detect these subtle differences) routinely fail DBTs. That's true. Mine wasn't an argument as such; I don't buy into much audiophile marketing. However, I thought there were a few nice insights that could be taken from these studies and applied to this hobby, especially the point on the refinement on the senses. -- Jitterbug Jitterbug's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4955 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47395 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] audiophiles and oenophiles
...when based on personal preference alone, doesn't mean much. However, I think it's somewhat silly to let the casual observer's opinion have just as much value as the opinion of someone who has dedicated a lot of time to educate themselves on a topic, irrational as that dedication may be. I both enjoy good sound and good wine. In both cases I know enough and I have invested enough time into the subject to explain my personal opinion on what makes something better with some observations, rather than just categorically state so based on pure seat of the pants feel. In both cases I don't get dragged nor do I feel that I have the ultimate urge to go for the more esoteric expressions of the craft. The utter flights of fancy are lost on me, but I respect the people that go for it. *If* and *when* I listen to true experts that take me further down the road, pointing out an element in the wine's nose, color or taste I had overlooked, I think it is a great moment. So no, I don't believe everybody's opinion on what is better counts the same as far as I am concerned. There are extremes to both sides: those who simply feel entitled to express opinions without having made an effort to know what they talk about, and then there are those who are either a tad too obsessed and borderline derranged, or simply pose based on the premise that throwing more $$$ at something can make them compensate for lack of knowledge... The reasonable people in the middle spectrum with an idea of what they talk about, and the will to exchange opinions without getting caught up in dogma... those are the ones that I personally listen to and learn from. -- pablolie pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47395 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Analog sound Xbox 360 vs SB3?
Most computer-style soundcards that resample from 44.1 to 48khz do it badly, and you can hear it the most in the treble. It sounds like someone threw a towel over the speakers. Some are particularly bad; the USB Audigy 2NX, for example, is just appalling. If you can hear a clear difference between a CD and WMA lossless, then it's the XBox's resampling that's almost certainly the issue. The Squeezebox Classics have an excellent DAC; I don't know about the new ones. If you play a lossless file through one, you should get sound that's at _least_ as good as your CD, and very possibly better. There's no resampling going on, and the DAC is a nice Burr-Brown part. It's an older, cheaper DAC, but it's still excellent. You should solve your problem very nicely with a Squeezebox. If you can tell a difference between the two, you'll probably prefer the Squeezebox. -- Malor Malor's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1961 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47401 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Analog sound Xbox 360 vs SB3?
Malor, Thanks for the help. I figured that the conversion from 44.1 to 48khz was the downfall for the xbox. Its funny you mention that it sounds like someone through a towel over the speakers because thats how i felt when I compared the 360 to my CD player. I had mentioned the sound was dull in my first post and you also feel the same way. What is the difference between the classic new SB? The site only shows the classic now anyway with burr brown DACS as you mentioned. Has the newer unit took a step down in any way? I may try to score a deal on a used one to save a few bucks too:) Thanks! Brandon -- bigbwb bigbwb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17407 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47401 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] live recordings!
I haven't downloaded too many Hi-Rez shows, but have found numerous shows with great sound quality. I don't have access to the specific shows right now, but some of the artists are: Blues Traveler Cowboy Junkies Charlie Hunter David Gans Derek Trucks Garaj Mahal Glen Phillips Jason Mraz Little Feat (esp. older stuff) Robert Randolph Tea Leaf Green If MP3s are available for a particular show, I'll preview with my SB3 and then download the lossless files if the sound quality is acceptable. pete -- widman widman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8695 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=46630 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs
42 has been checked in. -- andyg andyg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47315 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs
Installed FW42 (along with a recent version of 7.1), did some testing. So far so good, no noise bursts, beeps, peeps, cracks, plopping what-so-ever. The only thing I found that was slightly out of the ordinary, was a slowdown in the menu when using the remote, got slow response. This only happened once though. (it occurred while changing the volume). Only the near future can tell if this really fixes all the problems with the digital in's (noise bursts etc) as I only tested it for like 10 times in different sequences. but for now: Great job Sean!! -- Heimiko Transporter - XLR Attenuators (-20db) - Electrocompaniet AW100 DMB - Dynaudio Audience 122 ___ #9492; BK Monolith Analog modded SB3 - tube buffer - Trends Audio TA-10 - Eltax Monitor III Heimiko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3462 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47315 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs
Thanks for your efforts guys on getting FW42 to us so soon. -- xand1x Linksys WRT54G -- Slim Devices Transporter (Black) -- First Watt F1 -- AKG K1000 xand1x's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14838 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47315 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] FW42, and revisiting some FW40 bugs
Downloaded latest/7.1 Mac OSX Disk Image and installed successfully and did the firmware update on the transporter, but I am still at FW40. Any help will be appreciated. Obviously, I'm missing a step or two here. Thanks, Rob Stone -- Rob Stone Rob Stone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13081 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47315 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
