[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
[EMAIL PROTECTED];137455 Wrote: Eh? What's that you're saying? Speak up a bit lad, and stop mumbling. And what's worse - I say WHAT'S WORSE - is you can't get proper steel needles any more either.. And then they amplified it, It was much LOUDER then. So you sharpened finer needles To make it soft again (A Song of Reproduction - check it out if you think that audiophilia didn't start until the 70s or 80s...) Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
You took the words right out of my keyboard. (Except that it's fibre not finer needles. Don't ask me why - I'm not that old - but it's here in black and white in front of me in The Songs of Michael Flanders and Donald Swann, Elm Tree Books and St George's Press, 1977 price £6.50, also contained in - I believe - the CD At the Drop of Another Hat). It should be compulsory listening to all those beginning to show the symptoms of the unfortunate condition of audiophilia, especially the short monologue in the middle. At least they'll have been warned what people outside the asylum will think of them. Sigh. And carry on regardless, no doubt. The ear can't hear as high as that, Still, I ought to please any passing bat With my high fidelity. On 20 Sep 2006, at 08:28, ceejay wrote: And then they amplified it, It was much LOUDER then. So you sharpened finer needles To make it soft again (A Song of Reproduction - check it out if you think that audiophilia didn't start until the 70s or 80s...) Ceejay ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Its actually in At the Drop of a Hat, not Another prompted by your post I just went and listened very carefully, and you're right! I have to say I prefer my version, but never mind... Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Thanks, Ceejay, yes, I couldn't remember which one it was in without digging up the box (which is currently at the very bottom of the "just digitised" pile somewhere in the deepest innermost recesses of my den) or else firing up, and taking an eternity to search through on, the Squeezebox, of course!The explanation of why fibre not finer needles is contained in this page (and elsewhere, of course) - instruction on how to make your own fibre needles for a phonograph:http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmachines/fibreneedle.htmlWhich explains all - or, at least, most. The line in the FS song would be a reference to the property of fibre phonographic needles that made them produce a quieter, softer sound than steel ones: "They're great for playing records without disturbing the entire household," the page says. But they also have a tendency to wear out before the end of a record, it warns. Which all makes me think that we're so, so lucky..On 20 Sep 2006, at 10:06, ceejay wrote:Its actually in "At the Drop of a Hat", not "Another" prompted byyour post I just went and listened very carefully, and you're right! Ihave to say I prefer my version, but never mind...Ceejay-- ceejayceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445___audiophiles mailing listaudiophiles@lists.slimdevices.comhttp://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Crucial phrase is to those in the trade! The information is extremely easy to find - just common knowledge, in fact - to those who still are, but I'm not sure that it is easy at all for those who are not. Perhaps it's not so surprising that audiophiles in the latter group seem to know so little about the former. And, as you imply, the demands on home studio stuff are nothing like those made by the standards of professional broadcasting or recording (and your image of musicians playing to themselves in home recording studios rather than gigging produces a reflex response of: It'll make them go blind, you know.) Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. Very handy. Perhaps at last I can now find out what software is as cheap, precise and fast as a block, some splicing tape and a well-wielded razor blade! On 18 Sep 2006, at 23:17, Pat Farrell wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't now find the information is that easy to acquire. Neither record companies nor broadcasters exactly encourage the public to mooch into a studio and play around. Any suggestions, Pat? Get subscribed to some trade rags. Mix is free to those in the trade, as is TapeOp. Sound-on-sound from the UK is the most valuable of those aimed a home-studio folks, of the magazines that I've read and had to pay for. I don't think much of most of the magazines for 'home recording' that are available at your local Borders. Most of the home-studio folks are not interested in high quality recordings, the owners all think that they will be the next band to become as rich as The Beatles. They would be a lot better off working gigs in bars and learning to make music, rather than worrying over which $300 microphone is 'best'. One fairly good website is gearslutz.com sometimes useful is http://www.prosoundweb.com/forums/ -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
[EMAIL PROTECTED];137366 Wrote: I can now find out what software is as cheap, precise and fast as a block, some splicing tape and a well-wielded razor blade! You're showing your age, man! -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Eh? What's that you're saying? Speak up a bit lad, and stop mumbling. And what's worse - I say WHAT'S WORSE - is you can't get proper steel needles any more either.. On 19 Sep 2006, at 14:39, Michaelwagner wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED];137366 Wrote: I can now find out what software is as cheap, precise and fast as a block, some splicing tape and a well-wielded razor blade! You're showing your age, man! -- Michaelwagner -- -- Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php? userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
I have to agree with this, at least on my own account, the more so since I once (a long time ago) did know, at least, what was state of the art in broadcasting studios in the UK. Then, though I was involved in the business. I don't now find the information is that easy to acquire. Neither record companies nor broadcasters exactly encourage the public to mooch into a studio and play around. Any suggestions, Pat? On 15 Sep 2006, at 21:14, Pat Farrell wrote: I'm boggled that audiophiles are so illinformed about what the state of the art is in recording studios. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't now find the information is that easy to acquire. Neither record companies nor broadcasters exactly encourage the public to mooch into a studio and play around. Any suggestions, Pat? Get subscribed to some trade rags. Mix is free to those in the trade, as is TapeOp. Sound-on-sound from the UK is the most valuable of those aimed a home-studio folks, of the magazines that I've read and had to pay for. I don't think much of most of the magazines for 'home recording' that are available at your local Borders. Most of the home-studio folks are not interested in high quality recordings, the owners all think that they will be the next band to become as rich as The Beatles. They would be a lot better off working gigs in bars and learning to make music, rather than worrying over which $300 microphone is 'best'. One fairly good website is gearslutz.com sometimes useful is http://www.prosoundweb.com/forums/ -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seanadams;136660 Wrote: That's basically it, with the further point I just thought of: adding passive attenuation would be a bad idea unless the source Z in low. Really it looks like 100#937; is the way to go - since nobody's rooting for 1K, I'm going to change it. This is the right thing to do, as you have promised Transporter as a product for audiophiles. We audiophiles are well-accustomed (in fact even relish) the bit of extra care and feeding necessary to use audiophile gear. We are well aware of the fact that you can do something stupid and destroy an amp or speaker. To make a design idiot proof at the peril of sonic performance might well be unforgivable in this crowd. Plus, I think you would find that there are many audiophiles like me with mono amps positioned close to speakers. These folks are often the ones who live and breathe this stuff, and are the opinion leaders in the great cyber knowledge base out there. If their stuff doesnt sound good with Transporter, rightly or wrongly, Transporter will quickly get the reputation of not sounding good, period. -- atkinsonrr atkinsonrr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7214 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seraf123;136854 Wrote: Cliveb, So does that mean that I can connect the Transporter to ATC actives like 150ASL or 100ASL and avoid connecting a power amp and the sound will still be of great quality? any downside to this setup? Another vote here for SB/Transporter directly into active speakers. I'm running my SB2 directly ino a Mackie HRS120 subwoofer and a pair of Mackie HR624s. And it sounds fantastic. The only problem I had was that the auto-sensing feature on the HR624s didn't work with the SB2 connected (see bug 3784 for details). But that's now been fixed with the new firmware 64 (released yesterday). So I'm a happy camper! -- cbemoore cbemoore's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=163 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
DCtoDaylight;136620 Wrote: So to summarize, a 100R load wouldn't hurt the Transporter, but might cause distortion problems for people using a poorly thought out adapter scheme, and a 1k load might cause problems for people using correct (but probably long) cabling, with gear having moderatly low input impendance (like the Pass labs gear). Good engineering is allway's about deciding on the best trade offs! Personally, I prefer to keep output impedances low, and would lean more towards dropping the resistance, but I guess my vote doesn't really count, because my Transporter will either be used in my large system (so there will be a pre-amp between it and the 5m balanced cables running to the amp rack) or in my small system (where the whole shebang, speaker to speaker is only 2 m wide!). Cheers, Dave That's basically it, with the further point I just thought of: adding passive attenuation would be a bad idea unless the source Z in low. Really it looks like 100#937; is the way to go - since nobody's rooting for 1K, I'm going to change it. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seanadams;136660 Wrote: That's basically it, with the further point I just thought of: adding passive attenuation would be a bad idea unless the source Z in low. Really it looks like 100#937; is the way to go - since nobody's rooting for 1K, I'm going to change it. Will this change be applied also for the first production batch? Steinar -- sbjaerum sbjaerum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=237 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
sbjaerum;136661 Wrote: Will this change be applied also for the first production batch? Steinar Yes - the boards have already been made so we will rework them. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seanadams;136662 Wrote: Yes - the boards have already been made so we will rework them. Will that cause any delays? -- Sleestack *headphone:* singlepower sds-xlr at, classe sacd2, hd650 *2 channel:* tact rcs 2.2.xp w/ full aberdeen mods, bel canto oneref. 1000 monoblocks x 4,teac esoteric p-03/d-03, epiphany 12-12s (waiting for my 20-21s), tact w210 corner load subs *5.1 channel:* tact tcs mkii w/ aberdeen power supply, tact boz 216/2200 (x5) w/ aberdeen power supply, tact adc6 w/ full aberdeen mods, denon 5910, bel canto pl-1a, eggleston andra ii (x5), velodyne dd-15, pioneer elite pro 1130hd Sleestack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seanadams;136610 Wrote: True, but the concern is not what it can successfully drive to ffull amplitude, but rather how low of a resistance it takes to actually damage it if it _tries_ to drive it. Yup. That's why I mentioned potential thermal issues in my post. If AKM says a 100 Ohm load is safe for an indefinite period of time, then that's a strong argument for making the output impedance 100 Ohms. -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3128 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Sleestack;13 Wrote: Will that cause any delays? No it's not a big deal. The boards are done - just waiting for all the machined parts to arrive. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seanadams;136793 Wrote: No it's not a big deal. The boards are done - just waiting for all the machined parts to arrive. Great. I ordered mine when the announcement came out, so I'm hoping to see my pair of black Tranporters within the next week or so. The SB3 has been great, by my systems beg for Transporters. -- Sleestack *headphone:* singlepower sds-xlr at, classe sacd2, hd650 *2 channel:* tact rcs 2.2.xp w/ full aberdeen mods, bel canto oneref. 1000 monoblocks x 4,teac esoteric p-03/d-03, epiphany 12-12s (waiting for my 20-21s), tact w210 corner load subs *5.1 channel:* tact tcs mkii w/ aberdeen power supply, tact boz 216/2200 (x5) w/ aberdeen power supply, tact adc6 w/ full aberdeen mods, denon 5910, bel canto pl-1a, eggleston andra ii (x5), velodyne dd-15, pioneer elite pro 1130hd Sleestack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seanadams;136660 Wrote: That's basically it, with the further point I just thought of: adding passive attenuation would be a bad idea unless the source Z in low. Really it looks like 100#937; is the way to go - since nobody's rooting for 1K, I'm going to change it. Sean, I want to applaud how receptive Slim Devices have been over this issue. I certainly think you're making the right decision. Someone else earlier asked how many audiophiles are likely to want to run a Transporter directly into power amps some distance away. Well, here's one: my plan would be to connect the Transporter balanced outputs to the balanced inputs of my ATC active speakers. Not that I've ordered a Transporter yet - so my vote probably doesn't carry so much weight. But I think Transporter direct into ATCs (or similar atcive speakers) is a superb minimalist concept, and many potential customers might be tempted by it. Edit: forgot to mention that the input impedance of the ATC power amps is only 10k, so they will certainly benefit from the reduced output impedance. -- cliveb Performers - dozens of mixers and effects - clipped/hypercompressed mastering - you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Cliveb, So does that mean that I can connect the Transporter to ATC actives like 150ASL or 100ASL and avoid connecting a power amp and the sound will still be of great quality? any downside to this setup? -- seraf123 seraf123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7509 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
From my experience, put one dimmer in a room and try to use unbalanced RCA cables of any length, and the amp will pick up the buzz from the dimmer. If you do this in your own living room, you can chose the dimmer or fix a noisy one. When I DJ, I can't rewire the room. I have to be resistant to room noise. Balanced outputs would really help. -- Michaelwagner Michaelwagner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=428 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seraf123 wrote: Cliveb, I'm not Clive, so you can decide how to handle this interuption So does that mean that I can connect the Transporter to ATC actives like 150ASL or 100ASL and avoid connecting a power amp and the sound will still be of great quality? any downside to this setup? You can connect the Transporter directly to any powered speakers and get good to great quality, mostly dependant on the quality of the speakers. There is a school of thought that says that powered speakers should be able to sound substantially better, because the designer can match the amplifier to the speaker, and put the bumps in the amp where the valleys are in the speaker, etc. This is a lot easier than getting both the speaker and the amp to be flat from 20 to 20kHz (let alone DC to daylight :-) There are lots of very high quality powered speakers. Most of them are aimed at the pro audio studio market. I've got some Mackie 824 monitor speakers in my studio, and they sound wonderful. They are not particularly cheap, and are way too ugly for a reasonable WAF. The studio oriented monitor speakers aim at a slightly different target, they are aiming to be 'truthful' rather than 'musical'. The difference is often very subtle, but lots of stuff in the sound world is pretty subtle. Most studio oriented speakers also have level adjustments (usually small and on the back) so that you can match their maximum output to the level you are sending. This eliminates one of the major reasons that some folks argue that connecting a SB3 directly to an amp (or powered speakers) is a bad idea. There are a huge number of quality studio monitor vendors. The biggest problem, other than that they are usually low on WAF, is that you can only listen to them if you live where there are active professional studios, which is mostly the really big cities. There are lots of mail/web sites, and most have decent return policies. Most of, if not all, of the quality studio self powered monitors accept balanced input over an XLR connection, so the Transporter would be wonderful. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
I think the general rule of thumb that most audiophiles make is that the input impedance of an amplifier should be at least 100x the output impedance of the preamp/source that preceeds it. For many amps, 1kohm output impedance of the Transporter should be fine, but there are many amps out there that have input impedances in the 20k-90kohm range (eg. the Pass Labs X.5 series amps and Bel Canto eOne amps have a 22kohm input impedance, Cary amps are around 90kohms, etc). -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
I'd have thought what mattered is the low pass filter break point formed by the output stage/input stage [resistive] impedance and the cables [capcitance] impedance (plus any input capacitance of the power amp). Even if the output stage impedance = input stage impedance as long as the LPF break point is high enough should be OK. Hence a passive pre with a 100K pot has a max ouput impedance of 25K [pot in the middle]. If this drives a cable of say 100pF/m - gives a -3dB point of 64kHz for a 1m cable, but 6kHz for a 10m cable. [You probably want much less than -3dB at 20-30K] So 1K should be fine as long as the cable capacitance is low enough - i.e. it is a relatively short enough. So if the target LPF break point is -0.1dB at 20kHz, it is -3dB at ~130kHz, which would equate to ~12m for my theoretical 100pF/m cable if I have done the maths right(!) [input impedance 1K] -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Patrick Dixon wrote: But isn't the point of balanced to drive long cable lengths? Unbalanced is just fine for normal 0.8m stuff. The point of balanced is to be immune to noise, or at least noise that hits both strands of the signal carrying wire. Many audiophiles like monoblock amps because they can put the amps near the speakers, and so they run longish interconnects from the preamp to the amps, and short speaker cables. They are way longer than a meter or two. Plus a lot of the justification for $1000 interconnects goes away if it was balanced. Granted, doing an all balanced design for the preamp and amp (and DAC, etc.) would add costs, and the XLR connectors are more expensive than RCA plugs. But if you could cut down the rationale for using mega dollar interconnects, couldn't you afford a little more for the connectors? A great Neutrik costs as much as $5 for the plug, and the jack might be as expensive as $10. Pro audio and domestic hi-fi are just not the same thing! Agreed, but the music that is being reproduced is recorded by pro audio folks. I'm boggled that audiophiles are so illinformed about what the state of the art is in recording studios. -- Pat Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.bioinformatx.com ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Patrick Dixon;136573 Wrote: But isn't the point of balanced to drive long cable lengths? Unbalanced is just fine for normal 0.8m stuff. Pro audio and domestic hi-fi are just not the same thing! Almost all of my gear is set up using balanced connections from source all the way to amps. In some case those are for setups where I need long runs, but not always. -- Sleestack *headphone:* singlepower sds-xlr at, classe sacd2, hd650 *2 channel:* tact rcs 2.2.xp w/ full aberdeen mods, bel canto oneref. 1000 monoblocks x 4,teac esoteric p-03/d-03, epiphany 12-12s (waiting for my 20-21s), tact w210 corner load subs *5.1 channel:* tact tcs mkii w/ aberdeen power supply, tact boz 216/2200 (x5) w/ aberdeen power supply, tact adc6 w/ full aberdeen mods, denon 5910, bel canto pl-1a, eggleston andra ii (x5), velodyne dd-15, pioneer elite pro 1130hd Sleestack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Pat Farrell;136578 Wrote: Plus a lot of the justification for $1000 interconnects goes away if it was balanced. Oh, I don't think it really makes any difference - $1000 interconnects are all about marketing a premium product to a small market. People pay stupid amounts of money for jewelry and art too. Balanced really only makes sense in a domestic environment if you have active speakers and a long run between the pre and power amps. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
seanadams;136534 Wrote: Although the op amps could easily drive, say 100R, by using a 1K output Z you ensure that the signal from the side you want is not distorted because the other side is working too hard to drive a short at the end of the cable. Well, suppose someone put one of these adapters at the RCA input of a preamp. Also suppose that the Transporter was cranked up to maximum gain. I don't know what it puts out in that condition. I'll guess 5 Volts peak. Into 100 Ohms, that's 50 mA peak. There's not a whole lot of op-amps that can put out that kind of current. Seems like you'd need something along the lines of a Buf634 to do that. I wouldn't be worried so much about the distortion of the unused side of the differential output so much as the thermal issues from putting out such high current. That's a strong argument for using 1k. OTOH, if you put a big disclaimer stating in no uncertain terms that such adapters should never be used, better performance driving long cables would probably be possible. My system has 30 ft interconnects (single-ended) to monoblocks on the floor behind my speakers. If I were to attempt that with a balanced connection straight from transporter to power amp, I'd be happier with 100 Ohms than 1k. -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3128 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
Patrick Dixon;136583 Wrote: Balanced really only makes sense in a domestic environment if you have active speakers and a long run between the pre and power amps. Perhaps in you setups, but I can think is quite a few other situations where they are necessary. In one of my audio rooms, my speaker setup sits at one of the room. The Transporter will be in that setup. 20 ft across the room, I have a headphone setup that accepts and outputs balanced signals. I can run an analog signal directly from the Transporter to that headphone setup rather than having to get another Transporter for that setup. right now I use the SB3 coax out into my Esoteric D-03, and use XLR outs that run across the room to the headphone setup. -- Sleestack *headphone:* singlepower sds-xlr at, classe sacd2, hd650 *2 channel:* tact rcs 2.2.xp w/ full aberdeen mods, bel canto oneref. 1000 monoblocks x 4,teac esoteric p-03/d-03, epiphany 12-12s (waiting for my 20-21s), tact w210 corner load subs *5.1 channel:* tact tcs mkii w/ aberdeen power supply, tact boz 216/2200 (x5) w/ aberdeen power supply, tact adc6 w/ full aberdeen mods, denon 5910, bel canto pl-1a, eggleston andra ii (x5), velodyne dd-15, pioneer elite pro 1130hd Sleestack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: 1K Balanced impedance
andy_c;136585 Wrote: I don't know what it puts out in that condition. I'll guess 5 Volts peak. Into 100 Ohms, that's 50 mA peak. There's not a whole lot of op-amps that can put out that kind of current. True, but the concern is not what it can successfully drive to ffull amplitude, but rather how low of a resistance it takes to actually damage it if it _tries_ to drive it. AKM advises there's no chance a 100R load would damage it (in fact, this is a typical resistance used for RCA outs) - the issue was that you'd get some (probably not a lot) distortion in the case of improper balun wiring, due to additional load when listening to one leg of the output while the other is drawing a lot of current. I haven't actually tried this but it makes sense... anyway, it's only an issue if someone hooks it up in a very wrong way. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
