Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why cannot you make Transporter support 176.4 and 192Khz/24?
Curt962;529502 Wrote: > I for one am all for the best possible technologies to present our > favorite music, but until the record companies are?? It seems to > remain just a dream. > > As long as "focus groups" of college students find 128Kbps MP3s to > sound so good, I don't expect the labels to make the investment. If > the kids won't buy it...we don't get it. Period. Folks would rather > have it "now" via download than they would have it "good". When > your entire system costs $169...a few thousand Kbps doesn't make a lot > of difference to the masses. > > The same people who wouldn't dream of watching American Idol on > anything less than a lifesize Plasma screen, will happily listen to > their music through a 2" paper cone. > > And we want 176 what?? > > I'm done buying "audiophile" music that bores me in one or two plays. > I've found that in the meantime, there are far more meaningful aspects > of one's playback system that can be improved upon. > > I feel that my Transporter at 24/96 is the least of my challenges. Jazz/blues was indeed boring me 15 years ago, but today I find it quite interesting. Also, since I heavily upgraded my stereo system, I can now enjoy classical recordings... Which are plenty on high-rez For some reason, maybe marketing as Pat noted, recording industry goes to 192/24. Hence, I prefer the player to handle it natively, rather than buying strong CPU for SqueezeCenter to downsample it, and create artifacts.. Transporter is a killer product, i think it deserves more attention. -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76496 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why cannot you make Transporter support 176.4 and 192Khz/24?
I for one am all for the best possible technologies to present our favorite music, but until the record companies are?? It seems to remain just a dream. As long as "focus groups" of college students find 128Kbps MP3s to sound so good, I don't expect the labels to make the investment. If the kids won't buy it...we don't get it. Period. I'm done buying "audiophile" music that bores me in one or two plays. I've found that in the meantime, there are far more meaningful aspects of one's playback system that can be improved upon. I feel that my Transporter at 24/96 is the least of my challenges. -- Curt962 Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76496 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] ADAM Speakers...Who's using them?
Almost two weeks into the ADAM thing, and I am quite pleased.Ongoing piddling with "fine" positioning, tilt and toe to see how some different ideas work out. There is something quite special about the mids/highs on the ADAMS that seems to open a window on reality now and then. A wonderful open, and effortless sound that still manages to precisely locate instruments/vocals in space with ease. Heck...even on some old, non-audiophile pop recordings from the '60s (Spanky and Our Gang) there is a remarkable WOW factor that makes you feel as though you were actually in the control room while this stuff was being recorded. If there's something wrong...you'll hear it.But it is so easy to find the good these old recordings where it exists. Spanky has a LOT of enjoyable sounding tracks in their catalog...as do countless others that I am not aware of. If it's about hearing what's on your records...for better or worse...these speakers seem to be totally capable of bringing it to light. A very revealing and enjoyable listening experience thus far. -- Curt962 Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
Good Post! I've found a number of Hi-Res downloads (24-88, 24-96) that are at ridiculously low levels.The VU meters barely move, and the music actually sounds a bit "lost". I've used dbPoweramp more than once to cautiously apply a bit of fixed gaim, and the whole thing sounds better. I also retain a copy of the original file in case I mess up.I'm not changing things, so much as "re-scaling" them a bit to get them out of the dirt and up where they can be heard without running the gain on everything here at "11". This seems to work quite well, and I've yet to hear some objectionable sonic artifact as a result. Works for me! -- Curt962 Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
Phil Leigh;529419 Wrote: > On Windows I've found the best method for me is to use Foobar2000 to > calculate and apply the RG tags after ripping. This is what I use as well. It just adds tags to your files which you can still ignore if you want when playing back. It doesn't modify audio content. -- lrossouw Louis 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/lrossouw) lrossouw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3416 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
DaveWr;529349 Wrote: > The key issue, is that the coefficients for volume reduction have been > chosen (well for SB3, Duet and Transporter, no idea on Squeezeplay > stuff) to allow reduction of volume by up to 30 dB, using coefficients > that are multiples of 1/256. This means all the top 16 bit values > (original sound values) are mapped to new 24 bit values with all values > exactly fitting in the 24 bits available. No loss in resolution of 16 > bit data just loss in signal to noise ratio. > > Obviously this only works for original 16 bit data sources. Minor nit: this only works for original 16 bit data sources ->played by 24 bit DAC's<- -- DCtoDaylight Audiophile wish list: Zero Distortion, Infinite Signal to Noise Ratio, and a Bandwidth from DC to Daylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
On 01/04/10 00:14, JohnSwenson wrote: > > Wow, this is the third time today I've responded to this question, there > must be a run on AES/EBU! :) > I don't have time to type it all in again, but in a nutshell the XLR > jacks used in AES/EBU are terrible RF connectors. A true 75 ohm BNC is > much better. RCAs are terrible at RF as well. > > AES/EBU uses high voltages (3-5V) which means the driver needs to > supply 30-45mA while S/PDIF uses 0.5 which only needs 6mA. The much > higher current will cause significantly larger power and ground bounce > issues on the board and inside the driver chips. This is almost > guaranteed to increase jitter. > > The balanced topology of AES/EBU is a good thing (the only good thing > going for it) but the other problems can far outweigh that. > > So IF the alternatives are RCA S/PDIF or AES/EBU, the AES/EBU could > very well sound better. BUT a proper implementation of S/PDIF with real > 75ohm BNCs on all jacks and cables will have a high probability of out > performing AES/EBU. > > So if your DAC has a 75ohm BNC jack, AND you get a cable with 75ohm > plugs on it (not so easy, for some reason most 75ohm cables with BNC > plugs use 50 ohm connectors) it will probably outperform an AES/EBU > connection. I am familiar with the reasons for "proper" 75 ohm S/PDIF being better than AES/EBU - I wasn't suggesting it isn't. I was rather suggesting that surely it is only better in certain adverse conditions. Goretex makes a better waterproof coat than paper, but both will keep you dry if it's not raining :) In my case, I am using a DEQ2496 in the effects loop of the Transporter; the DEQ2496 has AES/EBU on XLR connectors, and S/PDIF on toslink. I didn't have two toslink connectors, so I used a couple of balanced mic leads. Seems to work OK. :) R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
Wow, this is the third time today I've responded to this question, there must be a run on AES/EBU! I don't have time to type it all in again, but in a nutshell the XLR jacks used in AES/EBU are terrible RF connectors. A true 75 ohm BNC is much better. RCAs are terrible at RF as well. AES/EBU uses high voltages (3-5V) which means the driver needs to supply 30-45mA while S/PDIF uses 0.5 which only needs 6mA. The much higher current will cause significantly larger power and ground bounce issues on the board and inside the driver chips. This is almost guaranteed to increase jitter. The balanced topology of AES/EBU is a good thing (the only good thing going for it) but the other problems can far outweigh that. So IF the alternatives are RCA S/PDIF or AES/EBU, the AES/EBU could very well sound better. BUT a proper implementation of S/PDIF with real 75ohm BNCs on all jacks and cables will have a high probability of out performing AES/EBU. So if your DAC has a 75ohm BNC jack, AND you get a cable with 75ohm plugs on it (not so easy, for some reason most 75ohm cables with BNC plugs use 50 ohm connectors) it will probably outperform an AES/EBU connection. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why cannot you make Transporter support 176.4 and 192Khz/24?
tcutting;529198 Wrote: > So, do you know the difference between "Hardware" and "Software"? Sorry - didn't mean this to be too deep a question... more of a "geeky riddle". Answer: You can change the hardware! -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76496 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
On 31/03/10 22:14, Phil Leigh wrote: > > Fxdwg123;529436 Wrote: >> Ok Dave, clear. So when I understand well this issue will be solved when >> taken the advice of Clive and buy a proper passive stepper? >> >> "you need to make sure you get the gain staging right (with appropriate >> passive attenuation)" > > Yes. Also, don't use AES/EBU, use spdif coax instead. It works better. Are you sure about that, Phil? I know Sena has said that AES/EBU is an inferior interface, but surely that only applies in certain cases and, most of the time, both AES/EBU & SPDIF coax will perform equivalently? R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
Fxdwg123;529436 Wrote: > Ok Dave, clear. So when I understand well this issue will be solved when > taken the advice of Clive and buy a proper passive stepper? > > "you need to make sure you get the gain staging right (with appropriate > passive attenuation)" Yes. Also, don't use AES/EBU, use spdif coax instead. It works better. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
DaveWr;529427 Wrote: > You will not have bit transparency at that level of attenuation. The 16 > bit original will not be mapped fully to the 24 bit output. This means > with no dither etc, there will be signal distortion as well as signal > to noise issues. > > Dave Ok Dave, clear. So when I understand well this issue will be solved when taken the advice of Clive and buy a proper passive stepper? "you need to make sure you get the gain staging right (with appropriate passive attenuation)" -- Fxdwg123 Synology 209+II --> Transporter --> Audio-GD Ref7 DAC --> Meridian G57 --> Wilson Audio WP7 Fxdwg123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
DaveWr;529427 Wrote: > You will not have bit transparency at that level of attenuation. The 16 > bit original will not be mapped fully to the 24 bit output. This means > with no dither etc, there will be signal distortion as well as signal > to noise issues. > > Dave Ok Dave, clear. So when I understand well this issue will be solved when taken the advice of Clive and buy a proper passive stepper? "you need to make sure you get the gain staging right (with appropriate passive attenuation)" -- Fxdwg123 Synology 209+II --> Transporter --> Audio-GD Ref7 DAC --> Meridian G57 --> Wilson Audio WP7 Fxdwg123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
Fxdwg123;529421 Wrote: > I had a SB3 and bought an external DAC to improve SQ. That was an > Audio-GD DAC-200, without any doubt a major improvement compared to the > SB3 dac. In February I upgraded the DAC to the Audio_GD Reference 7, > which is their top of line DAC (8 PCM1704UK DAC chips and a > sophisticated powersupply). Again a substantial improvement. After 2 > weeks I was able to have a great deal on a Transporter. I have listened > to the Transporter's DAC but to be honest, I haven't done a thorough A?B > comparison as I automaticly assumed the Ref 7 DAC should be the best and > I installed the Transporter to this DAC (with AES/EBU). Perhaps the Ref > 7 is a better dac than the Transporter (specs and the build say it > should), but perhaps the Transporter would surprise me when I would do > a proper test. > > Responding on the volume degradation issue: I currently listen to a > -48dB volume level (Transporter) and I have read somewehere that at > this level there are still 16bits left so degradation not noticable. > And to be honest, at this level the music sounds great, better then > with 100% Transporter volume via my Meridian G02 preamp. You will not have bit transparency at that level of attenuation. The 16 bit original will not be mapped fully to the 24 bit output. This means with no dither etc, there will be signal distortion as well as signal to noise issues. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
cliveb;529290 Wrote: > I take it that you have compared your external DAC with the > Transporter's analogue output and prefer the DAC? You mention that you > connect the DAC to the power amp via XLR, so of course to do a fair > comparison you need to use the TP's balanced outputs. And make sure > that the comparison is level-matched. > > The reason I ask this is that the TP's own DAC is extremely good, and > I'm surprised you find any need to use an external DAC. Out of > curiosity, what is the external DAC? > > There's an implication in one of your other posts that you're using the > TP's volume control at a fairly low setting. If this is the case, then > the SNR degradation that will result could overwhelm any minor > differences between the TP's DAC and the external one. I think you need > to make sure you get the gain staging right (with appropriate passive > attenuation) and operate with the TP's volume control at a reasonably > high setting before you can come to any sensible conclusions regarding > the relative merits of the DACs. I had a SB3 and bought an external DAC to improve SQ. That was an Audio-GD DAC-200, without any doubt a major improvement compared to the SB3 dac. In February I upgraded the DAC to the Audio_GD Reference 7, which is their top of line DAC (8 PCM1704UK DAC chips and a sophisticated powersupply). Again a substantial improvement. After 2 weeks I was able to have a great deal on a Transporter. I have listened to the Transporter's DAC but to be honest, I haven't done a thorough A?B comparison as I automaticly assumed the Ref 7 DAC should be the best and I installed the Transporter to this DSAC (with AES/EBU). Perhaps The Ref 7 is a better dac than the Transporter (specs and the build say it should), but perhaps the Transporter would surprise me when I would do a proper test. Responding on the volume degradation issue: I currently listen to a -48dB volume level (Transporter) and I have read somewehere that at this level there are still 16bits left so degradation not noticable. And to be honest, at this level the music sounds great, better then with 100% Transporter volume via my Meridian G02 preamp. -- Fxdwg123 Synology 209+II --> Transporter --> Audio-GD Ref7 DAC --> Meridian G57 --> Wilson Audio WP7 Fxdwg123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
On Windows I've found the best method for me is to use Foobar2000 to calculate and apply the RG tags after ripping. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
You can calculate Replay Gain in dbPoweramp but you should *not* use the addon which applies it (APPLY): it will definately modify your files. -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Croft 25Pre and Series 7 power - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
SuperQ;529393 Wrote: > Yes, use replay gain. It works really well and won't make your music > sound worse. Mostly it will mute down the loud stuff to match the > levels of quieter tracks. Thanks, I avoided any "gain" settings in the Squeeze products (perhaps a mistake). Do you mean use replay gain as a setting in dBpoweramp? -- Squeezed_Rotel John M SqueezeCenter 7.3.4 running on a DIY PC, Windows 7 64 bit o.s., with Inguz Audio EQ/DRC. (1) Transporter, & (2) Booms connected through a Linksys WRT54gs router and Linksys WAP54g access point. Using an iPod Touch with iPeng for a controller. For Critical Listening =>Transporter => Rotel RC1070 preamp => Rotel RB1080 2 channel amp => Bowers & Wilkins 805 Speakers. Squeezed_Rotel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
Squeezed_Rotel;529363 Wrote: > Is this normal? Is there a way to increase the "volume" at the rip > stage? Yes, use replay gain. It works really well and won't make your music sound worse. Mostly it will mute down the loud stuff to match the levels of quieter tracks. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
Phil Leigh;529376 Wrote: > ...It still won't make Ravel as loud as Nirvana... That's funny Phil. I had feared that something would be lost in this case or worse yet that distortion would occur if I drive the preamp high enough to get acceptable playback volume. -- Squeezed_Rotel John M SqueezeCenter 7.3.4 running on a DIY PC, Windows 7 64 bit o.s., with Inguz Audio EQ/DRC. (1) Transporter, & (2) Booms connected through a Linksys WRT54gs router and Linksys WAP54g access point. Using an iPod Touch with iPeng for a controller. For Critical Listening =>Transporter => Rotel RC1070 preamp => Rotel RB1080 2 channel amp => Bowers & Wilkins 805 Speakers. Squeezed_Rotel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
This is all normal. You could use Replaygain which in my collection gives no more than +3-4dB on very quiet classical stuff. There's absolutely no harm in this. It still won't make Ravel as loud as Nirvana... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
All *good* recordings sound quiet, because the (equally good) mastering engineers have left the necessary 14dB headroom before clipping. So that you can have some dynamics headroom. Unfortunately, most modern recordings (since about 1995) have squeezed this, and limited the dynamics. It is called the "Loudness War" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war). SO, actually, the recordings which are "loud" are the worse ones. You better worry about them, rather than the quiet ones. ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Croft 25Pre and Series 7 power - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Why do some sources sound quiet on Transporter
Please forgive the poor choice of words for the title of the thread. I have CDs that were ripped with dBpoweramp. I have 16/44.1 flac files that came from Deutche Grammaphone. I have 24/96 flac files from Linn Records. I don't use any gain Smart, Replay or anything else. The Transporter volume is set @ 100% out. When I select and play a file, I watch the Transporter VU meters. I have noticed that almost all of my classical music CDs that were ripped, require a fair amount of preamp volume (and are noticeably lower on the VU meter) compared to downloaded flac files as well as 320, 256 Internet radio. Is this normal? Is there a way to increase the "volume" at the rip stage? Should I care about this? TIA John -- Squeezed_Rotel John M SqueezeCenter 7.3.4 running on a DIY PC, Windows 7 64 bit o.s., with Inguz Audio EQ/DRC. (1) Transporter, & (2) Booms connected through a Linksys WRT54gs router and Linksys WAP54g access point. Using an iPod Touch with iPeng for a controller. For Critical Listening =>Transporter => Rotel RC1070 preamp => Rotel RB1080 2 channel amp => Bowers & Wilkins 805 Speakers. Squeezed_Rotel's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76680 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
DaveWr;529349 Wrote: > Major apologies brain strain, time of year, age etc. > > The key issue, is that the coefficients for volume reduction have been > chosen (well for SB3, Duet and Transporter, no idea on Squeezeplay > stuff) to allow reduction of volume by up to 30 dB, using coefficients > that are multiples of 1/256. This means all the top 16 bit values > (original sound values) are mapped to new 24 bit values with all values > exactly fitting in the 24 bits available. No loss in resolution of 16 > bit data just loss in signal to noise ratio. > > Obviously this only works for original 16 bit data sources. > > Dave Dave - no problem - all agreed. Thanks for the extra info. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
Phil Leigh;529339 Wrote: > Dave - it is neither "specious" nor indeed an "argument"... merely an > illustrative example. > > I could have used: > 1110 becomes > 1101 (15th bit flipping in this example) > > I should have said "at least one of the first 16-bits is modified when > the level is reduced below 100" Major apologies brain strain, time of year, age etc. The key issue, is that the coefficients for volume reduction have been chosen (well for SB3, Duet and Transporter, no idea on Squeezeplay stuff) to allow reduction of volume by up to 30 dB, using coefficients that are multiples of 1/256. This means all the top 16 bit values (original sound values) are mapped to new 24 bit values with all values exactly fitting in the 24 bits available. No loss in resolution of 16 bit data just loss in signal to noise ratio. Obviously this only works for original 16 bit data sources. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
DaveWr;529332 Wrote: > Well a full scale 16 bit probably indicates clipping anyway, so specious > argument. There are several postings on the volume curve for SB3, > including convincing Dean to get it right by using 1/256 steps for the > first thirty, to ensure exact bit alignment. > > Dave Dave - it is neither "specious" nor indeed an "argument"... merely an illustrative example. I could have used: 1110 becomes 1101 (15th bit flipping in this example) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
Well a full scale 16 bit probably indicates clipping anyway, so specious argument. There are several postings on the volume curve for SB3, including convincing Dean to get it right by using 1/256 steps for the first thirty, to ensure exact bit alignment. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] transporter balanced output?
Yes, balanced sounds better, even when using one leg to an unbalanced input of an amplifier. This is explainable because one opamp/filtering stage is omitted this way compared to the unbalanced output of the transporter. -- tingtong5 tingtong5's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9671 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76644 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
DaveWr;529310 Wrote: > If you use it below 70, it will distort 16 bit music files. > > Dave Some recent testing has shown that humans are pretty impervious to bit-loss down to about 10 bits... :-) Strictly speaking the 16th bit is altered the moment the level goes below 100. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
Phil Leigh;529295 Wrote: > This is excellent advice from CliveB - if you are using the TP level > control much below 80 then you are losing signal/noise ratio in a way > that can be noticeable. If you use it below 70, it will distort 16 bit music files. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
cliveb;529290 Wrote: > I take it that you have compared your external DAC with the > Transporter's analogue output and prefer the DAC? You mention that you > connect the DAC to the power amp via XLR, so of course to do a fair > comparison you need to use the TP's balanced outputs. And make sure > that the comparison is level-matched. > > The reason I ask this is that the TP's own DAC is extremely good, and > I'm surprised you find any need to use an external DAC. Out of > curiosity, what is the external DAC? > > There's an implication in one of your other posts that you're using the > TP's volume control at a fairly low setting. If this is the case, then > the SNR degradation that will result could overwhelm any minor > differences between the TP's DAC and the external one. I think you need > to make sure you get the gain staging right (with appropriate passive > attenuation) and operate with the TP's volume control at a reasonably > high setting before you can come to any sensible conclusions regarding > the relative merits of the DACs. This is excellent advice from CliveB - if you are using the TP level control much below 80 then you are losing signal/noise ratio in a way that can be noticeable. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter volume-control digital input
Fxdwg123;529188 Wrote: > In this case perhaps the solution could be not to use my external dac > for the cd-transport but to use the Transporter DAC. So I connect my > cd-transport via coax to the Transporter digital input and connect the > Transporter not only to my external dac but also via RCA analogue to my > poweramp. I still can use my external dac for streaming as that dac is > connected to my power-amp with XLR. In that way I can use the > Transporter volumecontrol for all sources and only need to switch the > power-amp (there are switches on the back) from XLR to RCA when I want > to listen to a cd (what does not happen often). I'll give this a try. > Thanks! I take it that you have compared your external DAC with the Transporter's analogue output and prefer the DAC? You mention that you connect the DAC to the power amp via XLR, so of course to do a fair comparison you need to use the TP's balanced outputs. And make sure that the comparison is level-matched. The reason I ask this is that the TP's own DAC is extremely good, and I'm surprised you find any need to use an external DAC. Out of curiosity, what is the external DAC? There's an implication in one of your other posts that you're using the TP's volume control at a fairly low setting. If this is the case, then the SNR degradation that will result could overwhelm any minor differences between the TP's DAC and the external one. I think you need to make sure you get the gain staging right (with appropriate passive attenuation) and operate with the TP's volume control at a reasonably high setting before you can come to any sensible conclusions regarding the relative merits of the DACs. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=76659 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
