[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;169133 Wrote: tomjtx wrote: [color=blue] Max seems to be able to do it: http://sbooth.org/Max/ R. re: Max - I played around with it a few months ago and found that a number of tags were lost when converting from ALAC to FLAC. From memory, I think the ALAC composer, comment and year tags were not mapped to FLAC equivalents. I raised a bug report with the developer at the time but haven't checked if this has been addressed yet in a later release. -- mikerob mikerob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Interesting op-ed in the NY Times - Want an IPhone? Beware the IHandcuffs: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/14/business/yourmoney/14digi.html -- benthos benthos's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2556 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;169007 Wrote: geraint smith wrote: If only FLAC worked with iTunes (or vice versa), or else that there were another music ripping/tagging/labelling all-in-one product for Mac OSX that was as easy, and worked as well as, iTunes. But it doesn't, and there isn't - or if there is one, I'd very much like to know about it (although only if it reads tags attached by iTunes. The thought of doing all that again...ugh!). So Aiff it is, then. The only practical thing against Aiff (apart from the space it takes on your disc, which is not much against it given how cheap disc space is now) is that programmes for PCs don't seem to like it much. There there, very sad, never mind. But tagging is not an issue with Aiff. You can - and I do, using iTunes - tag Aiff as easily, comprehensively and well as one can tag FLAC, and a darned site better than one can tag WAV. So, would you be interested in a script that converts your AIFF files to FLAC, including all tags? Also, if you're tied to formats supported by iTunes then ALAC will take up less space than AIFF and support the same tags. R. Not really, Robin, no. What gave you that idea? I don't think I suggested that at all! If, however, a programme existed that did everything that iTunes does, but which handled Flac (and, preferably, which could rip SACDs and DVD-A in 24 bit, too) in addition, then I would (be interested, that is). I can quite see the desirability of open source/non-proprietary software, and thoroughly approve of the philosphy. But one doesn't (to my knowledge) so I'm not. ALAC has various disadvantages on the Squeezebox - no ff or rew, needs to be converted on the fly - that, for me, heavily outweigh the advantage of compaction. I still have some files in ALAC, and using them on the SB is a pain on my setup - I'm sure, for instance, that there are a lot more dropouts when I'm using it - so I'm continuing to convert them to AIFF. -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
lafayette;169093 Wrote: I am an attorney, and...logic matters to me. Are you sure you're a lawyer? I've never heard one say that before. The ones I know say logic can go hang provided that they win. -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
tomjtx;169120 Wrote: even if I continue to use Itunes. I really liked iTunes (especially as it was so much better than MusicMatch, which my first iPod came with - what a shocker that was!). However, its increasing focus on its music store (which I will never use - DRM, low bitrate...) put me off a bit. The move to SlimServer was surprisingly pleasant - all of a sudden I could use proper tagging with classical. I then Rockboxed my iPod, using SyncBack to sync it, and it sounds much better now, using FLACs. I'm also well into Mozilla's Firefox browser and Thunderbird email client - both comfortably better than the MS equivalents. Foobar is a great music player. All of these open source and freeware products are a bit more hassle to configure, but once you've done it, you have things the way you want it, and have total control. It's really liberating. So my advice is to dump iTunes. I now have a better iPod, better syncing, proper tagging, a better music player, a free music file system and no wretched nagging every day when a new version is out. Not to mention a Squeezebox! A no-brainer for me :) Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
I think the AppleTV has quite a bit of potential. The price here in the UK is around the same as a wireless Squeezebox 3, which in my view makes it pretty good value as it can do lots of other things too. It's not a straight replacement, but (as someone said earlier in the thread) it will have a simplicity of design compared to the Squeezebox. I think the interface via the minimalist Apple remote will be very good. I have a 24 iMac and Front Row works nicely as a media player of my iTunes library. I dislike intensely the iTunes store, and the whole DRM mess that it comes with, but as a simple player of music (and maybe movies - have to see how open it is with playing content) it's not a bad deal at all. -- Paul Shields Paul Shields's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8422 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
I stand corrected ; ) By the way, I think Apple TV has one serious disadvantage. Let's think about those of use who have collections numbering in the thousands. Browsing genres and scrolling, from the beginning of the alphabet, isn't much of an option unless you're just noodling around. And noodling around is fine. But let's suppose you want to get to Furtwangler's Beethoven's 9th. How do you do that on Apple TV? Slim Devices has this handy feature called search. With it, you can use a keypad to type in what you want. Incredibly, amusingly, and stupidly, Apple doesn't provide this feature! To my mind -- its many benefits aside -- this is a deal breaker for Apple TV as a music player, at least in my book. geraint smith;169182 Wrote: Are you sure you're a lawyer? I've never heard one say that before. The ones I know say logic can go hang provided that they win. -- lafayette Sweet Home Alabama lafayette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;169133 Wrote: tomjtx wrote: Robin, Do you have a way to easily convert ALAC to FLAC? ALAC, I mean, alas no. You may be able to do it with Foobar2000, but I suspect you're on a Mac. dbPoweramp can do it, but again, that's Pc-based. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t49757.html http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t45497.html Max seems to be able to do it: http://sbooth.org/Max/ Do you have OS-X Tiger (10.4) ? HTH, R. Yes , I have OS 10.4 Thanks for the info. I'll look at the links, Tom -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
tomjtx;169270 Wrote: Yes , I have OS 10.4 Thanks for the info. I'll look at the links, Tom A me too, I'm afraid, but I really do want to thank Robin for that Max link. Now I can have a little play with FLAC and find out for myself what can and can't be done on the Mac with it. Thank you, Robin! -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
The problem is that iTunes does not support FLAC. As far as I know, anyway. Otherwise, converting to FLAC would be nice -- the RW/FF feature is, well, a good feature. tomjtx;169270 Wrote: Yes , I have OS 10.4 Thanks for the info. I'll look at the links, Tom -- lafayette Sweet Home Alabama lafayette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
lafayette;169399 Wrote: The problem is that iTunes does not support FLAC. As far as I know, anyway. Otherwise, converting to FLAC would be nice -- the RW/FF feature is, well, a good feature. http://playlistmag.com/news/2006/07/11/ogg/index.php -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
opaqueice;169401 Wrote: http://playlistmag.com/news/2006/07/11/ogg/index.php Cool, thanks for the link -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
tomjtx wrote: opaqueice;169401 Wrote: http://playlistmag.com/news/2006/07/11/ogg/index.php Cool, thanks for the link ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
opaqueice wrote: lafayette;169399 Wrote: The problem is that iTunes does not support FLAC. As far as I know, anyway. Otherwise, converting to FLAC would be nice -- the RW/FF feature is, well, a good feature. http://playlistmag.com/news/2006/07/11/ogg/index.php From the release notes: FLAC - FLAC decoder and importer for Ogg FLAC (no support for native FLAC file format yet); So, close, but no cigar! ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Hey, this is really cool. I'm tempted to back-up my library (again), convert the whole shebang, and give this a try. opaqueice;169401 Wrote: http://playlistmag.com/news/2006/07/11/ogg/index.php -- lafayette Sweet Home Alabama lafayette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;169431 Wrote: From the release notes:[/color] FLAC - FLAC decoder and importer for Ogg FLAC (no support for native FLAC file format yet); So, close, but no cigar! The difference seems to be a few bytes at the beginning of the file and the .ogg extension on the file name. So flac -d *.flac | flac --ogg (or something similar) would convert from regular FLAC to Ogg FLAC. Or alternately if you're converting from ALAC some some other format you could just go straight to Ogg FLAC. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
ezkcdude;168698 Wrote: I think both the TV and iPhone miss the mark. There are numerous solutions that do what the AppleTV does, and the iPhone is way too expensive for what it does. Although, I agree with the above poster that a nice SlimServer skin would make it more appealing, in that it could be used as a Wi-Fi remote. I think it is too expensive for the iPod user market, most have Nanos or shuffles, but it is not expensive compared to Smartphones, such as Trios, SonyEricssons, Nokias and others that cost in the region of $500. What is scary though is that you have to sign up for a 2 year contract to get that price and there is no mention of monthly charges as yet. It gives you an idea of what it would cost without contract. In the UK we're used to getting handsets for free or under £100 with a year's contract. So the question is - will an iPod user shell out for the phone and ditch the handset and iPod they currently own, or will business users switch? The business users may well want to stick with exchange-based devices from Microsoft, or encrypted devices like the Blackberry. The real big plus point is it now means that the other manufacturers have got to smarten up their act and produce handsets that are easy to use to compete. I think the AppleTV will be a big success, £199 in the UK compares very favourably with SB3, especially if you already have a TV and I would imagine leaves Roku and Sonus wondering what to do next. We may scoff at proprietary file formats and closed nature of the beast, but consumers simply don't care - the many millions of downloads on iTunes testify to that. I will probably buy one because the interface is far better for my family to use, the SB is so geeky in comparison - they have used both and never come back to the SB. The SB survives because of audio quality, but I may well ditch it if the AppleTV sounds as good through my DAC. I rip all my CDs to Apple Lossless anyway so that my kids can use iTunes on their PCs, so it would just make life a lot easier for all of us. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
lafayette wrote: Pray, do expound upon how FLAC is superior to Apple Lossless (which is not lossy)? Or AIFF, which is not lossy and uncompressed, for that matter? 1. FLAC is open source, not proprietary 2. FLAC itakes up less space than AIFF, One point people seem to be missing is this: Apple has moved forward with 802.11n. All these problems with Squeezebox/Transporter drop-outs? History. Nope. The microwave/phone/xmas tree will still affect the signal. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;168860 Wrote: 1. FLAC is open source, not proprietary Apologies for jumping into your discussion, but how does that affect audio quality? It's more of a personal issue whether you care or not about open source vs proprietary and it doesn't make either technically superior to the other. They are both lossless and take up less file space. I like choice too, but I'm not a zealot either way. I've never used FLAC because the tools take too long to use, if it were as slick as iTunes, I might switch, but then I like the to being able to use iTunes for playback on a PC as well. Robin Bowes;168860 Wrote: 2. FLAC itakes up less space than AIFF, That is a good reason, but so does Apple Lossless and with disk space so cheap, it's probably the tagging aspect that is more relevant. Robin Bowes;168860 Wrote: Nope. The microwave/phone/xmas tree will still affect the signal. R. Is that another Apple convergence device? It cooks your brain and pokes tinsel in your eyes at the same time when you are calling home at Christmas? :-) -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
CardinalFang wrote: Robin Bowes;168860 Wrote: 1. FLAC is open source, not proprietary Apologies for jumping into your discussion, but how does that affect audio quality? Who said anything about audio quality? The original question was: Pray, do expound upon how FLAC is superior to Apple Lossless (which is not lossy)? Or AIFF, which is not lossy and uncompressed, for that matter? Audio quality should be identical, given that all file formats under discussion here are lossless. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;168892 Wrote: CardinalFang wrote: Robin Bowes;168860 Wrote: 1. FLAC is open source, not proprietary Apologies for jumping into your discussion, but how does that affect audio quality? Who said anything about audio quality? The original question was: Pray, do expound upon how FLAC is superior to Apple Lossless (which is not lossy)? Or AIFF, which is not lossy and uncompressed, for that matter? Audio quality should be identical, given that all file formats under discussion here are lossless. R. Someone earlier on the tread implied that ALAC isn't really lossless. I think the audio quality comment was in reference to that. Thanks , Robin for reiterating that ALAC should be auditorily indistinguishable from FLAC. There seems to be some misconception about that. I am sometimes tempted to convert to FLAC but I am so used to itunes I hesitate. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;168892 Wrote: Audio quality should be identical, given that all file formats under discussion here are lossless. R. Exaxctly. They are audio file formats and the only way to judge superiority is on their performance in that role. Judgement based on Open Source vs Proprietary is irrelevant in deciding the superior format, it's just a personal view of philisophical approach to the formats. I like Open Source because of the community aspects and I also like proprietary because it is designed for one product - the one I own. But they are my personal reasons and not due to measurable technical superiority. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
CardinalFang wrote: Robin Bowes;168892 Wrote: Audio quality should be identical, given that all file formats under discussion here are lossless. R. Exaxctly. They are audio file formats and the only way to judge superiority is on their performance in that role. No, that is *your* way to judge superiority. Judgement based on Open Source vs Proprietary is irrelevant in deciding the superior format, it's just a personal view of philisophical approach to the formats. I like Open Source because of the community aspects and I also like proprietary because it is designed for one product - the one I own. But they are my personal reasons and not due to measurable technical superiority. You seem to have unilaterally decided to define superior as technically superior. It is only my opinion that an open source format is preferable to a closed, proprietary format - others may (at it would seem, do) disagree, but you cannot exclude this fact from consideration when debating which format is superior. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
tomjtx wrote: Thanks , Robin for reiterating that ALAC should be auditorily indistinguishable from FLAC. There seems to be some misconception about that. I suspect there is often confusion between ALAC (lossless) and AAC (lossy). It seems that many more people have heard of AAC than ALAC. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;168923 Wrote: You seem to have unilaterally decided to define superior as technically superior. R. Perhaps I did, but it's the most meaningful way to compare audio formats within the context of the original discussion which was about FLAC being genuinely lossless. Anyway, the orginal discussion was also based on a misunderstanding, so let's let it rest eh? -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Why on earth do people get upset about this stuff? This is nonsense. The formats are perfectly equivalent when it comes to audio output. If you are not an Apple user and do not want ALAC, well, that's your business. But puffing up your chest about being somehow superior is just, well, hot air. Sorry for being curt but these responses have been rude. Robin Bowes;168923 Wrote: CardinalFang wrote: Robin Bowes;168892 Wrote: Audio quality should be identical, given that all file formats under discussion here are lossless. R. Exaxctly. They are audio file formats and the only way to judge superiority is on their performance in that role. No, that is *your* way to judge superiority. Judgement based on Open Source vs Proprietary is irrelevant in deciding the superior format, it's just a personal view of philisophical approach to the formats. I like Open Source because of the community aspects and I also like proprietary because it is designed for one product - the one I own. But they are my personal reasons and not due to measurable technical superiority. You seem to have unilaterally decided to define superior as technically superior. It is only my opinion that an open source format is preferable to a closed, proprietary format - others may (at it would seem, do) disagree, but you cannot exclude this fact from consideration when debating which format is superior. R. -- lafayette Sweet Home Alabama lafayette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
lafayette wrote: Why on earth do people get upset about this stuff? This is nonsense. The formats are perfectly equivalent when it comes to audio output. If you are not an Apple user and do not want ALAC, well, that's your business. But puffing up your chest about being somehow superior is just, well, hot air. Sorry for being curt but these responses have been rude. sigh Yet again, you manage to find offence where there is (or should be) none. You ask a question, I answer it with my opinion. I'm not upset - just stating my opinion. It's not nonsense - it's my opinion. In my world, open source is important, so the fact that flac is open source is also important, and that makes it superior to other lossless formats. Keeping this vaguely on topic (Slim Devices) don't lose sight of the fact that Slim Devices' products support flac natively, which makes flac a more suitable choice. I can perfectly understand that if you're a Mac/iTunes user that flac is not so attractive as the support is not as good as for Apple's formats (so I am led to believe). You are free to prefer any format you like, and for any reason. But please don't come whining on here when other people state their views and opinions that disagree with yours. Now *that* upsets me. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Pat Farrell;168809 Wrote: tomjtx wrote: benthos;168790 Wrote: That's where you and I part paths: it's about my property, not Apple's, or anyone else's. I completely agree with you that it's my property once I buy it. This whole DRM thing should be a major consumer concern...but most people seem to be unaware of the limitations DRM puts on our purchase. Sadly, this thread is going off topic. And it gets complicated quickly. IANAL... The legal terms on a CD are not what people think. You do not own the CD's music. You only own the right to listen to it. Buying a CD gives you only limited rights to use the music, you can not, for example, put the wave files up on the internet. Sony, last year put out a number of CDs with DRM on them, which is fairly bad, but much worse was that Sony put them out without labeling that the CDs were not really CDs, per the RedBook spec. Video licensing is even less well understood that music, as bandwidth to share videos has not been around and commonplace as long as bandwidth to share music. It is correct that today, neither Microsoft nor Apple include DRM in their mainline products. But Microsoft's Play-for-sure was a DRM. And Apple is in bed with Disney, a major creator of movies. So one should be careful extrapolating from today's Apple and Microsoft products. It is impossible to tell, but if the Sony CD DRM had not been badly implemented, and had not been labeled a rootkit by folks strongly against all DRM, perhaps all CDs sold today would have the same sorts of protection as Sony tried to sell. Be careful with broad statements about its my property because the law is not as clear or settled as people think. It is possible that Apple and/or Microsoft will add DRM to their formats. It is not possible that FLAC will ever add it, as the goal of FLAC precludes it. Just as there is nothing to prevent someone from making a package that has better compression than FLAC and calls it something like AlmostFree lossless audio codec. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html If only FLAC worked with iTunes (or vice versa), or else that there were another music ripping/tagging/labelling all-in-one product for Mac OSX that was as easy, and worked as well as, iTunes. But it doesn't, and there isn't - or if there is one, I'd very much like to know about it (although only if it reads tags attached by iTunes. The thought of doing all that again...ugh!). So Aiff it is, then. The only practical thing against Aiff (apart from the space it takes on your disc, which is not much against it given how cheap disc space is now) is that programmes for PCs don't seem to like it much. There there, very sad, never mind. But tagging is not an issue with Aiff. You can - and I do, using iTunes - tag Aiff as easily, comprehensively and well as one can tag FLAC, and a darned site better than one can tag WAV. -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;168860 Wrote: lafayette wrote: [color=blue] One point people seem to be missing is this: Apple has moved forward with 802.11n. All these problems with Squeezebox/Transporter drop-outs? History. Nope. The microwave/phone/xmas tree will still affect the signal. R. Just think, folks, now this new improved flavour brings you drop outs at five times the speed. Unless, of course, you plug your Squeezebox into your Airport Express, when you will get none at all (saving the cordless phone next door, your honour). -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
CardinalFang;168872 Wrote: Apologies for jumping into your discussion, but how does that affect audio quality? It's more of a personal issue whether you care or not about open source vs proprietary and it doesn't make either technically superior to the other. They are both lossless and take up less file space. I like choice too, but I'm not a zealot either way. I've never used FLAC because the tools take too long to use, if it were as slick as iTunes, I might switch, but then I like the to being able to use iTunes for playback on a PC as well. That is a good reason, but so does Apple Lossless and with disk space so cheap, it's probably the tagging aspect that is more relevant. Quite - save that tagging not an issue either. Aiff tags as well as FLAC. Is that another Apple convergence device? It cooks your brain and pokes tinsel in your eyes at the same time when you are calling home at Christmas? :-) Aaargh! Don't! Jobs has ears everywhere! It'll be in production in time for Q4! Geraint. -- geraint smith geraint smith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=625 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
geraint smith wrote: If only FLAC worked with iTunes (or vice versa), or else that there were another music ripping/tagging/labelling all-in-one product for Mac OSX that was as easy, and worked as well as, iTunes. But it doesn't, and there isn't - or if there is one, I'd very much like to know about it (although only if it reads tags attached by iTunes. The thought of doing all that again...ugh!). So Aiff it is, then. The only practical thing against Aiff (apart from the space it takes on your disc, which is not much against it given how cheap disc space is now) is that programmes for PCs don't seem to like it much. There there, very sad, never mind. But tagging is not an issue with Aiff. You can - and I do, using iTunes - tag Aiff as easily, comprehensively and well as one can tag FLAC, and a darned site better than one can tag WAV. So, would you be interested in a script that converts your AIFF files to FLAC, including all tags? Also, if you're tied to formats supported by iTunes then ALAC will take up less space than AIFF and support the same tags. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Perhaps it is simply your manner or the way I interpreted an abrasive and/or curt post. Having said that, I am an attorney, and as open source matters to you, logic matters to me. You did not state an opinion. You stated something as a matter of fact. As a matter of fact, in terms of audio, the two formats are equivalent. No one is forcing you to use an Apple codec. You want open source? Then how about turning to Microsoft? Apple Lossless is perfect for audio, just as much as FLAC, and it is convenient for Apple users. Incidentally, Apple users comprise 3% or so of the market. I don't think you need to feel threatened by them. Robin Bowes;168969 Wrote: lafayette wrote:[color=blue] sigh Yet again, you manage to find offence where there is (or should be) none. You ask a question, I answer it with my opinion. I'm not upset - just stating my opinion. It's not nonsense - it's my opinion. In my world, open source is important, so the fact that flac is open source is also important, and that makes it superior to other lossless formats. Keeping this vaguely on topic (Slim Devices) don't lose sight of the fact that Slim Devices' products support flac natively, which makes flac a more suitable choice. I can perfectly understand that if you're a Mac/iTunes user that flac is not so attractive as the support is not as good as for Apple's formats (so I am led to believe). You are free to prefer any format you like, and for any reason. But please don't come whining on here when other people state their views and opinions that disagree with yours. Now *that* upsets me. R. -- lafayette Sweet Home Alabama lafayette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;169102 Wrote: Nothing further to add, m'lud. R. Careful! Anything you say can and most probably will be used against you! ;-D P.S: What other merits are there to compare between two lossless formats than the other aspects? That sort of goes without saying.. For long term storage non-proprietary is always superior. (Gee, how well those old Word documents work today...) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Robin Bowes;169007 Wrote: geraint smith wrote: If only FLAC worked with iTunes (or vice versa), or else that there were another music ripping/tagging/labelling all-in-one product for Mac OSX that was as easy, and worked as well as, iTunes. But it doesn't, and there isn't - or if there is one, I'd very much like to know about it (although only if it reads tags attached by iTunes. The thought of doing all that again...ugh!). So Aiff it is, then. The only practical thing against Aiff (apart from the space it takes on your disc, which is not much against it given how cheap disc space is now) is that programmes for PCs don't seem to like it much. There there, very sad, never mind. But tagging is not an issue with Aiff. You can - and I do, using iTunes - tag Aiff as easily, comprehensively and well as one can tag FLAC, and a darned site better than one can tag WAV. So, would you be interested in a script that converts your AIFF files to FLAC, including all tags? Also, if you're tied to formats supported by iTunes then ALAC will take up less space than AIFF and support the same tags. R. Robin, Do you have a way to easily convert ALAC to FLAC? I am very much plug and play re computers and I only know how to push the button the software tells me to push. I would like to try FLAC and I think it could be a good idea to have my files backed up to FLAC even if I continue to use Itunes. Tom -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
tomjtx;169120 Wrote: Robin, Do you have a way to easily convert ALAC to FLAC? I am very much plug and play re computers and I only know how to push the button the software tells me to push. I would like to try FLAC and I think it could be a good idea to have my files backed up to FLAC even if I continue to use Itunes. Tom DBPoweramp will do it for a whole tree. I recently did it. I _did_ have a problem with some files that I ripped after my most recent itunes update. Some of these I _was_ able to transcode using foobar's converter. Others I had to re-rip. This makes me wonder a bit about what exactly went into that last itunes upgrade. This brings me to my biggest worry about a closed proprietary format. There is _nothing_ to prevent the owner of such a format from making changes to it at any time. This could include adding drm, making it impossible to convert, _whatever they want_. FLAC is open source, so even if the guy who wrote it decided to do something like this (afaik _extremely_ unlikely), there is nothing to stop anyone interested from forking at that point. This is a pretty major big deal for me. Maybe not for you, but it _is_, at some level, a technical difference. Please note that noone here has advocated trusting M$, either. And lafayette, for someone who claims to love logic, you do seem to be prone to spout off on technical subjects of which you know essentially nothing (such as networking). Asserting what you want to be true merely because you believe it is hardly the mark of a logician. Also- you might want to note that the subject of logic is taught at the higher levels in philosophy, math, and computer science departments, _not_ law school (unless proof theory, constructive type theory, recursion theory, etc have suddenly become hot topics in law schools). Your constant harping on your profession basically amounts to a pretty feeble argument by authority (your own). -Michael -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
tomjtx wrote: Robin, Do you have a way to easily convert ALAC to FLAC? ALAC, I mean, alas no. You may be able to do it with Foobar2000, but I suspect you're on a Mac. dbPoweramp can do it, but again, that's Pc-based. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t49757.html http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t45497.html Max seems to be able to do it: http://sbooth.org/Max/ Do you have OS-X Tiger (10.4) ? HTH, R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
totoro;169128 Wrote: DBPoweramp will do it for a whole tree. I recently did it. I _did_ have a problem with some files that I ripped after my most recent itunes update. Some of these I _was_ able to transcode using foobar's converter. Others I had to re-rip. This makes me wonder a bit about what exactly went into that last itunes upgrade. Michael, can you remember what version of iTunes you upgraded from? And what are you on now? What was the problem? I'm on iTunes 7.0.1.8 - I just tried converting a single track from ALAC- FLAC with dBpowerAMP and it seems OK. Steve. -- SteveEast SteveEast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4193 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
I'm on 7.0.2.16 now. Sorry, but I don't actually remember what version I upgraded from. The dbpoweramp problem was a little mysterious to me. I used the file selector, started it up, saw it working ok, and went away. When I came back and looked at the log file, I found that dbpoweramp had been unable to open about 10% of the total. These were all fairly recent rips (since I upgraded). _Some_ of the newer rips were fine. The log messages weren't terribly informative, for example: The file 'F:\iTunes\ITunes Music\Steve Bernstein\Diaspora Blues\04 Commentary 1.m4a' could not be opened. These files played fine in itunes, on my ipod, and on my sb3. _Some_ of them could be converted using foobar, some couldn't. I can't really say what caused this. Perhaps something about the wa y the newer itunes saved this stuff was incompatible with the alac converter for dbpoweramp-- I have no real idea why this happened, though, that's obviously a wild guess. -- totoro squeezebox 3 - mccormack dna .5 - audio physic tempo 4 totoro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
I bought a third generation iPod as soon as the product was released. The experience put me off Apple for life. I am now almost psychopathically averse to anything white with rounded corners (yes, even my fridge gives me the shakes). MC -- ModelCitizen Now what? Transporter Naim NAP 250 PMC OB1s. Music catalog: http://modelcitizen.mine.nu/music.txt ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
and the iPhone looks neat. I wonder how the handheld or nokia skins would work well on it? -- Matt B Matt .flac - SlimServer 6.5.1 2 - Linux ClarkConnect 4.0 - Shuttle SK21G - SB3 - Moth passive pre-amp monoblocs - ProAC Tablette II Matt B's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6215 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Matt B;168668 Wrote: and the iPhone looks neat. I wonder how the handheld or nokia skins would work well on it? They should work well - it's a full Web 2.0 browser. Mind you $499 plus 2 year contract to Cingular for a remote is a bit steep! (yes I know it does a lot more than that for the money) The Nokia 800 still looks the better bet. My main gripe with it is the need for a new HD TV, I wish it had RGB so you could attach a cheap monitor. It does have optical out, so use of an external DAC is on the cards, and it suppports Apple Lossless, so I'll be keen to read some reviews of the audio side. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
The sooner Apple takes over the word the better...did anyone see Bill Gates speech at the CES. That guy makes my skin crawl!! -- Andyoz Andyoz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4864 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Andyoz;168671 Wrote: The sooner Apple takes over the word the better...did anyone see Bill Gates speech at the CES. That guy makes my skin crawl!! Steve Jobs is as bad as Bill. But at least with Apple, you get great design. -- tomsi42 SB3, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact, Kimber Kable 4TC and Timbre. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Since Apple refused to honor the warranty on my son's Ipod Nano, citing external damage for a barely perceptible depression on the back of the unit, there will be no more Apple for us. Based upon the numerous apologies from the Apple CSR, it is clear that I am not alone. If the device cannot withstand normal wear and tear, then sell it at a price relecting its disposable nature. Or do not, but I am not buying. Throw in lossy, DRMed Itunes, Isn't it ironic that Apple is to the personal media player market what Microsoft is to the personal computer software market? -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
I think both the TV and iPhone miss the mark. There are numerous solutions that do what the AppleTV does, and the iPhone is way too expensive for what it does. Although, I agree with the above poster that a nice SlimServer skin would make it more appealing, in that it could be used as a Wi-Fi remote. -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
I think it looks like it could be a pretty cool product. The real power of it is in the easy syncing built in. I do have a couple of questions that I want answered before I drop $300 for it: 1. Can you have video out the HDMI at the same time as audio out the Optical connector? Most TVs only have 2 pathetic speakers. 2. I don't think this is the case, but can you play movies/music etc (that are on the devices HDD) without a computer on (providing DRM management?)? 3. What is the USB port for? Can you attach additional storage? -- Juggler Juggler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
But when you calm down, is it really good value? What does it do that a £300 laptop won't - and that will be much more flexible. What we need are home servers that work like blade servers, happy to feed thin client devices. Get wifi thin clients around the house, doing audio, video, games and more - the Apple is only half a solution. Given the lack of support for content in the way I want it - my recordings from my PCTV card, my FLAC files and my games - I shan't be bothering. It's nice, however, that Apple is going in this direction. Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
adamslim;168711 Wrote: Given the lack of support for content in the way I want it - my recordings from my PCTV card, my FLAC files and my games - I shan't be bothering. It's nice, however, that Apple is going in this direction. Agreed. When I first heard about Apple's new product, I thought it sounded pretty good. And it does sound good, until you realize that, like the Ipod, it would require buying into Apple's proprietary nonsense. I too prefer genuinely lossless compression (FLAC), and I like flexibility, etc. When you buy an Apple product, you're paying to have your choices limited. To that I say, phooey. Chris -- benthos benthos's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2556 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
Pray, do expound upon how FLAC is superior to Apple Lossless (which is not lossy)? Or AIFF, which is not lossy and uncompressed, for that matter? One point people seem to be missing is this: Apple has moved forward with 802.11n. All these problems with Squeezebox/Transporter drop-outs? History. And, yes, you can run component video to a TV screen and, say, Toslink to your DAC. Actually, it is quite a robust system. Of course, there are people who despise Apple, so that's fine. Rest assured that almost every Apple user is even more appalled, and with good reason, by Microsoft. benthos;168781 Wrote: Agreed. When I first heard about Apple's new product, I thought it sounded pretty good. And it does sound good, until you realize that, like the Ipod, it would require buying into Apple's proprietary nonsense. I too prefer genuinely lossless compression (FLAC), and I like flexibility, etc. When you buy an Apple product, you're paying to have your choices limited. To that I say, phooey. Chris -- lafayette Sweet Home Alabama lafayette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
PS, It galls me a bit that people complain about DRM protections and make Apple out to be this corporate monster. This is a matter of intellectual property rights. You know, just like that the law that bars you from making copies of CDs and selling them to your friends. Of course, there is almost no way to enforce the latter. In the case of the iTunes store, Apple and the record companies have come up with a good way, almost, of protecting copyrighted material. More power to them. It is a good law, the industry is in trouble, and I don't hold these efforts, any more than I held the efforts to stop Internet sharing, against them. So, you don't like DRM-protected music? There is an easy solution! Go to a music store! Log into Amazon and buy from the comfort of your home (I've spent thousands, literally, on Amazon in the last year alone). Feeling broke? Looking for something obscure? Go to your library! Borrow CDs! Inter-library loans work quite well! I have successfully, and I admit illegally, copied, well, let's just say many CDs checked out from public and academic libraries. Stop complaining. If you don't like lossy, protected music from an Internet store, then avail yourself of commercial and public alternatives -- which happen to be far richer. -- lafayette Sweet Home Alabama lafayette's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
lafayette;168783 Wrote: Pray, do expound upon how FLAC is superior to Apple Lossless (which is not lossy)? Or AIFF, which is not lossy and uncompressed, for that matter? FLAC works on all major and most minor platforms. It is Free and Open. Apple Lossless is not. (I say most because there isn't a CP/M 2.2 port of FLAC. Modern systems should have no problem with it, though.) One point people seem to be missing is this: Apple has moved forward with 802.11n. All these problems with Squeezebox/Transporter drop-outs? History. 802.11n is a) just a draft and subject to change, and b) does not make wireless networking perfect. Actually, it is quite a robust system. Of course, there are people who despise Apple, so that's fine. Rest assured that almost every Apple user is even more appalled, and with good reason, by Microsoft. or those of us who question everything. How do you know it is a robust system when you haven't used it? Just because Bill Gates or Steve Jobs says something is good doesn't make it so. Trust no-one: use FLAC. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
lafayette;168786 Wrote: It galls me a bit that people complain about DRM protections and make Apple out to be this corporate monster. If the shoe fits, as they say.. This is a matter of intellectual property rights. That's where you and I part paths: it's about my property, not Apple's, or anyone else's. So, you don't like DRM-protected music? There is an easy solution! Go to a music store! Log into Amazon and buy from the comfort of your home (I've spent thousands, literally, on Amazon in the last year alone). Goody for you. I like your solution though, as that's precisely what I do. And when I say that FLAC is lossless, the only reason I raise the issue is because Apple's codec, as I understand it, is not actually lossless. Chris -- benthos benthos's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2556 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
lafayette;168786 Wrote: This is a matter of intellectual property rights. You know, just like that the law that bars you from making copies of CDs and selling them to your friends. Your post started so well, but while I was hoping you were going to go into a long winded speech about time/place shifting and update us on what exactly the current US laws say about digital copies for home use (didn't you say you were a lawyer?), you instead confess theft! Going to the library is just hedonistic. You don't need that much music! -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
ezkcdude;168698 Wrote: I think both the TV and iPhone miss the mark. There are numerous solutions that do what the AppleTV does, and the iPhone is way too expensive for what it does. Although, I agree with the above poster that a nice SlimServer skin would make it more appealing, in that it could be used as a Wi-Fi remote. The iPhone is very very pretty: but in practice I think it will suck. The nice big buttonless display is good until you a) press buttons and get it all greasy and fingerprinted or b) press it against your cheek, especially for women that wear makeup. But it is pretty: just not practical in real life wear people have a lot of oil on their skin. Keeping my cell phone displays clean is a pain in the neck enough... forcing me to paw it all the time is asking for smears. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
benthos;168790 Wrote: If the shoe fits, as they say.. That's where you and I part paths: it's about my property, not Apple's, or anyone else's. Goody for you. I like your solution though, as that's precisely what I do. And when I say that FLAC is lossless, the only reason I raise the issue is because Apple's codec, as I understand it, is not actually lossless. Chris I believe ALAC , or Apple lossless is lossless and has the exact same end result as FLAC. The only difference is that FLAC is open source. ALAC: Apple Lossless Audio Codec FLAC: Free Lossless Audio Codec I completely agree with you that it's my property once I buy it. This whole DRM thing should be a major consumer concern...but most people seem to be unaware of the limitations DRM puts on our purchase. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31480 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: AppleTV
tomjtx wrote: benthos;168790 Wrote: That's where you and I part paths: it's about my property, not Apple's, or anyone else's. I completely agree with you that it's my property once I buy it. This whole DRM thing should be a major consumer concern...but most people seem to be unaware of the limitations DRM puts on our purchase. Sadly, this thread is going off topic. And it gets complicated quickly. IANAL... The legal terms on a CD are not what people think. You do not own the CD's music. You only own the right to listen to it. Buying a CD gives you only limited rights to use the music, you can not, for example, put the wave files up on the internet. Sony, last year put out a number of CDs with DRM on them, which is fairly bad, but much worse was that Sony put them out without labeling that the CDs were not really CDs, per the RedBook spec. Video licensing is even less well understood that music, as bandwidth to share videos has not been around and commonplace as long as bandwidth to share music. It is correct that today, neither Microsoft nor Apple include DRM in their mainline products. But Microsoft's Play-for-sure was a DRM. And Apple is in bed with Disney, a major creator of movies. So one should be careful extrapolating from today's Apple and Microsoft products. It is impossible to tell, but if the Sony CD DRM had not been badly implemented, and had not been labeled a rootkit by folks strongly against all DRM, perhaps all CDs sold today would have the same sorts of protection as Sony tried to sell. Be careful with broad statements about its my property because the law is not as clear or settled as people think. It is possible that Apple and/or Microsoft will add DRM to their formats. It is not possible that FLAC will ever add it, as the goal of FLAC precludes it. Just as there is nothing to prevent someone from making a package that has better compression than FLAC and calls it something like AlmostFree lossless audio codec. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
