[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Rose Andrade Trombus/Trombas - Fayal

[Tomas Leal]

I may have some connection by marriage with Rose Trambas (the spelling I 
have). Her huband, Jose Abreu, may be the nephew of my grandfather, Joao 
Silveira Leal.

Jose Abreu settled in the Mission San Jose area of Fremont. In the late 
1920s, my grandmother was very ill and my father and his slightly older 
sister went to live with "Uncle Joe" (even though he was actually a first 
cousin) and Aunt Rose for a time. I have a few photographs of Joe and Rose 
leaving for their honeymoon and some other photos of family gatherings in 
Fremont, though I don't know everyone in these photos, but in one photo a 
woman standing next to Jose Abreu looks very much like the woman in the 
photos of Jose and Rose leaving for their honeymoon. I also have a copy of 
Jose Abreu's passport photo with his signature on it but no date.

I don't have life dates for Jose Abreu, but 1897 could be correct, as the 
next child in the family, Manuel, was born in 1900. Manuel I knew as a 
child but never Jose for some reason.They were born in Flamengos, Fayal, 
and emigrated, I assume, in their late teens, probably under the 
sponsorship of my grandfather's oldest brother Antonio (1869-1939), who was 
the first of the Leals to come to California

In this particular case, Rose Trambas Abreu died and Jose remarried later 
to Minnie Andrade. Again, I have no life dates for any of them,nor marriage 
dates.

It would be wonderful if these photos are of the Rose Trambas you're 
looking for. Unfortunately, the Azoreans seemed limited on the number of 
names they used with their children, so there are so many duplicates. If 
you think my Jose Abreau is the one who married your Rose Trambas, I'd be 
happy to send you electronic copies of the photos I have. Also, I have a 
large pdf file of the Leal family tree, broken down and expanded according 
to my grandfather's and his sibilings' branches.Unfortunately, no one in my 
family who would have had any first-hand acquaintance with Jose or Rose is 
still alive. I have already met with Antonio's daughter, Marie Leal Pine, 
her husband, Vincent Pine, and their four children (one of whom went to 
school for a time with another member of this list, Susan Vargas Murphy), 
trying to gather as much information as they had but though they had some 
photos for me they had no dates.

Even with such sketchy information, I'm happy to work with you on filling 
in whatever blanks--assuming my Jose Abreu is the person married to your 
Rose Trambas.

Tomas Leal

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil

[Pam Santos]

I have Tavares a Manuel Tavares who married Theresa Cordeiro in Oct 1686,
his parents Manuel Tavares and Maria de Lima

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Margaret Vicente  wrote:

> Geneva,
> All these names are very common in most places. Without breaking them down
> and name of place where marriage or birth may have taken place it's not
> possible to get started.  For example: Manuel Cabeceiras who did he marry?
> Where did the marriage take place?  Where was he born...does he have
> children?,  what are his children's name (s), birth place, etc.
>
> For example; my 8th ggrandfather's name was Manuel Cabeceiras, he married
> Joana Cabral (my 8th ggm) in Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada.  They had a daughter
> Maria Cabral or Cabeceiras (my 7th ggm) married to Andre Gonçalves (my 7th
> ggf) on June 30, 1697 and one of their children as Margarida de Sousa (my
> 6th ggm), and so on.
>
>
> I also have Ana Francisca Pires married to Manuel da Costa Jan 3 1734 in
> Sao Jose...they are also my 8th ggparents.
>
> Margaret Vicente
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM, GENEVA wrote:
>
>> I am looking for Conceicao de Sousa born abt 1890, Anna de Sousa born abt
>> 1892, Teresa Dias born Dec 10, 1867, Manuel Cabral born abt 1894, (Children
>> of Rosa dos Santos Dias and Antonio Cabral) Maria Cabral born abt 1897,
>> Antonio Cabral, born abt 1902, Rosa Cabral born abt 1903, Joaquim Cabral &
>> Francisca de Jesus de Sousa, Alvaro Jose Pereira & Joana Maria Jose, Manuel
>> Cabral & Maria do Nascimento de Sousa, Francisca da Carmo Cabral born july
>> 7, 1776 & Manoel Da Costa born November 24, 1793, Jose De Soiousa born abt
>> 1760 & Victoria de Santo Andre Cabeceiras born abt 1760,Manuel Pereira &
>> Maria Rosa, Bonifacio Jose & rosa Maria, Luis Raposo & Antonia Jacintha,
>> Manuel Dias & Josefa Fransica, Joaquim Jose Soares, Joao de Souza
>> Cabeceiras, Manuel Cabeceiras, Antonio Da Costa  & Ana do Amaral, Joao da
>> Costa, Manuel Da Costa, Ana francisca Pires, Antonio Soares, Quiteria de
>> jesus Francisca Martins, Maria Moniz, Jose Moniz Machado born abt 1762, Ana
>> Jacinta Luisa Moniz born abt 1763, Rosa Maria Machado born abt 1740, Joao
>> Costa pimentel & Ana Dos Anjos, Manuel Pires & Isabel de benevides, Antonio
>> Soares & Antonia de Sousa,Manuel Martins & Lenor de Vasconcelos, Domingos
>> da Costa & Maria de Sequeira, Goncalo de Sousa & Maria Ferreira, Joao
>> Machado & Barbara de benevides, Antonio Soares & Antonia de Sousa, Manuel
>> Ferreira tavares & lenor da Rosa, Domingos Jorge and Ana borges, Andre
>> pereira & Maria Machado, Jose Lindo de Sousa and Apolonia de Matos born abt
>> 1650.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> Geneva,
>>
>> I have most of those surnames in my family Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada.
>> If you email the particulars of the family you're looking for I will
>> check it out.
>>
>> Margaret Vicente
>>
>>
>> On 3/18/13, GENEVA  wrote:
>> > They are common names in many parts of portugal. If you have the first
>> names
>> > I do have some information that might be helpful to you.
>> >
>> > - Original Message -
>> >  Hi Geneva,
>> >
>> > My family name includes de Souza and Dias but I still haven't been able
>> to
>> > find what part of Sao Miguel they came from.
>> >
>> > Gail E.
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On
>> Behalf Of
>> > ggervais1...@centurylink.net
>> > Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 6:46 AM
>> > To: Azores Genealogy
>> > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil
>> >
>> > Hi:
>> > Is anyone researching the Cabral family from Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada,
>> which
>> > includes surnames of Dias, Pereira, da costa, de Sousa, Soares, Raposo,
>> > Jose, Moniz, Cabeceiras, Francisca, Pimentel, Quarsma, de Arruda,
>> > Rodrigues,
>> > Matos, Teixeira, benevides, Martins, Tavares.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Geneva Cook-Gervais
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.  Follow the confirmation
>> directions
>> > when they arrive.
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>> > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the
>> right
>> > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>> membership."
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Opinion on a hard to read name

[mnk]

Dano,
I think you need to take another look...
mnk
On Sunday, March 17, 2013 3:07:00 PM UTC-5, Altino wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I have a record that has a name that's difficult to read. I've been able 
> to make out the groom's name and his mother as well as the bride and her 
> parents, but the groom's father is difficult to figure out. I'm attaching 
> the record and have circled the groom's father.
>
> Hopefully with the opinions of the group i can come to some kind of 
> consensus.
>
> Thanks everyone.
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Opinion on a hard to read name

[Dano]

The name is perfectly clear to me. The first rule in researching any document, 
is that one needs to view the "entire" document, so that all information is 
seen in context. Everyone on this thread is focusing on just a part of a name 
that they have construed to be an abbreviation for the given name Manuel - 
when, in fact, the given name is actually "Mathias" (that's lazy research, and 
it will result in a lot of wasted time, dead ends, and frustration for the 
researcher). 
Right after the given name, Mathias, the surname is listed "de Barbosa da 
Costa." Perhaps those who think they see a "Mel Pires" ought to go back and 
review the "entire" line in question...

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil

[GENEVA]

Not the same wife, Thanks 

- Original Message -
I have Tavares a Manuel Tavares who married Theresa Cordeiro in Oct 1686, his 
parents Manuel Tavares and Maria de Lima 


On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Margaret Vicente < margaretvice...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



Geneva,  
All these names are very common in most places. Without breaking them down and 
name of place where marriage or birth may have taken place it's not possible to 
get started.  For example: Manuel Cabeceiras who did he marry? Where did the 
marriage take place?  Where was he born...does he have children?,  what are his 
children's name (s), birth place, etc. 



For example; my 8th ggrandfather's name was Manuel Cabeceiras, he married Joana 
Cabral (my 8th ggm) in Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada.  They had a daughter Maria 
Cabral or Cabeceiras (my 7th ggm) married to Andre Gonçalves (my 7th ggf) on 
June 30, 1697 and one of their children as Margarida de Sousa (my 6th ggm), and 
so on.   




I also have Ana Francisca Pires married to Manuel da Costa Jan 3 1734 in Sao 
Jose...they are also my 8th ggparents.   


Margaret Vicente 





On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM, GENEVA < ggervais1...@centurylink.net > wrote: 


I am looking for Conceicao de Sousa born abt 1890, Anna de Sousa born abt 1892, 
Teresa Dias born Dec 10, 1867, Manuel Cabral born abt 1894, (Children of Rosa 
dos Santos Dias and Antonio Cabral) Maria Cabral born abt 1897, Antonio Cabral, 
born abt 1902, Rosa Cabral born abt 1903, Joaquim Cabral & Francisca de Jesus 
de Sousa, Alvaro Jose Pereira & Joana Maria Jose, Manuel Cabral & Maria do 
Nascimento de Sousa, Francisca da Carmo Cabral born july 7, 1776 & Manoel Da 
Costa born November 24, 1793, Jose De Soiousa born abt 1760 & Victoria de Santo 
Andre Cabeceiras born abt 1760,Manuel Pereira & Maria Rosa, Bonifacio Jose & 
rosa Maria, Luis Raposo & Antonia Jacintha, Manuel Dias & Josefa Fransica, 
Joaquim Jose Soares, Joao de Souza Cabeceiras, Manuel Cabeceiras, Antonio Da 
Costa  & Ana do Amaral, Joao da Costa, Manuel Da Costa, Ana francisca Pires, 
Antonio Soares, Quiteria de jesus Francisca Martins, Maria Moniz, Jose Moniz 
Machado born abt 1762, Ana Jacinta Luisa Moniz born abt 1763, Rosa Maria 
Machado born abt 1740, Joao Costa pimentel & Ana Dos Anjos, Manuel Pires & 
Isabel de benevides, Antonio Soares & Antonia de Sousa,Manuel Martins & Lenor 
de Vasconcelos, Domingos da Costa & Maria de Sequeira, Goncalo de Sousa & Maria 
Ferreira, Joao Machado & Barbara de benevides, Antonio Soares & Antonia de 
Sousa, Manuel Ferreira tavares & lenor da Rosa, Domingos Jorge and Ana borges, 
Andre pereira & Maria Machado, Jose Lindo de Sousa and Apolonia de Matos born 
abt 1650. 



- Original Message - 
Geneva, 

I have most of those surnames in my family Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. 
If you email the particulars of the family you're looking for I will 
check it out. 

Margaret Vicente 


On 3/18/13, GENEVA < ggervais1...@centurylink.net > wrote: 
> They are common names in many parts of portugal. If you have the first names 
> I do have some information that might be helpful to you. 
> 
> - Original Message - 
>  Hi Geneva, 
> 
> My family name includes de Souza and Dias but I still haven't been able to 
> find what part of Sao Miguel they came from. 
> 
> Gail E. 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto: azores@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of 
> ggervais1...@centurylink.net 
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 6:46 AM 
> To: Azores Genealogy 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil 
> 
> Hi: 
> Is anyone researching the Cabral family from Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada, which 
> includes surnames of Dias, Pereira, da costa, de Sousa, Soares, Raposo, 
> Jose, Moniz, Cabeceiras, Francisca, Pimentel, Quarsma, de Arruda, 
> Rodrigues, 
> Matos, Teixeira, benevides, Martins, Tavares. 
> 
> Thanks 
> Geneva Cook-Gervais 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil

[GENEVA]

The names that I sent. Where I put a name and said such and such & the name 
followed is the wife. All from Sao Jose area. For instance jJ aquim Cabral 
married Francisca de jesus de sousa. That's all I know about these people. 



Antonio Cabecceiras married Francisca Rodrigues, Sao Jose but don't know when. 
They had two children Joao de Souza Cabeceiras and Manuel Cabeceiras, that's 
all I know. 


- Original Message -

Geneva,  
All these names are very common in most places. Without breaking them down and 
name of place where marriage or birth may have taken place it's not possible to 
get started.  For example: Manuel Cabeceiras who did he marry? Where did the 
marriage take place?  Where was he born...does he have children?,  what are his 
children's name (s), birth place, etc. 



For example; my 8th ggrandfather's name was Manuel Cabeceiras, he married Joana 
Cabral (my 8th ggm) in Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada.  They had a daughter Maria 
Cabral or Cabeceiras (my 7th ggm) married to Andre Gonçalves (my 7th ggf) on 
June 30, 1697 and one of their children as Margarida de Sousa (my 6th ggm), and 
so on.   




I also have Ana Francisca Pires married to Manuel da Costa Jan 3 1734 in Sao 
Jose...they are also my 8th ggparents.   


Margaret Vicente 



On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM, GENEVA < ggervais1...@centurylink.net > wrote: 


I am looking for Conceicao de Sousa born abt 1890, Anna de Sousa born abt 1892, 
Teresa Dias born Dec 10, 1867, Manuel Cabral born abt 1894, (Children of Rosa 
dos Santos Dias and Antonio Cabral) Maria Cabral born abt 1897, Antonio Cabral, 
born abt 1902, Rosa Cabral born abt 1903, Joaquim Cabral & Francisca de Jesus 
de Sousa, Alvaro Jose Pereira & Joana Maria Jose, Manuel Cabral & Maria do 
Nascimento de Sousa, Francisca da Carmo Cabral born july 7, 1776 & Manoel Da 
Costa born November 24, 1793, Jose De Soiousa born abt 1760 & Victoria de Santo 
Andre Cabeceiras born abt 1760,Manuel Pereira & Maria Rosa, Bonifacio Jose & 
rosa Maria, Luis Raposo & Antonia Jacintha, Manuel Dias & Josefa Fransica, 
Joaquim Jose Soares, Joao de Souza Cabeceiras, Manuel Cabeceiras, Antonio Da 
Costa  & Ana do Amaral, Joao da Costa, Manuel Da Costa, Ana francisca Pires, 
Antonio Soares, Quiteria de jesus Francisca Martins, Maria Moniz, Jose Moniz 
Machado born abt 1762, Ana Jacinta Luisa Moniz born abt 1763, Rosa Maria 
Machado born abt 1740, Joao Costa pimentel & Ana Dos Anjos, Manuel Pires & 
Isabel de benevides, Antonio Soares & Antonia de Sousa,Manuel Martins & Lenor 
de Vasconcelos, Domingos da Costa & Maria de Sequeira, Goncalo de Sousa & Maria 
Ferreira, Joao Machado & Barbara de benevides, Antonio Soares & Antonia de 
Sousa, Manuel Ferreira tavares & lenor da Rosa, Domingos Jorge and Ana borges, 
Andre pereira & Maria Machado, Jose Lindo de Sousa and Apolonia de Matos born 
abt 1650. 



- Original Message - 
Geneva, 

I have most of those surnames in my family Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. 
If you email the particulars of the family you're looking for I will 
check it out. 

Margaret Vicente 


On 3/18/13, GENEVA < ggervais1...@centurylink.net > wrote: 
> They are common names in many parts of portugal. If you have the first names 
> I do have some information that might be helpful to you. 
> 
> - Original Message - 
>  Hi Geneva, 
> 
> My family name includes de Souza and Dias but I still haven't been able to 
> find what part of Sao Miguel they came from. 
> 
> Gail E. 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto: azores@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of 
> ggervais1...@centurylink.net 
> Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 6:46 AM 
> To: Azores Genealogy 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil 
> 
> Hi: 
> Is anyone researching the Cabral family from Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada, which 
> includes surnames of Dias, Pereira, da costa, de Sousa, Soares, Raposo, 
> Jose, Moniz, Cabeceiras, Francisca, Pimentel, Quarsma, de Arruda, 
> Rodrigues, 
> Matos, Teixeira, benevides, Martins, Tavares. 
> 
> Thanks 
> Geneva Cook-Gervais 
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com .  Follow the confirmation directions 
> when they arrive. 
> For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Opinion on a hard to read name att. Altino

[Marcio Borba]

Altino,
I read Mel Pires=Manuel Pires and nothing else. The closest name to Barbosa 
that I see here is Barbara, which is Manuel Pires wife.
Did you try to find a marriage between a Manuel Pires and Barbara da Costa? I 
took a quick glance in Nordeste I found a few Barbara da Costa but with no 
Manuel Pires but found one with a Manuel Furtado in 1667. I think to find more 
on your MAnuel Pires and Barbara da Costa you would need to find the childrens 
birth and take it from there 
Marcio Borba 
Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com

--- Em ter, 19/3/13, Dano  escreveu:

De: Dano 
Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Opinion on a hard to read name
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Data: Terça-feira, 19 de Março de 2013, 16:05

The name is perfectly clear to me. The first rule in researching any document, 
is that one needs to view the "entire" document, so that all information is 
seen in context. Everyone on this thread is focusing on just a part of a name 
that they have construed to be an abbreviation for the given name Manuel - 
when, in fact, the given name is actually "Mathias" (that's lazy research, and 
it will result in a lot of wasted time, dead ends, and frustration for the 
researcher). 
Right after the given name, Mathias, the surname is listed "de Barbosa da 
Costa." Perhaps those who think they see a "Mel Pires" ought to go back and 
review the "entire" line in question...

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil

[rondo ranch]

I have Souza Man marrying a Caetano woman.  They lived in the Hanford, CA area.
D


-Original Message-
>From: Gail Elizares 
>Sent: Mar 18, 2013 10:57 AM
>To: azores@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil
>
>My gg-grandfather was Jose de Souza who married Maria Ignacio, my
>g-grandfather had several names so I don't know which is correct, it was
>either Quitao, Caetano, and his buried name Keaton de Souza who married
>Maria Fereira.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gail
>
>-Original Message-
>From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
>GENEVA
>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 4:17 AM
>To: azores@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil
>
>They are common names in many parts of portugal. If you have the first names
>I do have some information that might be helpful to you.
>
>- Original Message -
> Hi Geneva,
>
>My family name includes de Souza and Dias but I still haven't been able to
>find what part of Sao Miguel they came from.
>
>Gail E.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
>ggervais1...@centurylink.net
>Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 6:46 AM
>To: Azores Genealogy
>Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil
>
>Hi:
>Is anyone researching the Cabral family from Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada, which
>includes surnames of Dias, Pereira, da costa, de Sousa, Soares, Raposo,
>Jose, Moniz, Cabeceiras, Francisca, Pimentel, Quarsma, de Arruda, Rodrigues,
>Matos, Teixeira, benevides, Martins, Tavares.
>
>Thanks
>Geneva Cook-Gervais
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Thanks!

[Gail Elizares]

I just want to say thank you very much.  "E"  I believe you were the one who
gave me a date of a possible Mary Dias that died on May 1, 1933.  Well I
went on ancestry on that possible date which took me to find a grave.  She
is buried at St. Mary's.  I called them and they didn't have much info so I
ordered the death certificate and it is my Aunty and Uncle that I was
looking for.  

 

I don't know why when I tried to order the death certificate within that
year, they said they couldn't come up with that name. Maybe I should get a
refund, LOL.  Anyway they buried under the name Mary S. and Jose S. Deas,
but the death certificate says Dias.

 

Again thank you for solving another mystery for me!

 

Gail E.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Opinion on a hard to read name

[Pam Santos]

This reminds of this picture of an old lady, where it could be seen by
others as a young lady. I showed this photo to my mom and she seen the old
lady, I said don't you see the young lady? She said NO, I drew with my
finger the outline of the young ladies face. She still couldn't see it. In
other words everyone might see something different. I don't think you
should assume we didn't go thru the entire document or that we are just
focusing on the one line.There is some parts I can't read though. It would
be better to state how you came to this.

I came to Mel Pires, because I blew up the document, if you see how the
priest wrote the L in the wife's fathers name Gonsalo, its the same as the
L in Mel, 2nd Barbara the r in the first part of name is the same r as the
2nd, 3rd after da Costa it says defuntos, if it was just the father it
would say defunto (I could be wrong) plural its defuntos

I don't have a problem with being wrong, I am not perfect nor do I every
say I am. But tell me how or where you see Mathias and what is Mathias
wife's name?

On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Dano  wrote:

> The name is perfectly clear to me. The first rule in researching any
> document, is that one needs to view the "entire" document, so that all
> information is seen in context. Everyone on this thread is focusing on just
> a part of a name that they have construed to be an abbreviation for the
> given name Manuel - when, in fact, the given name is actually "Mathias"
> (that's lazy research, and it will result in a lot of wasted time, dead
> ends, and frustration for the researcher).
> Right after the given name, Mathias, the surname is listed "de Barbosa da
> Costa." Perhaps those who think they see a "Mel Pires" ought to go back and
> review the "entire" line in question...
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED

[jt]

How do I assign a 4th cousin 3 times removed match in ftdna?  The list 
jumps from 4th2R to 5th.  

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Opinion on a hard to read name

[pico]

Pam,You are 100% correct.I don't know what record they were looking at, but if they tried to trace that line (de Barbosa da Costa), they would come up empty. In fact, I don't think there is such thing as "de Barbosa" unless that's also a location, but I have never seen any Barbosa family using "de" before the name. That makes it toponymic.As Marcio said, the way to continue is look earlier for children by this couple, Manuel Pires and wife. Also look for more marriages where one of their other children married. One might find the father listed as Manuel Pires Arruda, or something like that.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Opinion on a hard to read name
From: Pam Santos 
Date: Tue, March 19, 2013 11:47 am
To: azores@googlegroups.com

This reminds of this picture of an old lady, where it could be seen by others as a young lady. I showed this photo to my mom and she seen the old lady, I said don't you see the young lady? She said NO, I drew with my finger the outline of the young ladies face. She still couldn't see it. In other words everyone might see something different. I don't think you should assume we didn't go thru the entire document or that we are just focusing on the one line.There is some parts I can't read though. It would be better to state how you came to this. I came to Mel Pires, because I blew up the document, if you see how the priest wrote the L in the wife's fathers name Gonsalo, its the same as the L in Mel, 2nd Barbara the r in the first part of name is the same r as the 2nd, 3rd after da Costa it says defuntos, if it was just the father it would say defunto (I could be wrong) plural its defuntos I don't have a problem with being wrong, I am not perfect nor do I every say I am. But tell me how or where you see Mathias and what is Mathias wife's name?On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Dano  wrote: The name is perfectly clear to me. The first rule in researching any document, is that one needs to view the "entire" document, so that all information is seen in context. Everyone on this thread is focusing on just a part of a name that they have construed to be an abbreviation for the given name Manuel - when, in fact, the given name is actually "Mathias" (that's lazy research, and it will result in a lot of wasted time, dead ends, and frustration for the researcher). Right after the given name, Mathias, the surname is listed "de Barbosa da Costa." Perhaps those who think they see a "Mel Pires" ought to go back and review the "entire" line in question... 





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED

[pico]

There isn't such a choice.I have a link to another Terceira researcher, Danny Bertao, whose link is more remote than they offer.I think I have him as a 6th cousin, when in fact I think the closest I found was 8th. Well, I didn't want to throw away my connection, so I just put the most remote possible choice. That might be how you can do it, even though it won't be totally accurate.As Cheri has mentioned many times, and as I have discovered constantly, the postulated degree of relationship for those of us with Azores ancestry is usually way further than projected. A recent cousin and friend of mine, Fil Simas with ancestors from both Lajes do Pico and Sao Roque do Pico, shows as a 4th cousin projection, but I think it was a 5th or 6th between us.And I have so many matches with people whose ancestors are from the Lajes do Pico area and where the records run out in about 1734, leaving us with just speculative connections based only on surnames. But they are showing as 4th or 5th and since I have traced them, I know it can't be closer than 8th or 9th.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com


 Original Message 
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED
From: jt 
Date: Tue, March 19, 2013 11:50 am
To: azores@googlegroups.com

How do I assign a 4th cousin 3 times removed match in ftdna?  The list jumps from 4th2R to 5th.   --  - 





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil

[Gail Elizares]

Caetano was supposedly his first name.  It has been a difficult journey
since the names keep changing.  I still have to find 3 brothers yet from my
grandfather.  I know two of them for sure were in Alameda County, the family
thinks they never got married so hopefully it will easier to find.  The only
info I have on the third is, his last child that I know of was born on Oahu.
I don't know if he died there or moved on to California like the rest of
them.  Hopefully by the end of the year I can find the rest of the family.

Gail E.

Researching DeLuz, DeSouza, DaCamara, Oliveira Branco, Barboza, Amaral,
Fereira



-Original Message-
From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
rondo ranch
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 7:50 AM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil

I have Souza Man marrying a Caetano woman.  They lived in the Hanford, CA
area.
D


-Original Message-
>From: Gail Elizares 
>Sent: Mar 18, 2013 10:57 AM
>To: azores@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil
>
>My gg-grandfather was Jose de Souza who married Maria Ignacio, my 
>g-grandfather had several names so I don't know which is correct, it 
>was either Quitao, Caetano, and his buried name Keaton de Souza who 
>married Maria Fereira.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gail
>
>-Original Message-
>From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On 
>Behalf Of GENEVA
>Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 4:17 AM
>To: azores@googlegroups.com
>Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil
>
>They are common names in many parts of portugal. If you have the first 
>names I do have some information that might be helpful to you.
>
>- Original Message -
> Hi Geneva,
>
>My family name includes de Souza and Dias but I still haven't been able 
>to find what part of Sao Miguel they came from.
>
>Gail E.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On 
>Behalf Of ggervais1...@centurylink.net
>Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 6:46 AM
>To: Azores Genealogy
>Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral Famil
>
>Hi:
>Is anyone researching the Cabral family from Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada, 
>which includes surnames of Dias, Pereira, da costa, de Sousa, Soares, 
>Raposo, Jose, Moniz, Cabeceiras, Francisca, Pimentel, Quarsma, de 
>Arruda, Rodrigues, Matos, Teixeira, benevides, Martins, Tavares.
>
>Thanks
>Geneva Cook-Gervais
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Judy T,

I think it was 2 DNA conferences ago where the admins convinced IT that we
needed more that 1st cousin, 2nd cousin, 3rd cousin, etc.  So they took 1st
through 4th cousins and added once removed and twice removed.  They did not
do this for 5th or 6th.  But we got something.

So, it's your choice if you want to pick 4C2R (4th cousin 2x removed) or
just 4C and make a note of it on your notepad underneath the match's name
that it's really a 4C3R.

There is an option for 5th and 6th cousins.  No options for removed.
Beyond 6th cousins there's a "Distant Cousin" option that I use and on that
little notepad I write the kind of cousin and who our common ancestors
are.  I'm doing the common ancestors on everybody.  I'm starting to see
some of the same matches show up on different DNA accounts (someone matches
my mom on her Logans but is matching my dad on his Bedfords).  The notepad
helps keep me straight!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED

[judy thompson]

Hi Cheri,

I think I like the 4C2R and note it idea. That way if I see a 2R I’ll know it 
might be farther out.  I need to start using the notepad more as I hate having 
to go back and find common ancestors that I already located, and now that I 
have another account to keep track of it is getting really crazy.  I have been 
keeping track of which emails were initially sent so if they don’t respond, I 
know that I did contact them and when.   

Thx for all your tips.  Wish I were as organized as you.

Judy

From: Cheri Mello 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 1:10 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED

Hi Judy T,

I think it was 2 DNA conferences ago where the admins convinced IT that we 
needed more that 1st cousin, 2nd cousin, 3rd cousin, etc.  So they took 1st 
through 4th cousins and added once removed and twice removed.  They did not do 
this for 5th or 6th.  But we got something.

So, it's your choice if you want to pick 4C2R (4th cousin 2x removed) or just 
4C and make a note of it on your notepad underneath the match's name that it's 
really a 4C3R.

There is an option for 5th and 6th cousins.  No options for removed.  Beyond 
6th cousins there's a "Distant Cousin" option that I use and on that little 
notepad I write the kind of cousin and who our common ancestors are.  I'm doing 
the common ancestors on everybody.  I'm starting to see some of the same 
matches show up on different DNA accounts (someone matches my mom on her Logans 
but is matching my dad on his Bedfords).  The notepad helps keep me straight!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
Achada -- 
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED

[pico]

I didn't realize you are Judy Thompson.You are projected as a 5th cousin for my father and for me and it's an example of people with Lajes do Pico ancestry linking to my family, but the link is beyond what the records can prove.The link could come from your Mamão line, or Nicolau de Ávila, maybe Maciel, and Alvernaz, maybe Porto, certainly by Valim and by Simas, but the exact links are unknown.I think all these are combining to show a closer link than reality.You and my father have 26.53 shared CM and the longest block is 10.95, compared to the next match down having 10.81 and is a proven 4th cousin, once removed (list member Mike Gilfilian). I think the reason Mike's projection is accurate is that he has very little other Pico DNA in common and so our link is close enough to show accurately.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com


 Original Message 
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] HOW TO ASSIGN 4TH COUSIN 3 TIMES REMOVED
From: jt 
Date: Tue, March 19, 2013 11:50 am
To: azores@googlegroups.com

How do I assign a 4th cousin 3 times removed match in ftdna?  The list jumps from 4th2R to 5th.   --  





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[AZORES-Genealogy] da Costa in Vila Franca do Campo

[Marcia]

My husband and I, along with cousin Terri from Toronto, have been 
researching Vila Franca do Campo ancestors for several years.  We have 
received a great deal of help from many on this list.  In preparation for 
another trip over this summer, we are trying to get our research ducks in a 
row, so that we focus on the most important gains to be had during our 
visit to the Archivo.   

We hit a road block on one lineage a couple of years back and are at an 
impasse.  We thought we would post the line just in case anyone new has 
joined the group, or anyone else has found additional information.   Here 
you go:

Manuel Jacintho b 15 Oct 1862 - Matrix - Vila Franca do Campo

father - Jose Jacintho b 26 Nov 1826 - Matrix - Vila Franca do Campo

PG - Francisco da Costa b abt 1793 - San Pedro - Vila Franca do Campo (1819 
marriage record says he was 26 years old)
 
PGG - Andre da Costa d 9 March 1833 widower (Maria dos Santos)

We have a lot more detail than all of this, but we are really stuck in not 
finding Francisco da Costa's or Andre da Costa's birth although we have 
combed San Pedro over and over, along with the Matriz.  During this same period 
there are several other records of Andre da Costa married to Maria 
Margarida.  They have overlapping children so we are thinking this is 
another Andre da Costa, not a second marriage.   Thought we post this just 
in case it strikes a new chord for anyone.  

Thanks very much.  

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] da Costa in Vila Franca do Campo

[Pam Santos]

Who was Jose Jacintho's wfie?

On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 4:09 PM, Marcia  wrote:

> My husband and I, along with cousin Terri from Toronto, have been
> researching Vila Franca do Campo ancestors for several years.  We have
> received a great deal of help from many on this list.  In preparation for
> another trip over this summer, we are trying to get our research ducks in
> a row, so that we focus on the most important gains to be had during our
> visit to the Archivo.
>
> We hit a road block on one lineage a couple of years back and are at an
> impasse.  We thought we would post the line just in case anyone new has
> joined the group, or anyone else has found additional information.   Here
> you go:
>
> Manuel Jacintho b 15 Oct 1862 - Matrix - Vila Franca do Campo
>
> father - Jose Jacintho b 26 Nov 1826 - Matrix - Vila Franca do Campo
>
> PG - Francisco da Costa b abt 1793 - San Pedro - Vila Franca do Campo(1819 
> marriage record says he was 26 years old)
>
> PGG - Andre da Costa d 9 March 1833 widower (Maria dos Santos)
>
> We have a lot more detail than all of this, but we are really stuck in not
> finding Francisco da Costa's or Andre da Costa's birth although we have
> combed San Pedro over and over, along with the Matriz.  During this same 
> period
> there are several other records of Andre da Costa married to Maria
> Margarida.  They have overlapping children so we are thinking this is
> another Andre da Costa, not a second marriage.   Thought we post this
> just in case it strikes a new chord for anyone.
>
> Thanks very much.
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Rose Andrade Trombus/Trombas - Fayal

[Lee]

Tomas, 
 
I believe we have a connection as well.  I first discovered a connection to 
Rose Trombas by way her cousin, Antone Lawrence Mendonca (Mendence) listing 
her mother Mrs. Rose Trombas (Trombus per her burial information at St. 
Josephs) as his aunt.  When I started look for Mrs. Rose Trombas I 
discovered there were THREE of them.  One Rose Andrade Trombas born 
1864-1870 who married John Trombas in about 1882 and a daughter who married 
to Joe Abreu/Abrew per the 1930 census of Alameda County, CA.  The other 
Rose Trombas was married Joaquin O. Trombas and immigrated with him in 1902 
under the name of Rosa Amalia Silva - I have tracked this family and have 
ruled them out as the Trombas family I was looking for.
 
At the time of Rose Trombas Abreau's death on January 15, 1941 her mother 
was listed as an "Andrade" - this clinched it for me.  I knew that Antone 
Mendonca's mother was Adelaide (Adelina?) Augusta Andrade of Fayal.  
 
Also, in the 1930 Census; living next door to Joseph Abreu, his wife Rose 
and mother-in-law Rose Trombas were Antone and Clara Abreu.  Joseph Abreu 
was born August 19, 1897 an died in Alameda County, CA on March 12, 1987 - 
mothers maiden name was given as Leal.  Minnie Agnes Andrade Abreu was born 
June 9, 1896 and died in Alamada County on August 18, 1992 - father surname 
was Andrade and mother was Maciel.  Antone Silva Abreu was born Agust 1866 
and died February 13, 1942 (father Abreu and mother was a Vargas) - Clara 
F. Abreu was born May 28, 1861 an died March 20, 1955 (father was an 
Andrade).  I believer Joe Abreu and Rose may have been cousins of sorts due 
to the Andrade connections.
 
All of these people (Rose Andrade Trombas, her husband John 1854 (or 1857) 
-1915 and Rose Trombas Abreu and Joe are all buried in the St. Josephs 
Cemetery in Fremond, CA.
 
I am trying to trace the Andrade (Adelaide and her sister Rose - wonder if 
Clara was another sister?) and the Mendonca family (which was from Graciosa 
- but they immigrated from Fayal per passenger lists).  I have not been 
able to find Rose Andrade or her husband John/Joao in the passenger records 
as of yet.
 
Thus, you can see from the above, why I believe you and I have a connection 
of sorts.  
 
Hope I haven't confused anyone - if I have, please let me know.
 
Lee Estep, WV
 

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 9:08:08 AM UTC-4, Tomas Leal wrote:

> I may have some connection by marriage with Rose Trambas (the spelling I 
> have). Her huband, Jose Abreu, may be the nephew of my grandfather, Joao 
> Silveira Leal.
>
> Jose Abreu settled in the Mission San Jose area of Fremont. In the late 
> 1920s, my grandmother was very ill and my father and his slightly older 
> sister went to live with "Uncle Joe" (even though he was actually a first 
> cousin) and Aunt Rose for a time. I have a few photographs of Joe and Rose 
> leaving for their honeymoon and some other photos of family gatherings in 
> Fremont, though I don't know everyone in these photos, but in one photo a 
> woman standing next to Jose Abreu looks very much like the woman in the 
> photos of Jose and Rose leaving for their honeymoon. I also have a copy of 
> Jose Abreu's passport photo with his signature on it but no date.
>
> I don't have life dates for Jose Abreu, but 1897 could be correct, as the 
> next child in the family, Manuel, was born in 1900. Manuel I knew as a 
> child but never Jose for some reason.They were born in Flamengos, Fayal, 
> and emigrated, I assume, in their late teens, probably under the 
> sponsorship of my grandfather's oldest brother Antonio (1869-1939), who was 
> the first of the Leals to come to California
>
> In this particular case, Rose Trambas Abreu died and Jose remarried later 
> to Minnie Andrade. Again, I have no life dates for any of them,nor marriage 
> dates.
>
> It would be wonderful if these photos are of the Rose Trambas you're 
> looking for. Unfortunately, the Azoreans seemed limited on the number of 
> names they used with their children, so there are so many duplicates. If 
> you think my Jose Abreau is the one who married your Rose Trambas, I'd be 
> happy to send you electronic copies of the photos I have. Also, I have a 
> large pdf file of the Leal family tree, broken down and expanded according 
> to my grandfather's and his sibilings' branches.Unfortunately, no one in my 
> family who would have had any first-hand acquaintance with Jose or Rose is 
> still alive. I have already met with Antonio's daughter, Marie Leal Pine, 
> her husband, Vincent Pine, and their four children (one of whom went to 
> school for a time with another member of this list, Susan Vargas Murphy), 
> trying to gather as much information as they had but though they had some 
> photos for me they had no dates.
>
> Even with such sketchy information, I'm happy to work with you on filling 
> in whatever blanks--assuming my Jose Abreu is the person married to your 
> Rose Trambas.
>
> Tomas Leal
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] da Costa in Vila Franca do Campo

[Marcio Borba]

Hi,
The info you posted seems a little confusing. I also have ancestors from Matriz 
and S. Pedro Vila Franca but since I don't the records aren't online I can't do 
much. I have heard thru people in the list that there are some records missing 
in S. Pedro, but they would have to tell you the years cause I can't remember.
Are you in Toronto area?

Marcio Borba 
Feel the Azores... visit http://azorean-roots.blogspot.com

--- Em qua, 20/3/13, Marcia  escreveu:

De: Marcia 
Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] da Costa in Vila Franca do Campo
Para: azores@googlegroups.com
Data: Quarta-feira, 20 de Março de 2013, 0:09

My husband and I, along with cousin Terri from Toronto, have been researching 
Vila Franca do Campo ancestors for several years.  We have received a great 
deal of help from many on this list.  In preparation for another trip over this 
summer, we are trying to get our research ducks in a row, so that we focus on 
the most important gains to be had during our visit to the Archivo.   

We hit a road block on one lineage a couple of years back and are at an 
impasse.  We thought we would post the line just in case anyone new has joined 
the group, or anyone else has found additional information.   Here you go:

Manuel Jacintho b 15 Oct 1862 - Matrix - Vila Franca do Campo

father - Jose Jacintho b 26 Nov 1826  - Matrix - Vila Franca do Campo

PG - Francisco da Costa b abt 1793  - San Pedro - Vila Franca do Campo (1819 
marriage record says he was 26 years old)
 
PGG - Andre da Costa d 9 March 1833 widower (Maria dos Santos)

We have a lot more detail than all of this, but we are really stuck in not 
finding Francisco da Costa's or Andre da Costa's birth although we have combed 
San Pedro over and over, along with the Matriz.  During this same period there 
are several other records of Andre da Costa married to Maria Margarida.  They 
have overlapping children so we are thinking this is another Andre da Costa, 
not a second marriage.   Thought we post this just in case it strikes a new 
chord for anyone.  

Thanks very much.  




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[AZORES-Genealogy] Bad rainy weather in the Azores

["E" Sharp]

Have any of you been following the bad rain they are having particularly on
Sao Miguel and Terceira?  You can read some about it here:

http://www.portugaldailyview.com/whats-new/azores-storms-to-continue-after-deadly-landslide-flights-cancelled

"E"

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Thanks!

["E" Sharp]

Thank you, Gail.  It always make me happy when listers are able to glean
more family info and can take their family research further back.  I don't
know how they come up with some of these spellings but not too long ago I
also helped another girl with her Dyers family and putting 2 and 2 together
I figured it had to be Dias...go figure.  She had a very successful search
finding living family members.

There are so many knowledgeable, very helpful people on this list and those
searching are very lucky.  Don't be afraid to ask.

"E"
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Gail Elizares wrote:

> I just want to say thank you very much.  “E”  I believe you were the one
> who gave me a date of a possible Mary Dias that died on May 1, 1933.  Well
> I went on ancestry on that possible date which took me to find a grave.
> She is buried at St. Mary’s.  I called them and they didn’t have much info
> so I ordered the death certificate and it is my Aunty and Uncle that I was
> looking for.  
>
> ** **
>
> I don’t know why when I tried to order the death certificate within that
> year, they said they couldn’t come up with that name. Maybe I should get a
> refund, LOL.  Anyway they buried under the name Mary S. and Jose S. Deas,
> but the death certificate says Dias.
>
> ** **
>
> Again thank you for solving another mystery for me!
>
> ** **
>
> Gail E.
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Melo Family (deMello, Mello)

[natelmello]

Shirley,
 
I was just going through some of our family history this weekend.  My 
grandfather (edward mello) His brother (james) and has 2 other brothers and 
oldest sister Elvita grew up outside Cambridge.  Elvita who is in her late 
80's has a lot of great Mello pictures, post cards and letters from the 
late 1800 and early 1900. I believe my great grandfather *Fransico was 
married 2x*.(this was a shock to my grandfather) His first wife died at 32 
of a heart attack. He then remarried and had my grandfather and his 
sibilings.  Will try to upload pics.
 
Best Regards
-Nate Mello

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] da Costa in Vila Franca do Campo

[Cheri Mello]

Marcio,

The marriages for the Sao Pedro church of Vila Franca are missing part of
the 1770s.  They are missing on film and they are missing in the actual
book.  When I went to the archive with Shirley Allegre, we asked to see the
book.  It had been rebound and the pages jump from page A to page G or
whatever.  The lost pages are not at the back of the book.  So, hopefully,
they are "lost" in another book and no one has yet discovered it (wishful
thinking), or they fell out and the priest used them for kindling one night.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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