Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Ben Diss;191022 Wrote: Thinking about this some more I wondered if the RF interference might be a problem for some systems and not for others. I run balanced from the DAC to the preamp to the amp. Maybe my system is immune? -Ben This is most likely the case. Seems, for exmple, that TacT RCS equipment is generally sensitive to EMF noise issues. Potentially any type of equipment can be sensitive however. Let's just stress that a negative AB or ABX means very little. Certainly proves nothing in the general sense. -- P Floding No, I didn't ABX it. And I won't even if you ask me. (Especially not if you ask me.) P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
P Floding;191291 Wrote: This is most likely the case. Seems, for exmple, that TacT RCS equipment is generally sensitive to EMF noise issues. Potentially any type of equipment can be sensitive however. Let's just stress that a negative AB or ABX means very little. Certainly proves nothing in the general sense. Agreed, but let's also stipulate that it does prove that the SPECIFIC subject of the test CURRENTLY cannot discern an audible difference. Note the emphasis, as it says nothing about other subjects or even that subject in the future. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
jeffmeh wrote: P Floding;191291 Wrote: Let's just stress that a negative AB or ABX means very little. Certainly proves nothing in the general sense. Agreed, but let's also stipulate that it does prove that the SPECIFIC subject of the test CURRENTLY cannot discern an audible difference. Note the emphasis, as it says nothing about other subjects or even that subject in the future. Statistical testing never says anything about specific people or samples, and only addresses probabilities in general. Well, we could say that at the time of the test, that specific person found X. But it says nothing about whether they would fix X again if tested again, or if they would find Y. What random testing does is expect that people would in general be 'right' 50% of the time, just like guessing a fair coin flip. That you test and find 10 heads in a row does not mean that the coin was rigged (unfair) there is a non-zero probability that will happen in a fair random test. The proper phrasing is to say the null hypothesis is that there is no difference detectable by listening to a SB3 versus a SB3 feeding a Larvy and then say that in our testing, we reject the null hypothesis with a confidence level of 95% (or 99% or whatever you want). Meaning that we are 95% sure that there is an audible difference. Difference does not always mean better. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Pat Farrell;191340 Wrote: jeffmeh wrote: P Floding;191291 Wrote: Let's just stress that a negative AB or ABX means very little. Certainly proves nothing in the general sense. Agreed, but let's also stipulate that it does prove that the SPECIFIC subject of the test CURRENTLY cannot discern an audible difference. Note the emphasis, as it says nothing about other subjects or even that subject in the future. Well, we could say that at the time of the test, that specific person found X. But it says nothing about whether they would fix X again if tested again, or if they would find Y. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html Is that not the gist of what I said? All a negative test indicates is that the subject could not discern an audible difference in that test. To make a broader general conclusion would be incorrect, but to dismiss this outcome as meaningless would also be incorrect. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
jeffmeh;191342 Wrote: Is that not the gist of what I said? All a negative test indicates is that the subject could not discern an audible difference in that test. To make a broader general conclusion would be incorrect, but to dismiss this outcome as meaningless would also be incorrect. And it should also be pointed out that a positive result is just as dangerous to generalize. A positive result provides some level of confidence in the assertion that the subject could hear a difference - but this could, among many possibilities, be due to incorrectly matched volumes, a clicking sound during switching, or to a more interesting audible difference between the sources. Statements like P Floding Wrote: Let's just stress that a negative AB or ABX means very little. Certainly proves nothing in the general sense. are empty. Nothing proves anything in the general sense - all results, both positive and negative, help us build a set of hypotheses and narrow in on the correct ones, but in no case can we prove them beyond any doubt. That's just the way it goes - most people get past the stage of demanding absolute proof at a pretty young age - or become mathematicians :-). -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
jeffmeh wrote: Is that not the gist of what I said? All a negative test indicates is that the subject could not discern an audible difference in that test. To make a broader general conclusion would be incorrect, but to dismiss this outcome as meaningless would also be incorrect. Yes, of course, I was agreeing with you and expanding it. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
opaqueice wrote: beyond any doubt. That's just the way it goes - most people get past the stage of demanding absolute proof at a pretty young age - or become mathematicians :-). Perhaps that is why I switched from Engineering to Mathematics as a senior in undergraduate school. Of course, proving something to a Mathematician is far harder than proving something to an audiophile. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Pat Farrell;191340 Wrote: jeffmeh wrote: P Floding;191291 Wrote: Let's just stress that a negative AB or ABX means very little. Certainly proves nothing in the general sense. Agreed, but let's also stipulate that it does prove that the SPECIFIC subject of the test CURRENTLY cannot discern an audible difference. Note the emphasis, as it says nothing about other subjects or even that subject in the future. Statistical testing never says anything about specific people or samples, and only addresses probabilities in general. Well, we could say that at the time of the test, that specific person found X. But it says nothing about whether they would fix X again if tested again, or if they would find Y. What random testing does is expect that people would in general be 'right' 50% of the time, just like guessing a fair coin flip. That you test and find 10 heads in a row does not mean that the coin was rigged (unfair) there is a non-zero probability that will happen in a fair random test. The proper phrasing is to say the null hypothesis is that there is no difference detectable by listening to a SB3 versus a SB3 feeding a Larvy and then say that in our testing, we reject the null hypothesis with a confidence level of 95% (or 99% or whatever you want). Meaning that we are 95% sure that there is an audible difference. Difference does not always mean better. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html Sounds pretty. However, it is meaningless given that we do not have the perfect system to test components in. I.e your null hypotheses is incomplete. -- P Floding No, I didn't ABX it. And I won't even if you ask me. (Especially not if you ask me.) P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
P Floding wrote: However, it is meaningless given that we do not have the perfect system to test components in. I.e your null hypotheses is incomplete. If your null hypothesis is badly written, you are totally correct the whole expensive process proves nothing. But you don't have to have perfection to start. Many (most?) drug tests give drugs to sick people, and just want to prove that the drug fixed one thing, not that it made them all as healthy as a 21 year old Marine. And many tests are badly worded, there has been a lot of lawsuits because a drug claimed: This will help you lose weight when the null hypothesis should have been helps people lose weight at the cost of an increased chance of heart attacks Stereophile and others claim that AB testing just shows that some people can detect that something sounds different, which is not very interesting. What you want to be able to test is a null hypothesis of: a SB3 sounds as good as a SB3 feeding a Larvy If you get 10 people to prove that by selecting the Larvy as better in ten out of 15 tests, you have something. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
jeffmeh wrote: Ah, I must have misinterpreted your tone. My apologies. No problem, accepted, etc. Tone is one of the hard things to convey in email/usenet Solve that one, and you'll get rich -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Ben Diss;191022 Wrote: To test this, I had played my favorite test track, Hotel California, through the SB3/Elpac/Lavry and asked my wife to randomly unplug and then plug in the power supply from the wall. We did this ten times and I could not tell the difference in any test. Yes, thats the kind of test I was thinking of. I think you've just confirmed your finding! To go one step further, knowing that I have very clean power and a dead black background I played a test track of all zeros representing silence. I turned the volume up all the way and as usual I heard nothing, absolutely nothing. I plugged in the stock SB power supply and I heard no change. I'm not so sure about this test - I think it demonstrates that, in your system, there's no noise from the PSU getting in after the DAC stage. There is at least a possibility, however, that the (remember they were subtle) changes reported by some people are in the digital domain, inducing jitter for example, which might have the affect of altering the quality of audio without changing the blackness of the background. Thinking about this some more I wondered if the RF interference might be a problem for some systems and not for others. Personally I think we've seen enough reports to have a decent working hypothesis here - there are plenty of systems, including yours, where a linear PSU makes no difference at all, and there are others where the PSU noise is having some sort of effect. Ceejay. -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
andy_c;191035 Wrote: Here's a couple of links to posts describing some experiments that Dan Banquer did with a Squeezebox and an AM radio to check for EMI. http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=30075.0 http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=30207.0 In Dan's case, he was using an external DAC, and by replacing the RCA cable between Squeezebox and DAC with a TosLink cable, he was able to fix the problem. Interesting, thanks for those. My limited experiments suggested to me that the noise in my case was being radiated by the output power lead from the PSU (adding a ferrite core at the PSU end significantly reduced the noise). I think the moral of the tale is that noise, once it exists, can get from A to B via several routes! Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Ben Diss;190880 Wrote: I'll cut to the chase. I can't tell any difference between the power supplies and the Lavry sounds great. Ben, Nice job and thanks for sharing the results. I do have one comment/question about the results. My experience has been that the stock SB3 switching power supply can degrade the sound of my system just by being plugged even if its not powering an SB3, presumably by dumping switching noise onto the AC line which somehow gets into other equipment. So I'm wondering if you ever tried the experiment with the SB3 switching supply unplugged when doing power supply comparisons? Thanks, ---Gary -- GaryB GaryB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Hey Ben, Thanks for posting such a nice and detailed writeup. Your conclusions on the power supply match mine (and yes, I unplugged the switcher when listening to the linear). What you say about the Lavry is also very interesting - it's something I've been thinking about trying out for a while now. I do have one annoying little concern that I can't help asking about - when you compared the Lavry to the stock SB, did you by any chance match the volume? The reason I ask is that not all DACs will output quite the same analogue level, and small differences in volume can sometimes get in the way of hearing real differences. Of course this isn't an issue for the PS comparison, where *any* difference (including level) would be interesting. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
I'm not Ben, and I don't have a Lavry but I've been thinking about trying out for a while now. I do have one annoying little concern that I can't help asking about - when you compared the Lavry to the stock SB, did you by any chance match the volume? The reason I ask is that not all DACs will output quite the same analogue level, and small differences in volume can sometimes get in the way of hearing real differences. When I plugged in my Benchmark DAC-1 out of my SqueezeBox, I was totally blown away by the sound. Of course, it was not at the same volume level. And it is well known that louder sounds are interperted as better by human hearing. To do any fair comparison, you have to match gain exactly. I think within 0.1 dB is normal, which is fairly challenging to do. I did adjust my Benchmark, it has jumpers for gross adjustments, and fine 10 turn pots for detail adjustments. It is still vastly better than the SB output, IMHO. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Great post , Ben. Thanks for the info Tom -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
opaqueice;190908 Wrote: Hey Ben, Thanks for posting such a nice and detailed writeup. Your conclusions on the power supply match mine (and yes, I unplugged the switcher when listening to the linear). What you say about the Lavry is also very interesting - it's something I've been thinking about trying out for a while now. I do have one annoying little concern that I can't help asking about - when you compared the Lavry to the stock SB, did you by any chance match the volume? The reason I ask is that not all DACs will output quite the same analogue level, and small differences in volume can sometimes get in the way of hearing real differences. Of course this isn't an issue for the PS comparison, where *any* difference (including level) would be interesting. Good question and I should have spelled that out. I used a 1 khz test tone and my Radio Shack analog sound meter to match the volume on all three test systems. The preamp has an adjustment factor for each input so it was really easy to switch back and forth between them. -Ben -- Ben Diss 'SB3' (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html) - 'Lavry DA10' (http://www.lavryengineering.com/productspage_da_10.html) - 'BAT VK-31SE' (http://www.balanced.com/products/line/Vk-31SE/index.html) - 'Halo A21' (http://www.parasound.com/halo/a21.php) - 'BW 803D' (http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/label/Model%20803D) Ben Diss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Ben Diss;190934 Wrote: Good question and I should have spelled that out. I used a 1 khz test tone and my Radio Shack analog sound meter to match the volume on all three test systems. The preamp has an adjustment factor for each input so it was really easy to switch back and forth between them. Great - thanks for the response. That makes your results all the more interesting. It's really great to see people doing proper tests like this - it's really not so difficult, as you've illustrated. And at least personally I find it very satisfying to know which are the changes that actually matter. So we have at least one solid data point - the Lavry DA10 sounds different, and better than, the stock SB analogue outs. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Ben Diss;190888 Wrote: OK, so is all of this in my head? I asked my wife to come and help. She sat in front of the premap so I couldn't see what was being played. She switched between the three inputs and wrote down what was played and what I said I heard. There were only a couple of songs where I had to guess and I guessed wrong. My average was 90% correct on the Lavry. As for the power supplies, I could never hear a difference and every time I guessed. Listening to every piece and switching I almost never had any doubt about the Lavry and never, ever had a clue which power supply I was listening to. So now I wondered what the average listener could hear. Could the wife hear what I was hearing? This time I sat in front of the preamp and she got the easy chair. I had described for her what I was hearing and she thought she could hear it too, although not always. Her average picking out the Lavry was 74%. She couldn't hear any difference between the power supplies either. My conclusion is that the power supply in my rig makes no difference and the Lavry adds detail otherwise missing from the stock SB3. -Ben Wonderful, thorough write-up and the sort of really interesting stuff I'd love to see on the audiophile forum all the time. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Ben Diss;190935 Wrote: Gary- I did not unplug it, however it is plugged into a completely different outlet. You need to be aware that it is suspected, by me at least, that the nasty stuff is airborne transmitted, not carried via mains. So a safer test would have been to unplug completely. For next time, perhaps... Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Cheers Ben - Good Reading :) -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
ceejay;190982 Wrote: You need to be aware that it is suspected, by me at least, that the nasty stuff is airborne transmitted, not carried via mains. So a safer test would have been to unplug completely. For next time, perhaps... Ceejay Just out of curiosity, do you unplug all such devices throughout your home while listening to the music. I mean, there must be at least 10 of them in typical NA household. -- slimkid The sound stage will open up, bass will tighten and the imaging will improve. DVD performance will also increase substantially. slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
Ben Diss;190934 Wrote: Good question and I should have spelled that out. I used a 1 khz test tone and my Radio Shack analog sound meter to match the volume on all three test systems. The preamp has an adjustment factor for each input so it was really easy to switch back and forth between them. Nice work Ben, especially on the level matching. It's neat that your BAT preamp has individual level controls for the inputs. I had heard of this with home theater processors, but I didn't realize that any high end audio preamps had this feature. -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3128 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
slimkid;190991 Wrote: Just out of curiosity, do you unplug all such devices throughout your home while listening to the music. I mean, there must be at least 10 of them in typical NA household. Nope, but then again when I'm listening normally to music I'm not also trying to make a carefully controlled experiment to see whether the PSU has any effect. My direct experience with an SB stock PSU is that it throws out crud with a range of several feet - so similar devices on the other side of the house aren't likely to bother me, just the ones near my important gear. I had to buy a Linear PSU for one of my SB2's because the stock unit made the Tivoli One radio, to which the SB is attached, completely and utterly unusable. I surmise - can't say anything stronger than that - that the same EMI that is killing my radio might also explain some of the less dramatic sound degradation effects that *some* users have reported. Oh, and of course, not being in a NA household everything must be different for me :) Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 vs SB3/Elpac vs SB3/Lavry
ceejay;190982 Wrote: You need to be aware that it is suspected, by me at least, that the nasty stuff is airborne transmitted, not carried via mains. So a safer test would have been to unplug completely. For next time, perhaps... Ceejay Ceejay- I thought about this some more and came up with a way to test for this. If the stock power supply is throwing off RF that effects the other components, disconnecting the power supply while listening to the other SB should reveal a difference. To test this, I had played my favorite test track, Hotel California, through the SB3/Elpac/Lavry and asked my wife to randomly unplug and then plug in the power supply from the wall. We did this ten times and I could not tell the difference in any test. To go one step further, knowing that I have very clean power and a dead black background I played a test track of all zeros representing silence. I turned the volume up all the way and as usual I heard nothing, absolutely nothing. I plugged in the stock SB power supply and I heard no change. Thinking about this some more I wondered if the RF interference might be a problem for some systems and not for others. I run balanced from the DAC to the preamp to the amp. Maybe my system is immune? Then I remembered that I'm running standard interconnects from the SB/Elpac to the preamp and I was testing the digital black with the Lavry. So, I switched input and repeated the test. Still however, no difference. At least on my system, the power supply makes no difference. -Ben -- Ben Diss 'SB3' (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html) - 'Lavry DA10' (http://www.lavryengineering.com/productspage_da_10.html) - 'BAT VK-31SE' (http://www.balanced.com/products/line/Vk-31SE/index.html) - 'Halo A21' (http://www.parasound.com/halo/a21.php) - 'BW 803D' (http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/label/Model%20803D) Ben Diss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33986 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
