Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Fidelizer & SBT.. Why should it work?
mlsstl wrote: > A couple of thoughts... > > First, my system has to share a room with lots of other stuff from > modern life. Besides the Squeezebox Touch with an amp & speakers, there > is a TV, Roku, laptop, switch, Kindle Fire, cell phones, a cordless > phone, my daughter's iPad and occasionally her laptop. I control the > volume with the Touch's volume control so the amp is set fairly wide > open. Even with my ear to the speaker, I've never heard the slightest > hint of EMI breakthrough on the stereo speakers. I've also never heard a > change in sound quality in the system that I can attribute to which of > the devices are present in the room or which ones are on or off. (The > only breakthrough problem I ever had was when I had a turntable in the > system and the guy a couple of houses away would broadcast on his > shortwave radio through the antenna on the outdoor tower. The neighbor > and his tower are still there but the Touch seems completely immune.) > > Second, radio wave strength follows the inverse square rule, so even a > foot or two is a lot of distance compared to having gear immediately > adjacent to each other. > > Third, I don't think it is a particularly unusual complaint that some > high-end electronic devices willingly sacrifice some of the traditional > signal isolation methods commonly used in the communications industry > and scientific equipment. Some pieces of fancy equipment may indeed be > more susceptible to interference than even middle market gear. > > Finally, the effects that people claim to hear are often at the edge of > perception and rarely are subject to any repeatable test criteria. > > I know that I'm the biggest variable there is in my system. Perhaps it > is just my aged hearing, decrepit mind or inferior system, but when I > have to strain to decide if what I'm hearing is real or imagined, I've > ceased to worry much about it. That makes it a lot easier to just enjoy > the music. ;-) Yeh John is on the weird edge here ?? these are corner cases, normally you don't have system wide interference from several rooms away or such on perceivable levels Cell phones can make it in if your close enough a feet as you say. But something must be technically wrong if the rf from a wireless mouse find it's way in , are we talking tube hif here or ? But a factor is weird audiophile grade equipment as you say , there was some fetish in having things with very high slewrate and thus ultra wide bandwith especially in power amps vs a more level headed company as Quad always have bandwith limited inputs to not get exactly those problerms we where discussing . And even more daft stuff like no shielded casing is it not dnm that thinks metal cases "sounds bad" :) There is another factor improper equipment setup especially grounding ,not all outlets have a ground prong (maybe in GB ) but some hifi is designed to be grounded some people don't install a grounded outlet to the hifi (but indulge in voodo power cables instead, eh). I had an power amp that did receive FM radio I could not get why untill I've found out that the seller gave me the wrong power cable it did not have ground . Another case of wrong grounding can be shielded cat6 cables, that is used in way that gives you ground loops, simply at home do not use shielded Ethernet it has an application in very harsh industrial settings To be practical I dont hear a difference pulling the plug SBGK did not hear a difference and many more forum members do not I think it is a valid enough test , there might be rare weird exceptions , but it is so audiophile to always seek the fringe explanation . In most cases folks hifi equipment are not subject to subtle sq changes due to interference . I have not upgraded hifi in years I also enjoy the music . And lets not forget some basics that must be disproved before any subtle source mod is to be taken seriously . There is not even a case for that we can hear a difference between *any* source component if the source is reasonably well designed and the DAC is reasonably well designed , if ie nothing is technically wrong all source components sound the same into a DAC . This is usually the case in scientifically conducted tests , but this is a reasonable provisional fact imo . So why not just use a suitable digital cable (BJ or similar not boutique stuff ) connect the unmodified Touch to your dac or processor and enjoy the music :) it works just try . Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95644 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Fidelizer & SBT.. Why should it work?
A couple of thoughts... First, my system has to share a room with lots of other stuff from modern life. Besides the Squeezebox Touch with an amp & speakers, there is a TV, Roku, laptop, switch, Kindle Fire, cell phones, a cordless phone, my daughter's iPad and occasionally her laptop. I control the volume with the Touch's volume control so the amp is set fairly wide open. Even with my ear to the speaker, I've never heard the slightest hint of EMI breakthrough on the stereo speakers. I've also never heard a change in sound quality in the system that I can attribute to which of the devices are present in the room or which ones are on or off. (The only breakthrough problem I ever had was when I had a turntable in the system and the guy a couple of houses away would broadcast on his shortwave radio through the antenna on the outdoor tower. The neighbor and his tower are still there but the Touch seems completely immune.) Second, radio wave strength follows the inverse square rule, so even a foot or two is a lot of distance compared to having gear immediately adjacent to each other. Third, I don't think it is a particularly unusual complaint that some high-end electronic devices willingly sacrifice some of the traditional signal isolation methods commonly used in the communications industry and scientific equipment. Some pieces of fancy equipment may indeed be more susceptible to interference than even middle market gear. Finally, the effects that people claim to hear are often at the edge of perception and rarely are subject to any repeatable test criteria. I know that I'm the biggest variable there is in my system. Perhaps it is just my aged hearing, decrepit mind or inferior system, but when I have to strain to decide if what I'm hearing is real or imagined, I've ceased to worry much about it. That makes it a lot easier to just enjoy the music. ;-) mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95644 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as server (digital outs)- a few basic questions
jh901 wrote: > Super. Thanks! > > My DAC doesn't have a USB input but it does claim to accept up to 192 > via coax or AES. So if I get the Touch and install this applet, then > the digital outs will send native 192? Please confirm. > > Also, fill me in on how difficult it is to acquire and install the > applet. > > Much appreciated! should be very simple with S/PDIF coax out to your DAC. Just install EDO. All the "uncertain" stuff relates to whether particular DACs work with USB, with or without hub. See thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput&highlight=triodes+192 garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95476 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Fidelizer & SBT.. Why should it work?
John Thank you. Yes, I realise that you were referring to the 'pull the ethernet cable' test, but the underlying implication seemed rather serious. I have to say I'm amazed at your findings. I can't believe that what you've encountered is common. I once had a 'music centre' (all the rage 30 to 35 years ago) on which I made cassette tape recordings of FM broadcasts (you've guessed it - the top 40 countdown), and I used to regularly detect clicks and pops from the kitchen fluorescent lights being switched on or the fridge motor switching on. But it's been many many years since I've encountered any sort of extraneous noise through my hifi. Tell a lie - a couple of years ago I built a gutted SB2 into the same case as my home-built pre-amp, and careless routing of the wifi pigtail resulted in audible noise whenever the SB2 buffer refilled. But that was an isolated incident, and apart from that my hifi is gloriously immune to any kind of electrical noise or SQ degradation, even from my Mac Mini server running within a few feet of my amplifiers. chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95644 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as server (digital outs)- a few basic questions
Super. Thanks! My DAC doesn't have a USB input but it does claim to accept up to 192 via coax or AES. So if I get the Touch and install this applet, then the digital outs will send native 192? Please confirm. Also, fill me in on how difficult it is to acquire and install the applet. Much appreciated! jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95476 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Fidelizer & SBT.. Why should it work?
chill wrote: > John > > I can't tell if you're just being mischievous, but if not, are you > seriously suggesting that the mere presence of a powered-up computer in > the same house as the hifi will have an audible effect? That's a bit of > a blow for the whole computer-based audio industry. But moreover, and > returning to the OPs point I suppose, are you suggesting that the > changes in EMI and mains noise between a computer that's running > Fidelizer and one that's not will be audible? > > I realise that your post is describing a theoretical possibility only > (hence the capitalised 'COULD'), but what is the likelihood of these > effects being audible in the real world? How bad would your components > have to be for such minuscule things to have an impact? IMO, the > plug-pull test is already convincing enough. I'm being serious. A computer sitting on the same shelf as your stereo system can have a significant affect on said stereo system from airborne EMI and noise on the power line. If it's three rooms away the effects will be much less. This thread never specified any geometrical arrangement of the components. I know several people who have tried to use their laptop to control an SB, the laptop was across the room from the stereo, they could hear noise on the stero system when they moved the mouse on the laptop. What is going on inside the computer can have an affect on the sound without changing bits. I did some tests on this quite a few years ago testing a bunch of desk tops, laptops, small things such as Mac mini's, embedded devices like FitPCs etc. I did this with my stereo system, and with a few friend's systems. In all these tests it was a computer in the listening room, but NOT right next to the stereo system, usually across the room. Note that the computers being testsed had nothing to do with the audio. The stereo was being fed by an SB conected by wire to a server a long ways away. The computers under test were just doing things like web broswsing etc. The worst by FAR were the laptops, almost everyone was audible in some way, either directly emitting sound (through the stereo) or changing audio that was playing. Desk tops fared quite a bit better, either not audible at all or not as much affect. Small general purpose computers such as Mac minis did a little better, but still could be heard under some situations, embedded devices such as a FitPC were inaudible no matter what we had them doing. The method of "contamination" from the laptops seemed to EMI, they did just as bad when run off batteries. We tried wrapping one in aluminum foil (kind of hard to use in that state!) and it's affect went way down. Whether the screen was up or down also had a significant affect. So yes computers CAN affect sound quality, and something which is changing the underlying behavior of said computer could very well change it's impact on sound quality. I have no knowledge about the program in question here so I'm not making any comment about it, I was primarily refering to the use of the "pull the ethernet cable" test as being definitive, if the server computer is still running there is the possibility that it can still be affecting the sound quality through means other than direct connection to the SB. John S. JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95644 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
So I have to decide if I go: a) EDO > Touch USB out > Audiophilleo/Pure Power > DAC b) TT 3.0 > Touch S/PDIF out > Synchro-Mesh (with possible PS upgrade) > DAC Turnandcough's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
HumanMedia wrote: > > 2. A definitely positive improvement for me. But I'm running the AP2 > with the PurePower battery option which disconnects the USB power line > and offers electrical isolation as well as clocking the data. Purepower only powers the SPDIF output stage. The RISC processor and USB receiver chip in the AP2 are still powered by computer/touch USB power. Jeff Flowerday's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Turnandcough wrote: > > 1) Can I use the Touch USB output with an Audiophilleo? Do I need to > install EDO? > 2) Theoretically(or empirically) would this setup be an improvement on a > straight coax out to coax in on my DAC > 1. Yes and yes. 2. A definitely positive improvement for me. But I'm running the AP2 with the PurePower battery option which disconnects the USB power line and offers electrical isolation as well as clocking the data. HumanMedia's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
