Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is Steve Guttenberg stupid?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20061877-47.html http://www.stereophile.com/content/when-musics-over Hmmm... -- michael123 Please fix http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16814 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85280 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet plus Beresford DAC or Touch, better sound?
Have a Touch and Beresford Caiman DAC. Sounds great. Much better than what I heard with Touch and RCA outs. Many hi-rez files also sound awesme... -- dufferdan SB Touch Beresford Caiman DAC Cambridge Azur 640 A v2 Intergrated Amp Rotel 1055 CD player Rotel 976 6 channel amp ->Kitchen/outdoor zones Royd Minstrel speakers Paradigm in-ceiling and outdoor speakers dufferdan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40529 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630931 Wrote: > > But if the waveform is still distorted. The way my speaker voice coil > moves is not right. I get your point that this is all happening to > signals that are so small (at 60 dBfs) that you can't hear it. But is > it undistorted? > > It kind of sounds like the crap they fed us for years about how the TV > signal (NTSC) was good enough even though they removed all kinds of > fine color detail from the signal to get it to fit into the same > bandwidth as the old black and white signal. They did all kinds of > experiments to show the eye couldn't pick up the missing signals. Now > set one of those babies side by side with a decent 1080P HDTV and see > which you prefer. > I sense something; a presence I've not felt since... -- Wombat Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;630927 Wrote: > > TerryS;630922 Wrote: > > > > > > That link clearly shows that the completely artificial (for reasons > > I've explained in my last post) distortion in the computer-generated > > signal at -60dB was changed into noise @~ -90dB. In other words, in > > real life the distortion doesn't get heard because it is rendered into > > inaudible noise. > > > > You are missing the point that you could NEVER see that distorted trace > > on a scope or indeed outside of a computer simulation! > > > > To get back to the OP, the tests (just like ADM difference tests) can > > detect changes that are very low-level . Of real interest is the > > question: could those changes ever be audible when listening to music? > > > > ADM detects 2 sorts of difference; one with a definite residue of music > > in it and one that is pure noise...> > > > > 60dB doesn't seem like it is so low it would be swamped by noise. I > would expect 80 dB to be easily obtainable in a studio, which puts > the noise 20 dB below the signal. I agree it is pretty low, but I > don't know that I'd say it was inaudible. > So the distortion components are rendered inaudible at -90dB or more, > but if the time domain waveform is still distorted, what does that > mean? Color me confused. > The time domain waveform is what is moving my speaker voice coil in > and out with respect to time. So the waveform that moves my speaker > is distorted, but I can't hear the distortion because the distortion > is moved out of band (or smeered out in frequency, the story changes > depending on which version you read)? > It seems to me that what they are saying, is dithering makes the > distortion less objectionable. In fact that is exactly what the page > says: > > Quote: > "Have we smoothed the waves? Not in the slightest. Look at Figure 6, > where I've zoomed in on the top of two of the resulting cycles. If > anything, the waves are even bumpier than they were in Figure 4. But > now the bumps are in different places on each cycle. Similarly, by > filtering out the 980 hertz fundamental I measured and calculated the > average noise level to be a mere 30dB below the -60dBFS signal, or > somewhat higher than the average total harmonic distortion. > > Nevertheless, white noise at -93.3dBFS (which is what this was) is > rarely audible, and certainly less objectionable, than high order > harmonic distortion. > > There was no magic here. Just a mathematical conversion of high > levels of regular (and irritating) harmonic distortion, which was > concentrated into some very narrow parts of the frequency spectrum, > into a low level of far more tolerable white noise which is spread > across the whole spectrum. More succinctly, we've just pushed down > those objectionable spikes into the ground which, in turn, has risen > a bit. But the ground is now flat and far less likely to be tripped > over. > " > > But if the waveform is still distorted. The way my speaker voice > coil moves is not right. I get your point that this is all happening > to signals that are so small (at 60 dBfs) that you can't hear it. But > is it undistorted? > > It kind of sounds like the crap they fed us for years about how the > TV signal (NTSC) was good enough even though they removed all kinds > of fine color detail from the signal to get it to fit into the same > bandwidth as the old black and white signal. They did all kinds of > experiments to show the eye couldn't pick up the missing signals. > Now set one of those babies side by side with a decent 1080P HDTV and > see which you prefer. > > Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630922 Wrote: > > Phil Leigh;630898 Wrote: > > > > > > You guys and reality get over it would ya? > > Actually, what you say makes good sense of course. > > > > But here's a question that actually sort of relates to the original > > post that started this thread... > > The link you just posted: > > http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/dvdaudio/dither.htm > > Says (if I am reading it right), that dithering does not eliminate the > > distortion, but moves it out of band. Another way I have heard it > > described is decorrelating the distortion so it is less objectionable > > or audible. > > But the link seems to clearly say the signal is still distorted. So > > the technique talked about at the start of this thread might pick up on > > that, while a "normal" distortion measurement would not. > > But what about what I hear? Since the time domain presentation of the > > signal still shows it as distorted, can we be sure the ear doesn't hear > > the distortion? It seems strange to me to say I have a signal that is > > clearly distorted when I look at it in the time domain (on an > > oscilloscope), but we say it has no distortion. What's up with that? > > Terry> > > > That link clearly shows that the completely artificial (for reasons > I've explained in my last post) distortion in the computer-generated > signal at -60dB was changed into noise @~ -90dB. In other words, in > real life the distortion doesn't get heard because it is rendered > into inaudible noise. > > You are missing the point that you could NEVER see that distorted > trace on a scope or indeed outside of a computer simulation! > > To get back to the OP, the tests (just like ADM difference tests) can > detect changes that are very low-level . Of real interest is the > question: could those changes ever be audible when listening to > music? > > ADM detects 2 sorts of difference; one with a definite residue of > music in it and one that is pure noise... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;630898 Wrote: > > TerryS;630894 Wrote: > > > > > > In reality you cannot have an undithered signal because enough noise to > > provide the dither signal is fortunately always present in the input > > signal to an ADC when recording real acoustic music. > > > > There is only one known use-case where this is not true and that is if > > you generate samples using a computer.> > > > You guys and reality get over it would ya? > Actually, what you say makes good sense of course. > > But here's a question that actually sort of relates to the original > post that started this thread... > The link you just posted: > http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/dvdaudio/dither.htm > Says (if I am reading it right), that dithering does not eliminate > the distortion, but moves it out of band. Another way I have heard > it described is decorrelating the distortion so it is less > objectionable or audible. > But the link seems to clearly say the signal is still distorted. So > the technique talked about at the start of this thread might pick up > on that, while a "normal" distortion measurement would not. > But what about what I hear? Since the time domain presentation of > the signal still shows it as distorted, can we be sure the ear > doesn't hear the distortion? It seems strange to me to say I have a > signal that is clearly distorted when I look at it in the time domain > (on an oscilloscope), but we say it has no distortion. What's up with > that? > Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630891 Wrote: > Stand alone. hmmm... you may wish to revisit that later. Being able to run a plugin like Inguz (for EQ) might be more helpful than sticking treatments on your walls... anyway this is all academic - lets wait and see what it ACTUALLY sounds like first! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630894 Wrote: > > Phil Leigh;630852 Wrote: > > Are you saying that you find noise an issue with 16-bit playback? > > > > Anyway, when you say "it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01%" > > what exactly do you mean? If you mean without dithering (ie > > theoretical) then yes - but fortunately this isn't what ever happens. > > > > QUOTE] > > > > I am (incorrectly of course) interchanging "distortion" with > > "quantization error". It takes about 13 bits to get the quantization > > error below 0.01% To me, that is "distortion", although I know there > > is a difference in how they are specified and measured. But any > > difference between the desired signal and the actual output is > > distortion (to me). > > So I am saying you would have to have 13 bits left over to resolve the > > signal when it was at -100 dBc. I can't count on dithering to bail me > > out, because I don't want noise present. The noise would have to be 30 > > dB or more below my signal level (at -100dBc) to keep from corrupting my > > nice clean 0.01% distortion signal. As the link you provided points > > out, dithering doesn't eliminate the distortion of the signal, it just > > moves the distortion components out of band. If the signal is still > > distorted, it doesn't work for me. > > Like the quote rgro provided: > > "High Fidelity is not an end in itself but something always to be > > pursued. I doubt if anyone will ever catch up with it." > > That's how I see it. > > > > Actually, CD quality is probably plenty good enough for me, and 24 bit > > /96kHz is probably overkill for me, but that doesn't mean I think we > > are done now and can quit trying to improve. Not until we reach > > "perfect". > > > > Terry> > > > In reality you cannot have an undithered signal because enough noise > to provide the dither signal is fortunately always present in the > input signal to an ADC when recording real acoustic music. > > There is only one known use-case where this is not true and that is > if you generate samples using a computer. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cat5 or not ?
There is already an existing wall socket in the lounge which feeds an external cat5 cable which terminates in another wall socket in the small bedroom. Could the external cable which feeds round the side of the house just be extended using a spliter or terminated and extended to the garage ? The wire into the little bedroom is really no longer needed. -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;630852 Wrote: > Are you saying that you find noise an issue with 16-bit playback? > > Anyway, when you say "it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01%" > what exactly do you mean? If you mean without dithering (ie > theoretical) then yes - but fortunately this isn't what ever happens. > > QUOTE] > > I am (incorrectly of course) interchanging "distortion" with > "quantization error". It takes about 13 bits to get the quantization > error below 0.01% To me, that is "distortion", although I know there > is a difference in how they are specified and measured. But any > difference between the desired signal and the actual output is > distortion (to me). > So I am saying you would have to have 13 bits left over to resolve the > signal when it was at -100 dBc. I can't count on dithering to bail me > out, because I don't want noise present. The noise would have to be 30 > dB or more below my signal level (at -100dBc) to keep from corrupting my > nice clean 0.01% distortion signal. As the link you provided points > out, dithering doesn't eliminate the distortion of the signal, it just > moves the distortion components out of band. If the signal is still > distorted, it doesn't work for me. > Like the quote rgro provided: > "High Fidelity is not an end in itself but something always to be > pursued. I doubt if anyone will ever catch up with it." > That's how I see it. > > Actually, CD quality is probably plenty good enough for me, and 24 bit > /96kHz is probably overkill for me, but that doesn't mean I think we > are done now and can quit trying to improve. Not until we reach > "perfect". > > Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630887 Wrote: > Actually, I'm not one of those that thinks that I need all of the > supersonic harmonics to make the music sound right, but who knows? For > me personally, I know albums are capable of content to about 40kHz, and > I don't think we should ever step backward. So I'm good with 96kHz > sampling rate. > > Terry Capable - yes with high distortion and noise! Actually contain? - not so often :-) (excepting CD-4 quad of course...) It's hard cutting an album with 40kHz content from tapes with nothing over 20-25Khz (ie anything recorded before ~1980) :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Stand alone. -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630883 Wrote: > OK it's kingspan with 2x12.5 plasterboard with the green glue sandwiched > in between it for the outer long wall (edge on the border with neighbors > garden) and it the wall that connects with the kitchen. > > The existing fire door is going to replace the door that leads to the > garden (storage area)(more secure). > > What kind of door should I consider from the living area to the kitchen > ? > > Should I consider some kind of acoustic treatment on the stud wall or > any of other walls ? Saw some very expensive sound panels at the Sound > & Vision show (£400). > > > Any cheaper alternatives that are pictures ? > > 10 downlighters 8 down each side and 2 central interdependently > controlled by a 3 gang dimmer switch. > > PS It's great being a project manager and not getting paid for it > whilst trying to maintain a full time job in IT. Along side organising > a 80's reunion at my Folk Centre for 130 people. It was where I was > introduced to music as a teenager before I started going to the > Hacienda. I was one of the first people to here a demo tape of the > Stone Roses as my friend is John Squires cousin! > > > > PS I would get a solid wood door - some from Distinctive Doors maybe? http://www.distinctivedoors.co.uk/ Superb quality - I have them throughout the ground floor. DO NOT SPEND ANY MONEY ON ACOUSTIC TREATMENTS... wait until the speakers are in Are you running SBS on a PC? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
adamdea;630850 Wrote: > Actually given your concern about wishing to capture the harmonics of 20 > kHz fundamentals, it seems to me that the 96 is a bit low- just one > harmonic > Surely what you are looking at in the round is 32/384 which I think > some dacs operate at (in theory) Actually, I'm not one of those that thinks that I need all of the supersonic harmonics to make the music sound right, but who knows? For me personally, I know albums are capable of content to about 40kHz, and I don't think we should ever step backward. So I'm good with 96kHz sampling rate. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
OK it's kingspan with 2x12.5 plasterboard with the green glue sandwiched in between it for the outer long wall (edge on the border with neighbors garden) and it the wall that connects with the kitchen. The existing fire door is going to replace the door that leads to the garden (storage area)(more secure). What kind of door should I consider from the living area to the kitchen ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630879 Wrote: > Any opinions on Electric Radiators ? > > Thinking of this one > > http://www.heatecradiators.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id1=134 > > Any good alternatives ? (seriously) with all that insulation you may find you don't need much heat - mind you I'm in the South... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630878 Wrote: > In the ceiling too ? > > Thanks again Phil, I'm taking photos at stages so i'll post on here. yes in the ceiling too... looking forward to the pics and also the results of your speaker placement experiments -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Any opinions on Electric Radiators ? Thinking of this one http://www.heatecradiators.co.uk/product-detail.asp?id1=134 Any good alternatives ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
In the ceiling too ? Thanks again Phil, I'm taking photos at stages so i'll post on here. -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cat5 or not ?
sebp;630870 Wrote: > I just don't get that. > When properly implemented, shielding is a good thing. Shielded cable can bridge noise into devices by bypassing the galvanic isolation. In particular, do not use a shielded cable into an SB player as you do not want to couple any noise into the ground plane. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630872 Wrote: > Phil so do i still need the green glue between the two layers of the > plasterboard ? > > http://www.greenglue.co.uk/greenGlue-vs-SoundBoard.pdf > > They will be on the stud wall which will be at the opposite end of the > room to the window. > > I think I will drop the level a bit. Dali brackets arriving next week > from Denmark! > > Speakers not being ordered until room nears completion. > > > Should I not worry about substituting the Kingspan for the rockwool ( I > feel the builder might use an alternative to Kingspan) I see - the Green Glue seems to buy you an extra 6dB of transmission blockage. I'd keep it. If the builder is NOT using kingspan, get him to use Rockwool slab instead. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Phil so do i still need the green glue between the two layers of the plasterboard ? http://www.greenglue.co.uk/greenGlue-vs-SoundBoard.pdf They will be on the stud wall which will be at the opposite end of the room to the window. I think I will drop the level a bit. Dali brackets arriving next week from Denmark! Speakers not being ordered until room nears completion. Should I not worry about substituting the Kingspan for the rockwool ( I feel the builder might use an alternative to Kingspan) -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cat5 or not ?
Phil Leigh;630014 Wrote: > cat 5 or cat 6 is fine, just avoid "shielded" cat 6 I just don't get that. When properly implemented, shielding is a good thing. +---+ |Filename: Au-bout-du-port-03.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11846| +---+ -- sebp 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/sebp) sebp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11768 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
The Dritherm will behave similarly to Rockwool slab. The Kingspan is all about thermal insulation but it will have some acoustic benefits too. I think your plans are fine for what is after all still a normal room. Which wall are the speakers being mounted on? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630836 Wrote: > Why not just have us input 1 on amp 1 and input 2 on amp 2? > Then if you chose input 1, amp 1 will play and vice versa. > No need for remote programming at all then. True - yes, you are correct that would work. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cat5 or not ?
My neighbor and i installed 300' of direct burial CAT5e cable between our houses a few years ago. It has stood up to the test of time. Currently it's running at 1Gbps. i think it cost us about $100 for the cable. cheers, -- sfraser 2 Chan. System SB3->Benchmark DAC-1-> Bryston(BP-25,3B)->PMC TB2 Home Theater System SB2-> Bryston(SP1,4B,4B,2B,2B)-> PSB Stratus Goldi Basement System SB2-> Parasound Preamp (carver M1.0t) ->Klipsch La Scala's Bedroom System SB2-> Sony BoomBox Rear Deck/Patio Duet-> Yamaha Reciever-> PSB Mini's, sfraser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cat5 or not ?
ralphpnj;630039 Wrote: > Exactly my point! 60MBytes/sec is a little more than half of > 100MBytes/sec and nowhere near 1000MBytes/sec, which is supposed to be > the speed for Gigabit Ethernet. It is 480Mbps net, which could be higher maybe if I was not reading from the storage but memory, I do not know... It is not bad, and is way above what is needed to stream blu-ray rip simultaneously to 10 rooms in parallel :) [ but what was your point? ] -- michael123 Please fix http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16814 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
OK now I'm home and I've got the plans. Originally the plans were submitted and with the revisions by bulding control it was as follows - new stud wall between living area and storage. 75x50 sw stud wall with Rockwool acoustic insulation --(as Phil suggested). New front wall with windows - External skin 100 x50 studding constructed 25-50mm from inside vapour barrier on the warm side of insulation. Where the new cavity brickwork is installed a 85mm cavity filled with Crown Dritherm and 13mm dense plaster. -- Do I take it rockwool is not needed here then ? On the other walls 25mm to be left between inside face of existing single brickwork, then 100 x 75 sw studding with 75 mm kingspan between studs, vapour barrier (1200 visqueen) then insulation backed plasterboard 25mm. -- Will the 75mm Rockwool rwa45 be an acceptable replacement for the Kinspan? for building regs ? With 2 sheets of 12.5mm plasterboard (by default are they insulation backed ?) The connecting wall to the kitchen was 2 layers of 12.5m plasterboard with green glue in between. 75 x50 sw studs at600mm nominal centres with 75mm kingspan against 190mm turbo brickwork. --- again do away with green glue and replace the kingspan with the Rockwool ? Floor - insulation 110mm of kingspan kool therm k3 or similar. Carpet top layer -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Just happened across a quote from Emory Cook on the liner notes of a somewhat ancient (early 50's recording) LP I was ripping: "High Fidelity is not an end in itself but something always to be pursued. I doubt if anyone will ever catch up with it." Some things never change! -- rgro Rick System information Main: PS Audio Quintet > Vortexbox > Touch (wired) via spdif coax > Rega DAC > Marantz PM8003 > VA Mozart Grands > REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: SBR (Wired) > Pioneer VSX 919 > Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.5.4 r32298 running on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 1.8. Touch w/Hardware V.5. Touch: FW 7.5.4 r9408. Duet: FW 68. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630844 Wrote: > Well someone said 21 bits is doable. That's 126 dB dynamic range. So > it is not a noise floor issue. With the noise 26 dB below the lowest > signal, it should be out of the way. > The trouble is, it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01% > And 17 bits to get to 100 dB dynamic range. > So in my fairy tale world, you would need 13 + 17 = 30 bits of > resolution! > Geez, it sucks to be an audiophile > > Terry Are you saying that you find noise an issue with 16-bit playback? Anyway, when you say "it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01%" what exactly do you mean? If you mean without dithering (ie theoretical) then yes - but fortunately this isn't what ever happens. This page explains it nicely. http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/dvdaudio/dither.htm In practice (which is all that matters) noise - or distortion if you prefer - is well below the 0.01%. In their example, the residual noise is ~30dB below a -60dB signal. This is why digital has (pretty much) killed off analogue in professional recording environments - analogue can't get anywhere near this performance. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Actually given your concern about wishing to capture the harmonics of 20 kHz fundamentals, it seems to me that the 96 is a bit low- just one harmonic Surely what you are looking at in the round is 32/384 which I think some dacs operate at (in theory) -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Well someone said 21 bits is doable. That's 126 dB dynamic range. So it is not a noise floor issue. With the noise 26 dB below the lowest signal, it should be out of the way. The trouble is, it takes 13 bits to get to 0.01% And 17 bits to get to 100 dB dynamic range. So in my fairy tale world, you would need 13 + 17 = 30 bits of resolution! Geez, it sucks to be an audiophile Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630835 Wrote: > My solution is way simpler than that :-) - it would take a few minutes > to program the pre-amps... and as I said, it would work for ANY source, > can be trimmed for volume easily (any pre-amp with programmable inputs > also has programmable levels per input) is ultimate quality (no extra > equipment in the line) and requires 100% off the shelf components. > > Remember, these guys can afford two parallel setups - this isn't > something you or I would ever do :-) Actually mine is simpler since it does not need any pre-amps at all. ;) Besides, there is no need for programmble inputs and/or remotes in your setup. ;) -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630225 Wrote: > Touch to DAC with 2 parallel outputs to - 2 identical pre or integrated > amps that have configurable IR remote input selection (ie most > mid-to-high end "non hair shirt" gear). These are then programmed so > that selecting (say) Input 1 on one amp also simultaneously selects > Input 2 on the other and vice versa. Why not just have us input 1 on amp 1 and input 2 on amp 2? Then if you chose input 1, amp 1 will play and vice versa. No need for remote programming at all then. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630831 Wrote: > Acutally i can be done very easy with simple html making 2 http call to > SBS, at least when using web browser. > > OP never said he anything about using A/B switch in an amp, he said > they did not want to use an external A/B switch. > > If one still want to use 2 SBTs, the simplest solution would be using a > 2 SBTs connected to a DAC (could also be a AV pre/pro or AV Reciever) > with remote controlled input selection and 2 coax (or 2 TOSLINK) > inputs. > > EDIT: Obviously the DAC would need to be connected to 2 set of amps. My solution is way simpler than that :-) - it would take a few minutes to program the pre-amps... and as I said, it would work for ANY source, can be trimmed for volume easily (any pre-amp with programmable inputs also has programmable levels per input) is ultimate quality (no extra equipment in the line) and requires 100% off the shelf components. Remember, these guys can afford two parallel setups - this isn't something you or I would ever do :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Soulkeeper;630832 Wrote: > Because different speakers have different sensitivity, and matching the > volume after the power amp stage isn't desireable (doing anything to > the signal after the power amp stage generally isn't desireable). So it > follows that each set of speakers should have at least separate power > amps. > > Matching the volume before a single source gets "split" isn't > desireable either, because then you'd have to re-trim the volume > (automatically or manually) every time you switch between speaker sets. > > > > > Because then you could match the volume simply by adjusting the volume > knob on each of the two pre-amps (or passive attenuators), if you so > desired. Fair enough. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630825 Wrote: > Why would there be a matching problem with one amp or one pre-amp? Because different speakers have different sensitivity, and matching the volume after the power amp stage isn't desireable (doing anything to the signal after the power amp stage generally isn't desireable). So it follows that each set of speakers should have at least separate power amps. Matching the volume before a single source gets "split" isn't desireable either, because then you'd have to re-trim the volume (automatically or manually) every time you switch between speaker sets. johann;630825 Wrote: > And why would that be less of a problem in a setup with 2 SBT with one > amp each? Because then you could match the volume simply by adjusting the volume knob on each of the two pre-amps (or passive attenuators), if you so desired. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630829 Wrote: > It can't be easily done without bespoke coding - there is NO way to > "toggle" with a single control. You could do it with a macro on a > remote... but you need the 2 Touches to respond to 2 different IR > command sets. > > Also, the approach would then be 100% dependent on the Touch as a > source. > > > My solution is 100% source hardware independent ;-). > > They don't want to use an A/B switch on the speakers to avoid sound > quality issues - also you would need IR remote switching - that would > probably be a custom build. Acutally i can be done very easy with simple html making 2 http call to SBS, at least when using web browser. OP never said he anything about using A/B switch in an amp, he said they did not want to use an external A/B switch. If one still want to use 2 SBTs, the simplest solution would be using a 2 SBTs connected to a DAC (could also be a AV pre/pro or AV Reciever) with remote controlled input selection and 2 coax (or 2 TOSLINK) inputs. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
johann;630795 Wrote: > But i can easily be done from other devioes such as iPeng in iPad or > iPhone , from web browser, etc. > > However, sounds like an output switch of some kind would be much > easier, like a pre-amp with A and B speakers selectable from remote. > > Cheers > Johan It can't be easily done without bespoke coding. Also, the approach would then be 100% dependent on the Touch as a source. My solution is source hardware independent ;-). They don't want to use an A/B switch on the speakers to avoid sound quality issues - also you would need IR remote switching - that would probably be a custom build. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630790 Wrote: > Would I just need 1xsheet of 12mm normal plasterboard with this stuff ? > > Phil any reason why the reviewers only give it 3* ? > > Would this be needed on the wall connecting to the kitchen ? > > Is it going to considerably reduce the width of the 8ft room ? > > Is it cheaper than 2x12mm boards with green glue ? I'm no longer clear if we are talking about soundproofing as you would do for a semi-pro/home studio or not. In the past I have always used rockwool behind 2 layers of 12mm plasterboard (one layer laid at 90 degrees to the other). If the plasterboard is laid onto 2 inch studding there is no loss of depth in the room - the wall is 3 inch depth in total over and above the brickwork, the rockwool fits in the cavity that would be there anyway. I have no idea about "green glue" - I have never used it/ don't know what it is... I have always treated all walls equally, becuase I wanted very good soundproofing both from the studio to the house and vice versa And also from the outside (traffic noise etc). Sorry I can't be of more help. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Soulkeeper;630816 Wrote: > Then you'll have a problem matching the volume. > > Two synched Touches, and some kind of SqueezeOS hack, or SBS hook, to > mute them selectively, could well be the "cleanest" solution in some > ways. Why would there be a matching problem with one amp or one pre-amp? And why would that be less of a problem in a setup with 2 SBT with one amp each? -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Then you'll have a problem matching the volume. Two synched Touches, and some kind of SqueezeOS hack, or SBS hook, to mute them selectively, could well be the "cleanest" solution in some ways. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Phil Leigh;630789 Wrote: > You can't do that easily with JUST 2 Touches because they will respond > to the same IR commands, even if not synced! But i can easily be done from other devioes such as iPeng in iPad or iPhone , from web browser, etc. However, sounds like an output switch of some kind would be much easier, like a pre-amp with A and B speakers selectable from remote. Cheers Johan -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
brodeur;630785 Wrote: > Exactly, seems like an odd B-solution for a professional setup. I don't think you understand the requirement. 2 Touches need to drive 2 amps and 2 pairs of speakers. Then you need a means of (easily) toggling between 1 Touch playing and the other muted and then that player being muted and the other one playing... You can't do that easily with JUST 2 Touches because they will respond to the same IR commands, even if not synced! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Would I just need 1xsheet of 12mm normal plasterboard with this stuff ? Phil any reason why the reviewers only give it 3* ? Would this be needed on the wall connecting to the kitchen ? Is it going to considerably reduce the width of the 8ft room ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630784 Wrote: > 1st priority meeting building regs > > 2nd stop sound escaping (within budget) original plans submitted showed > 2x12mm board & green glue just on wall that connects to our kitchen. > > Thinking of adding to the other walls but not in the storage area. > > 3rd Improve rooom acoustics within budget. I know sound boards, good > curtains, we're having carpet can be added. Filling the cavity behind the plasterboard with fire-retardant rockwool slab RWA45 like this: http://www.greenglueshop.co.uk/products-page/acoustic-construction-products/rockwool-rwa45-acoustic-insulation-slabs-50mm/ complies with UK building regs. I thought that is what you were planning? It will also keep the room warmer :-) Personally I would fill all walls - but the main focus would be any wall(s) that connect to the body of the house. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
snottmonster;630174 Wrote: > Just a thought - but wouldn't it be a lot less effort to just have 2 SB > Touch? You could sync them if you are wanting to switch between speaker > setups while your tracks are playing Exactly, seems like an odd B-solution for a professional setup. -- brodeur brodeur's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
1st priority meeting building regs 2nd stop sound escaping (within budget) original plans submitted showed 2x12mm board & green glue just on wall that connects to our kitchen. Thinking of adding to the other walls but not in the storage area. 3rd Improve rooom acoustics within budget. I know sound boards, good curtains, we're having carpet can be added. -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cat5 or not ?
tank121;630077 Wrote: > Is there a special cat5 cable for external use e.g. out of the wall of > the lounge round the external walls and into the garage ? I ran cables between a couple of houses a few years back using regular CAT5 and and burying it in cheap PVC plumbing pipe from Home Depot. Worked great, though having cheap labor available to do the ditching helps. -- gharris999 gharris999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=115 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
What are you trying to do? Stop sound escaping or make your room sound good inside? -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cat5 or not ?
Poynton Cheshire. What would you charge ? I'm no good on ladders! -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Behind the plasterboards will be some kingspan insulation I believe having got plans and paperwork with me at work. The insulation is sufficent to meet building regs/control. -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
In layman terms and within my budget are you saying using acoustic boards will be better than 2x12mm boards with green glue in between ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
.. and triangulate the bracing so there are no regular rectangular panels. -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
cliveb;630749 Wrote: > No, Terry wants 0.01% distortion at -100dB (!) > > 24 bits ain't enough. And of course analogue doesn't have a > snowball-in-hell's chance. I'd hazard a guess that obtaining figures > like that would require everything to be liquid nitrogen cooled :-) Indeed - Johnson Noise is a problem for analogue (including the "A" part of ADC's and DAC's) even if you cryo-suspend everything... :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630691 Wrote: > For the garage the boarding is going be 2 x 12mm plasterboard with green > glue sandwiched into between it. > > I was going to just do the wall that joins onto the kitchen and the > external long wall. > > Not bothering to use the green glue between the boards in the storage > area are on the 8ft wall where the window will be . Your thoughts > please. Should the window wall be done too ? What's behind the plasterboard? - really the cavity should be filled with acoustic rockwool slabs or similar -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;630658 Wrote: > So, your "good enough" is near-as-damnit met by Redbook for SNR/dynamic > range and wildly exceeded for distortion (modern DAC's achieve 0.0001% > distortion) No, Terry wants 0.01% distortion at -100dB (!) 24 bits ain't enough. And of course analogue doesn't have a snowball-in-hell's chance. I'd hazard a guess that obtaining figures like that would require everything to be liquid nitrogen cooled :-) -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Why not use acoustic plasterboard as well? -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
