Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question 2 - names on manifests from Azores to USA

[Cheri Mello]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:41 PM, DaveBoy  wrote:

> What's weird is the three children are listed below her with her family
> name.  Their father's family name is Moniz Tavares but the kids are listed
> as Casquilho's which is their stepmother's family name.  Is there a reason
> for this kind of thing?
>

Man woman child child child and the scribe was in the habit of copying and
didn't think? Just a thought.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question 1 - ships from Hawaii to Azores

[Cheri Mello]

David P,

The United States doesn't have any ships' lists leaving.  But Hawaii in
1890 was not part of the United States. It was a kingdom until 1893.
However, I don't know if the kingdom kept any outbound lists.  You can
check Mel's Portuguese Hawaiian site (www.yourislandroutes.com) or contact
the Portuguese Hawaiian Genealogical Society.  There is a fellow that
answers requests.  I think he's on this list, so maybe he'll answer you.

As for a death at sea, the "Where to Write for Vital Records" says it was
filed at the next port of call:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w/foreign.htm
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Question 2 - names on manifests from Azores to USA

[DaveBoy]

My greatgrandfather and his new second wife came to the US with his three 
children by a previous marriage.  There's no indication on the manifest 
that the new wife is his wife except she's listed beneath his name.  What's 
weird is the three children are listed below her with her family name.  
Their father's family name is Moniz Tavares but the kids are listed as 
Casquilho's which is their stepmother's family name.  Is there a reason for 
this kind of thing?  I was thinking it may be less expensive for a single 
mom with children than a man with a wife and three children.  Any other 
ideas?  Also, it's possible grandfather hadn't yet married his new "wife" 
since he had a big falling out with the priest in the Azores.  For all I 
know, they may never have married though this wouldn't explain why the kids 
travelled under the other name.  They used the normal name in the US.  Any 
thoughts?
Thanks, David

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Question 1 - ships from Hawaii to Azores

[DaveBoy]

My greatgrandfather went to Hawaii in 1882.  I have the ship, names, etc. 
for the voyage over.  He and family returned to Azores around 1890.  Are 
there any manifests readily available for ships traveling Hawaii to 
Azores?  There is a child who died at sea on the return voyage and I'd like 
to know her name which would be on the manifest and I'd also like to know 
the date(s) of departure and arrival.  Anyone know anything about this?
Thanks, David

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Communicating with family for information

[Cheri Mello]

Frank,

Nancy Jean is in the Azores and will be back at the end of the month.  So
if you don't hear back from her right away, you know why.

If you want her direct email, it's fishsongfarm at hotmail.com


Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Communicating with family for information

[Frank Nunes]

Hi Nancy.  It appears that we are related.  My Great Uncle was Cardinal 
Jose da Costa Nunes.  I can send you a link of an old 8mm film of him with 
my parents filmed in the 50s.  I met him and spent a couple of weeks with 
him in the 70s before he died.  How exactly are you related?
Frank Nunes

On Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:13:29 PM UTC+1, nancy jean baptiste wrote:
>
>  Greetings,
> I've seen many da Costa's from Candelaria, Pico.my cousin was Cardinal 
> Jose da Costa Nunes from Candelaria. 
> Nancy Jean Baptiste
>
> --
>
> From: ttco...@aol.com 
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:09:16 -0500
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Communicating with family for information
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
>
>
>  Bob,
>  
> All of my Azorean ancestors are supposed to be from Sao Miguel.  While I 
> have proof of that for some lines, I have not yet found the home town of my 
> Costa's/da Costa's, so I am not 100% certain.  Sorry I can't help more, at 
> this moment.  I am still working on it.
>  
> Best of luck.  I will keep you in mind, if I find out more.
>  
> -Trevor Costa (Washington DC)
> -Researching da Costa from Fall River / Sao Miguel & Camara Vieira from 
> Capelas, Sao Miguel
>  
> In a message dated 1/21/2009 5:52:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
> bobca...@aol.com  writes:
>
> Hi Trevor
> I see that you are a Costa, and I am checking to see where your family is 
> from, what I am looking for is what Island and village.  My mother was a 
> Costa.
> Thanks
>  
>  
> *Bob Camacho
> Researching the Island of Terceira for
> da Costa, Evangelho, Pacheco, Ferriera
> Researching the Island of Graciousa for
> Reis
> Researching the Island of Madeira for
> Camacho
> Researching Brazil for
> Evangelho*
>
> --
> *A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
> steps!
> * 
>
>   
>
> --
> *A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
> steps!
> *
>
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] GGGrandfather Christiano Machado from Urzelina, Sao Jorge.

[Shirley Allegre]

See corrections in red.
Here is some new info:

DOMarriage   2 August 1819, Rosais, Sao Jorge, Azores   (page #) 61 Left Top
Felix Jose da Silveira
son of (Jorge de Sousa da Silveira X Maria de Jesus, deceased)
It says something about one of them being a native and BAPtised in the Matriz.
The Matriz might be Velas?
SPOUSE
Maria Joaquina de Jesus***
(Patricio Jose X Theresa de Jesus)
native & bapt Rosais
TESTIMONY
Manoel de Ava de Bcurt.  I don't know the priest's abbreviations.  This might 
be Manoel
de Avilla or Azevedo de Bettencourt.
and Ignacio Ferreira Machado

Maria ***
DOBirth 9 Jan 1800
BAPT   13 Jan 1800, Rosais, Sao Jorge   (25? RB)
(Patricio Jose X Theresa de Jesus)
natives Rosais
GODPARENTS
Manoel Silveira & Maria Silveira  both children of (Ignacio Ferreira? Machado)
from Matriz of Velas
__

Maria
DOB 22 Nov 1820
BAPT 27 Nov 1820, Rosais, Sao Jorge   (44RB)
(Felix Jose da Silveira, native Santa Anna - Beira
X Maria Joaquina, native Nossa Senhora Rosario - Rosais)
GODPARENTS
Francisco Jose de Sequeira?
& Isabel Joaquina daughter of 
(Patricio Jose X Theresa de Jesus)

Antonio
DOB 10 Feb 1823
BAPT 15 Feb 1823, Rosais, Sao Jorge   (74RT)
(Felix Jose, native Santa Anna - Beira 
X Maria Joaquina, nat. NSR-Rosais)
GODPARENTS
Antonio Sebastiao Espinola Homem ***
& Emiliana vivalda? Constanciana Fonseca
daughter of (Antonio Joaquim da Fonseca X Anna Clara da Fontes)

Christianno
DOB 20 Feb 1826
BAPT __   Rosais, Sao Jorge   (23? RB)
(Felix Jose, nat.  & bapt Velas
X Maria Joaquina, nat. NSR -Rosais)
GODPARENTS
SARGENT MOR Antonio Sebastiao Hipinula?/ Espinola? Homen***
& Josepha Candida da Fonseca
(Antonio Joaquim da Fonseca)
village of Velas

Constantino
DOB  12 Jan 1829
BAPT 19 Jan 1829, Rosais, Sao Jorge  (40RT)
(Felix Jose, nat. Santa Anna X Maria Joaquina, nat. Rosais)
GODPARENTS
Constantino de Lacerda Cabral, WIDOWER
& Maria Candida da Fonseca
natives MATRIZ of Velas
TESTIMONY
Godfather Joao Jose de Bettencourt

This is where I stopped looking for more kids for Felix X Maria Joaquina.

Then I found the following marriage.  
DOM  22 Oct 1798, Rosais, Sao Jorge(1 RB)
Patricio Jose, bapt Rosais??
(Mathias Pereira de Almeida X Isabel Maria)
SPOUSE
Theresa de Jesus , native Sao Matheus - Urzalina?
(Jose Ferreira Correa X Maria de Jesus)

The end.   Hope this helps
Please check out all of this info for yourself.  If you find any errors, please 
let me know.

Shirley in CA



- Original Message - 
  From: Shirley Allegre 
  To: azores@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 10:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] GGGrandfather Christiano Machado from 
Urzelina, Sao Jorge.


  This is the best that I can figure out:
  Christiano Machado
  27 April 1881 7:00 a.m.house #7, Ribeira do _
  in Sao Matheus (church?) Urzelina
  Council of Velas
  Dioscese of Angra
  died, received sacraments
  age  53 years
  married with Perpetua Roza
  proprietario, 
  native of Nosa Senhara do Rosario (Church) in Rosais.
  resident of Sao Mattheus
  son legitimate of Felix Jose and of Maria Joaquina, natives of Nosa Senhora 
do Rozario.
  Sam Jorge, village of Velas.
  three children
  buried:  public cemetery

  It looks like Christiano was born in Rosaid about 1828.  I have the films for 
Velas, Sao Jorge, Azores.
  Tomorrow I will see if I can find anything for you at FHC.

  Shirley in CA

- Original Message - 
From: Diane 
To: azores@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 4:08 PM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] GGGrandfather Christiano Machado from Urzelina, 
Sao Jorge.


I am new to this group and have just found that I can get access to the 
archives. I have found the obit for my GGGrandfather Christiano Machado and I 
know it is him because the name of his second wife Perpetua Roza appears in the 
text. Otherwise I am unable to translate and wonder if there is someone in the 
group that could read what it says? It is the one marked No.9. I would  be 
interested to know if there are any relevant probate records available?

I also notice that there is a reference to Portuguese naming conventions 
that has been previously discussed but can't find it on the list. I am very 
interested in this subject and believe it is quite complicated but would be 
grateful for any more information.

My GGrandfather was Joaquim Machado Pereira and he came to Australia about 
1870. It seems that this was an unusual choice and I think he may have gone to 
the US first. His mother's name was Vitorina.They lived in Urzelina and 
GGrandpa changed his name to Antonio Mitchell when he came to Sydney. He was a 
sailor and wore a gold earring. Ii have a lovely photo of him. 
Diane



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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Writing the family history

[Leonard Silva]

Thank you all very much for the input.  Several folks contacted me offline 
as well.

I have found several cousins who I didn't even know existed, and some of 
them didn't know each other. They are grand children or great grand 
children of my grandfather.  There was a common thread in our conversations 
that my grandfather's four children.from his first marriage all left home 
as soon as they reached adulthood and had little contact with him after 
that.  Their mother, my grandfather's first wife died young, when the 
oldest child was 22 and the youngest only 10.

He was not a criminal or anything like that, but rather a successful 
barber, highly regarded in the community, but not so much at home.

I have decided that when the time comes to write the narrative, I will 
include that information.

Thanks again,

Len Silva

On Monday, September 10, 2012 2:36:16 PM UTC-4, Leonard Silva wrote:
>
> I have been researching my grandfather in the hopes of writing a history 
> for the coming generations  and to satisfy the curiosity of my family about 
> their heritage.
>
> After some research, I find that the kindly old man that I knew as a child 
> may not have been all that nice.  Stories are starting to arise of abuse, 
> excessive drinking, and estrangement of his children.
>
> My father was a product of his second marriage and cared a lot for his 
> parents.  Vovoo was an old man of 75 when I was born, and I only knew a 
> sweet, kind old man who loved me.  Now, I am finding that the children of 
> his first marriage did not hold him in such high esteem.
>
> So, my question for the group is:  If you were putting together a family 
> history for the generations to come, how would you handle this?
>
> Most of the stories are hearsay as there is no one alive with direct 
> knowledge, but there must be something to them.
>
> I am inclined to be very honest in relating family stories, but I wonder 
> how some of you might handle this.
>
> Thanks for your input,
>
> Len
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] FTDNA matches

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Elaine,

I just verified with FTDNA...that 2nd column will display how far out they
have tested, not what was ordered.  So your new match has the first 12
markers in, but you think they ordered 37.  The 2nd column will say Y-DNA
12 because their test is in progress.  When the 25 comes in, the 2nd column
will say Y-DNA 25. And so forth.

DYS392:  That means *D*NA *Y* *S*egment 392.  The geneticists name the
markers.  Mostly with numbers.  A few have goofy names (Y-GATA-H4, for
example).  DYS392 is a slow moving marker.  That's very good to have a
mutation there when you have a fairly common name.  A slow moving marker is
where the geneticists DO NOT expect to see a mutation. A fast moving marker
is where they DO expect to see a mutation.  And mutations in DNA are a good
thing (as we are dealing with junk DNA). It allows us to tease the family
branches apart.

Let's pretend that this is one subgroup in the McNeal project:
13-23-14-11-11-14-12-12-12-13-14-29
And this is your hubby and his cohorts:
13-23-14-11-11-14-12-12-12-13-15-29

As genealogists, we don't care that the first marker is called DYS393 and
the next one is DYS390.  We just want to compare the numbers.  They all
match, except where I've highlighted it.

If the main group has the top string of numbers with the 14 in it and yours
is the bottom string with the 15 in it, there's been a mutation at that
position.  An ancestor in your tree accidentally made 15 copies of that
marker instead of 14.  Just like making copies at an office store -
sometimes the machine might spit out an extra piece of paper or might short
you one sheet.

As more and more men test, you can figure out the ancestor who gave off the
15.  The founder of FTDNA, Bennett Greenspan, tells this story when he does
DNA speeches: When he founded the company, he tested a few relatives.  He
tested both his brothers.  They had the same string of numbers. Then he
tested his son.  His son had one number different.  So Bennett tested
himself.  He also had the one number different.  Therefore, Bennett was the
"mutant" and passed an extra copy down. So anyone for practically all
eternity who is a Greenspan at that particular mutation will be able to say
that they descend from Bennett.

It's really nice to see the science of DNA back the circumstantial evidence
of our paper trails.  I went around and around (before Ancestry.com or DNA
- so I was spinning those microfilm reels around and around) with my
paternal grandmother's line.  I had a lot of circumstantial evidence, but
no definite proof, so I didn't want to research the line further back until
I was sure.  A cousin tested and DNA proved that the circumstantial
evidence was correct.  DNA also has the ability to disprove things too.  A
man at my genealogy society was brickwalled on his John White ancestor.
Had been stuck there for years.  He tested his DNA and did not match a
single White. He was matching Christensens.  He really thought FTDNA messed
up.  He came to several of our DNA meetings trying to understand all this
stuff.  It took a while for him to get over the shock, but when he did, he
went back to that county where his ancestors were and started looking at
women with the surname of White that were living very close to Christensens
and he found them.

Cheri Mello
Family Tree DNA Admin
Azores DNA Project

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Emailing: Obit Manuel Jose Fraga 1836

[helen kerner]

I have a friend (not a midwife & in the US) who baptized her chld at home 
because she didn't think that the child would live.  She used tap water (let it 
run a while) and blessed her daughter using language she had heard at 
baptisms.  Her priest  said that the baptism was valid the way that she 
performed it.  Her daughter went on to live for almost another two months.

helen cunha kerner




From: Mary Bordi 
To: "azores@googlegroups.com" 
Sent: Wed, September 12, 2012 9:50:47 PM
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Emailing: Obit Manuel Jose Fraga 1836


On Sep 12, 2012, at 1:33 PM, Altino Demelo  wrote:


Sam, think that in instances where a baby is close to death, the priest is 
called quickly to baptize the infant. I don't think a midwife is allowed to 
baptize a child.
>
For the record-- 

(From Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10287a.htm)
As regards the sacrament of baptism the office of midwives is of the highest 
importance. On them frequently devolves the duty of conferring thissacrament, 
under circumstances where no other person's ministration is possible. Hence, 
the Churchhas always been most solicitious concerning the character of midwives 
and their instruction in thisreligious duty. Canonists teach that women who 
undertake the office of midwife are bound under mortal sin to learn the methods 
and requirements of valid baptism, as in case 
of necessity this dutyfrequently devolves upon them. There has been much 
legislation on this subject in various diocesansynods, whose canons place 
special obligations on parish priests and midwives. The former are reminded 
that, as midwives in conferring baptism act in place of the parish priest, he 
is 
strictly bound to in form himself whether they have sufficient knowledge to 
administer the sacramentvalidly. Some diocesan synods require that midwives, 
before being approved for duty, take an oaththat they will labor to procure 
the spiritual safety of infant and mother. When a new-born child has 
been baptized by a midwife, the parish priest must inquire carefully whether 
she 
had the properintention and administered the rite according to 
the prescriptions of the Church. If there is anyreason to doubt, the baptism is 
to be repeated conditionally (Catch. Rom., II, ii, § 43); but if it 
becertain that the sacrament was properly conferred it may not be repeated 
(c. Majores, 3 de bapt; Conc. Trid. Sess. VI, can. ix), and only the 
other ceremonies are to be supplied by the parish priest.  -- 

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] FTDNA matches

[Elaine Sharp]

Cheri,

 

Thanks for the reply.  In checking the results, it lists in the 2nd column
Y-DNA 12 but I was under the impression she had ordered 37 so I am not sure
if anymore matches from her dad will be forthcoming although she states
there are more coming?  She did send to me and 2 others we connect to (she
is more DNA knowledgeable than I)  - "286 tests listed for our family name,
only three have result 15 for marker DYS392" - I have no idea what she is
talking about.  We did a 37 marker and the other McNeal person we matched so
closely did a 67 marker.  I have worked with this person on the McNeal
genealogy recently and we believe there were 3 or 4 brothers.  We can
identify 3 brothers, John, James and Henry.  My husband is from James, the
person with the 67 markers is from John and this new one is from Henry.  It
looks very promising that our research is correct.  I did send her an email
to clarify how many markers she ordered.  We are waiting for the next sale
to upgrade ours to a 67.  It has taken me 10 years to identify which McNeal
family my husband came from and a lot of it was hunches we have proved
correct...Wm. McNeal served in the same CSA company as our William McNeal
Jr.'s mother's father. They came from the same area. A couple of census
records for Jr. and his mother, a letter my mother in law wrote about the
little she knew about her father's family.And a few other bits and
pieces.  It was not helpful when our Jr's. marriage record said "the man has
no father." written by the bride's father.  

 

I still try to understand DNA but do not get into it too much as my aging
brain cannot absorb it all.  

 

Elaine

 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Emailing: Obit Manuel Jose Fraga 1836

[Marilyn Thompson]

Very interesting, Thanks for posting



On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Sam Koester  wrote:

> Mary;  How interesting!  I had no idea midwifes had this power..  Thanks
> for sharing, Sam in CA
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Mary Bordi
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:51 PM
> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Emailing: Obit Manuel Jose Fraga 1836***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> On Sep 12, 2012, at 1:33 PM, Altino Demelo 
> wrote:
>
> ** **
>
> Sam, think that in instances where a baby is close to death, the priest is
> called quickly to baptize the infant. I don't think a midwife is allowed to
> baptize a child.
>
> ** **
>
> For the record--
>
> ** **
>
> (From Catholic Encyclopedia at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10287a.htm)
> 
>
> ** **
>
> As regards the sacrament of 
> baptism the
> office of midwives is of the highest importance. On them
> frequently devolves the duty  of
> conferring thissacrament, under circumstances where no other 
> person's ministration
> is possible. Hence, the Churchhas
> always been most solicitious concerning the character of midwives and their
> instruction in thisreligious duty.
> Canonists teach that women  who
> undertake the office of midwife are bound under mortal 
> sin to
> learn the methods and requirements of valid 
> baptism,
> as in case of necessity this 
> dutyfrequently devolves upon
> them. There has been much legislation on this subject in various 
> diocesan
> synods , whose canons place
> special obligations  on 
> parish
>  priests  and midwives. The
> former are reminded that, as midwives in conferring 
> baptism act in
> place of the parish  
> priest,
> he is strictly bound to in form himself whether they have sufficient
> knowledge  to administer
> the sacramentvalidly. Some 
> diocesan
>  synods  require
> that midwives, before being approved for 
> duty,
> take an oath that
> they will labor to procure the spiritual safety of infant and mother. When
> a new-born child has been 
> baptized by
> a midwife, the parish  
> priest must
> inquire carefully whether she had the properintention and administered
> the rite according to the prescriptions of the 
> Church.
> If there is anyreason to doubt,
> the baptism  is to be
> repeated conditionally (Catch. Rom., II, ii, § 43); but if it
> becertain that the sacrament was properly conferred it may not be repeated
> (c. Majores, 3 de bapt; Conc. Trid. Sess. VI, can. ix), and only the
> other ceremonies are to be supplied by the 
> parish
>  priest . 
>
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