Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
Hmmm - I am trying to work out a solution that will allow me to stream music files from my PC upstairs over wireless and preferably without loss of audio quality - the SB Touch in terms of size and convenience would have fit the bill nicely. However, what about the new NAD DAC-1, that looks interesting and is geared up for high quality uncompressed wireless streaming. Whereas it does have a DAC incorporated I will probably use it as a bridge to my own DAC because it has SPDIF out. -- stop-spinning stop-spinning's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43254 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
Somebody ought to set up a feature comparison table between the Touch and various other streamers like the NAD. Wouldn't the wiki be perfect for that? -- Soulkeeper Noise Music Silence Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;696100 Wrote: Hmmm - I am trying to work out a solution that will allow me to stream music files from my PC upstairs over wireless and preferably without loss of audio quality - the SB Touch in terms of size and convenience would have fit the bill nicely. However, what about the new NAD DAC-1, that looks interesting and is geared up for high quality uncompressed wireless streaming. Whereas it does have a DAC incorporated I will probably use it as a bridge to my own DAC because it has SPDIF out. I may be missing your point, but the SB TOUCH can ALSO do high quality uncompressed WIFI streaming. -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) LMS 7.7.1 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) LMS 7.7.1 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.7.1 SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;696100 Wrote: Hmmm - I am trying to work out a solution that will allow me to stream music files from my PC upstairs over wireless and preferably without loss of audio quality - the SB Touch in terms of size and convenience would have fit the bill nicely. However, what about the new NAD DAC-1, that looks interesting and is geared up for high quality uncompressed wireless streaming. Whereas it does have a DAC incorporated I will probably use it as a bridge to my own DAC because it has SPDIF out. Apparently, the NAD supports audio sample rates only up to 48/16, according to the NAD site. And it has no display. The SBT supports rates up to 96/24 and has a display. Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge-Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player-Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance-WiFi Bridge-Squeezebox Touch-Toslink-Cambridge Azur 840C DAC-Adcom GFP-750 preamp-Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp - Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033-REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)-Little Dot Mk III amp-AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch-Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
darrenyeats;695950 Wrote: About your comment about the integrity of the digital data - I agree but you mention it for ethernet and of course the comment applies equally to wifi. The question about wifi AND ethernet is about noise which might affect the player, not data. Point taken. Although actually, for some of the fringe on this forum the question is also about how the noise will affect the data over ethernet. Personally, considering the distance, floors, walls, switches, etc that come between the computer and the SBs, I'll take my chances on an electrically noisy computer affecting either the data or the player. :-) -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
aubuti;695809 Wrote: Yes there's RFI everywhere, but some believe that the RFI is more damaging to SQ if one of the RFI sources (the Touch's antenna) is inside the same little box as the DAC, CPU, etc. Inverse square law and all that. As for directly connected to an electrically noisy computer, well, that shouldn't affect the integrity of the digital data that gets sent down the ethernet cable. About your comment about the integrity of the digital data - I agree but you mention it for ethernet and of course the comment applies equally to wifi. The question about wifi AND ethernet is about noise which might affect the player not data. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;695608 Wrote: If this is the case, then why is wireless discouraged for sound quality reasons? Surely this the best way to isolate an electrically noisy computer source from the likes of a PC for example (assuming the simplicity of the SB Touch is much more electrically quieter than an all out monster gaming computer). Because people are idiots :) I'm surprised no-one has recommended filling rooms where the wireless signals travel with a different gas because it results in better sound quality. Of course you'd have to buy a gas mask because said gas would be toxic to breathe. This would then lead onto the sale of audiophile gas masks Or am I taking it too far? ;) -- probedb 'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb) probedb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7825 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;695608 Wrote: If this is the case, then why is wireless discouraged for sound quality reasons? 'RFI' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency_interference) is the reason usually stated. Many audiophiles will not operate a wireless network in their homes for the same reason. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
Yes but there's RFI everywhere - one more wireless connection won't make a difference surely? Anyway - whats the lesser of two evils - directly connected to an electrically noisy computer - or RFI (which is all around us anyway)? -- stop-spinning stop-spinning's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43254 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;695800 Wrote: Yes but there's RFI everywhere - one more wireless connection won't make a difference surely? Anyway - whats the lesser of two evils - directly connected to an electrically noisy computer - or RFI (which is all around us anyway)? Yes there's RFI everywhere, but some believe that the RFI is more damaging to SQ if one of the RFI sources (the Touch's antenna) is inside the same little box as the DAC, CPU, etc. Inverse square law and all that. As for directly connected to an electrically noisy computer, well, that shouldn't affect the integrity of the digital data that gets sent down the ethernet cable. Reasonable (and unreasonable) people differ on whether either of those matter. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
Yes Ethernet is isolated current loops unless you opt for shielded cat 6 then you must take care but shielded Ethernet is total overkill at home , just don't use that . And switches isolates further . There migth be some capacitive leakage bla bla but that's clutching at straws audiophile style . No Ethernet problems is going to give you congested midrange or less fluid treble :) you will have a real problem that would be very noticeable . -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
So in essence the musical data should be copied perfectly over wireless to the SB Touch from the source (just like when you copy a hi-res photo or video file from one computer to another and the image is still all there when viewed from the target PC without any loss whatsoever). If this is the case, then why is wireless discouraged for sound quality reasons? Surely this the best way to isolate an electrically noisy computer source from the likes of a PC for example (assuming the simplicity of the SB Touch is much more electrically quieter than an all out monster gaming computer). If the overheads of WPA encryption and decryption is stressing out the SB Touch then just send the Music over an open wireless network instead (as long as you don't send your credit card details over this same link). -- stop-spinning stop-spinning's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43254 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
If you have a reliable wireless connection then there should be no difference in the sound quality of a wired connection. Bits are bits. If you have a bad wireless environment you could experience dropouts in the music from buffer underruns. -- w3wilkes 2 Duets - 1 for upstairs and 1 for downstairs w3wilkes's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22973 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;695608 Wrote: If this is the case, then why is wireless discouraged for sound quality reasons? . Yeah why , indeed ;) these are opinions from audiphiles the same people that can argues that digital cables in silver sounds better or use shakti stones and you read in on the internet the foremost source of reliable unbiased information :) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;695608 Wrote: If this is the case, then why is wireless discouraged for sound quality reasons? Surely this the best way to isolate an electrically noisy computer source from the likes of a PC for example (assuming the simplicity of the SB Touch is much more electrically quieter than an all out monster gaming computer). Because some People like to bullshit around about SQ and also people always WANT to find something to optimize. It's the same type of nonsense as to decode lossless formats of the server, use specific OSs for your server or selling high-end power cables. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
In every streaming system (digital) the music is first copied to the target, it's being delivered in packets. However, the SB doesn't have to wait for the full 15s buffer to fill, it can start to play as soon as the first decidable packet is there (depends on the codec) and will fill the buffer in the background. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can anyone tell me how the wireless protocol works?
stop-spinning;695504 Wrote: I am interested in how the wireless protocol works with a Squeezebox Touch (or Duet I guess for that matter)? There is no 'wireless' protocol. The streaming protocol over the network is the same for both wired and wireless connections. I noticed when I used one some while back that there was a large buffer in the Duet - when I disconnected the wireless link to the computer - the Duet was playing for about 15 or so seconds afterwards - which seem to be a decent size buffer. Right, but the length of time the audio will play from the buffer will depend on the degree of compression of the data. It might be 15 seconds for WAV (PCM), or it might be a couple of minutes for MP3 at some low bitrate. So I just wondered - when playing music initiated from the Personal Computer, there is a slight delay before starting - so does music first get 'copied' to the Squeezebox over the wireless network - then once copied (which should be perfect if using TCP/IP and CRC checksums)- it then actually gets played from the copy on the SB itself? The buffer is prefilled to some degree (I think measured in bytes) before playback will begin. The faster the server and the network, the quicker this happens. And why a faster network connection (such as wired 100 Mbps ethernet) will be more reliable. If there's a network or server interruption, the faster network allows the buffer to refill more quickly and avoid underruns. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94101 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
