Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
Mnyb;549683 Wrote: That distorsion is measured in the hifi rags as some kind of side bands to a test signal ... You are probably referring to Stereophile's jitter test methodology. They input a fixed amplitude and fixed frequency signal to the DAC and expect only that at the output . Any other frequency components (side bands) are considered distortions and/or artefacts of jitter. In essence, this is the same technique (in reverse) used in FM modulation. The audio frequency modulates a carrier frequency. BTW, everybody here seems to be erudite enough on this subject (and more). I am not sure the mission of the OP to pin a signature to the sound of jitter is feasible or even worth it. It is probably an academic exercise. As a hobbyist (i am too overworked to get more technical in my hobby as well :-( ), I feel jitter does impact sound negatively. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Musical Fidelity X-DACv3 and X-PSU v3
It is being done at the moment- in the meantime i have to say I am finding it a bittersweet surprise how good the touch is with anolgue out (albeit through the X10D) -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36396 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
I would also like to have some feel for what jitter sounds like. I am not being sarcastic here, honest! Can anyone suggest types of music or other recordings that are particularly susceptible to the effects of (bad) jitter ? When it comes to poor lossy compression - e.g. 128k MP3s - I can hear ringing in the high end on electronic music especially processed female vocals and for photographs and video it is easy to see the effects of low bitrate artifacts. I am not getting the same vibe for hearing the effects of jittery clocks. Where do you here it ? Is it purely psychoacoustic and plays with the imaging and soundstage or is it more directly audiable for someone who has perfect pitch (not me!) ? -- Peter Galbavy Peter Galbavy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32718 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
'As Darren mentioned earlier' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=549234#post549234), it seems some modern DACs (e.g. Benchmark DAC1) have for practical purposes solved these problems... I don't think this is restricted to some modern dac's but rather almost all modern dac's , in varying degrees .. Practical purpose meaning that any good spdif source will be ok on them .. The best ones may have an edge on extremely unstable and jittery sources. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe'Primare and Dynadio speakers (including a pair of Contour 4 ) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
Unusual advice, a guy from antelope is talking about the benefit of jitter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-65gN44G9hU -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
nicolas75;550220 Wrote: Unusual advice, Igor Levin from Antelope is talking about the benefit of jitter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-65gN44G9hU Sounded pretty good until he mentioned a 64bit Processor. When ever I hear that I know it's a B.S. sales pitch rather than a technical pitch. The most significant attribute of a 64bit Processor is much memory it can address. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
mswlogo;550225 Wrote: Sounded pretty good until he mentioned a 64bit Processor. When ever I hear that I know it's a B.S. sales pitch rather than a technical pitch. The most significant attribute of a 64bit Processor is much memory it can address. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. I don't fully agree. I do prefer a Windows 7 x64 over a x86, even if I use few memory. Modern OS are more stable and efficient in 64bit than in 32bit. If someone want to build a PC with a processor which is not a 64bit one, I wonder which OS you will install on it ... No idea if there can be some analogy when you develop a Dac. But I guess that available material which are not 64bit may well be obsolete ones ... -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Monster cables.
snarlydwarf;548794 Wrote: I frequently confuse my car's transmission with my interconnects. How about Monster cables as spark plug wires? -- TiredLegs TiredLegs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Monster cables.
TiredLegs;550246 Wrote: How about Monster cables as spark plug wires? Do you think the quality of insulation is up to it ;) They are probably made in prc and the price is jacked some 1000's of % as the MO is in the audio cable business . Can these don't ever ever ever use monster cable's treads be kept alive all over internet, this is one company the world would just be fine without . What the monster cable people have done to others ! they don't deserve other peoples hard earned cash. And they have done so much so nothing can redeem them anymore they should just be driven to bankruptcy an then forgotten. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe'Primare and Dynadio speakers (including a pair of Contour 4 ) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
nicolas75;550229 Wrote: I don't fully agree. I do prefer a Windows 7 x64 over a x86, even if I use few memory. Modern OS are more stable and efficient in 64bit than in 32bit. If someone want to build a PC with a processor which is not a 64bit one, I wonder which OS you will install on it ... (nowadays all PC processors are 64bit, even if you stick with a 32bit OS, I doubt any 32bit processor is still supported). No idea if there can be some analogy when you develop a Dac. But I guess that available material which are not 64bit may well be obsolete ones ... How windows behaves in 64bit vs 32bit is totally irrelevant. All this means is you bought into the 64bit buzz word he used to impress you. Because people associate new and more stable with it. Which has nothing to do will a totally controlled embedded DSP environment. It could be a 8-bit processor and be just as effective and stable a solution. It would be like my saying my 3.0L engine rides smoother than your 2.0L engine. What does engine size have to do with how smooth the ride is. Now for a particular car line a certain model with 3.0L may be associated with a more luxury model (in your mind or the puclics mind) than the 2.0L. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Monster cables.
Mnyb;550249 Wrote: Do you think the quality of insulation is up to it ;) They are probably made in prc and the price is jacked some 1000's of % as the MO is in the audio cable business. Can these don't ever ever ever use monster cable's treads be kept alive all over internet, this is one company the world would just be fine without . What the monster cable people have done to others ! they don't deserve other peoples hard earned cash. And they have done so much so nothing can redeem them anymore they should just be driven to bankruptcy an then forgotten. Unfortunately it looks like they have built a brand that people know by name and more surprising want (they just don't know better). These unsuspecting customers see the brand in Best Buy, Guitar Center, and A/V shops and assume they are OK if not great. And its no wonder why big companies carry it because the markup is so high! MC actually has the balls to put a warning on their home page to Don't get ripped off! beware of unauthorized dealers and fakes. The fakes are the snake oil claims in their ads. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
mswlogo;550276 Wrote: How windows behaves in 64bit vs 32bit is totally irrelevant. All this means is you bought into the 64bit buzz word he used to impress you. Because people associate new and more stable with it. Which has nothing to do will a totally controlled embedded DSP environment. It could be a 8-bit processor and be just as effective and stable a solution. It would be like my saying my 3.0L engine rides smoother than your 2.0L engine. What does engine size have to do with how smooth the ride is. Now for a particular car line a certain model with 3.0L may be associated with a more luxury model (in your mind or the puclics mind) than the 2.0L. I don't think so. It is because I have to use and develop applications for x64 et x86, both Windows and Linux. So I am quite aware that the amount of work for maintaining both versions results in the fact that the main version is more carefully tested, reliable, and efficient, than the obsolete one you have to maintain because of those who still use it. I think that for Windows, the process of replacing x86 by x64 really started with Windows Vista, and that now, with Windows 7, the massive adoption of x64 starts. (step already done with Mac OS by the way) Until now, when you were looking for a driver, x86 drivers were the main ones (Windows XP x64 was almost not used) and x64 version of the driver not always available. It is clear that now, drivers will be develop for x64, and x86 obsolete versions derived from the the x64, and will not be the priority. I can easily imagine that the hardware process is the same. I don't think x86 prcessor is still correctly supported by a recent OS Who still uses an Intel 486 in a computer today ? If someone tell me that in his new product, he replaced an Intel 486 with a modern Intel x64 processor, I wouldn't say he is telling marketing bullshit, I would wonder why on earth that was not done earlier. -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
nicolas75;550294 Wrote: I don't think so. It is because I have to use and develop applications for x64 et x86, both Windows and Linux. So I am quite aware that the amount of work for maintaining both versions results in the fact that the main version is more carefully tested, reliable, and efficient, than the obsolete one you have to maintain because of those who still use it. I think that for Windows, the process of replacing x86 by x64 really started with Windows Vista, and that now, with Windows 7, the massive adoption of x64 starts. (step already done with Mac OS by the way) Until now, when you were looking for a driver, x86 drivers were the main ones (Windows XP x64 was almost not used) and x64 version of the driver not always available. It is clear that now, drivers will be develop for x64, and x86 obsolete versions will be derived from the x64, and will not be the priority. I can easily imagine that the hardware process is the same. I don't think x86 processor is still correctly supported by a recent OS Who still use an Intel 486 in a computer today ? If someone tell me that in his new product, he replaced an Intel 486 with a modern Intel x64 processor, I wouldn't say he is telling marketing bullshit, I would wonder why on earth that was not done earlier. If you just want to save small text files, a 3.5 floppy is enough. Anyway I am happy to use usb key instead, and have not used a floppy for years ... Is that only because of buzz and marketing bullshit ? Stop comparing Desktop/Server OS's to Embedded DSP. Apples and oranges. If someone was selling a Desktop or Server. Sure I'd want to hear 64bit. But that's NOT what we are dealing with. We are dealed with embedded OS or custom OS processing audio in real time. Who gives a crap of it's 64bit or 32bit or 16bit. As long as it does what it's supposed to do. Does that mean it will have less jitter? Does that mean it will have less errors? Does your 8bit, 16bit or 32bit embedded DSP systems crash more than a 64bit? It means absolutely NOTHING in embedded DSP world. They don't use Intel x86 or x64 desktop chips for embedded Audio DSP. Sorry, hate to clue ya. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The sound of jitter
There seems to have been some serious thread creep here. At the risk of going back to the original topic, I took the top off an old meridian CD player to see what sort of job it would be to intercept the S/PDIF signal chain. Multlayer PCB, tiny components, the chance of cutting a single track and connecting in an RC network is zero. However, it should be a simple matter to place an RC filter in-line in the coax S/PDIF signal between a source and a DAC. My current DAC pupports to have fancy anti jitter technology, but as far as I am aware the transporter has none. By connecting the meridian CD player to the TP digital in, intercepting the signal path with an RC filer and making R variable, I should be able to adjust the amount of jitter introduced into the circuit. I will let you know how I get on. Andy. -- Andy8421 Andy8421's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16846 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78790 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
