Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter woes
MadScientist wrote: In their favour, I will say that Ripcaster, when forced into a course of action, act very efficiently. However, I’m singularly unimpressed with their after sales service. and yet you reward them by allowing the to keep the sale, instead of demanding your money back? I hope I would have been sterner; still, the temptation to just get a working unit quickly must have been strong :) cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter woes
bhaagensen wrote: MadScientist;423299 Wrote: Draw you owns conclusions from that! What a way to treat a customer who has spent £1000 on a product. Interesting story since they so clearly messed up. Ripcaster seems to have a good reputation. not anymore :) ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
ralphpnj wrote: You're right, if nothing short of a full blown ABX will make you happy then don't spend the money. However, just for the record, what does your audio system consist of right now? Are you using the analog outputs of the SBR or the digital outputs into an external DAC or receiver? There are several other ways to improve the sound of your existing audio system besides upgrading to a Transporter and many of them may cost less than a Transporter. indeed, and probably it's a bad example in my case. I'm takign the analogue output of the SBR into Quad pre/power amps, and thence to Quad bookshelf speakers, which is the best I can fit in my crowded office, which itself doesn't have ideal acoustics. no doubt. I'm also considering getting a headphone amp and some nice cans, perhaps Beyer. cheers, c. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
Phil Leigh wrote: I'm takign the analogue output of the SBR into Quad pre/power amps, and thence to Quad bookshelf speakers, which is the best I can fit in my crowded office, which itself doesn't have ideal acoustics. no doubt. I'm also considering getting a headphone amp and some nice cans, perhaps Beyer. Which Quad pre/power? 34/606, into 21L speakers. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
ralphpnj wrote: You might want to consider one the combination headphone amp and DAC interesting, thanks... ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
thanks CatBus, Better than that--I can point you to the samples themselves. But first--you weren't clear which you wanted...do you want the 320k MP3 that's indistinguishable from RedBook or the 320k MP3 that's easily distinguished from RedBook. It's a kinda important difference. Looks like I misunderstood; I got the wrong impression that there were claims that some people could routinely tell the difference between 320k MP3, and lossless, for a random selection of tracks. That was what I was really struggling to believe. That one can find - or create - pathological tracks doesn't surprise me at all. As you say, the important question is how much of your collection is impacted by this. For me, it's probably moot, as I struggle to tell the difference between even sub-200k MP3 and lossless. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
Teus de Jong wrote: Lets make a comparison here. If someone has read Umberto Eco's novel 'The name of the rose', the impact of this novel will totally depend on the background knowledge of this person. The beautiful thing about this novel is that you don't need any background knowledge to appreciate the book. no, but you certainly need some patience and perseverance; I find it hard-going, albeit rewarding. warning: don't expect the book of the film :) cheers, c. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
to me, it comes down to a simple issue of justifying cost. I hear that the Transporter might be a very good upgrade from my SBR. And it looks great. And I can have my beloved old-fashioned analogue VU*, and still have text info. Marvelous! :) But it costs over a thousand quid, which is a huge amount of money, to me. I don't trust myself at all: if I buy it, I might sit there and think: goodness, this is so much better than before. But I know I am likely to be easily swayed by these extraneous things, especially after a few gins, so I'd like to know that I really am hearing an improvement. That *requires* that I do proper ABX testing: if I can tell the difference, I can then decide whether it's worth it (to me), to spend the money acheiving it. If I can't tell the difference, I won't buy it. I don't believe anything other than ABX testing can answer this question, for me. I did a similar test when deciding to move from my prosumer compact digital camera to a full-blown digital SLR. It cost much more than the Transporter, but I found I could take much better (to me) pictures with it, so I'm very happy. So, why not just buy myself the Transporter, and believe it's better, even if I'm fooling myself? If I believe it, what's the problem? It's simple: I can't really afford to do that. I would be better off spending the money on better speakers (well, that's true anyway). Or gin. cheers, calum. * - I grew up watching these meters on high-class audio, and I wish I had them now, despite them being useless (to me). ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
thanks for the recommendations Ralph, I'll look those that Eco, and some Pynchon. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The Blind Testing Controversy
CatBus wrote: darrenyeats;411499 Wrote: Is that true? I thought I'd read about some blind tests where people could distinguish between MP3 320 and red book? It depends on the sample. There really are tracks have not yet been distinguished with any certainty from RedBook at 320k, and there really are tracks that are easily distinguished with high confidence. I've seen this mentioned a number of times. To me, it's extremely hard to understand how it can be true; but that's probably because of my ears. Does anyone have a pointer to these experiments, so we can read about them first-hand? cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Wired vs. Wireless
Goodsounds wrote: ralphpnj;410074 Wrote: I consider the interference caused by microwave ovens to be one of SqueezeBox's dirty little secrets. You must be saying that Slim/Logitech is responsible for your microwave leaking radiation? Hmmm, mine doesn't, maybe you need a new one (and not just to protect your music) Mine does, and I wondered about that too. It takes out various laptops, too... ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A/B SB3 vs Transporter
Quad wrote: meter is needed. Would you really consider blind-testing scotch single malt vs. bourbon? ;-) If you're ever in the area, let me know and we can find out :) ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
JezA wrote: darren, if the only way to make valid judgements about a musical experience is with a double-blind test, how can you make a judgement about a live concert? we're not talking about judgements of a single event - I believe - we're talking about comparing two events. you could, of course, compare two concerts, perhaps on separate nights. But it is unlikely the results of that comparison would tell you much about the technical side of the audio being produced. It's well documented that expectation bias can fool the ear/brain into hearing differences that aren't there (or vice versa). That's where a blind test is useful, in producing reproducible, unbiased, results. that is irrelevant, if you're happy with the sound you're getting, of course, no question. but some people like to find out: is it really worth paying out an extra X amount? Will it really make a difference? For those people, the results of a double-blind test gives some assurance that other tests simply cannot. As an aside, we read a recent article in the hi-fi press, extolling the virtues of a particular component. The lavish results were presented to a set of friends: these included all sorts of outlandish claims as to soundstage, timing, transparency etc, etc, and the friends were asked to guess the components under test. No-one could, but tt turned out to be analogue phono cables, connecting a portable mp3 player to an amp, or powered speakers. Needless to say, the test was fully sighted, and the high-priced cable won the test. Of course, it might well be the best cable, but the test is totally unreliable, so we're none the wiser. To my mind, designing a piece of electronic kit to achieve the quoted results would be a non-trivial task. Designing a piece of wire to do the same would be impressive indeed... :) cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
that's a great analogy, Darren :) I suppose I could do a blind test versus my usual supermarket Yorkshire tea but I haven't got round to it, I'm just enjoying my tea. :) Given these caveats, I can't really state anything more than a personal preference. The problem would come if I tried to make an absolute judgment about it. that's my problem with some of these discussions: we see quite a lot of these absolute statements. I'm not experienced enough in these matters, and so I'm looking towards two things to help me follow: - scientific explanation - blind testing but often it's hard to get either :( cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
JezA wrote: cups of tea. If I'm interested, I'll try the teas myself, and draw my own conclusions. What else can you do? exactly; but where that final test might result in spending a lot of money, I'd like to know that I'm not fooling *myself* into thinking that it really does sound better (because it costs more, or is a bit louder, or looks more impressive, etc, etc). That's where the blind testing is useful. Of course, one might argue that if the end result is the tea tastes better, then who cares whether I'm fooling myself? :) cheers, c. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
Wombat wrote: He obvioulsy has a decreased noise spectrum at the exit of his DAC with better mains supply. the differences here seems to be down at the -140dBV level. Are we seriously expecting to be able to hear changes at this level? cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
Wombat wrote: Well the consructor himself says: Soundwise there is also a more 'black' background. It amazes me how there seems to be always room for improvement, a little darker background, one more veil removed. Some songs seem to last a little longer because you can hear just a little bit more in the beginning and at the end. yup, I read that, thanks. Discussing this here leads to nothing. I was asking whether it's theoretically possible to hear noise at that low level. Of course, it depends on the reference level, but even so... seems like a reasonable question. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
this is most interesting... What I'm not seeing is the link between the small levels of DC noise apparently present, and audible differences to the music. And especially differences described in terms other than increased audible noise (i.e. reduced SNR). Is there any evidence around this area? Blind tests, or even ABX? Presumably the companies selling conditioners ought to be pointing to these results? thanks much. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
omega wrote: I Have tried with a true ONLine UPS from APC APC SMART-UPS RT I thought that could be a shepher solution than PS audio Powerplant and vs Products. But the APC SMART-UPS RT in my system only make things worse. Sounded noisy and added harmonics to the mains frequency. I wonder if that model supplies power normally from the battery, or whether the battery is only there for backup? It seems to me that a simple battery really ought to be the cleanest source of power, and the cheapest. Has anyone tried this, for low-power sources, at least? cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
Kuro wrote: cdmackay;404725 Wrote: I wonder if that model supplies power normally from the battery, or whether the battery is only there for backup? It seems to me that a simple battery really ought to be the cleanest source of power, and the cheapest. Has anyone tried this, for low-power But APC does not make audio equipment. They only need to generate a useable AC for your computer equipment. So how clean the AC waveform can APC generate from the battery is anybody's guess. Very easy to measure though, one would imagine. APC do claim to do power conditioning on the output, I note. I'm struggling to see why AC generated from a battery, with no other loads, would have much noise associated with it. As to my battery suggestion, for DC, I do realise that's no good for e.g. Transporter, but it would be fine for SBR. Although it's been noted elsewhere that power supply changing has little to no effect on an SBR. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
thanks for the link, Kuro. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
how would a UPS - one that provides full-time power via its batteries - perform in comparison? Or even just a battery, come that? e.g. house alarm type. That might seem a much cheaper way of providing clean 5V (or 9V) DC? cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] analogue attenuator recommendation
thanks both, I didn't realise modern sources had such high outputs. I believe my Quad pre-amp has the option to install resistor flags - if Quad still sell them - for customisable attenuation, so that's yet another option. thanks again. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] analogue attenuator recommendation
Is it me, or is the SBR's analogue output level very high? According to the specs, it's 4.8Vpp, which I make to be about 1.7Vrms. My aging pre-amp's spare input's sensitivity is 300mV, and I thought that was fairly standard (or even high, the tuner input is 100mV). So why is the SBR so high? Do some modern devices have input sens in that range? On a related note: does anyone know the source impedance of the SBR? It's not in the specs... I've read that the SB3 is 220Ω, but the SBR? thanks much, cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] analogue attenuator recommendation
I'm not sure that most people recommend the Rothwells... but even so, the Endler attenuators are significantly better sounding to me. No idea why, as it seems they should be similar (just attenuators after all) - just going with the ears on this one! :) thanks. on a related note: if they're just simple voltage dividers, what's to stop me making up my own, and saving a few quid? presumably as long as I buy reasonable quality matched resistors, and good gold-plated plugs, I could build a simple one much cheaper than Rothwells GBP 40 a pair? cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] analogue attenuator recommendation
thanks very much, all... ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power supply / conditioning
Kuro;403381 Wrote: You do not hear noise per se in your music, the noise manifests itself as loss in micro dynamics, less sound stage depth, loss of bass tautness, loss in harmonics and increased high frequency content in the music. I always struggle somewhat with these descriptions, sorry :( what is micro dynamics? and bass tautness? I used to be a bass player, but I'm not sure how taut I was :) and loss in harmonics and increased high frequency content sounds a little bit contradictory? thanks much. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] analogue attenuator recommendation
hi all, would anyone be able to please recommend a good attenuator for the analogue output of my SBR? At the moment it's feeding into a Quad pre/power, and small Quad speakers. With the SBR's digital vol locked on max, it's a little loud even on the lowest Quad pre volume setting (which are discrete). I could lower the SBR vol, of course, but I recall reading that it was better to do it on the analogue side. Are there any recommended ones out there, please? thanks much indeed. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Potential sources of error and lossless files
SuperQ wrote: No bit errors will be introduced between your PC and your squeezebox. There are several layers of checksums that prevent this. Both TCP/IP and wifi/ethernet (they're basically the same thing bit-wise) have internal checksums. but they're very weak; it's not impossible to find bad network hardware introducing bit errors in patterns that get past TCP checksums. I've seen it myself. In addition to this FLAC has built-in checksums. and I think that's much better protection, fortunately. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] analogue attenuator recommendation
thanks much, Dave. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Potential sources of error and lossless files
SuperQ wrote: Yes, I know all about getting bit errors across the network. TCP checksums and ethernet frame CRCs can be corrupted in subtle ways especially when your switch is doing vlan tranlations and the frame checksums are being recalculated. This type of thing doesn't happen on home user networks so it's not really as big a deal. We're also talking about very very low bandwidth rates of only a megabit or so. I've seen it for simple TCP traffic (e.g. NFS) across a single simple IP router; but at likely considerably higher bandwidth, agreed. The point of all this is the % chance of this happening in a an audio stream AND not being completely obvious as garbled/static frames is so low it's not worth talking about. Un-caught corruption in the IP/packet level will likely cause completely obvious garbled audio output. agreed. If anything, the far bigger problem comes from copying your ripped files across the network from one store to another, and getting (silent) corruption en route. That can be avoided by using a copy mechanism incorporating its own, more secure, checksum/digest, e.g. SSL, SSH, encrypted NFS, etc. And of course this applies to all types of files. but I'm getting a bit OT, apologies. cheers, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Getting the Best out of New SB3
Phil Leigh wrote: Yes - I suggest you keep the money in your wallet :) Unless your stock supply is faulty there is no point in changing it for a plugplay replacement to achieve better sound quality IMO. thanks Phil :) ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] LPS
hi all, Are there any recommendations for a sensibly priced Linear Power Supply for my new SB Receiver, please? I'm currently running it through Quad 34/606, if that's relevant. Will I even notice a difference? anything else I should be considering...? thanks very much indeed. best regards, calum. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
