Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
On 06/06/2017, DMcD and Mike Borgelt wrote: Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. And you? Please don't. Just... don't. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
>>It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job. >>I'm guessing you've never actually done any engineering or manufactured >>anything. You guess wrong. That's exactly what I do. I guess you don't work in any engineering where someone looks at your product and says do they really look like that? If so, we'll buy two sets…(These were NASA contract engineers with more PHDs than I have had hot dinners.) There's no reason why a machine should not look as good as it works other than the lack of imagination or laziness of the designer. There are plenty of cars and boats made in numbers as small as sailplanes, where great care is taken over every aspect of the design, not just the aerodynamic engineering. Take a look at most of the Jonkers products. Oh, and there are a few gliders which don't just use wheelbarrow handles on control columns. I guess you don't see enough modern gliders. >>Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. And you? D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Most aircraft designs are built in total numbers smaller than what a car manufacturer would put through the production line to debug the line. It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job. I'm guessing you've never actually done any engineering or manufactured anything. Academic, but not from any STEM fields who can't do physics or maths? Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. The vast majority of people in this place identify themselves. Mike At 10:01 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote: >>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more? Most cars costing more than say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is not just a cheap plastic moulding. It does not cost $50,000 extra to do that. A wheelbarrow handle is designed to be held like 'this' and an aircraft ccontrol column is designed to be held like 'that' diffeerent ergonomics. One is designed to be gripped hard and the other should not be. If you don't get the difference, have a look at the grip shape on any low-cost computer joystick. It does not look anything like a wheelbarrow or bicycle handle. As Macca points out, you can use the handle from a ski stock or a Norwegian walking stick or whatever they are called. At least they're designed to be held like 'that'. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Hi Tom, For knobs why not consider an arcade knob? (Many different colours too!) http://www.austinamusements.com.au/joysticks/joystick-knobs-choose-your-colour.html Regards Michael Texler -Original Message- From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Tom Wilksch Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 3:55 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Afternoon all Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles and trim knobs? Thanks Tom W ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more? Most cars costing more than say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is not just a cheap plastic moulding. It does not cost $50,000 extra to do that. A wheelbarrow handle is designed to be held like 'this'… and an aircraft control column is designed to be held like 'that'… different ergonomics. One is designed to be gripped hard and the other should not be. If you don't get the difference, have a look at the grip shape on any low-cost computer joystick. It does not look anything like a wheelbarrow or bicycle handle. As Macca points out, you can use the handle from a ski stock or a Norwegian walking stick or whatever they are called. At least they're designed to be held like 'that'. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Good engineering is when you don't re-invent the wheel every time. You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more? I knew a bloke in California once who owned a business making switches for the aerospace industry. He had a large range of standard products but when his salesmen showed these an aerospace company for their new project they were swept aside and a new set of custom switches specified and designed for every new aircraft/spacecraft. Cost plus contracts will do that. Gliding doesn't operate in that space. Mike At 02:52 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote: HA, Knobs etc and standard parts: http://www.ddbarry.com.au Mainly German. I note that you're making a PC control but I find it odd that one can spend the thick end of $250,000 on some new gliders and the physical connection between you and this beautiful thing is the handle off a wheelbarrow. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Thanks for all the replies, they have been very helpful. I should have been more specific, these are to be used on a PC control unit I'm putting together, rather than an actual aircraft. I don't think there are any good options for airbrakes and flaps at the moment when flying sims, so decided to come up with something myself Cheers Tom - Original Message - From: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." To:"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." Cc: Sent:Sun, 4 Jun 2017 20:52:38 +1000 Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Agree with Bob and bike grips The Germans often use blue handles off skiing stocks. The slot at back is for the strap. Also stick grips are black ski stock handles again with slot for strap. Sometimes a bit hard to find in some areas in Australia. At corner store in Germany. Some gliders like all Astir's use the black ski stocks but these can easily come off stick in flight. There is an AD on some models of astirs(not all but should Be) the the grip coming off. I always add a 3mm SS screw at base of grip as fools in the past have put their head through the canopy and then I had to flop some perspex and glue in a 30cm circle. Adding the screw before the head goes through canopy is much easier!! Ian McPhee 0428847642 Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481 Australia On 4 Jun 2017 19:38, "Bob Ward" wrote: Tom, Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job. Available from any bicycle retailer. Trim knobs? A little more difficult, unless you can describe the shape of the original. Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob. such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider facilities would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim knob. I hope this helps you. What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE. regards Bob Ward -Original Message- From: Tom Wilksch Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Afternoon all Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles and trim knobs? Thanks Tom W ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au [2] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring [3] ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au [4] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring [5] Links: -- [1] mailto:wendo...@westnet.com.au [2] mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au [3] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring [4] mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au [5] http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Exactly what I was looking for, thanks! It's not actually for an aircraft, I should have been more specific. It's for a PC control unit I'm putting together to replicate airbrakes and flaps, since I don't think anything good exists at the moment Cheers Tom - Original Message - From: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." To:"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." Cc: Sent:Sun, 4 Jun 2017 20:32:46 +0930 Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles I have used some from https://www.minibearings.com.au/store/categories/knobs+ball+categories/ Anthony -Original Message- From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Bob Ward Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Tom, Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job. Available from any bicycle retailer. Trim knobs? A little more difficult, unless you can describe the shape of the original. Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob. such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider facilities would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim knob. I hope this helps you. What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE. regards Bob Ward -Original Message- From: Tom Wilksch Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Afternoon all Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles and trim knobs? Thanks Tom W ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
I have used some from https://www.minibearings.com.au/store/categories/knobs+ball+categories/ Anthony -Original Message- From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Bob Ward Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Tom, Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job. Available from any bicycle retailer. Trim knobs? A little more difficult, unless you can describe the shape of the original. Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob. such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider facilities would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim knob. I hope this helps you. What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE. regards Bob Ward -Original Message- From: Tom Wilksch Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Afternoon all Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles and trim knobs? Thanks Tom W ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Agree with Bob and bike grips The Germans often use blue handles off skiing stocks. The slot at back is for the strap. Also stick grips are black ski stock handles again with slot for strap. Sometimes a bit hard to find in some areas in Australia. At corner store in Germany. Some gliders like all Astir's use the black ski stocks but these can easily come off stick in flight. There is an AD on some models of astirs(not all but should Be) the the grip coming off. I always add a 3mm SS screw at base of grip as fools in the past have put their head through the canopy and then I had to flop some perspex and glue in a 30cm circle. Adding the screw before the head goes through canopy is much easier!! Ian McPhee 0428847642 Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481 Australia On 4 Jun 2017 19:38, "Bob Ward" <wendo...@westnet.com.au> wrote: > Tom, > > Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job. > Available from any bicycle retailer. Trim knobs? A little more difficult, > unless you can describe the shape of the original. > Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal > insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could > produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob. > such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider > facilities > would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim > knob. I hope this helps you. > What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES > FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE. > > regards > Bob Ward > > -Original Message- From: Tom Wilksch > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles > > Afternoon all > > Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles > and trim knobs? > > Thanks > > Tom W > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Tom, Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job. Available from any bicycle retailer. Trim knobs? A little more difficult, unless you can describe the shape of the original. Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob. such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider facilities would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim knob. I hope this helps you. What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE. regards Bob Ward -Original Message- From: Tom Wilksch Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles Afternoon all Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles and trim knobs? Thanks Tom W ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
Afternoon all Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles and trim knobs? Thanks Tom W ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring