Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight / Maintance Manule - H301 LIbelle
Hi Ben, try: http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/technical/datasheets/libelle301and301b.pdf and this one has got for everyone else: http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/technical/datasheets/datasheets.pdf .. Erich On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 10:52, Ben Loxton wrote: > Hi All, > > Just a quick one, I am having trouble finding a copy of a flight / > maintenance manule for a H301 Open Libelle, and i was just wondering if > anyone would have a copy of one that they would be able to send me? (digital > form is fine) - or if anyone has contact details for a owner that might be > bale to help out? > > I mainly need the control deflection and mass balance informaiton for > now. > > Many thanks if anyone can help > > Kind Regards, > > Ben > > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Just for some added information from the coalface.
We held a stall at the Bundaberg Air Show recently and so far have had a
member want to join for three months to try it out.
We do get a few of these and some continue on to full 12 month membership.
Kindest Regards
Grant Davies
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 8:38 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Basically agree with Stuart but suggestion would be
1 The 3 day membership be reintroduced BUT be for under 25 years old (we
record their day of birth) and be $10 (why should AAFC only get a
concessional rate from GFA and not Scouts or other young people)
2 The present 9day and one month GFA be joined together and restrictions on
flights/solo be removed - not certain on fee but $30 to $35
3 The present 3 month continue as is.BUT include one off posting of say 1
or 2 old Magazines and with brief letter or email invite them to rejoin GFA
for the full 12 months or better still UPGRADE your present 3mths to
12months for just $160 say - one off special deal and people like a good
deal. The 3 month fee could be $5 more for postage of magazine.
Just a thought Does anybody know what special rate AAFC get from GFA for
AEFs - I have asked the office but just get told they have a special
deal
Ian McPhee
0428847642
On 8 September 2011 07:19, Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON
wrote:
Gary,
The $30.00 fee represents a massive 50% increase!
Most clubs will just add it to the price of the AEI, for Aero-tow clubs this
represents about 5%,
but I feel for the winch launch clubs, this fee makes up a large piece of
the pricing pie. It also puts
clubs that hold an AOC in an interesting position, they finish up with two
products, one is the Joy Flight
and the other an AEI and the only cost structure difference is a fee applied
by the GFA; in our case we
cover the CASA fee to maintain the AOC for less per flight than GFA require
for an AEI flight; we hold an AOC
so we can openly market Joy Flights, we have several members who are or have
been employed by CASA and
we do not want them to be compromised.
My experience is that most AEI/Joy Flights are members of the public who
want to try gliding as part of the "Bucket List"
Some have said so in so many words. Only a minority of AEIs are genuine
potential members. If the fee must be $30.00
what can package into it to give bang for the buck.
I propose the $30 buys a 60 Day temporary GFA membership (no magazine) with
no limits on the number of hours of flights taken.
Only a minority of AEIs will take advantage of this so the financial
outcomes change very little, and for the few who do go on the
become members this can only be good for the club, and the sport, and when
they are finally hooked discount and backdate their
GFA member to the date the temporary membership was taken out.
I would also propose we have a Junior Temporary membership to facilitate
Cadet, school and other youth group activities, this is a long
Term investment in the future; how many of our members have returned in
later life because they have memories of a flight they took
In their youth.
Gary can you take this proposal to the GFA AGM on my behalf?
Regards
Stuart
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of
gstev...@bigpond.com
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 2:31 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Cath,
Remember, that as things stand, this $30 fee gives the lucky AEF person 3
days membership of the GFA.
I therefore suggest to you that it is a measure of YOUR club's nous, as to
how you market this. Hint - the more you winch launches you give, the
cheaper (on average), each individual flight becomes. You mention 2-3
flights. With better planning and application I am sure this number could be
substantially increased, especially over the 2 days of a weekend. For
example when there is no lift, the AEF person does 6 winch launches @ $6 per
launch plus glider hire at 50 cents per minute with each flight lasting 5
minutes, my maths says that costs total $81, which means you can also add at
least $20 - $30 for your trouble! Grand total $111. Not a big deal. {You
might almost have an adept person solo after this many flights! Ha ha.}
If there is lift around then there is no reason why the winch launch should
not give an equivalent flight time to an aerotow launch. However I suggest
that the club may have to be a bit selective in just which pilot is selected
as PIC to do any particular flight, depending on conditions - like I say;
use a bit of nous!
If this is all too hard, then you could of course stop your
[Aus-soaring] Flight / Maintance Manule - H301 LIbelle
Hi All, Just a quick one, I am having trouble finding a copy of a flight / maintenance manule for a H301 Open Libelle, and i was just wondering if anyone would have a copy of one that they would be able to send me? (digital form is fine) - or if anyone has contact details for a owner that might be bale to help out? I mainly need the control deflection and mass balance informaiton for now. Many thanks if anyone can help Kind Regards, Ben ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding
Well said.
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 9:13 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding
Hi all,
At GCV in Benalla we have three levels of AEF ranging in price from $135 to
$235.
The vast majority of those who take them up buy the most expensive version,
and most make a 400km round trip from Melbourne for the experience.
It's not the price, it's the service. You can book online, and through
"gift" websites, receive vouchers that can be redeemed at a convenient time,
and we are very flexible about weather, cancellations and re-booking.
Personally, if I feel the passenger has not had full value I will offer to
take them for a second flight at my own expense. Quality and service is
remembered long after price is forgotten.
GCV gets few new members this way, but plenty of revenue, so we may as well
charge what the market will pay. Recruits come from those with a more
sporting interest, or who are already interested in gliding rather than
other types of aviation. Judging by our last season's crop, most of them
are hanging out for the cross-country course in November and wondering how
to get into the LS4 before then.
The current problems with gliding are caused by sticking to a business model
and organisational structure that was effective in the period up to about
1980. No other business which believed that would be around for long - why
do we?
Gliding does not appear to be "demising" at the top end of the sport. Read
the magazine if you don't believe that - almost every page is filled with
articles about competitions and high-tech (and yes, high cost) equipment.
The featured club at Lake Keepit makes its money from people who drive 400km
from Sydney, or who attend competitions and other events there. Every year
well-heeled gliding "tourists" arrive at Narromine, Corowa, Benalla and
other places with containers full of top end gliders. It's not all doom and
gloom.
You can learn to fly in a Tecnam (or a Blanik), but have you ever heard of a
World Championships for them? And in which other branch of aviation can you
fly a ASG29 or JS1, or anything even vaguely approaching them?
We need to sell our strengths (preferably to doctors and lawyers), and stop
lamenting a lost era. Perhaps in the future we'll have less members and
less small clubs, but a healthier sport. We need to face facts and finally
admit that we are no longer a cut price flying training outfit.
Cheers
Tim
tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare
On 8/09/2011 12:33, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote:
Hi Macca, JR, & All,
A couple of very nice postings, that gives some perspective, on this vexing
subject.
Yeah the AEF fee to GFA is large, but I have never heard of any AEF person
bucking about this. I very much suspect that much of this is because they
really don't understand just what is going on here (despite a briefing by an
experienced club member, and "signing their life away")! Possibly they are
focused on the goal, which is of course as it should be - to go flying.
However if you bother to read the communications from the GFA, you will find
that this fee has been set on the basis that "somebody" has to pay for the
administration of our sport. In a nutshell under the current thinking, if
the AEF people don't contribute, then it is YOU who must pay more. It is all
about balancing the books.
In the very short term, Macca's response now leads me to suggest the
following: Keep the AEF fee the same, but increase the 3 day membership to 3
months. { I suspect that the current number of 3 month memberships is VERY
low.} I haven't done any research here, but I bet that my proposal will not
make the slightest bit of difference to revenue collected, and JUST MAYBE it
might get the movement an additional member or ten which will of course
actually increase revenue a bit - but revenue raising is not - just to make
it crystal clear - the prime goal of the exercise.
However let me say once again, for about the hundredth time, that the basic
problem is political, and until the GFA board acknowledges this, and then
sets about seriously - lets start with say $500,000 seriously, expended on
this over the next few years - addressing this issue, this sport will
continue to slide, possibly into oblivion: Note again JR's comment about the
"little clubs" disappearing. This is of course followed by the "big clubs"
disappearing: QED!
It is very interesting that just one member of the gliding movement, (let
alone anyone on the board), has ever bothered to make comment on my
suggestion about a political solution to the problem, and that one comment
was not at all favourable. Are GFA members so lacking in foresight that they
cannot see the problem? I find this hard to believe, but then again, I guess
the Dodo d
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Stuart,
You subsidise the AOC fee for money making joy-flight activity which makes it
cheaper/same as potential member AEIs??
Odd, in my opinion.
Tom
From: Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Gary,
The $30.00 fee represents a massive 50% increase!
Most clubs will just add it to the price of the AEI, for Aero-tow clubs this
represents about 5%,
but I feel for the winch launch clubs, this fee makes up a large piece of the
pricing pie. It also puts
clubs that hold an AOC in an interesting position, they finish up with two
products, one is the Joy Flight
and the other an AEI and the only cost structure difference is a fee applied by
the GFA; in our case we
cover the CASA fee to maintain the AOC for less per flight than GFA require for
an AEI flight; we hold an AOC
so we can openly market Joy Flights, we have several members who are or have
been employed by CASA and
we do not want them to be compromised.
My experience is that most AEI/Joy Flights are members of the public who want
to try gliding as part of the “Bucket List”
Some have said so in so many words. Only a minority of AEIs are genuine
potential members. If the fee must be $30.00
what can package into it to give bang for the buck.
I propose the $30 buys a 60 Day temporary GFA membership (no magazine) with no
limits on the number of hours of flights taken.
Only a minority of AEIs will take advantage of this so the financial outcomes
change very little, and for the few who do go on the
become members this can only be good for the club, and the sport, and when they
are finally hooked discount and backdate their
GFA member to the date the temporary membership was taken out.
I would also propose we have a Junior Temporary membership to facilitate Cadet,
school and other youth group activities, this is a long
Term investment in the future; how many of our members have returned in later
life because they have memories of a flight they took
In their youth.
Gary can you take this proposal to the GFA AGM on my behalf?
Regards
Stuart
From:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of
gstev...@bigpond.com
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 2:31 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Cath,
Remember, that as things stand, this $30 fee gives the lucky AEF person 3 days
membership of the GFA.
I therefore suggest to you that it is a measure of YOUR club's nous, as to how
you market this. Hint - the more you winch launches you give, the cheaper (on
average), each individual flight becomes. You mention 2-3 flights. With better
planning and application I am sure this number could be substantially
increased, especially over the 2 days of a weekend. For example when there is
no lift, the AEF person does 6 winch launches @ $6 per launch plus glider hire
at 50 cents per minute with each flight lasting 5 minutes, my maths says
that costs total $81, which means you can also add at least $20 - $30 for your
trouble! Grand total $111. Not a big deal. {You might almost have an adept
person solo after this many flights! Ha ha.}
If there is lift around then there is no reason why the winch launch should
not give an equivalent flight time to an aerotow launch. However I suggest that
the club may have to be a bit selective in just which pilot is selected as PIC
to do any particular flight, depending on conditions - like I say; use a bit of
nous!
If this is all too hard, then you could of course stop your whingeing, and not
offer AEF's. You will be well aware that statistics show that AEF's serve
little purpose in attracting new members to a club.
However see my earlier post this evening, as to the real solution. With
adequate Federal funding to the GFA, the would be no requirement to charge more
than an acorn fee (say 5 cents) to your AEF person to join them up with the GFA
(This requirement for joining GFA is based on legal advice - but to my
knowledge has never been tested in court, so make of that what you will).
I suggest that you carefully read my earlier post, and think very carefully
about the many implications of my suggestions - and then do what you can to
bring about some positive change.
Gary
- Original Message -
>From:Catherine Conway
>To:AUS Soaring
>Sent:Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:47 AM
>Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
>
>I'm really disappointed with the $30 fee. Might be great for Aerotow clubs
>charging AEFs off the street at $150-$200 a flight. For a club that charges
>$6 launch and can do 5 min circuits if there is no lift and an AEF visitor
>generally only manages 2-3 flights. This means they pay more to GFA than we
>make for the flight! We
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding
Hi all,
At GCV in Benalla we have three levels of AEF ranging in price from $135
to $235.
The vast majority of those who take them up buy the most expensive
version, and most make a 400km round trip from Melbourne for the experience.
It's not the price, it's the service. You can book online, and through
"gift" websites, receive vouchers that can be redeemed at a convenient
time, and we are very flexible about weather, cancellations and
re-booking. Personally, if I feel the passenger has not had full value
I will offer to take them for a second flight at my own expense.
Quality and service is remembered long after price is forgotten.
GCV gets few new members this way, but plenty of revenue, so we may as
well charge what the market will pay. Recruits come from those with a
more sporting interest, or who are already interested in gliding rather
than other types of aviation. Judging by our last season's crop, most
of them are hanging out for the cross-country course in November and
wondering how to get into the LS4 before then.
The current problems with gliding are caused by sticking to a business
model and organisational structure that was effective in the period up
to about 1980. No other business which believed that would be around
for long - why do we?
Gliding does not appear to be "demising" at the top end of the sport.
Read the magazine if you don't believe that - almost every page is
filled with articles about competitions and high-tech (and yes, high
cost) equipment. The featured club at Lake Keepit makes its money from
people who drive 400km from Sydney, or who attend competitions and other
events there. Every year well-heeled gliding "tourists" arrive at
Narromine, Corowa, Benalla and other places with containers full of top
end gliders. It's not all doom and gloom.
You can learn to fly in a Tecnam (or a Blanik), but have you ever heard
of a World Championships for them? And in which other branch of
aviation can you fly a ASG29 or JS1, or anything even vaguely
approaching them?
We need to sell our strengths (preferably to doctors and lawyers), and
stop lamenting a lost era. Perhaps in the future we'll have less
members and less small clubs, but a healthier sport. We need to face
facts and finally admit that we are no longer a cut price flying
training outfit.
Cheers
/Tim/
/tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/
On 8/09/2011 12:33, gstev...@bigpond.com wrote:
Hi Macca, JR, & All,
A couple of very nice postings, that gives some perspective, on this
vexing subject.
Yeah the AEF fee to GFA is large, but I have never heard of any AEF
person bucking about this. I very much suspect that much of this is
because they really don't understand just what is going on here
(despite a briefing by an experienced club member, and "signing their
life away")! Possibly they are focused on the goal, which is of
course as it should be - to go flying.
However if you bother to read the communications from the GFA, you
will find that this fee has been set on the basis that "somebody" has
to pay for the administration of our sport. In a nutshell under the
current thinking, if the AEF people don't contribute, then it is YOU
who must pay more. It is all about balancing the books.
In the very short term, Macca's response now leads me to suggest the
following: Keep the AEF fee the same, but increase the 3 day
membership to 3 months. { I suspect that the current number of 3 month
memberships is VERY low.} I haven't done any research here, but I
bet that my proposal will not make the slightest bit of difference to
revenue collected, and JUST MAYBE it might get the movement an
additional member or ten which will of course actually increase
revenue a bit - but revenue raising is not - just to make it crystal
clear - the prime goal of the exercise.
However let me say once again, for about the hundredth time, that the
basic problem is political, and until the GFA board acknowledges this,
and then sets about seriously*- lets start with say $500,000
seriously, expended on this over the next few years - *addressing this
issue, this sport will continue to slide, possibly into oblivion: Note
again JR's comment about the "little clubs" disappearing. This is of
course followed by the "big clubs" disappearing: QED!
It is very interesting that *just one* member of the gliding movement,
(let alone anyone on the board), has ever bothered to make comment on
my suggestion about a political solution to the problem, and that one
comment was not at all favourable. Are GFA members so lacking in
foresight that they cannot see the problem? I find this hard to
believe, but then again, I guess the Dodo did not expect to become
extinct either!
Gliding administration is growing increasingly complex - read
increasingly more expensive. The Federal Government doles out a
pittance to the GFA to administer the sport. If you have missed my
earlier comment on the subje
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Basically agree with Stuart but suggestion would be
1 The 3 day membership be reintroduced BUT be for under 25 years old (we
record their day of birth) and be $10 (why should AAFC only get
a concessional rate from GFA and not Scouts or other young people)
2 The present 9day and one month GFA be joined together and restrictions on
flights/solo be removed - not certain on fee but $30 to $35
3 The present 3 month continue as is.BUT include one off posting of say 1
or 2 old Magazines and with brief letter or email invite them to rejoin GFA
for the full 12 months or better still UPGRADE your present 3mths to
12months for just $160 say - one off special deal and people like a good
deal. The 3 month fee could be $5 more for postage of magazine.
Just a thought Does anybody know what special rate AAFC get from GFA for
AEFs - I have asked the office but just get told they have a special
deal
Ian McPhee
0428847642
On 8 September 2011 07:19, Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON wrote:
> Gary,
>
> The $30.00 fee represents a massive 50% increase!
>
> ** **
>
> Most clubs will just add it to the price of the AEI, for Aero-tow clubs
> this represents about 5%,
>
> but I feel for the winch launch clubs, this fee makes up a large piece of
> the pricing pie. It also puts
>
> clubs that hold an AOC in an interesting position, they finish up with two
> products, one is the Joy Flight
>
> and the other an AEI and the only cost structure difference is a fee
> applied by the GFA; in our case we
>
> cover the CASA fee to maintain the AOC for less per flight than GFA require
> for an AEI flight; we hold an AOC
>
> so we can openly market Joy Flights, we have several members who are or
> have been employed by CASA and
>
> we do not want them to be compromised.
>
> ** **
>
> My experience is that most AEI/Joy Flights are members of the public who
> want to try gliding as part of the “Bucket List”
>
> Some have said so in so many words. Only a minority of AEIs are genuine
> potential members. If the fee must be $30.00
>
> what can package into it to give bang for the buck.
>
> ** **
>
> I propose the $30 buys a 60 Day temporary GFA membership (no magazine) with
> no limits on the number of hours of flights taken.
>
> Only a minority of AEIs will take advantage of this so the financial
> outcomes change very little, and for the few who do go on the
>
> become members this can only be good for the club, and the sport, and when
> they are finally hooked discount and backdate their
>
> GFA member to the date the temporary membership was taken out.
>
> ** **
>
> I would also propose we have a Junior Temporary membership to facilitate
> Cadet, school and other youth group activities, this is a long
>
> Term investment in the future; how many of our members have returned in
> later life because they have memories of a flight they took
>
> In their youth.
>
> ** **
>
> Gary can you take this proposal to the GFA AGM on my behalf?
>
> ** **
>
> Regards
>
> ** **
>
> Stuart
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:
> aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *
> gstev...@bigpond.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, 8 September 2011 2:31 AM
>
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
>
> ** **
>
> Cath,
>
> Remember, that as things stand, this $30 fee gives the lucky AEF person 3
> days membership of the GFA.
>
>
>
> I therefore suggest to you that it is a measure of YOUR club's nous, as to
> how you market this. *Hint* - the more you winch launches you give,
> the cheaper (on average), each individual flight becomes. You mention 2-3
> flights. With better planning and application I am sure this number could be
> substantially increased, especially over the 2 days of a weekend. For
> example when there is no lift, the AEF person does 6 winch launches @ $6 per
> launch plus glider hire at 50 cents per minute with each flight lasting 5
> minutes, my maths says that costs total $81, which means you can also add at
> least $20 - $30 for your trouble! Grand total $111. Not a big deal. {You
> might almost have an adept person solo after this many flights! Ha ha.}***
> *
>
>
>
> If there is lift around then there is no reason why the winch launch
> should not give an equivalent flight time to an aerotow launch. However I
> suggest that the club may have to be a bit selective in just which pilot is
> selected as PIC to do any particular flight, depending on conditions - like
> I say; use a bit of nous!
>
>
>
> If this is all too hard, then you could of course stop your whingeing, and
> not offer AEF's. You will be well aware that statistics show that
> AEF's serve little purpose in attracting new members to a club.
>
>
>
> However see my earlier post this eve
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
I wonder whether there is a place in the new magazine for the kind of commentary as this thread raises; or if only those approved of by GFA President and Board have their material published. Interesting that Classified returned; but I wonder whether members' letters will. On 07/09/2011, at 8:19 PM, Ian Mc Phee wrote: >From my 45+years in gliding I personally believe people want to learn and they want to learn NOW and time restraints are far more important than the bright sleek glass ship in our president article. Take a look at RAAus 1+ members- People get to fly within 15 minutes arrival at airfield. The $30 for AEF to GFA is sure a large - Personally I would not mind as much if say people under 25 got it for $15. I do know GFA have a special deal with AAFC so why not all young people. .Despite this huge initial charge and no 3months Student Membership of GFA I am very encouraged the number of young people learning to fly in past say 18 month- there is a ray of hope out there. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Gary,
The $30.00 fee represents a massive 50% increase!
Most clubs will just add it to the price of the AEI, for Aero-tow clubs this
represents about 5%,
but I feel for the winch launch clubs, this fee makes up a large piece of
the pricing pie. It also puts
clubs that hold an AOC in an interesting position, they finish up with two
products, one is the Joy Flight
and the other an AEI and the only cost structure difference is a fee applied
by the GFA; in our case we
cover the CASA fee to maintain the AOC for less per flight than GFA require
for an AEI flight; we hold an AOC
so we can openly market Joy Flights, we have several members who are or have
been employed by CASA and
we do not want them to be compromised.
My experience is that most AEI/Joy Flights are members of the public who
want to try gliding as part of the "Bucket List"
Some have said so in so many words. Only a minority of AEIs are genuine
potential members. If the fee must be $30.00
what can package into it to give bang for the buck.
I propose the $30 buys a 60 Day temporary GFA membership (no magazine) with
no limits on the number of hours of flights taken.
Only a minority of AEIs will take advantage of this so the financial
outcomes change very little, and for the few who do go on the
become members this can only be good for the club, and the sport, and when
they are finally hooked discount and backdate their
GFA member to the date the temporary membership was taken out.
I would also propose we have a Junior Temporary membership to facilitate
Cadet, school and other youth group activities, this is a long
Term investment in the future; how many of our members have returned in
later life because they have memories of a flight they took
In their youth.
Gary can you take this proposal to the GFA AGM on my behalf?
Regards
Stuart
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of
gstev...@bigpond.com
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 2:31 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Cath,
Remember, that as things stand, this $30 fee gives the lucky AEF person 3
days membership of the GFA.
I therefore suggest to you that it is a measure of YOUR club's nous, as to
how you market this. Hint - the more you winch launches you give, the
cheaper (on average), each individual flight becomes. You mention 2-3
flights. With better planning and application I am sure this number could be
substantially increased, especially over the 2 days of a weekend. For
example when there is no lift, the AEF person does 6 winch launches @ $6 per
launch plus glider hire at 50 cents per minute with each flight lasting 5
minutes, my maths says that costs total $81, which means you can also add at
least $20 - $30 for your trouble! Grand total $111. Not a big deal. {You
might almost have an adept person solo after this many flights! Ha ha.}
If there is lift around then there is no reason why the winch launch should
not give an equivalent flight time to an aerotow launch. However I suggest
that the club may have to be a bit selective in just which pilot is selected
as PIC to do any particular flight, depending on conditions - like I say;
use a bit of nous!
If this is all too hard, then you could of course stop your whingeing, and
not offer AEF's. You will be well aware that statistics show that AEF's
serve little purpose in attracting new members to a club.
However see my earlier post this evening, as to the real solution. With
adequate Federal funding to the GFA, the would be no requirement to charge
more than an acorn fee (say 5 cents) to your AEF person to join them up with
the GFA (This requirement for joining GFA is based on legal advice - but to
my knowledge has never been tested in court, so make of that what you will).
I suggest that you carefully read my earlier post, and think very carefully
about the many implications of my suggestions - and then do what you can to
bring about some positive change.
Gary
- Original Message -
From: Catherine Conway
To: AUS Soaring
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
I'm really disappointed with the $30 fee. Might be great for Aerotow clubs
charging AEFs off the street at $150-$200 a flight.For a club that
charges $6 launch and can do 5 min circuits if there is no lift and an AEF
visitor generally only manages 2-3 flights. This means they pay more to GFA
than we make for the flight! We try to convert ours to members so they are
not expensive flights.
I know the AAFC are also very upset with the rise (they are affected too).
Especially because they have other insurance cover. So what does this AEF
fee actually give them? I believe Scouts are not happ
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
In fact I think it's 9 days GFA membership for $30 but the RA(Aus), the
ultralite boys, give their AEF's 28 days for free. How can they do it and
not us?
Reg Moore
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of
gstev...@bigpond.com
Sent: Thursday, 8 September 2011 2:01 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Cath,
Remember, that as things stand, this $30 fee gives the lucky AEF person 3
days membership of the GFA.
I therefore suggest to you that it is a measure of YOUR club's nous, as to
how you market this. Hint - the more you winch launches you give, the
cheaper (on average), each individual flight becomes. You mention 2-3
flights. With better planning and application I am sure this number could be
substantially increased, especially over the 2 days of a weekend. For
example when there is no lift, the AEF person does 6 winch launches @ $6 per
launch plus glider hire at 50 cents per minute with each flight lasting 5
minutes, my maths says that costs total $81, which means you can also add at
least $20 - $30 for your trouble! Grand total $111. Not a big deal. {You
might almost have an adept person solo after this many flights! Ha ha.}
If there is lift around then there is no reason why the winch launch should
not give an equivalent flight time to an aerotow launch. However I suggest
that the club may have to be a bit selective in just which pilot is selected
as PIC to do any particular flight, depending on conditions - like I say;
use a bit of nous!
If this is all too hard, then you could of course stop your whingeing, and
not offer AEF's. You will be well aware that statistics show that AEF's
serve little purpose in attracting new members to a club.
However see my earlier post this evening, as to the real solution. With
adequate Federal funding to the GFA, the would be no requirement to charge
more than an acorn fee (say 5 cents) to your AEF person to join them up with
the GFA (This requirement for joining GFA is based on legal advice - but to
my knowledge has never been tested in court, so make of that what you will).
I suggest that you carefully read my earlier post, and think very carefully
about the many implications of my suggestions - and then do what you can to
bring about some positive change.
Gary
- Original Message -
From: Catherine Conway
To: AUS Soaring
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
I'm really disappointed with the $30 fee. Might be great for Aerotow clubs
charging AEFs off the street at $150-$200 a flight.For a club that
charges $6 launch and can do 5 min circuits if there is no lift and an AEF
visitor generally only manages 2-3 flights. This means they pay more to GFA
than we make for the flight! We try to convert ours to members so they are
not expensive flights.
I know the AAFC are also very upset with the rise (they are affected too).
Especially because they have other insurance cover. So what does this AEF
fee actually give them? I believe Scouts are not happy either.
What can we do? Must be some way to get the message across.
(Go the Kooka's JR - mines been flying lots of kids - including passenger
rated kids flying their friends. they don't seem to mind that its not new.
They still teach spins pretty well).
-Cath
On 07/09/2011, at 9:13 PM, Grant Davies wrote:
Agree the now $30 AEF fee is ridiculous. I have only been flying 4 years and
when I started students were $5.
Is there any explanation for this massive rise?
Or is it our GFA looking after our GFA, not the members and clubs?
_
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Darling Downs weather for the weekend of 10 - 11 September 2011
Hi folks The weekend forecast is available at http://the-white-knight-speaks.blogspot.com and will be updated tomorrow. We'll have some rain tomorrow, but it will be fine and windy all weekend, with Saturday showing promise for wave on the Bunyas - a chance perhaps to take the new Duo Discus to new heights! -- Robert Hart ha...@interweft.com.au +61 (0)438 385 533 http://www.hart.wattle.id.au ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding
I have been (fairly) quietly fuming about the AEF fees for a while now. This
year the NAGC (Reg Moore and I in reality) instructed sixty teenagers over a
dedicated five weeks. We have been doing this for eleven consecutive
years...the number has risen steadily each year. This yearI learned on a friday
that the fee was to go up to $30 on the following sunday. What is worse...it
has to be paid for in advance. Several times I have tried to get this (school)
programme to be viewed in a similar manner to the cadets...less than full price
and paid for after the event. The reply from the GFA was 'no' and the reason
given was that 'clubs have been taking the money and not passing it on'. There
was a time when I was very proud to be as active a member of the GFA as I could
be. I used to cite the organisation as an excellent example of low cost and
highly effective administration.I have been a GFA member since 1975, but still
evidently I am not trusted to be honest with the AEF fees.Have the cadet
officers/administrators got a track record like that?I now have to find $1800
in advance to run the programme. I have to ensure that each student gets their
four lessons within the miniscule timeframe. I have to do the triplicate
bullshit IN ADVANCE for every student (therefore get a signature from every
parent in advance). Just a bit of a nightmare! In short...the GFA has turned
into another self-serving beaurocratic office. And it is a hindrance-not a
help-to operations. The GFA in its present form is going to drive me
awaynever mind new members. But then the new members dont renew anyway, do
they?Costs are rising all around us. So be it. Why the restricted time frame
for these AEF's? Why not a 3 month membership?And on the bigger picture...I see
several excellent VOLUNTARY GFA office bearers doing a lot for the sport and
their colleagues. But I also see more money and less help coming from Central
Office.I belong to the BGA and GNZ as well. Dont get the same dismay when I
deal with them.
From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 00:33:36 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding
Hi Macca, JR, & All,
A couple of very nice postings, that gives some
perspective, on this vexing subject.
Yeah the AEF fee to GFA is large, but I have never
heard of any AEF person bucking about this. I very much suspect that much of
this is because they really don't understand just what is going on here
(despite
a briefing by an experienced club member, and "signing their life
away")! Possibly they are focused on the goal, which is of course as it
should be - to go flying.
However if you bother to read
the communications from the GFA, you will find that this fee has been set
on the basis that "somebody" has to pay for the administration of our sport. In
a nutshell under the current thinking, if the AEF
people don't contribute, then it is YOU who must pay
more. It is all about balancing the books.
In the very short term, Macca's
response now leads me to suggest the following: Keep the AEF fee the same,
but increase the 3 day membership to 3 months. { I suspect that the current
number of 3 month memberships is VERY low.} I haven't done any
research here, but I bet that my proposal will not make the
slightest bit of difference to revenue collected, and JUST MAYBE it might get
the movement an additional member or ten which will of course actually
increase revenue a bit - but revenue raising is not - just to make it crystal
clear - the prime goal of the exercise.
However let me say once again, for about the
hundredth time, that the basic problem is political, and until the GFA board
acknowledges this, and then sets about seriously - lets start with say
$500,000 seriously, expended on this over the next few
years - addressing this issue, this sport will continue to
slide, possibly into oblivion: Note again JR's comment about the "little
clubs" disappearing. This is of course followed by the "big clubs"
disappearing:
QED!
It is very interesting that just
one member of the gliding movement, (let alone anyone on the board),
has ever bothered to make comment on my suggestion about a political solution
to
the problem, and that one comment was not at all favourable. Are GFA members so
lacking in foresight that they cannot see the problem? I find this hard to
believe, but then again, I guess the Dodo did not expect to become extinct
either!
Gliding administration is growing increasingly
complex - read increasingly more expensive. The Federal Government doles out a
pittance to the GFA to administer the sport. If you have missed my
earlier comment on the subject, let me reiterate that the quantum paid
is nothing less than a bloody insult. The GFA Board must surely be aware of the
issues I have raised. The question that then arises is "Why does the GFA
board not address these is
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fee
Cath,
Remember, that as things stand, this $30 fee gives the lucky AEF person 3 days
membership of the GFA.
I therefore suggest to you that it is a measure of YOUR club's nous, as to how
you market this. Hint - the more you winch launches you give, the cheaper (on
average), each individual flight becomes. You mention 2-3 flights. With better
planning and application I am sure this number could be substantially
increased, especially over the 2 days of a weekend. For example when there is
no lift, the AEF person does 6 winch launches @ $6 per launch plus glider hire
at 50 cents per minute with each flight lasting 5 minutes, my maths says that
costs total $81, which means you can also add at least $20 - $30 for your
trouble! Grand total $111. Not a big deal. {You might almost have an adept
person solo after this many flights! Ha ha.}
If there is lift around then there is no reason why the winch launch should
not give an equivalent flight time to an aerotow launch. However I suggest that
the club may have to be a bit selective in just which pilot is selected as PIC
to do any particular flight, depending on conditions - like I say; use a bit of
nous!
If this is all too hard, then you could of course stop your whingeing, and not
offer AEF's. You will be well aware that statistics show that AEF's serve
little purpose in attracting new members to a club.
However see my earlier post this evening, as to the real solution. With
adequate Federal funding to the GFA, the would be no requirement to charge more
than an acorn fee (say 5 cents) to your AEF person to join them up with the GFA
(This requirement for joining GFA is based on legal advice - but to my
knowledge has never been tested in court, so make of that what you will).
I suggest that you carefully read my earlier post, and think very carefully
about the many implications of my suggestions - and then do what you can to
bring about some positive change.
Gary
- Original Message -
From: Catherine Conway
To: AUS Soaring
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
I'm really disappointed with the $30 fee. Might be great for Aerotow clubs
charging AEFs off the street at $150-$200 a flight.For a club that charges
$6 launch and can do 5 min circuits if there is no lift and an AEF visitor
generally only manages 2-3 flights. This means they pay more to GFA than we
make for the flight! We try to convert ours to members so they are not
expensive flights.
I know the AAFC are also very upset with the rise (they are affected too).
Especially because they have other insurance cover. So what does this AEF fee
actually give them? I believe Scouts are not happy either.
What can we do? Must be some way to get the message across.
(Go the Kooka's JR - mines been flying lots of kids - including passenger
rated kids flying their friends. they don't seem to mind that its not new.
They still teach spins pretty well).
-Cath
On 07/09/2011, at 9:13 PM, Grant Davies wrote:
Agree the now $30 AEF fee is ridiculous. I have only been flying 4 years
and when I started students were $5.
Is there any explanation for this massive rise?
Or is it our GFA looking after our GFA, not the members and clubs?
--
___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
I'm really disappointed with the $30 fee. Might be great for Aerotow clubs charging AEFs off the street at $150-$200 a flight.For a club that charges $6 launch and can do 5 min circuits if there is no lift and an AEF visitor generally only manages 2-3 flights. This means they pay more to GFA than we make for the flight! We try to convert ours to members so they are not expensive flights. I know the AAFC are also very upset with the rise (they are affected too). Especially because they have other insurance cover. So what does this AEF fee actually give them? I believe Scouts are not happy either. What can we do? Must be some way to get the message across. (Go the Kooka's JR - mines been flying lots of kids - including passenger rated kids flying their friends. they don't seem to mind that its not new. They still teach spins pretty well). -Cath On 07/09/2011, at 9:13 PM, Grant Davies wrote: Agree the now $30 AEF fee is ridiculous. I have only been flying 4 years and when I started students were $5. Is there any explanation for this massive rise? Or is it our GFA looking after our GFA, not the members and clubs? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] AEF fees, Funding, and the Demise of Gliding
Hi Macca, JR, & All,
A couple of very nice postings, that gives some perspective, on this vexing
subject.
Yeah the AEF fee to GFA is large, but I have never heard of any AEF person
bucking about this. I very much suspect that much of this is because they
really don't understand just what is going on here (despite a briefing by an
experienced club member, and "signing their life away")! Possibly they are
focused on the goal, which is of course as it should be - to go flying.
However if you bother to read the communications from the GFA, you will find
that this fee has been set on the basis that "somebody" has to pay for the
administration of our sport. In a nutshell under the current thinking, if the
AEF people don't contribute, then it is YOU who must pay more. It is all about
balancing the books.
In the very short term, Macca's response now leads me to suggest the following:
Keep the AEF fee the same, but increase the 3 day membership to 3 months. { I
suspect that the current number of 3 month memberships is VERY low.} I haven't
done any research here, but I bet that my proposal will not make the slightest
bit of difference to revenue collected, and JUST MAYBE it might get the
movement an additional member or ten which will of course actually increase
revenue a bit - but revenue raising is not - just to make it crystal clear -
the prime goal of the exercise.
However let me say once again, for about the hundredth time, that the basic
problem is political, and until the GFA board acknowledges this, and then sets
about seriously - lets start with say $500,000 seriously, expended on this over
the next few years - addressing this issue, this sport will continue to slide,
possibly into oblivion: Note again JR's comment about the "little clubs"
disappearing. This is of course followed by the "big clubs" disappearing: QED!
It is very interesting that just one member of the gliding movement, (let alone
anyone on the board), has ever bothered to make comment on my suggestion about
a political solution to the problem, and that one comment was not at all
favourable. Are GFA members so lacking in foresight that they cannot see the
problem? I find this hard to believe, but then again, I guess the Dodo did not
expect to become extinct either!
Gliding administration is growing increasingly complex - read increasingly more
expensive. The Federal Government doles out a pittance to the GFA to administer
the sport. If you have missed my earlier comment on the subject, let me
reiterate that the quantum paid is nothing less than a bloody insult. The GFA
Board must surely be aware of the issues I have raised. The question that then
arises is "Why does the GFA board not address these issues as their PRIME
MANDATE given that the very existence of the sport, let alone its vibrant
existence, depends on a satisfactory resolution"?
Gary Stevenson
- Original Message -
From: Ian Mc Phee
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
>From my 45+years in gliding I personally believe people want to learn and
they want to learn NOW and time restraints are far more important than the
bright sleek glass ship in our president article. Take a look at RAAus 1+
members- People get to fly within 15 minutes arrival at airfield.
The $30 for AEF to GFA is sure a large - Personally I would not mind as much
if say people under 25 got it for $15. I do know GFA have a special deal with
AAFC so why not all young people. .Despite this huge initial charge and no
3months Student Membership of GFA I am very encouraged the number of young
people learning to fly in past say 18 month- there is a ray of hope out there.
And as for CASA - As old Jack Iggulden would say we know and understand
gliding CASA (or DCA as he always called them) do not
Just a thought
Ian McPhee
0428847642
On 7 September 2011 20:22, JR wrote:
Is'nt the new look magazine unreal,but I must say I was a little disturbed
by the Presidents article on our ageing glider fleet. For starters my club had
a plan to fly our blanik for at least its 3750 hours, which would have put
somewhere near 60,000 dollars in our bank account, but thats not to be, and it
would seem that, having had that taken away from us, we are now going to be
paying more to GFA for AEF's aswell, where will it all stop. And as for nice
new plastic gliders, I have seen some fairly shabby looking examples of them
aswell, and the maintenance for me doesnt change from plastic, wood or metal, I
do the same job on them all . It does'nt matter what its made from or how old
it is, an inspection is an inspection. And on the subject of ageing aircraft, I
noticed in CASA's booklet on ageing aircraft, GFA didnt get a mention, and we
are probably leading the field in old aircraft and how to maintain them,
something I
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
Oh PS I do love the colour pics in the new mag. Was always a letdown to see a great picture in mono in the old mag. Kindest Regards Grant Davies From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2011 8:50 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine >From my 45+years in gliding I personally believe people want to learn and they want to learn NOW and time restraints are far more important than the bright sleek glass ship in our president article. Take a look at RAAus 1+ members- People get to fly within 15 minutes arrival at airfield. The $30 for AEF to GFA is sure a large - Personally I would not mind as much if say people under 25 got it for $15. I do know GFA have a special deal with AAFC so why not all young people. .Despite this huge initial charge and no 3months Student Membership of GFA I am very encouraged the number of young people learning to fly in past say 18 month- there is a ray of hope out there. And as for CASA - As old Jack Iggulden would say we know and understand gliding CASA (or DCA as he always called them) do not Just a thought Ian McPhee 0428847642 On 7 September 2011 20:22, JR wrote: Is'nt the new look magazine unreal,but I must say I was a little disturbed by the Presidents article on our ageing glider fleet. For starters my club had a plan to fly our blanik for at least its 3750 hours, which would have put somewhere near 60,000 dollars in our bank account, but thats not to be, and it would seem that, having had that taken away from us, we are now going to be paying more to GFA for AEF's aswell, where will it all stop. And as for nice new plastic gliders, I have seen some fairly shabby looking examples of them aswell, and the maintenance for me doesnt change from plastic, wood or metal, I do the same job on them all . It does'nt matter what its made from or how old it is, an inspection is an inspection. And on the subject of ageing aircraft, I noticed in CASA's booklet on ageing aircraft, GFA didnt get a mention, and we are probably leading the field in old aircraft and how to maintain them, something I think we should be proud of So I guess what will happen is all the little clubs will disappear, and all the big clubs will be left to cover the ever increasing costs of GFA and all the people who know how to maintain sailplanes will disappear aswell.I assume flarms will become extinct as there wont be that many gliders left flying.So I guess this means the end of the horse drawn zeppelin... regards JR PS sorry the humour content is low, but.. it happens ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
Agree the now $30 AEF fee is ridiculous. I have only been flying 4 years and when I started students were $5. Is there any explanation for this massive rise? Or is it our GFA looking after our GFA, not the members and clubs? We are biting the bullet and getting the mod done on our Blanik and back on line with a life extension to 11,400 hrs (predominantly winch launch). We can take $35k for this but couldn't push that to $90k as touted by the GFA Pres. What he fails to mention is that if you borrow then add another $10k - $15k in interest. And then you have to try and do as many AEF's as possible to pay for it. So the members are flying the K7 after all coz the time is taken up flying joy rides. Defeats the purpose I recon. Agree with you both, people want to fly and don't really care if it is in the K7, Twin Astir or the Blanik. Kindest Regards Grant Davies A small club trying to stay aloft. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2011 8:50 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine >From my 45+years in gliding I personally believe people want to learn and they want to learn NOW and time restraints are far more important than the bright sleek glass ship in our president article. Take a look at RAAus 1+ members- People get to fly within 15 minutes arrival at airfield. The $30 for AEF to GFA is sure a large - Personally I would not mind as much if say people under 25 got it for $15. I do know GFA have a special deal with AAFC so why not all young people. .Despite this huge initial charge and no 3months Student Membership of GFA I am very encouraged the number of young people learning to fly in past say 18 month- there is a ray of hope out there. And as for CASA - As old Jack Iggulden would say we know and understand gliding CASA (or DCA as he always called them) do not Just a thought Ian McPhee 0428847642 On 7 September 2011 20:22, JR wrote: Is'nt the new look magazine unreal,but I must say I was a little disturbed by the Presidents article on our ageing glider fleet. For starters my club had a plan to fly our blanik for at least its 3750 hours, which would have put somewhere near 60,000 dollars in our bank account, but thats not to be, and it would seem that, having had that taken away from us, we are now going to be paying more to GFA for AEF's aswell, where will it all stop. And as for nice new plastic gliders, I have seen some fairly shabby looking examples of them aswell, and the maintenance for me doesnt change from plastic, wood or metal, I do the same job on them all . It does'nt matter what its made from or how old it is, an inspection is an inspection. And on the subject of ageing aircraft, I noticed in CASA's booklet on ageing aircraft, GFA didnt get a mention, and we are probably leading the field in old aircraft and how to maintain them, something I think we should be proud of So I guess what will happen is all the little clubs will disappear, and all the big clubs will be left to cover the ever increasing costs of GFA and all the people who know how to maintain sailplanes will disappear aswell.I assume flarms will become extinct as there wont be that many gliders left flying.So I guess this means the end of the horse drawn zeppelin... regards JR PS sorry the humour content is low, but.. it happens ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
Well they are a rather difficult and quirksome thing to fly, I dont know why I mentioned it really, perhaps I should have said libelle, or the mini nimbus, everyone can click with them can't they, oh and I was just thinking, ( I know I shouldn't) but if the general public dont want to fly in our old gliders, perhaps GFA can waver the 30 dollar fee... just thinking or did I say that out loud. JR___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
Oh I don't know JR, me and the Discus just don't seem to click. BTW good topic, I will watch with interest. Cheers Patch. - Original Message - From: "JR" To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." Sent: Wednesday, 7 September, 2011 8:58:19 PM (GMT+1000) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine Well said Macca, where we are, flying has been hampered by weather, and my students dont say " I wish we had something new to fly" they say I wish we could fly, and at the moment the 2 seater in our club is a kookaburra, and when they can fly they are damn happy to be in the air, and thats what is important to them, and I must say thats how I feel aswell, I get as much pleasure out of flying the Oly as I do flying a discus, or asw20. its about flying. JR ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
Well said Macca, where we are, flying has been hampered by weather, and my students dont say " I wish we had something new to fly" they say I wish we could fly, and at the moment the 2 seater in our club is a kookaburra, and when they can fly they are damn happy to be in the air, and thats what is important to them, and I must say thats how I feel aswell, I get as much pleasure out of flying the Oly as I do flying a discus, or asw20. its about flying. JR___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] our magazine
>From my 45+years in gliding I personally believe people want to learn and they want to learn *NOW *and time restraints are far more important than the bright sleek glass ship in our president article. Take a look at RAAus 1+ members- People get to fly within 15 minutes arrival at airfield. The $30 for AEF to GFA is sure a large - Personally I would not mind as much if say people under 25 got it for $15. I do know GFA have a special deal with AAFC so why not all young people. .Despite this huge initial charge and no 3months Student Membership of GFA I am very encouraged the number of young people learning to fly in past say 18 month- there is a ray of hope out there. And as for CASA - As old Jack Iggulden would say we know and understand gliding CASA (or DCA as he always called them) do not Just a thought Ian McPhee 0428847642 On 7 September 2011 20:22, JR wrote: > ** > Is'nt the new look magazine unreal,but I must say I was a little disturbed > by the Presidents article on our ageing glider fleet. For starters my club > had a plan to fly our blanik for at least its 3750 hours, which would have > put somewhere near 60,000 dollars in our bank account, but thats not to be, > and it would seem that, having had that taken away from us, we are now > going to be paying more to GFA for AEF's aswell, where will it all stop. And > as for nice new plastic gliders, I have seen some fairly shabby looking > examples of them aswell, and the maintenance for me doesnt change from > plastic, wood or metal, I do the same job on them all . It does'nt matter > what its made from or how old it is, an inspection is an inspection. And on > the subject of ageing aircraft, I noticed in CASA's booklet on ageing > aircraft, GFA didnt get a mention, and we are probably leading the field in > old aircraft and how to maintain them, something I think we should be proud > of So I guess what will happen is all the little clubs will disappear, > and all the big clubs will be left to cover the ever increasing costs of GFA > and all the people who know how to maintain sailplanes will disappear > aswell.I assume flarms will become extinct as there wont be that many > gliders left flying.So I guess this means the end of the horse drawn > zeppelin... > regards > JR > PS sorry the humour content is low, but.. it happens > > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] our magazine
Is'nt the new look magazine unreal,but I must say I was a little disturbed by the Presidents article on our ageing glider fleet. For starters my club had a plan to fly our blanik for at least its 3750 hours, which would have put somewhere near 60,000 dollars in our bank account, but thats not to be, and it would seem that, having had that taken away from us, we are now going to be paying more to GFA for AEF's aswell, where will it all stop. And as for nice new plastic gliders, I have seen some fairly shabby looking examples of them aswell, and the maintenance for me doesnt change from plastic, wood or metal, I do the same job on them all . It does'nt matter what its made from or how old it is, an inspection is an inspection. And on the subject of ageing aircraft, I noticed in CASA's booklet on ageing aircraft, GFA didnt get a mention, and we are probably leading the field in old aircraft and how to maintain them, something I think we should be proud of So I guess what will happen is all the little clubs will disappear, and all the big clubs will be left to cover the ever increasing costs of GFA and all the people who know how to maintain sailplanes will disappear aswell.I assume flarms will become extinct as there wont be that many gliders left flying.So I guess this means the end of the horse drawn zeppelin... regards JR PS sorry the humour content is low, but.. it happens ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Grinding The Crack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxMBCWfDV5Q From: drudd...@iinet.net.au To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:01:37 +1000 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Grinding The Crack Already seen that. I believe ‘grinding the crack’ is a reference to what they had to do to remove the sh*t from his backside after clearing that ledge by centimetres. Balls of steel? More like a hole in his head where his brain should be. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter Stephenson Sent: Monday, 5 September 2011 10:20 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Grinding The Crack I thought Grinding the Crack might refer to the squirming ab initio student just before spin training. But no, this aviator has balls of steel:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWfph3iNC-k&feature=player_embedded Not a bad sound track either. Enjoy! ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Used B40
So rather than have my little advertisement hijacked again as to the merits of this or that can I just re iterate that I still have two small ASI's that I would like to sell or swap for two big ones. That is it, nothing more. Ron On 7 September 2011 03:21, Mike Borgelt wrote: > > Ron's B40 has been sold. > > Mike > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since > 1978 > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 > > email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
