Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
This thread had me experimenting again. It still baffles me that the audible differences between digital cables can be so large; between my Touch and Rega DAC I used to use an Oyaide 510. Beautiful well made cable, pure silver, multiple shields, and it sounded great with former dacs. However, with the Rega it sounded dull (something I associate with jitter) and was clearly beaten on all fronts by my current Canare Digiflex at 1/8 of the price. I used to think jitter and noise was all there was problemwise in digital cables, and could not understand why two well-made cables should sound so different, and why with one dac one cable sounded better, and with another dac another cable sounds better. Untill I read John Swensons post in this thread about impedance matching. Then I finally got an explanation of this synergy stuff. Thanks. Then I decided to buy a vdHul optocoupler. Differences between the toslink and the Canare coax were small, the coax sounding warmer and more euphonic with slightly more middbass weight and a cleaner treble. Interestingly, if I left the Canare in place while using the toslink, The toslink gained some of that coax midbass warmth, hinting that this was an artefact created by noise over the electrical connection between source and dac. I prefer the Canare, but have to admit perhaps the toslink connection is purer. Otoh, I also found this: http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/Toslink_Coax.htm Hinting that coax has less jitter then toslink, which, if audible, could also explain the smoother treble of the coax. -- Dura Dura's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39937 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Toslink's presentation is just very (for lack of a better word) -clean-. IMO it's the lack of an electronic connection, that makes for the blacker background, smoother treble, more solidified bass. -- steveinaz - transport: squeezebox touch / ci audio ps - dac: benchmark dac/pre - linestage: placette passive - power amplifier: parasound hca-1500a - speakers: fritz speakers carbon 7 monitor - cables: kimber hero/8tc v.2, dh labs d-75 steveinaz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34707 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I tried a Blue Jeans 3 foot plastic optical cable and came up thoroughly unimpressed. Both connectors were sloppy fitting. Then I tried one of those Amazon Cables to Go 3ft glass cable. Great snug fitting connectors and the sound was a big improvement over the BJ cable. I am usually highly skeptical of cables but was surprised by the result. My coax cables are louder and the bass seems a bit looser and boomier. The coax is monoprice 16 gauge. I recently dissected one to convert to an XLR cable, and I'll have to sat it's a pretty well constructed cable with a good copper core. Anyway, I'm sold on glass toslink. It's not a big deal to me, it just works better with what I have. I'm sure there is better, but there always is. -- Stilly77 WHS 2011 server with LMS 7.7.1 ASUS RT-N16 router (Tomato) AP ASUS RT-N12 wireless bridge (DD-WRT) 15ft Cat 6 unshielded SBT (TT3.0 with sgbk mod) 3ft glass optical interconnect Emotiva XDA-1 DAC XLR to rca interconnect Little Dot Mk III (all Russian tubes) Beyerdynamic DT-990 600 ohm headphones Stilly77's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43680 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;670941 Wrote: Interesting. Mind you, do you know your findings would be a tremendous disappointment to the designers of your Dac, who are quite insistent that it is entirely immune to jitter. Yeah, Benchmark also claims transports won't sound different--they're wrong on that count too. -- steveinaz - transport: squeezebox touch / ci audio ps - dac: benchmark dac/pre - linestage: placette passive - power amplifier: parasound hca-1500a - speakers: fritz speakers carbon 7 monitor - cables: kimber hero/8tc v.2, dh labs d-75 steveinaz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34707 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I experienced a huge difference in the sound. I am not sure if it's the quality of the optical being lousy or the coax being extremely good but myself and two sons all three unanimously agree that the optical sounded flatter and very uninviting. It was years ago and havent experimented with it since. -- artintampa artintampa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49578 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
steveinaz;673458 Wrote: snip I think a lot of the negativity around Toslink is unfounded. I find it to be quite nice, especially the smoothness in treble. It IS very neutral however---almost sterile.snip I fully agree that the conventional negative view of Toslink is generally unfounded. In my experience, as in yours, switching from coax to Toslink has resulted in a more neutral presentation, which I much prefer over an euphonic one. To my ears, it does not sound sterile, but I'm sure it can be with some other equipment and in some rooms. If one would like to keep the Toslink neutrality but avoid any perceived sterility, I might suggest trying different interconnects on the analog end of things and playing around with speakers positioning and subwoofer (if any) settings. Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge - Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch (digital out) - Cambridge Azur 840C DAC - Adcom GFP-750 preamp - Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp - Martin Logan SL3 speakers DSpeaker Antimode 8033 equalizer - REL T1 Subwoofer BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out) - Little Dot Mk III amp - AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch - Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
guidof;673467 Wrote: If one would like to keep the Toslink neutrality but avoid any perceived sterility, I might suggest trying different interconnects on the analog end of things and playing around with speakers positioning and subwoofer (if any) settings. Guido F. Absolutely, fine tuning could be accomplished with cables, or various other means. If I didn't have to use the 1 toslink I have for my HDTV receiver, I'd be using it for my transport. I like the interface, especially with Sonic Wave quartz glass fiber. -- steveinaz - transport: squeezebox touch / ci audio ps - dac: benchmark dac/pre - linestage: placette passive - power amplifier: parasound hca-1500a - speakers: fritz speakers carbon 7 monitor - cables: kimber hero/8tc v.2, dh labs d-75 steveinaz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34707 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
This might help; though this stuff can be very subjective. My CEC CD Player has toslink/coax/AES-EBU over XLR outputs available, so i decided to do a comparion of the 3, running into a Benchmark DAC1. I used each interface for 2 months, and here is what I found: 1. AES/EBU: Rendered the warmest presenation. (Signal Cable digital XLR) 2. Toslink: The most neutral; almost too sterile--although very tight bass and smooth treble. (Sonic Wave quartz glass 1mtr Toslink) 3. Coaxial: Somewhere between AES/EBU and Toslink; not quite the warmth of XLR, but more sparkle/depth than Toslink. (DH Labs D-75) Take it for what it's worth... -- steveinaz - transport: squeezebox touch - dac: benchmark dac/pre - linestage: placette passive - power amplifier: parasound hca-1500a - speakers: fritz speakers carbon 7 monitor - cables: kimber hero/8tc v.2, dh labs d-75 steveinaz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34707 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
steveinaz;670899 Wrote: This might help; though this stuff can be very subjective. My CEC CD Player has toslink/coax/AES-EBU over XLR outputs available, so i decided to do a comparion of the 3, running into a Benchmark DAC1. I used each interface for 2 months, and here is what I found: 1. AES/EBU: Rendered the warmest, most analog-like presenation. (Signal Cable digital XLR) 2. Toslink: The most neutral; almost boring--although very tight bass and smooth treble. (Sonic Wave quartz glass 1mtr Toslink) 3. Coaxial: Somewhere between AES/EBU and Toslink; not quite the warmth of XLR, but more sparkle/depth than Toslink. (DH Labs D-75) Take it for what it's worth...keep in mind the differences were very subtle.Interesting. Mind you, do you know your findings would be a tremendous disappointment to the designers of your Dac, who are quite insistent that it is entirely immune to jitter. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I had, for many years, connected to my DAC with a Canare-sourced coax by Have. It sounded fine, I thought. But reading this thread got me to think of trying a Toslink connection. Being cheap, I first tried an Amazon Basic optical cable(about $8). I didn't expect much, but I was astonished at how different my main system (see below) sounded with this cheapy. More detail, better definition of individual instrument lines and, especially, lots more air around individual instruments and voices. A very seductive presentation, marred, unfortunately, by a hardening of timbres and overall rough character of the sound. But now I was on a roll. Hoping to correct the Amazon's cable weaknesses and preserve its virtues, I next tried an X-series coax by Emotiva ($19), on the strength of the excellent experience I've had with the balanced version of these interconnects. It sounded a lot more refined than my Have, but not as open and airy as the Amazon optical. Maybe an Emotiva Toslink ($16) would do the trick? I tried that. Close, but no cigar. At this point, I was determined to find a better Toslik. I turned to Lifatec. They specialize in fiber optics, including medical applications. I ordered 3 feet of their Silflex Glass cable ($70), on a 30 day return, full refund basis. This Toslink did it! Now I got the accurate timbres and tonal balance of the Emotiva coax, but also the infectious three-dimensionality and air of the Amazon Toslink. In my system, the overall sound signature of the Silflex Toslink and Emotiva coax are essentially the same, but the presentation through the Silflex is clearly closer to hearing live musicians perform in a real space. Definitely only my personal and subjective experience. May or may not be transferable to other equipment, ears, and musical tastes. I only mention it to encourage others to experiment with digital interconnects, especially among reasonably priced ones. Many thanks to the posters on this thread, who first piqued my curiosity in this area. Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge - Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch (digital out) - Cambridge Azur 840C DAC - Adcom GFP-750 preamp - Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp - Martin Logan SL3 speakers DSpeaker Antimode 8033 equalizer - REL T1 Subwoofer BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out) - Little Dot Mk III amp - AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch - Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
The TOSLINK will not interfere with the coax BUT the coax provides an electrical connection and the whole benefit of TOSLINK is to remove that connection and provide galvanic isolation! So... Only connect one cable. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
castalla;661484 Wrote: - quote If you can get one for £20-£30 I'd say it was worth it. - unquote Worth it, in what way ? Did you do a blind test with a 5 quid cable? What I meant was: for that money it is worth - in my opinion - picking one up and trying it for yourself to see if it makes an improvement in your system... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Phil Leigh;661835 Wrote: The TOSLINK will not interfere with the coax BUT the coax provides an electrical connection and the whole benefit of TOSLINK is to remove that connection and provide galvanic isolation! So... Only connect one cable. Thanks, Phil. Much appreciated. -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Touch (wired) via spdif coax Rega DAC LFD LE IV amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.6.1 r33149 running on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 1.9. Touch w/Hardware V.5. Touch: FW 7.6.1 r9486. Duet: FW 77 r9486. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Phil Leigh;661835 Wrote: The TOSLINK will not interfere with the coax BUT the coax provides an electrical connection and the whole benefit of TOSLINK is to remove that connection and provide galvanic isolation! So... Only connect one cable. Hope this is only when connecting from an output device like Touch. Connecting multiple digital inputs to a external DAC should not be affected??? -- lake_eleven lake_eleven's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48979 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
The coax inputs (and USB input) of the Rega DAC are also isolated (at least 'according to Rega' (http://www.rega.co.uk/html/DAC.htm)) so it shouldn't be a problem. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch (sans caps) + duet + boom + radio (portable) / dd-wrt @ linksys wrt54g/160n/320n/e2k/e3k + homeplugs c. / sbs 7.6.x on w7(x86) w/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I've been using coax from Blue Jeans cable to connect my Touch to my dac. Got curious after following this thread and ordered one of Blue Jeans' optical cables (about US $13 for a 4 foot length). After it arrived yesterday, plugged it in and did about 30 min of a/b listening (not blind---my able assistant, Mrs. Rgro, was out for the evening) on all different kinds of music---both 44.1 and 88/96 recordings. I could not hear any discernable difference between the two cables in my system. I may take Darren's irrational angst approach and continue to use the optical just because. -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Touch (wired) via spdif coax Rega DAC LFD LE IV amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.6.1 r33149 running on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 1.9. Touch w/Hardware V.5. Touch: FW 7.6.1 r9486. Duet: FW 77 r9486. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
rgro;661682 Wrote: I've been using coax from Blue Jeans cable to connect my Touch to my dac. Got curious after following this thread and ordered one of Blue Jeans' optical cables (about US $13 for a 4 foot length). After it arrived yesterday, plugged it in and did about 30 min of a/b listening (not blind---my able assistant, Mrs. Rgro, was out for the evening) on all different kinds of music---both 44.1 and 88/96 recordings. I could not hear any discernable difference between the two cables in my system. It would appear that you either a) have a competently designed DAC and a refreshing lack of neurotic audiophile tendency to imagine differences; or b) are hopelessly cloth eared; or c) have by coincidence chanced upon 2 cables which just happen to sound exactly the same. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;661722 Wrote: It would appear that you either a) have a competently designed DAC and a refreshing lack of neurotic audiophile tendency to imagine differences; or b) are hopelessly cloth eared; or c) have by coincidence chanced upon 2 cables which just happen to sound exactly the same. can I have menu a) with extra fries on the side :) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;661722 Wrote: It would appear that you either a) have a competently designed DAC and a refreshing lack of neurotic audiophile tendency to imagine differences; or b) are hopelessly cloth eared; or c) have by coincidence chanced upon 2 cables which just happen to sound exactly the same. Hehehdefinitely not b (Mrs. rgro claims that, even at my slightly advanced age, I have bat ears). Could indeed be c, but my ego would prefer a. Roy Gandy's outfit is, as I understand, a pretty well respected design house. -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Touch (wired) via spdif coax Rega DAC LFD LE IV amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.6.1 r33149 running on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 1.9. Touch w/Hardware V.5. Touch: FW 7.6.1 r9486. Duet: FW 77 r9486. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
For the true gurus out there: I'm just curious.is there any penalty or downside to leaving both coax and optical connected---understanding that they're both simultaneously activeto the dac from the Touch, or is preferred (in the electrical/acoustical sense) to disconnect whichever cable is not being used? -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Touch (wired) via spdif coax Rega DAC LFD LE IV amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.6.1 r33149 running on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 1.9. Touch w/Hardware V.5. Touch: FW 7.6.1 r9486. Duet: FW 77 r9486. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
It may confuse an autosensing dac ( and you ) which input are you listening to :) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Mnyb;661822 Wrote: It may confuse an autosensing dac ( and you ) which input are you listening to :) I am quite easily confused, but the dac is not [autosensing]!! The Rega's inputs are manually selected -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Touch (wired) via spdif coax Rega DAC LFD LE IV amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.6.1 r33149 running on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 1.9. Touch w/Hardware V.5. Touch: FW 7.6.1 r9486. Duet: FW 77 r9486. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Here's an interesting post from Sean Adams, back in 2005, on the subject: seanadams;39192 Wrote: ...Personally I find it unfortunate that S/PDIF was ever specified to run over coax copper in the first place. There are some who claim it's better than fiber for various reasons, but all empirical data says that optical S/PDIF is FAR more reliable, works over longer distances, and delivers measurably lower jitter at the receiver. It also inherently isolates ground offset, low frequency and EMI noise between devices. The only good reason to use coax is if you don't have an optical cable or an optical input available, which is primarily why we have the connector there... -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I use optical with my Benchmark HDR - because of probably irrational fear of EMI. But I hear no difference between coax and optical when I compare A/B. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Coax remains popular In Audiofool land because it's much easier to make and sell a $1,000 coax cable... That doesn't stop Nordost selling a $33K toslink cable. I wonder how many of those they have ever sold - and who bought them? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I've used coax from my receiver ever since I bought my V-DAC because everyone seems to say that coax is better than optical. I recently splashed out £5 on a Toslink cable from Amazon just to try it and not expecting to hear any difference, but I was pleasantly surprised to say the least when I found (I think) that a slight hard edge to the sound which was more noticeable at higher volumes had disappeared resulting in a much more natural and less fatiguing sound. I have no idea why this should be true. Maybe my 0.75m coax was too short :-) -- slartibartfast slartibartfast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
slartibartfast;661424 Wrote: I've used coax from my receiver ever since I bought my V-DAC because everyone seems to say that coax is better than optical. I recently splashed out £5 on a Toslink cable from Amazon just to try it and not expecting to hear any difference, but I was pleasantly surprised to say the least when I found (I think) that a slight hard edge to the sound which was more noticeable at higher volumes had disappeared resulting in a much more natural and less fatiguing sound. I have no idea why this should be true. Maybe my 0.75m coax was too short :-) Could be - if you are using coax, 1.5m is the generally-accepted minimum length :-) There is no length issue with good quality Toslink cables. Good Quality does not mean it costs thousands... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Phil Leigh;661442 Wrote: Could be - if you are using coax, 1.5m is the generally-accepted minimum length :-) There is no length issue with good quality Toslink cables. Good Quality does not mean it costs thousands... Hi Phil, Out of interest, what makes of Toslink cable would be considered good quality without costing 'thousands'. This is a genuine question - not a troll. I have only ever bought £5 - £10 cables and don't want to find out the hard way that more expensive cables are no better :) Bob -- bobertuk 1 x Touch - SC 7.6.0 - SSOTS v4.91 1 x Radio 1 x Boom Lavry DA-10 DAC QNAP TS-509 3.3.6 build 1110T Starfish Pre-amp : Based on NAIM Heavily modified NAIM NAP 250 Power-amp Behringer DEQ2496 Linn Isobarik DMS bobertuk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
bobertuk;661452 Wrote: Hi Phil, Out of interest, what makes of Toslink cable would be considered good quality without costing 'thousands'. This is a genuine question - not a troll. I have only ever bought £5 - £10 cables and don't want to find out the hard way that more expensive cables are no better :) Bob Bob, I'm no expert but I've found that Van Den Hul Optocoupler Mkii is available at reasonable prices in the UK - I think it is circa £65 new but I bought a perfect used one from eBay recently for £20 inc postage - bargain! If you can get one for £20-£30 I'd say it was worth it. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Phil Leigh;661455 Wrote: Bob, I'm no expert but I've found that Van Den Hul Optocoupler Mkii is available at reasonable prices in the UK - I think it is circa £65 new but I bought a perfect used one from eBay recently for £20 inc postage - bargain! If you can get one for £20-£30 I'd say it was worth it. Thanks Phil, I'll give one a go if I can find a used one. Bob -- bobertuk 1 x Touch - SC 7.6.0 - SSOTS v4.91 1 x Radio 1 x Boom Lavry DA-10 DAC QNAP TS-509 3.3.6 build 1110T Starfish Pre-amp : Based on NAIM Heavily modified NAIM NAP 250 Power-amp Behringer DEQ2496 Linn Isobarik DMS bobertuk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I'm a little late to the party on this discussion, and in my present set up have no need to let my cold, naked bits stray outside of my Transporter.With that said, I HAVE in the past used both Optical AES/EBU connections between the transporter and a DEQ 2496. * Amazon Basic Toslink. About $8.00/pr * Canare 110ohm AES/EBU cable. About $50.00 For the life of me, I could not RELIABLY detect a difference between the different connections. In some instances, if there was to be any preference...it came down in favor of the TOSlink. A very NON-Audiophile observation in light of the exceedingly low price of the Amazon product On the length issueI've always been of the mind that longer is better, but the discussion would quickly stray from Audio cables. :):):) IMO...Use what you like. -- Curt962 Transporter...TouchBoom...Audiolense XO Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
- quote If you can get one for £20-£30 I'd say it was worth it. - unquote Worth it, in what way ? Did you do a blind test with a 5 quid cable? -- castalla 1 Touch - cheap unbranded optical cable - old Sony Microsystem - Aqustics Q10 speakers - 2 duff ears - purrfekt! castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
There are two major camps with regard to digital audio optical cables, single fiber and multi-fiber. Why the difference? The traditional optical cable uses a large (at least in regards to a wavelength of light) single plastic fiber. This means that light rays entering the fiber at different angles can take different path lengths to get from one end to the other. With such a large fiber light rays take a zig-zag path down the fiber. One that enters parallel to the fiber will have few zigs and zags and a ray thet enters at an angle will have more zigs and zags. These add up over the fiber length producung rays that take different time delays through the fiber. This causes edge smearing at the receiver. An attempt to fix this was the multi-fiber bundle. In this apprach each fiber is vastly thinner so its internal dimensions are on the order of a wavelength of light, thus there is no zig-zag, the delay time through the fiber does not depend on the angle of incidence. So why the bundle, why not just one? The optics at the transmitter and receiver are designed to send the light into a certain sized fiber (the large plastic one), if you use just a single very thin fiber almost none of the light will actually hit it and there will not be enough light at the receiver to trigger the light sensor. So they make a bundle of thin fibers that is the same size as the single large one. There is also the material used, the original spec was plastic, because it bends. Glass at that thickness would break not bend. BUT glass at very small diameters IS flexible. Traditionally the very thin fibers were made from glass because it was easier to make thin glass than thin plastic. Now they have figured out how to make plastic fibers thin as well as glass. So now you can find single large plastic, multiple thin glass or multiple thin plastic. The plastic and glass cables DO have different optical properties, I'm not an expert on this but listening to a real expert I got the impressionthat that for the short links that we are using the plastic might be better. I have used a single plastic and multiple glass cables and found that the multiple glass ones almost always sound better than the single plastic. You can get them for $30 or so, so its not that big a deal to just go with that. I have not tried the plastic multi-fiber cables, some that have prefer it to the glass ones. The multi-fiber plastic cables are much harder to find and more expensive (but not hugely). Now as to differences between optical and coax, its a crap shoot. The common optical receiver modules are not all that great, they are fairly noisy and have very low bandwidth, both of which can significantly increase jitter on the recovered signal. Whether this is going to affect the jitter at the DAC chips depends very much on the receiver circuitry. Coax if done very well should be better, BUT very rarely is it done very well. The jitter at the reciver depends both on the inherant quality of the source transmitter (jitter, noise, risetime etc) AND on the reflections caused by impedance mismatch. The output impedance of source and the input impedance of receivers varies from about 35 ohms to about 120 ohms. There is no way to tell which is which, price or reputation is NOT an indicator of what its going to be, the units out there in the wild are all over the map. The result is that its a crap shoot as to what you get. If you get lucky and your source and receiver are close to each other (note it doesn't have to be both at the spec value, just that both match) your coax probably will sound better than optical, if they don't match the optical will probably sound better. The result is that in reality there is no way to tell which will sound better, try both and choose which sounds best. If you find that optical sound best then you might want to try different optical cables, in particular try a single plastic and a multi-fiber glass or plastic one. If both coax and optical sound identical with basic cables you can try different cables and you might find that now one sounds slightly better than the other. My experience is that digital cables DO sound different, but that price has nothing to do with it. I have tried expensive cables and they don't sound any better than some of the inexpensive ones. Others have found different. My best sounding coax cable is one that came free with a DAC many years ago. Again it probably has more to do with matching the impedance of your equipment rather than any inherant goodness of the cable. For example if you get lucky and you have a source and receiver that are both near 90 ohms a 90 ohm cable is going to sound better than a 75 ohm cable. So try a bunch of stuff and determine what sounds best to you. If you can try expensive cables on loan or a friend's etc go for it, it might be better than anything else, in which case you have to decide if its worth it. But if you try enough you will probably find a
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
The receivers add a fair amount of jitter on their own. Either the photodetectors or the electronics used to amplify them are slow and noisy, the signal takes a long time to rise and there is a fair amount of noise on that ramp, which means the uncertainty in the threshold can cover a fair amount of time causing jitter. There are ways to make this much better, the best of which is to have a multistage amplify and clamp system, this can detect the optical edge with very little added jitter, but costs way more than the audio receivers they currently sell. Toshiba certainly knows how to do this, some of their optical systems do it very well, but they don't offer that technology with the connector used for audio. 7 years ago I built a DAC with a TOSLINK receiver that has significantly lower jitter than what you can buy today, but Toshiba decided not to make those any more. (Probably because very few people were willing to pay the extra cost, it was something like 4X the price) Yes you CAN get extremely good performance on optical interconnects, the ones I deal with at work have about 10ps of jitter, but they cost several hundred dollars per channel, its hard to get that level of performance for 25 cents, which is about what the electronics in an audio TOSLINK receiver costs. If you boost it up to $2 worth of electronics you can get much better performance, but now the receiver costs $12 instead of $1.50. It seems there just is not a big enough market for $12 TOSLINK receivers. What I don't get is how come some enterprising people haven't started selling the improved optical receivers with the $2 of electronics for $100 a piece to the audiophile market. For people that drop $500 on a cable the extra $100 for a really good optical receiver should be a slam dunk. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
It's an intriguing question. The problem seems to be that the idea has been implanted in audiophiles that toslink is inherently inferior. This is curious because the same audiophiles are happy to spend a fortune on cables and transports designed to minimise problems of noise and impedance which toddling solves at a stroke. As a matter of interest John do you know whether the better sort of receiver is available NOS? Also what do dcs, esoteric , wadia etc use for their toslink receivers. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Yes the fiber can handle huge bandwidths, but there are two major issues with common TOSLINK. One is the fiber itself, its a multimode fiber, its physically much larger than a wavelength of the light used. The result is that light entering the fiber at different angles can take different path lengths (hence time delay through the fiber), the result is that edges get stretched out in time. There are some interesting attempts at fixing this, the most common one today uses a bundle of single mode fibers, so whichever fiber the light ray hits, it takes the same amount of time through the bundle. The other is the optical - electrical converters. 99.9% of the industry just uses off the shelf TOSLINK transmitters and receivers. For whatever reasons these are not very good parts, particularly the receivers. They are slow and noisy. They have actually gotten worse over time. Toshiba used to make some pretty good ones but they stopped making them several years ago. (I think HDMI has pretty much killed off the optical market and Toshiba couldn't make any money off of higher end modules). It is certainly possible to do MUCH better than the TOSLINK parts, BUT none of those have the same connector. Quite a while back there was an attempt to do this with the ST optical interface, but it never really caught on. Until someone starts making a GOOD optical receiver with the same TOSLINK connector not much is going to change. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
TOSLINK transmitters are LEDs... Receivers are photodiodes. Modern TOSLINK interfaces can easily handles 16mbps which is plenty. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Fibre optic cables are able to transmit data at huge bandwidths without (as far as I am aware) huge issues, Yet there appears to be an audiophile consensus that coax sounds better than toslink. Can anyone explain why this might be. Therre is a tremendous amount of interest on this forum for software and firmware mods which are intended to improve the sound from a dac connected to a Touch. It is difficult to see what effect these mods can have other than through the transmission of electrical noise which would presumably not be passed via toslink. So why is it that toslink is supposed to sound worse than coax. The only explanations i can find are 1) the signal sent by toslink leads to data errors in the receiver (ie the receiver cannot accurately read the bits) or contains a large amount of interface jitter which the dac is unable to remove. Is this something inherent in the toslink medium or is it the fault of bad transmitters? 2) the operation of the optical/electrical conversion in the dac asversely affects the dac or analogue stages somehow -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;656162 Wrote: Fibre optic cables are able to transmit data at huge bandwidths without (as far as I am aware) huge issues, Yet there appears to be an audiophile consensus that coax sounds better than toslink. Can anyone explain why this might be. Therre is a tremendous amount of interest on this forum for software and firmware mods which are intended to improve the sound from a dac connected to a Touch. It is difficult to see what effect these mods can have other than through the transmission of electrical noise which would presumably not be passed via toslink. So why is it that toslink is supposed to sound worse than coax. The only possible explanations i can find are 1) the signal sent by toslink leads to data errors in the receiver (ie the receiver cannot accurately read the bits) or contains a large amount of interface jitter which the dac is unable to remove. Is this something inherent in the toslink medium or is it the fault of bad transmitters? 2) the operation of the optical/electrical conversion in the dac adversely affects the dac or analogue stages somehow Yes... My friend who owns a fibre company that supplies broadcasters finds this all hilarious... As do his customers... modern TOSLINK cables and connectors do not add interface jitter and can operate at high bandwiths. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;656162 Wrote: Fibre optic cables are able to transmit data at huge bandwidths without (as far as I am aware) huge issues, Yet there appears to be an audiophile consensus that coax sounds better than toslink. Can anyone explain why this might be. Therre is a tremendous amount of interest on this forum for software and firmware mods which are intended to improve the sound from a dac connected to a Touch. It is difficult to see what effect these mods can have other than through the transmission of electrical noise which would presumably not be passed via toslink. So why is it that toslink is supposed to sound worse than coax. The only possible explanations i can find are 1) the signal sent by toslink leads to data errors in the receiver (ie the receiver cannot accurately read the bits) or contains a large amount of interface jitter which the dac is unable to remove. Is this something inherent in the toslink medium or is it the fault of bad transmitters? 2) the operation of the optical/electrical conversion in the dac adversely affects the dac or analogue stages somehow The anecdotal speil around this has always been that the not so expensive opto transmitter and recievers used in toslink are not so fast , hence lower bandwith than the electrical interface and , so transition 1 0 migth not be as fast as an electrical interface. But that was 20 years ago, but these facts seems to stick in audiophile comunity . I have no example at hand, but did not the hifi rags measure jitter at the opto interface and found it worse on toslink in some cases ? And then it became the official truth for all toslink interfaces. On the other hand . This migth not be true anymore with modern toslink components, after all the bandwith for spdif is not really high and demanding. If it's still the case modern DAC's seems to twart this very effectively. So that the electrical isolation gives you more benefits than problems . I would not automatically dissmis the toslink as inferior anymore, i would try . the practical implementation might vary by each use case. It could be that toslink is the best for you and electrical is best for me ? given our different equipment. Or most likely none of could hear any difference at all in practical reality even if there is a measurable difference. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I find the whole interface jitter thing a bit puzzling unless it means that the receiver can't decode the bits in the signal. I really struggle to understand how the remaining problem of matching the long-term clock drift could defeat the ingenuity of an electrical engineer. That's the only thing standing in the way of reclocking using a source which is entirely independent of the transport clock and the S/PDIF signal. So now bits are read, data reclocked using decent oscillator, where's the problem? -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;656213 Wrote: *where's the problem?* probably somewhere between the ears ;) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
