Re: [Aus-soaring] Design Approval Procedures Manual

[Mandy Temple]

There is now a working link to these Documents on the GFA site.

Go to Airworthiness>AW documents 

It is the last link

http://www.glidingaustralia.org/GFA-IT/docman-test

thanks Tim

Mandy

 

Note   thetemp...@internode.on.net is
now being used by Mandy. 

Peter is using  
pete.tem...@internode.on.net . 

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Anthony
Smith
Sent: Thursday, 12 March 2015 9:07 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Design Approval Procedures Manual

 

Hi all 

 

Has anyone been able to download the latest version (Issue 3) of the Design
Approval Procedures Manual from the GFA web site yet?  Or is it not yet
released?

 

Regards

 

Anthony

 

 

 

 

5.   Design Approvals Procedures Manual (DAPM)

Mike Burns has concluded a contract under the Airworthiness Development
Program to draft and have approved by CASA a Design Approvals Procedures
Manual (DAPM). This is Issue 3 of the DAPM dated December 2014 and is
endorsed by CASA for immediate use and has been approved by the GFA Board.

When a non-standard modification, repair or replacement part is introduced
to a certified sailplane or powered sailplane, (operated under GFA) the
Certificate of Airworthiness will be invalidated, but can be re-instated
provided that the non-standard modification or repair has been "Design
Approved".

The DAPM outlines the procedures that enable (under CASA REG21.M) an
Authorised Person to provide Design Approval thereby revalidating the
sailplane's or powered sailplane's original Certificate of Airworthiness.

See the DAPM on the GFA web page under Docs/Forms to see what is involved.
However, this is a guide to the Engineers more than to you the member.

An Applicant, seeking Design Approval for a project, will start by
completing GFA Form AIRW_F009 and submitting it to the GFA CAD for
registration . Maintenance persons may also apply for repair approvals to
enable major repairs. The application should be made after informal
investigation of the project proposal with either the CAD, CTO or a 21.M AP
to ensure that there is no pre-existing work that could be utilised and that
what is proposed, is feasible, with no obvious adverse influences on
airworthiness or safety. Where possible, consultation with the original
sailplane manufacturer is appropriate.

NOTE: It is not expected that the Applicant will have fully detailed
engineering data available at the application stage, that will be developed
by the Applicant and the allocated 21.M AP as the design approval is
processed.

Work performed by the 21.M AP will typically be paid for by the person
requesting the Design Approval.

Note that if you proceed with a significant modification it does invalidate
the CoA. Please discuss. We may be able to issue you an Experimental
Certificate to enable you to experiment if you wish to take the risk.
However, to return it to CoA status is only possible using the Design
Approval process if the Engineers can approve what you have done - no
guarantee.

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Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

[terrycubley]

There was much discussion at the IGC meeting about proposed changes to flarm. 

There is a growing discussion about the use of flarm in competitions. Its use 
in safety improvement – alerting pilots of potential conflict, appears to be at 
odds with its use as a tactical tool.

Pilots now have the capacity to obtain data from the flarm signal to identify 
which glider is visible, its height and rate of climb. This causes two 
problems: Firstly, pilots are spending a lot of time staring at their flarm 
screen which reduces time looking out of the window.  Secondly, pilots are 
turning off their flarm so that other pilots cannot see what they are doing, so 
the safety benefit is removed.

The other issue is the increased use of tracking receivers which takes flarm 
data and then uploads this onto a web display. This is providing real time data 
on tracks and location of the various gliders, and many pilots are now turning 
off their flarm to protect their data.

Flarm manufacturers are rolling out a new software version which attempts to 
provide a solution to these issues. The stealth mode is being improved to 
provide better safety features, and to introduce a No tracking setting which 
ensures tracking is only available via official flarm receivers/transmitters.

Terry

 Gary Stevenson  wrote: 
> Mike,
> 
> You are probable right on the mark here.
> 
> However, in this instance, I have no argument with their approach.
> 
> The record shows that this device has saved lives (just as parachutes have
> saved lives). Do we begrudge Parachute Manufacturers’ making an honest
> living from their enterprise? 
> 
> Limiting entry of competition, where possible, has always been a valid
> business principle.
> 
> I am almost certain that the guys from (FLARM, Switzerland), monitor this
> forum. Perhaps they might like to make comment?
> 
> Gary 
> 
>  
> 
> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike
> Borgelt
> Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2015 7:41 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update
> 
>  
> 
> At 05:54 PM 14/03/2015, you wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI:
> FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6.
> It's available here:Â http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/
> 
> The protocols in the current version (v5) and new version (v6) are
> supposedly totally incompatible, so please update your FLARMs before next
> flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other version.
> 
>  I think it's very irresponsible of FLARM to publish a
> backwards incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am not flying in the
> Alps this weekend. 
> 
> 
> 
> I gather it is to prevent competitors from producing compatible hardware
> without paying royalties to Flarm.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

[Gary Stevenson]

Mike,

You are probable right on the mark here.

However, in this instance, I have no argument with their approach.

The record shows that this device has saved lives (just as parachutes have
saved lives). Do we begrudge Parachute Manufacturers’ making an honest
living from their enterprise? 

Limiting entry of competition, where possible, has always been a valid
business principle.

I am almost certain that the guys from (FLARM, Switzerland), monitor this
forum. Perhaps they might like to make comment?

Gary 

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike
Borgelt
Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2015 7:41 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

 

At 05:54 PM 14/03/2015, you wrote:



FYI:
FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6.
It's available here:Â http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/

The protocols in the current version (v5) and new version (v6) are
supposedly totally incompatible, so please update your FLARMs before next
flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other version.

 I think it's very irresponsible of FLARM to publish a
backwards incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am not flying in the
Alps this weekend. 



I gather it is to prevent competitors from producing compatible hardware
without paying royalties to Flarm.

Mike



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Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

[Gary Stevenson]

Hi Tim,

In the main,  I enjoy your posts, and often have a quite laugh . Like
the bit about the specs. Unfortunately, with the average age of the Oz
glider pilot being what it is, this is very sound advice, but a good laugh
nevertheless. [BTW my new lenses are just one week old.]

As the sign on the dunny door says; LOOKOUT, LOOKOUT, LOOKOUT.

I agree with you re a club based co-ordinated change. Thanks to Brian Wood
most of the flarms in Grampians Soaring Club fleet, including those in
private gliders were updated today, and two currently absent ships will be
done tomorrow. 

Cheers,

Gary

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley
Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2015 8:32 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

 

Hi all,

Flarms are standalone devices.  They won't stop working tomorrow, because
there is nothing to stop them working.  A Flarm on V5 will see a Flarm on V5
just the same for ever, so it is probably better for the upgrade at a club,
or in an area where gliders often fly together, to be co-ordinated.  Making
an instant change to your own Flarm might simply disable yours :)

Flarm is being 100% consistent in its policy, and if that is irresponsible
well then more irresponsibility from Tony Abbott would be good (if that is
possible).  They have NEVER guaranteed that a major version upgrade is
backward compatible, in fact they have always said that any backward
compatibility between major versions is coincidental.  I make no comment on
the reasons or the necessity for this policy. 

There's nothing wrong with a Flarm, except for the far too high expectations
we have of it.  

Just look out the window - no version changes required but make sure your
specs are up to spec.

Cheers

Tim Shirley

tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare

On 14/03/2015 6:54 PM, Matthew Scutter wrote:

FYI: 

FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6.

It's available here: http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/

 

The protocols in the current version (v5) and new version (v6) are
supposedly totally incompatible, so please update your FLARMs before next
flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other version.

 

 I think it's very irresponsible of FLARM to publish a
backwards incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am not flying in the
Alps this weekend. 






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Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

[Matthew Scutter]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 8:32 PM, Tim Shirley 
wrote:
>
> Flarms are standalone devices.  They won't stop working tomorrow, because
> there is nothing to stop them working.
>
No, but they will stop working on March 31st, if you're still running v5.
And every subsequent year on subsequent versions.


> A Flarm on V5 will see a Flarm on V5 just the same for ever, so it is
> probably better for the upgrade at a club, or in an area where gliders
> often fly together, to be co-ordinated.  Making an instant change to your
> own Flarm might simply disable yours :)
>
Right, and the only rational time to upgrade is immediately - you don't
know who's already upgraded around you. I see gliders from other clubs,
sometimes other states almost every weekend.


> Flarm is being 100% consistent in its policy, and if that is irresponsible
> well then more irresponsibility from Tony Abbott would be good (if that is
> possible).  They have NEVER guaranteed that a major version upgrade is
> backward compatible, in fact they have always said that any backward
> compatibility between major versions is coincidental.  I make no comment on
> the reasons or the necessity for this policy.
>
> I do not understand what you mean by 100% consistent in it's policy. Which
policy?
Maybe they have some enormous safety improvements in the new firmware that
justifies the suboptimal functionality for the next fortnight. If so I
don't think it's been adequately justified to us, the users.

There's nothing wrong with a Flarm, except for the far too high
> expectations we have of it.
>
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a premium priced piece of
technology explicitly designed to prevent collisions to be potentially
unable to do so for weeks of the year.

Just look out the window - no version changes required but make sure your
> specs are up to spec.
>
Fortunately I can still walk when my car is broken too.
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Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

[Tim Shirley]

Hi all,

Flarms are standalone devices.  They won't stop working tomorrow, 
because there is nothing to stop them working.  A Flarm on V5 will see a 
Flarm on V5 just the same for ever, so it is probably better for the 
upgrade at a club, or in an area where gliders often fly together, to be 
co-ordinated.  Making an instant change to your own Flarm might simply 
disable yours :)


Flarm is being 100% consistent in its policy, and if that is 
irresponsible well then more irresponsibility from Tony Abbott would be 
good (if that is possible).  They have NEVER guaranteed that a major 
version upgrade is backward compatible, in fact they have always said 
that any backward compatibility between major versions is coincidental.  
I make no comment on the reasons or the necessity for this policy.


There's nothing wrong with a Flarm, except for the far too high 
expectations we have of it.


Just look out the window - no version changes required but make sure 
your specs are up to spec.


Cheers

/Tim Shirley/

/tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare/

On 14/03/2015 6:54 PM, Matthew Scutter wrote:

FYI:
FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6.
It's available here: http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/

The protocols in the current version (v5) and new version (v6) are 
supposedly totally incompatible, so please update your FLARMs before 
next flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other version.


 I think it's very irresponsible of FLARM to publish 
a backwards incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am not flying 
in the Alps this weekend. 



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Re: [Aus-soaring] FLARM update

[Mike Borgelt]

At 05:54 PM 14/03/2015, you wrote:

FYI:
FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6.
It's available here:Â 
http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/


The protocols in the current version (v5) and 
new version (v6) are supposedly totally 
incompatible, so please update your FLARMs 
before next flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other version.


 I think it's very 
irresponsible of FLARM to publish a backwards 
incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am 
not flying in the Alps this weekend. 



I gather it is to prevent competitors from 
producing compatible hardware without paying royalties to Flarm.


Mike


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[Aus-soaring] FLARM update

[Matthew Scutter]

FYI:
FLARM has now published it's latest update - v6.
It's available here: http://flarm.com/support/firmware-updates/

The protocols in the current version (v5) and new version (v6) are
supposedly totally incompatible, so please update your FLARMs before next
flight or you won't be able to see pilots with the other version.

 I think it's very irresponsible of FLARM to publish a
backwards incompatible upgrade like this. I am glad I am not flying in the
Alps this weekend. 
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