Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Am I imagining this? Squeezecentre 7.3 sounds worse than 7.2.1?
Stratmangler;397200 Wrote: Having been shot at for suggesting that there are audible differences between various versions of Squeezecenter/firmware I have kept quiet on the subject. Then this software was brought to my attention http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm I decided to download the software and have a play. I recorded a track using Goldwave (John Martyn - Over The Hill), then recorded the same track again with no changes to the settings. The first track was tagged as Over The Hill 7.3.2 , the second as Over The Hill 7.3.2 Control. Both tracks were edited for length (later problems with processing with Audio Diffmaker - it's a very resource hungry program - gave me cause to cut the tracks down to 1 minute). I then copied and pasted the tracks into Audio Diffmaker and then loaded these files into the relevant areas and set the program to extract the audio (audible) differences. After processing I listened to the difference file and heard what I'd hoped for - nothing. So far so good. I then uninstalled 7.3.2 , cleaned up the system with CCleaner, rebooted the system, then installed Squeezecenter 7.4 beta. After setting up the player audio properties to the same settings as the previous Squeezecenter installaton, I then set about recording the track again. The track was labelled as Over The Hill 7.4 and again cut down to length, then copied and pasted into Audio Diffmaker. The 7.3.2 track was loaded as the reference track, and the 7.4 track loaded as the compared track. The program was then set to extract the differences between tracks. After processing I listened to the difference file and heard high frequency audio information. It was quite low in amplitude, but there was a difference ! The resultant files can be can be found here http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/chris/ As nothing had been changed on the recording machine the only assumption I can make is that there are audible differences between at least the two versions of Squeezecenter/firmware used. I've ended up uninstalling 7.4 and doing the cleanup act/reboot thing and reinstalling 7.3.2 . I feel that 7.4 has a darker sound than 7.3.2, and ultimately prefer the latter. YMMV. Chris :) Chris - I downloaded your files and am analysing them now. What DAC did you use?. The difference track is -70/-80db down. The noise floor contains a lot of quantization noise (not the white noise I'd expect to hear) - sounds like a computer program loading from a cassette tape in the 80's :) I have this track and will attempt to replicate your recordings. Regards Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - Altmann JISCO - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=56591 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
Yeah that Linn hack for making the DSs work with SqueezeCenter is such a good idea. I had hoped that Logitech would license their systems to audiophile manufacturers (Linn, Meridian, Naim, Arcam etc), offering a good revenue stream (together with lots of sales of Booms etc for second systems), but it appears not to be. Oh well -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, dCS Purcell Elgar, Audion Pre, Welborne DRD 300B SETs, Lowther Big Fun Horns with PM6As adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;397301 Wrote: I'll try it... thanks! Sounds like you have many happy hours in front of you :) -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
JezA;397332 Wrote: Sounds like you have many happy hours in front of you :) for happy replace interesting :) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - Altmann JISCO - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifi Wigwam show in the UK
Theres a few of the guys going to the show taking their hi-end CD players and doing a direct comparison with the Transporter and SB3/Dac. I think a lot of assumptions are going to be broke after this show. Predjuduces even Over on the 'Wam I had to jump to the defence of a guy who was taking a hammering for suggesting a Squeezebox and Dac could compete withe some of the more hallowed CD players. The Thread turned into a bit of a bunfight to be honest - usual forum behaviour I suppose. Anyway, I await the results! -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Just compared Mozart Requiem in D - Sanctus (Linn CD) as FLAC vs 135 mp3 vs 225 MP3 (VBR). This is the first test I've done where the difference track is audible without boosting the difference track - really very interesting... I'd like someone else to corroborate my findings. I'd say this track is a good killer Mp3 test track. The compression algorithm clearly decides to throw out some of the massed vocals...and hall ambience. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - Altmann JISCO - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;397359 Wrote: Just compared Mozart Requiem in D - Sanctus (Linn CD) as FLAC vs 135 mp3 vs 225 MP3 (VBR). This is the first test I've done where the difference track is audible without boosting the difference track - really very interesting... I'd like someone else to corroborate my findings. I'd say this track is a good killer Mp3 test track. The compression algorithm clearly decides to throw out some of the massed vocals...and hall ambience. Interesting. You can download it in varying resolutions from the Linn site. I was at the original live performance in Glasgow - just before the recording was made in Dundee. A truly great experience. Why anyone would want any less than the maximum possible resolution from such a recording is beyond me, and so is why any credence is given to some clown with a compression algorithm claiming he can decide what bits of Mozart can be thrown away. -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Interesting thread we have here. I always learned that in music there are many overtones which on their own might not be heard by the humen ear but they do add to the sound and soundstage and when removed from the music you can hear a difference. Maybe mp3 compression takes away the overtones and that is why flac sounds better then mp3, even at 320. The difference between mp3 (at 320) and flac is many times not audible (to me) but especially with classical/jazz sometimes I think i can hear the difference. -- raven22 raven22's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
I have just removed the Altmann JISCO+UPCI from my chain as it is making NO difference at all -92dB correlation with them in/out of the chain! Seems that despite many theories to the contrary, the TACT ASRC is actually rather good at rejecting input jitter... or maybe the Altmann gear is doing nothing to that jitter... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Robin Bowes;397158 Wrote: Phil Leigh wrote: OK - I think I've got it! What would be helpful is a batch convertor to go from FLAC to MP3 ... I'll do some research... *cough* http://projects.robinbowes.com/flac2mp3 R. oops - (makes gesture of embarassment and begs forgiveness) - and I've had this on my PC for ages! Thanks Robin - super utility! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;396912 Wrote: I'm concentrating on the SB3 digital output for now: Things that make NO discernible difference to what goes into my amps: 1) playing WAV vs FLAC 2) streaming FLAC native vs streaming FLAC as PCM 3) muting SB analogue stage (attenuation=63) 5) wired vs wireless (SB-router) 6) £20 spdif coax (1.5m) vs £200 Kimber D-60 coax (1.5m) (SB-TACT) - awaiting another cable for TACT-DAC tests 7) toslink vs coax (!) SB-TACT 8) stock PSU vs reasonable quality linear PSU 9) standard UK mains cable into DAC PSU vs costly shielded one 10) Display brightness of SB3 Things that make a tiny,tiny difference: 1) FLAC vs bitrate limiting via LAME to 256 Things still to test: TACT (in bypass mode) in/out of circuit upsampling of TACT output (currently set at 96) JISCO in/out Tube Buffer in/out cheap vs expensive analogue interconnects mains filters in/out vibration support(s) for SB/TACT/DAC (with music audible in room) other lame rates sb digital level control firmware It would be useful if others could comfirm or deny any of my findings so far... Is it possible to add Transporter vs. SB3 to the list (both digital output and analogue output, 44.1/16, 96/24 and 192/24 stereo)? -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Playing back multichannel (5.1) 96/24 WAV files
Phil Leigh;396302 Wrote: There is no standard for WAV at those rates - a non-standard header is employed by whatever created it. Convert it to FLAC. It should play fine. Indeed, thanks. Converting to FLAC resolved stability issues I had with WAV files -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
No licensing needed, Linn could have decided to make their stuff SB compatible based on open specs but clearly decided not to. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
Based on what I heard on dem'ing a Majik DS, and comments elsewhere, I would guess that the Majik would be very close to the Transporter on overall SQ. -- Mr_Sukebe SB+, Bel Canto Evo2i, Impulse Ta'us, Coherent system cables, Stillpoints Mr_Sukebe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
michael123;397420 Wrote: Is it possible to add Transporter vs. SB3 to the list (both digital output and analogue output, 44.1/16, 96/24 and 192/24 stereo)? I'd love to but I don't have a TP! (also neither the TP nor the SB can handle 192/24...) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter pops when switching to 24/96?
I just received my first transporter after running most of the SB's and Duet since they started. I am using the Coax digital out to a Musical Fidelity Trivista DAC-21. All music is lossless FLAC. When switching from a standard 16/44 FLAC, to a 24/96 FLAC the unit makes a distinctive pop. While the song/file is playing there is no problem but when switching back to another 16/44 FLAC, there is another pop. I would hate to have to send the unit back. I also happen to have a second unit around for a client, so will also test with this machine to see if its possibly hardware related. Anyone have any other suggestions? ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;397359 Wrote: Just compared Mozart Requiem in D - Sanctus (Linn CD) as FLAC vs 135 mp3 vs 225 MP3 (VBR). This is the first test I've done where the difference track is audible without boosting the difference track - really very interesting... I'd like someone else to corroborate my findings. I'd say this track is a good killer Mp3 test track. The compression algorithm clearly decides to throw out some of the massed vocals...and hall ambience. Now this is really getting silly with all these requests to check Lossless against MP3 and the like. Of course there is a glaring difference, anything other then lossless throws away information! The idea behind this software is to compare equipment and connection components against each other, not tracks or formats as the source track is a Major Constant in the theory. And to do that *REQUIRES* that the same source track be used to even have a chance at a creditable test result IE identical track A is recorded then component/cable X is swapped and identical track A is recorded again then subtracted from the first recording leaving the difference so if identical tracks are not used, the resultant has no value! If two different test tracks are used, there has to be a noticeable difference or the software isn't worth using in the first place! It's a known and already proven fact that MP3 is inferior to FLAC. -- iPhone *iPhone* 'Last.FM' (http://www.last.fm/user/mephone) Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, Vandersteen Quatro, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: SB3, GFR-700HD, Thiel 2.3, Second Boom Home Office: SB3, NAD C370, two VSM-1 Home Gym: SB3, Parasound Vamp v.3, Thiel PowerPoint 1.2 Mobile: SB3, Audioengine A5 iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
iPhone;397499 Wrote: Now this is really getting silly with all these requests to check Lossless against MP3 and the like. Of course there is a glaring difference, anything other then lossless throws away information! The idea behind this software is to compare equipment and connection components against each other, not tracks or formats as the source track is a Major Constant in the theory. And to do that *REQUIRES* that the same source track be used to even have a chance at a creditable test result IE identical track A is recorded then component/cable X is swapped and identical track A is recorded again then subtracted from the first recording leaving the difference so if identical tracks are not used, the resultant has no value! If two different test tracks are used, there has to be a noticeable difference or the software isn't worth using in the first place! It's a known and already proven fact that MP3 is inferior to FLAC. Actually I disagree. Until I did this test, I had NO idea exactly what kind of information was being discarded in the MP3 compression process. Now I do. This has been very informative. I won't be using MP3 anytime soon. Obviously there are many people in the world who'd like to claim that you can't hear the difference between high rate MP3 and lossless. Well, the differences might be unnoticeable on many tracks but on many others it is pretty apparent. Therefore I contend it is a valuable use of the tool to compare versions of tracks, just as it is valid to use a constant track to compare differences in equipment. The software doesn't know the origin of the files - it just does what it does. Both use-cases are valid. For example, anyone want to guess what happens if you compare a true 24/96 track against its downsampled equivalent... :) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
What he said. Also I'd really like to hear more about how the app is driven since I found the UI quite complex. But at the same time, I can appreciate the initial temptation to hear the actual *differences* i.e. only the differences, between lossy lossless, espec as it's not been easy to do this for many ppl before. -- mr-b mr-b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10044 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
mr-b;397505 Wrote: What he [iphone] said. Also I'd really like to hear more about how the app is driven since I found the UI quite complex. But at the same time, I can appreciate the initial temptation to hear the actual *differences* i.e. only the differences, between lossy lossless, espec as it's not been easy to do this for many ppl before. Yes, well I've finished listening to MP3 now. The UI is not the best I've ever used - it took me maybe 30 mins to do my first test. However now I can do one in a matter of minutes. Really it's quite straightforward: 1) record your reference track using the built in recorder and your soundcard(connect SB or DAC to the line-in and use the windows or soundcard mixer to set levels. You need 15-20 seconds of music. I start a track in SC and then when the timer hits 10 seconds I hit record in the software and hit stop record when the timer hits 30 seconds. Save this as your reference track 2) make the change - for example, connect a different cable between SB and DAC - and then repeat the record process and save as your compared track. 3) hit the extract button and wait... That's it. The software does a pretty good job of adjusting level and start/end points of the two versions of the recording. The only default setting I think is wrong is that sample rate adjustment is not selected by default - on the advanced settings page, check this option before hitting the extract button. This will counteract the drifting clocks of the source device - almost perfectly. The software can do plenty of other things but that's a bit off-topic... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 wired + Stontronics PSU - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans,Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
Mr_Sukebe;397446 Wrote: Just read some comments elsewhere by people who've run direct comparisons between the various DS products and the transporter. In short, the people in question preferred every one of the DS range to the Tranporter, even the cheapest Sneaky, so I'd expect the Majik to be a reasonable step up. Would this be on the Linn forums? It would help you you could reference the source. -- browellm Transporter Kondo M7 Art Audio Quintet, Border Patrol PS Living Voice IBX/R2 browellm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
I own both a Transporter and a Majik DS. They sound very different with the DS being clearly the better music plyer. The GUI on the Linn do suck. You have to buy a Iphone/Ipodtouch use a twonky control point software (plugplayer) to make it as usable (almost) as the Transporters Squeezecenter. And twonky on NAS is troublesome and very unsupported. But, my Buffalo Linkstation (openlink) runs twonky 4.4.6 ipkged Slimserver 7.3.1 in parallell. But the transporter is only used as a clock since buying the Linn. Sound differences? Clearly more bass, more PRAT and so on on the Linn. Call me biased (since I own other Linn equipments) but the DS owns the Transporter soundwise but the server solution usability is much better on the Transporter. If just PlugPlayer on the IpodTouch would support cover flow /Sebbe -- sebbe_sabb sebbe_sabb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18020 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
I think it's great that you are putting your own system, and your own choices, to the test. Keep going!. -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
JezA;397533 Wrote: I think it's great that you are putting your own system, and your own choices, to the test. Keep going!. Cheers Jez! So far I've got rid of 2 expensive spdif cables, a linear PSU and two quite expensive bits of digital processing gear... won't be much left at this rate... now for those analogue interconnects :) Soon have enough for a Transporter at this rate - oooh something else to test! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter pops when switching to24/96?
That sounds like a problem with the DAC, not the transporter. Please try using the analog output of the transporter, if the pop happens there you might have a bad unit. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60240 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter pops when switching to24/96?
do you get the same pop if you turn off the dac and turn it on again or pull the coax out of the DAC? - has it had its muting transistors removed... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60240 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] My experience implementing John Swenson's Synchronous Reclocking Circuit
cheers RT, I am very happy with the way this mod sounds. I will have a look at the AA thread you mention - it sounds GREAT! I do have a problem with the sync reclocker - I am only able to get about 5-10 minutes playback before I get distortion which sounds like an FM radio being tunes which quickly changes to either a static his, or a mid freq hum. I have to remove the pwr from the SB2 to get everything to work again. I am using very short wires for to and from the reclocker, however they are not shielded in any way - could this be the problem? Brad -- Builder Brad System Linkwitz Orions++ 4 x Linkwitz Thors++ 1 x AKSA 25w Nivarna+ 1 x AKSA 55w 2 x AKSA100 AKSA GK 1R tube pre 4 x Felicia balanced PS filters 4 x BK OMP300w rms amp modules MDHT labs Paradisea DAC Pioneer DV-79AVi DVD Player Builder Brad's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3867 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
browellm;397527 Wrote: Would this be on the Linn forums? It would help you you could reference the source. There are comments on both HifiWigwam and Pinkfish comparing the two. I don't consider either forum to be particularly pro either product. -- Mr_Sukebe SB+, Bel Canto Evo2i, Impulse Ta'us, Coherent system cables, Stillpoints Mr_Sukebe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Beresford DAC ... Who uses one and how good is it really ?
I am thinking of getting the Beresford DAC to use between my squeezebox duet and Onkyo 805. I currently connect the Duet to the Onkyo 805 using optical using the 805 Burr-brown DACs. I really do like the sound a lot but I want to take it to next level. Would I get a better sound quality be adding the Beresford or any DAC up to $400.00 for that matter? Or would the Onkyo 805 itself be a limiting factor? Where would be a good source to get the Zero without any reliability failure issue? This is for use with my home audio gear which consists of Revel Performa tower speakers and and JL Audio Fathom subwoofer. Thanks. -- dvdit dvdit's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18317 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57619 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;397540 Wrote: So far I've got rid of 2 expensive spdif cables, a linear PSU and two quite expensive bits of digital processing gear... Less is more :) -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Monarchy Audio DIP
I have also a DIP classic (last iteration) and I'm experiencing the same behaviour: digital noise in certain conditons, specifically when the source is off. That was cumbersome with my SB3 and now with my airport express... -- sbb sbb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14322 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60183 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Monarchy Audio DIP
Ok, thanks. I will leave the DIP at his current owner... Regards, Marcel. -- MarcelO FLAC Squeezebox 3 Coaxial Belden 1694A Sigtone Shek d2 Blue Jeans LC-1 Mission Cyrus One Bi-wired Canare 4S11 Linn Tukan + REL Q200E MarcelO's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60183 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifi Wigwam show in the UK
Gazjam;397355 Wrote: Theres a few of the guys going to the show taking their hi-end CD players and doing a direct comparison with the Transporter and SB3/Dac. I think a lot of assumptions are going to be broke after this show. Predjuduces even Over on the 'Wam I had to jump to the defence of a guy who was taking a hammering for suggesting a Squeezebox and Dac could compete withe some of the more hallowed CD players. The Thread turned into a bit of a bunfight to be honest - usual forum behaviour I suppose. Anyway, I await the results! A lot of what people hear is down to their beliefs. In this sense my guess is your demo will achieve little. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. http://www.last.fm/listen/user/darrenyeats SB3 + Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop / Rio Karma - JVC UX-C30 mini system / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Am I imagining this? Squeezecentre 7.3 sounds worse than 7.2.1?
If it where down to non linked clocks then the control test would have shown an error? -- NealG NealG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=259 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=56591 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Beresford DAC ... Who uses one and how good is it really ?
I bought a Rega CD, Rega DAC, Rega Pre and Rega power amp with Ruark speakers 8 years ago. In it's day was a great combination. As CDs got scratched, children etc.general enjoyment diminished. I then ripped them all to flac using EAC and a Netgear ready nas. I bought a Linn Majik DS to replace the Rega CD and DAC. Wow, wonderful etc. It was similar to moving from stretched cassette tapes to CD. The real revelation however was buying a few albums as studio master Flacs from the Linn website. Takes your breath away. The Linn software is just rubbish ! I then bought a Duet as an alternative. The controller, software etc are superb! The sound quality sucks and as for the low volume listening. I bought a Beresford TC-7510 to improve the quality. To start with it sounded a vast improvement but still a little tinny. I had read in a forum somewhere that they need to burn in or be run in. (How can a silicon chip change it's data handling with use I do not understand) but I found a marked improvement after a couple of days of use. My conclusions are the Duet and Beresford TC-7510 versus Linn Majik DS Rock on MP3very little difference. Rock on good Flac very good but Linn is definitely the better perhaps not £500 better. Clasical on good Flac Miles better and worth every penny more for the Linn Classical with Studio master FlacsI can't get my Duet to play them yet and I understand that the downsizing method has something to be desired when I do get it working. On the Linn they astounding. I understand that a several committed people are working to get the Squeezebox Controller to drive almost anything and particularly Linn systems. When I can drive my Linn with the Squeezebox Controller and software I will be in heaven. So I'm happy to wait for a bit and live with my Duet and Berisford DAC. A few very personal thoughts and therefore should be treated accordingly. -- simongurney simongurney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=24318 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=57619 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Am I imagining this? Squeezecentre 7.3 sounds worse than 7.2.1?
Phil Leigh;397309 Wrote: Chris - I downloaded your files and am analysing them now. What DAC did you use?. The difference track is -70/-80db down. The noise floor contains a lot of quantization noise (not the white noise I'd expect to hear) - sounds like a computer program loading from a cassette tape in the 80's :) What file format was your original JM file and what format were you streaming? What hardware did you use to record your test files? After pretty extensive listening to your files and a large amount of testing of Audio Diff Maker I think I have to conclude that what you can hear is the intrinsic error in the program/process when using non-linked clocks for the recording device (soundcard) and playback device (the SB or DAC). You can hear the clocks drifting in/out of sync over the length of the track - when they are in sync briefly you get a nice fat null! All of this is 70-80db down anyway which basically renders it inaudible in any case. This compares with my MP3 vs FLAC tests where the differences are audible in some cases with NO boost at all. If you want to test this, play your reconstructed compared track and see or rather hear - what happens as you boost the difference signal... all your hear is noise being added to the mix - and not a nice hiss either - rather nasty digital noise, like a modem... I'm going to say that the firmware change has made no difference whatsoever - Ymmv :) regards Phil Regards Phil Hi Phil Thanks for taking up the dirty stick on this one. The files concerned were all wav. files. I took the fixed level analogue outputs of my DAC (Bereford 7510 6/4)into an EMU 0202 USB external ADC/DAC (quieter than the standard in/out of the laptop). The signal chain was SB3 to DAc via SPDIF to EMU0202. The source of digital grunge you mention is probably the SMPS PSU off the laptop used to record the files, although this is, as you have said, very low down in the noise floor. The clock drift is doubtless due to the fact that all files were recorded in real time - I have since ripped, cut and copied the same track from CD for comparison purposes (ie direct manipulation of the waveform), and there are no clock errors in the results of the comparison between A + B (it is indeed the same file with a slightly different name). On playback whether via the EMU or via the standard analogue outputs there is a level of grunge low down in the noise floor (SMPS grunge ?). So we're dealing with very imperfect devices in an imperfect world. The reason for going through all of this malarky is an attempt to obtain totally objective evidence as to whether there are audible sonic differences between Squeezecenter levels and their associated firmware. Subjectively I did not get on with the SQ of 7.3 , but have got on ok with subsequent 7.3.1 and 7.3.2 . And I do not get on with 7.4 beta. I ran 7.4 beta for a good few hours, and over a period you adjust to what you are listening to. Then I just got the urge to play the AC/DC song Highway To Hell. The harmonic structure of the opening guitar riff was not right ! And trust my ears on this one - my username of Stratmangler is due to the fact that I've played guitar for years. I know the sound of a Marshall amp instantly. The mangler part is self depracating in that I do not put in anything like the amount of effort to keep my playing skils up to scratch, let alone improve. I haven't really had the time or inclination for a good few years. Anyway, I have digressed Dig out the CD and play the same track - things back how I remember them. Stick on the vinyl - harmonically fine, how I remember them. Play the track from HD via SB3 - things not so good. Uninstalled 7.4 , cleaned up, rebooted and clean instal of 7.3.2 and things fall back into place and sound good. The problem with all of the subjective stuff is that it is my system, my place, and my ears. And until either I, or someone else can come up some way of extracting imperical evidence then this kind of discussion will continue and doubtless resurface from time to time. Many regards Chris :) -- Stratmangler Stratmangler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20387 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=56591 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;397359 Wrote: Just compared Mozart Requiem in D - Sanctus (Linn CD) as FLAC vs 135 mp3 vs 225 MP3 (VBR). This is the first test I've done where the difference track is audible without boosting the difference track - really very interesting... I'd like someone else to corroborate my findings. I'd say this track is a good killer Mp3 test track. The compression algorithm clearly decides to throw out some of the massed vocals...and hall ambience. Hi Phil, thanks for posting these very interesting results! I await the results of the TacT test eagerly. About MP3 and the Requiem - that's actually not surprising. I'll bet if you compare the size of a FLAC version of the Requiem to WAV, you'll find it's not as much smaller as the FLAC version of some of the other tracks you've been listening to are (compared to WAV). Point being, complex music is much harder to compress than simpler music. Pure solo instruments, contrary to audiophile belief, are very easy to compress. Complex orchestral and choral works are not. So it's not surprising the MP3 algorithm is having difficulty compressing the Requiem without losing important information, because it basically has to be much more lossy (compared to FLAC) to achieve the same file size than it would for simpler music. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifi Wigwam show in the UK
Not my Demo Darren, I'm not going. Its my belief that a few folk will be surprised. Thats all. :) -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
I use laptops exclusively and none of them have line in. Would the mic input on my Thinkpads work? -- agentsmith System 1: Transporter, Naim 202/200/Hicap/NAPSC, Harbeth Monitor 30 System 2: SB2 connected via TOSLINK to a Meridian F80 agentsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1838 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Am I imagining this? Squeezecentre 7.3 sounds worse than 7.2.1?
Stratmangler;397684 Wrote: Hi Phil Thanks for taking up the dirty stick on this one. The files concerned were all wav. files. I took the fixed level analogue outputs of my DAC (Bereford 7510 6/4)into an EMU 0202 USB external ADC/DAC (quieter than the standard in/out of the laptop). The signal chain was SB3 to DAc via SPDIF to EMU0202. The source of digital grunge you mention is probably the SMPS PSU off the laptop used to record the files, although this is, as you have said, very low down in the noise floor. The clock drift is doubtless due to the fact that all files were recorded in real time - I have since ripped, cut and copied the same track from CD for comparison purposes (ie direct manipulation of the waveform), and there are no clock errors in the results of the comparison between A + B (it is indeed the same file with a slightly different name). On playback whether via the EMU or via the standard analogue outputs there is a level of grunge low down in the noise floor (SMPS grunge ?). So we're dealing with very imperfect devices in an imperfect world. The reason for going through all of this malarky is an attempt to obtain totally objective evidence as to whether there are audible sonic differences between Squeezecenter levels and their associated firmware. Subjectively I did not get on with the SQ of 7.3 , but have got on ok with subsequent 7.3.1 and 7.3.2 . And I do not get on with 7.4 beta. I ran 7.4 beta for a good few hours, and over a period you adjust to what you are listening to. Then I just got the urge to play the AC/DC song Highway To Hell. The harmonic structure of the opening guitar riff was not right ! And trust my ears on this one - my username of Stratmangler is due to the fact that I've played guitar for years. I know the sound of a Marshall amp instantly. The mangler part is self depracating in that I do not put in anything like the amount of effort to keep my playing skils up to scratch, let alone improve. I haven't really had the time or inclination for a good few years. Anyway, I have digressed Dig out the CD and play the same track - things back how I remember them. Stick on the vinyl - harmonically fine, how I remember them. Play the track from HD via SB3 - things not so good. Uninstalled 7.4 , cleaned up, rebooted and clean instal of 7.3.2 and things fall back into place and sound good. The problem with all of the subjective stuff is that it is my system, my place, and my ears. And until either I, or someone else can come up some way of extracting imperical evidence then this kind of discussion will continue and doubtless resurface from time to time. Many regards Chris :) Chris - I saw AC/DC on the HTH tour! - I'll have a LISTEN to that track - like you it is one I know well. Likewise Marshall amps...(although I'm a Tele/LP man myself) Cheers Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=56591 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
agentsmith;397696 Wrote: I use laptops exclusively and none of them have line in. Would the mic input on my Thinkpads work? It's worth a try but the mic input may overload. Some Thinkpads have a dual purpose line/mic input - I think turning OFF or muting the mic input turns it into a Line in... worth a try! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
opaqueice;397689 Wrote: Hi Phil, thanks for posting these very interesting results! I await the results of the TacT test eagerly. About MP3 and the Requiem - that's actually not surprising. I'll bet if you compare the size of a FLAC version of the Requiem to WAV, you'll find it's not as much smaller as the FLAC version of some of the other tracks you've been listening to are (compared to WAV). Point being, complex music is much harder to compress than simpler music. Pure solo instruments, contrary to audiophile belief, are very easy to compress. Complex orchestral and choral works are not. So it's not surprising the MP3 algorithm is having difficulty compressing the Requiem without losing important information, because it basically has to be much more lossy (compared to FLAC) to achieve the same file size than it would for simpler music. hmmm Sanctus WAV=30MB, FLAC=11MB, 245VBR MP3= 3 MB ... (TACT test coming soon) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
