Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[Cheri Mello]

Yes, Elaine, when I have a female taking the father's surname and the male
taking the mother's, I also list them that way. Like you said, they will
show up under the same mother and father. Cheri

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes

[Mary Bordi]

On May 18, 2013, at 9:27 AM, Vivian Christy  wrote:

>  
> I do have Sao Jorge ancestry which is my Mothers (Gertrude J Joseph) Mother 
> (Marie G. Holmes) side of the family which is one of my brick walls.  I do 
> not know the town they came from in Sao Jorge. 

I have seen Homem in the Norte Grande area--Nossa Senhora das Neves parish 
which also includes Santo Antonio and Ribeira da Areia. But I have not made any 
connection with them. 

Mary

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

["E" Sharp]

Me too, which is why I recently bought a new HP laptop from HP with Windows
7 (couldn't find one at a local store anywhere) and installed my FTM 16(32)
with no problems.  We also installed Microsoft Office Professional 2010
32/64.  I wrote to Ancestry and they told me that the newest version of FTM
(64) will not work on Windows 7 it will only work on Windows 8 and like
Celeste, I do not like the newer versions either.

Re current subject - You also have the instances when the males took the
mother's maiden name and the females took the father's surname?  I just put
them is as they were listed since they still show up under the same mother
and father.

"E"



On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 6:19 PM,  wrote:

> **
> I agree totally.
>
>
>  In a message dated 5/18/2013 5:21:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> ccgran...@yahoo.com writes:
>
> I have not fund the newer versions of FTM to my liking so I plan to use
> version 16 until I no longer use a genealogy program.
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[GGDGEN]

I agree totally.
 
 
 
In a message dated 5/18/2013 5:21:22 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
ccgran...@yahoo.com writes:

I have not fund the newer versions of FTM to my  liking so I plan to use 
version 16 until I no longer use a genealogy  program.

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[celeste perry]

   I too, changed my names to having the index look at first names.  I did this 
several years ago and have had muh better luck finding someone in my database 
if I look at the first name and scroll down through all the possbilities that 
match the name for which I am searching.  
   I have used FTM since I began looking into my ancestors and it did me a 
while to change to searching by first name.  In FTM, you add \\ after the name 
in the family group sheet.  When you have done this for your entire database, 
the index is by first name.
   I did have some difficulty getting my new computer to accept my version 
16/2006 of FTM; however, it was possible to get it done.  I have not fund the 
newer versions of FTM to my liking so I plan to use version 16 until I no 
longer use a genealogy program.
Celeste, Hayward, CA
Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com
  


 From: Cheri Mello 
To: Azores Genealogy  
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names
  


I just search my genealogy program by first names.


Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
Achada 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Looking for direction

[Pam Santos]

Your very welcome and glad to be able to help.


On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Vicki Rabe  wrote:

> Hello, Hermano, Pam, Cheri and everyone,
>
> I just want to say that I’m so thankful for all the help everyone has been
> giving me.  To start to track back where you’re family came from is well
> surreal.  I’m a bit addicted and want to work on this all the time.  Not
> possible but loving every minute that I do it.  It’s so exciting to see
> what doors open when you get a little piece of information.  My family on
> both sides seemed to not want to share info so it’s been exciting to see a
> bit into the old world of my family.  Well anyway I just want to thank
> everyone from the bottom of my heart for the help you have so kindly given
> me.  You are an amazing group of people and I’m really enjoying being just
> a little part of that.  Thank you,  Vic
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Hermano C. Pires
> *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2013 5:33 PM
> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Looking for direction
>
> ** **
>
> Vicky
>  believe that Pam and Cheri have it righ.
> They certainly are from Sao Pedro, Ribeira Gande.
> However you also have his parents names: Francisco do Rego and Francisca
> Candida, one more generation.
> Also the ages match, with what Eric posted, so you have fairly reliable
> information.
>
> Hermano
>  
> --
>
> Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 09:50:55 -0700
> Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Looking for direction
> From: pamsanto...@gmail.com
> To: azores@googlegroups.com
>
> Thanks at least she knows a town for one of her family members.
>
> ** **
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:*
> ***
>
> I vote for Sao Pedro in Ribeira Grande, on Sao Miguel.
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada 
>
>
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>  
>
> ** **
>
>
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes

[nancy jean baptiste]

Hi Vivian,
 
I've been looking at your tree..I haven't discovered any connections  and 
yet but my intuition has hit on some of your linesfor some reason I think 
we connect on several lines in both Pico and Sao Jorge. You match both myself 
and Uncle John, my father's brother...so that's Picoalthough their 
grandfather, Antonio Teixeira Baptista was born in Topo, Sao Jorge...but 
the Sao Jorge connection to you and the Holmes brothers "feels" like it's to my 
mother's people on Sao Jorge, the Velas, Rosais area. My mom's mother's father 
is my brick wall..he used the name Enos when he came from Sao Jorge, my mom 
said his name was "messed up when he arrived in the U.S. and it was changed 
from Enos or Bettencourt? to Vetorino.his civil marriage record gives his 
parents name as Tomas Vieira and Ana Joaquina but the record from St. John's 
for the marriage lists his parents as Tomas Oliveira and Ana Joaquina...so 
I'm clueless but somehow I think this connects to the Holmes brothers and to 
you!
 
Now to figure it out!
Nice to find a new cousin,
Nancy
 
Date: Sat, 18 May 2013 09:27:34 -0700
From: vchris1...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Hi Nancy, I do have Sao Jorge ancestry which is my Mothers (Gertrude J Joseph) 
Mother (Marie G. Holmes) side of the family which is one of my brick walls.  I 
do not know the town they came from in Sao Jorge.  The other mystery is My 
Grandmothers (Marie Holmes) real Father we think was Frank Holmes (Homen) but 
he died we think before her mother married Premo Souza.  My Grandmother (Marie) 
told me we were related to the Souza's but she did not put him down as her 
father and neither did her brothers.  We know that when they came to this 
country she listed her name on her naturalization papers as Marie Holmes Souza. 
 So we think her mother and step father married in the Azores when she was 
about 2 yrs old.  My Grandmother did not tell me very much
 about her family either how Frank Holmes died or when.  I am hoping the church 
in Hanford.  St Bridgets will call me in about a week with info on if the 
church marriage records list the name of the town they came from.  Keep your 
fingers crossed.  So far all my research does not give the name of the town 
they came from.  Also all her brothers put on all their documents they were 
born in California and they never filled out any naturalization papers.  She 
was the only one who put she was born in the Azores.  Well I will send you an 
invitation to Ancestry.com for my Tree.  Let me know if you have any questions. 
Vivian (Silva) Christy
From: nancy jean baptiste 
 To: azores group  
 Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:58 AM
 Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
   



Hi Vivian,
 
Please, I'd like to see your tree. I didn't notice a gedcom on FTDNA. Do you 
have Sao Jorge ancestry as well as Pico?
 
Thanks,
Nancy Jean
 
Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 18:01:31 -0700
From: vchris1...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Hi Nancy,  I have the records for Lajes do Pico.  In the Minho records on line 
I found both my Mothers father and my Fathers mother's families lived near to 
each other and they have relatives all the way back to the 1700's I think.  I 
also found
 my fathers Mother's birth record and her fathers birth record.  So I can give 
you access to my family tree online at Ancestry.com you may find some relatives 
we have in common. Let me know if you would like me to do that.   Thanks, 
Vivian  
From: nancy jean baptiste 
 To: azores group
  
 Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:01 AM
 Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
   



Hi Vivian,
 
Glad to know you're there to explain Frank and his brother Robert's family 
history a bit.
 
I noticed the you and the Holmes brothers are both a match to me. However, you 
are a match to my Uncle John Baptiste and the Holmes are not his match. 
 
I think the Holmes are matching on my mom's Sao Jorge people who they have some 
surnames in common with and you are matching Uncle John's Pico people and I can 
be matching both your Pico and Sao Jorge lines. We share many surnames.
 
Nancy Jean
 





 Original Message 

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes

From: Vivian Christy 

Date: Wed, May 15, 2013 7:44 pm

To: "azores@googlegroups.com" 



Hello Doug and Nancy, Frank Patrick Holmes is my cousin and I do all the 
genealogy for our family.  So I will check out his matches.  The thing is I do 
not know where
 his great grandfather who is also Frank Peter Holmes (Homen) was born or died 
except that it was
 the Sao Jorge Island.  That is the brick wall in our genealogy.  When I check 
out the matches and your tree I will see if we have any that could be 
relatives.  I wish I would have been able to get the copy of the Marriage 
record from the church in Hanf

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] question

[Cheri Mello]

Geneva,

The best genealogy software program is the one that you find works best for
you.  The most popular 4 for PC, alphabetically:
1) Family Tree Maker
2) Legacy Family Tree  http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/  Standard edition
is free
3) Roots Magic  http://www.rootsmagic.com/  RootsMagic Essestials is free
4) The Master Genealogist www.whollygenes.com The trial version is free for
30 days.

I don't have anything on your family names, but you should correct the
spelling to Ponta Delgada. (no "u" in Ponta).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Looking for direction

[Vicki Rabe]

Hello, Hermano, Pam, Cheri and everyone,

I just want to say that I'm so thankful for all the help everyone has been
giving me.  To start to track back where you're family came from is well
surreal.  I'm a bit addicted and want to work on this all the time.  Not
possible but loving every minute that I do it.  It's so exciting to see what
doors open when you get a little piece of information.  My family on both
sides seemed to not want to share info so it's been exciting to see a bit
into the old world of my family.  Well anyway I just want to thank everyone
from the bottom of my heart for the help you have so kindly given me.  You
are an amazing group of people and I'm really enjoying being just a little
part of that.  Thank you,  Vic

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Hermano C. Pires
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 5:33 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Looking for direction

 

Vicky
 believe that Pam and Cheri have it righ. 
They certainly are from Sao Pedro, Ribeira Gande.
However you also have his parents names: Francisco do Rego and Francisca
Candida, one more generation.
Also the ages match, with what Eric posted, so you have fairly reliable
information.

Hermano
 

  _  

Date: Fri, 17 May 2013 09:50:55 -0700
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Looking for direction
From: pamsanto...@gmail.com
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Thanks at least she knows a town for one of her family members.

 

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

I vote for Sao Pedro in Ribeira Grande, on Sao Miguel.

 



Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada 


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes

[Vivian Christy]

Hi Nancy,
 
I do have Sao Jorge ancestry which is my Mothers (Gertrude J Joseph) Mother 
(Marie G. Holmes) side of the family which is one of my brick walls.  I do not 
know the town they came from in Sao Jorge.  The other mystery is My 
Grandmothers (Marie Holmes) real Father we think was Frank Holmes (Homen) but 
he died we think before her mother married Premo Souza.  My Grandmother (Marie) 
told me we were related to the Souza's but she did not put him down as her 
father and neither did her brothers.  We know that when they came to this 
country she listed her name on her naturalization papers as Marie Holmes Souza. 
 So we think her mother and step father married in the Azores when she was 
about 2 yrs old.  My Grandmother did not tell me very much about her family 
either how Frank Holmes died or when.  I am hoping the church in Hanford.  St 
Bridgets will call me in about a week with info on if the church marriage 
records list the name of the town they came
 from.  Keep your fingers crossed.  So far all my research does not give the 
name of the town they came from.  Also all her brothers put on all their 
documents they were born in California and they never filled out any 
naturalization papers.  She was the only one who put she was born in the 
Azores.  Well I will send you an invitation to Ancestry.com for my Tree.  Let 
me know if you have any questions.
 
Vivian (Silva) Christy
 


 From: nancy jean baptiste 
To: azores group  
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
  


 
Hi Vivian,
 
Please, I'd like to see your tree. I didn't notice a gedcom on FTDNA. Do you 
have Sao Jorge ancestry as well as Pico?
 
Thanks,
Nancy Jean
 



Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 18:01:31 -0700
From: vchris1...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
To: azores@googlegroups.com


Hi Nancy,  I have the records for Lajes do Pico.  In the Minho records on line 
I found both my Mothers father and my Fathers mother's families lived near to 
each other and they have relatives all the way back to the 1700's I think.  I 
also found my fathers Mother's birth record and her fathers birth record.  So I 
can give you access to my family tree online at Ancestry.com you may find some 
relatives we have in common.
 
Let me know if you would like me to do that.  
 
Thanks, Vivian
 
 
 


 From: nancy jean baptiste 
To: azores group  
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
  


 
Hi Vivian,
 
Glad to know you're there to explain Frank and his brother Robert's family 
history a bit.
 
I noticed the you and the Holmes brothers are both a match to me. However, you 
are a match to my Uncle John Baptiste and the Holmes are not his match. 
 
I think the Holmes are matching on my mom's Sao Jorge people who they have some 
surnames in common with and you are matching Uncle John's Pico people and I can 
be matching both your Pico and Sao Jorge lines. We share many surnames.
 
Nancy Jean
 





 
 Original Message 
>Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
>From: Vivian Christy 
>Date: Wed, May 15, 2013 7:44 pm
>To: "azores@googlegroups.com" 
>
>
>Hello Doug and Nancy,
> 
>Frank Patrick Holmes is my cousin and I do all the genealogy for our family.  
>So I will check out his matches.  The thing is I do not know where his great 
>grandfather who is also Frank Peter Holmes (Homen) was born or died except 
>that it was the Sao Jorge Island.  That is the brick wall in our genealogy.  
>When I check out the matches and your tree I will see if we have any that 
>could be relatives.  I wish I would have been able to get the copy of the 
>Marriage record from the church in Hanford where my Grandmother Marie G. 
>Holmes and grandfather Manuel Joseph were married.  But I probably will have 
>to go there my self to see if I can get the record.  So I have not found the 
>town yet.  Thank you.  Vivian (Silva) Christy
> 
>researching: Silva, Machado, Silveria, Veira, Holmes, Homen, Enos, Jose, 
>Souza, and many more.  In Lajes do Pico and Sao Jorge, Tereica, and Faial.
>
> 
>
>
> From: nancy jean baptiste 
>To: Doug da Rocha Holmes ; azores group 
> 
>Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 9:57 AM
>Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] RE: Frank Patrick Holmes
>  
>
>
> 
>A correction to my earlier post.Frank Holmeswe match many names on Sao 
>Jorge. 
> 
>Nancy Jean 
> 
>
>
>
>From: p...@dholmes.com
>To: fishsongf...@hotmail.com
>Subject: Frank Patrick Holmes
>Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 08:48:11 -0700
>
>Hi Nancy,
>
>
>I think someone once mentioned Frank Holmes to me, but I didn't realize he has 
>Pico ancestors.
>Can you identify the one who immigrated from there?
>
>
>I don't show him as a link, but if he connects to Judy's

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[Cheri Mello]

I just search my genealogy program by first names.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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[AZORES-Genealogy] question

[ggervais1717]

Hi:
 
I have two requests. 
 
#1 I bought the latest edition to Family Tree Maker and started putting my 
info together. I printed the forms and pretty much hate the format. Does 
anyone have any suggestions of a computer software that is much better then 
this software?
 
#2 Does anyone have the following family names or information to share De 
Faria/Frias/de Farias/Farias mostly natives of Sao Pedro, Punta Delgada?
 
Thanks
Geneva Cook-Gervais

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[pico]

Another factor that I just thought of is something that will happen in the future for me.I think the way I name people might help when I am ready to publish the genealogies of each village in book form.If I have to look through notes to see how a person was named, that seems like it might be too time-consuming.But when they are listed right at the start with all their names, I could easily edit them if I choose, or maybe just keep them as-is.I believe with my method I am making is easier for this future stage of my research.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com


 Original Message 
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names
From: 
Date: Sat, May 18, 2013 9:40 am
To: azores@googlegroups.com

I usually make a change in how I record once it actually becomes a problem.When I was first starting, I automatically added the father's name to all women. Now I would NEVER do that for Portuguese.But as we know, that's how a lot of countries do it.As an aside comment, we with Portuguese ancestry might not realize just how lucky we are with the church records.In Hungary's records, many times the parents are not even mentioned at marriage. One must use some guess work to figure out families.When that happens in Portuguese records, and it does happen, it is certainly uncommon and poses a big problem to extend the line further.But with a standard format for names in most other countries, we expect the children to use the surname of the father and that must be why they didn't even bother to name parents at marriage.(Not all Hungarian records are like that, but it is common)For a lady in Portugal listed as either Maria Moniz or Maria de Jesus, I would do this:Maria de Jesus ou Maria MonizBecause in your example you never said she was recorded even once as Maria de Jesus Moniz.But I see that your program will allow a search and will see both versions. Brother's Keeper will search only what is recorded exactly in the name field.There are no separate fields for recording the first, middle and surname.But as I said, if I have a problem that needs a solution, I make an appropriate change.The problem started when I did a search for people and couldn't find them, even though they were there to be found.If I was looking for Inácia Cota and had her recorded as Inácia de Jesus ou Cota Velho (that's how I started to record these variations), my program, like most, would not see Inácia Cota.In Brother's Keeper I do have the choice to do separate name searches, but it's complicated to explain without you being familiar with it.This search is far slower. So I usually try to do the faster search where I must have the exact name to find it.That's when and why I modified to have the complete name separated by "ou."For variations in men's names, and it happens all the time, I might have this:Pedro Machado ou Pedro António MachadoorAntónio Teodoro ou António Machado LuísBut maybe that should be another subject for men's names.It's when my database got too big that I didn't want to wait for a long search as I added new people that I came up with my current method.For a search for two separate fields (like a search for anyone named Manuel plus anyone named Pereira) it can take maybe 7 minutes when I first open my program to search 228,000 names. Then later, once the first search is done and the names have appeared in the RAM of my computer, the second search will be maybe 30 seconds.But compare that to the 10-15 seconds for another way to search and you can see why I like to get it done faster.So like you said, the program you use can certainly affect your methods of recording names.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com    Original Message  Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names From: "Richard Francis Pimentel"  Date: Sat, May 18, 2013 3:58 am To:   Women’s names have always been a problem. I always record the way the name appears in the record with a custom fact “Recorded Name” The actual way I list in my program as the primary name is a reflection of the preponderance of those names.  For example I have a Maria at birth later I find her name recorded as Maria de Jesus five times and Maria Moniz five times and Maria da Conceicao once. I would list her primary name as Maria de Jesus Moniz and only make a note of Maria da Conceicao.  I have switched from FTM to The Master Genealogist  (TMGT) and now can have all names come up in sort lists. Her name would appear in Bold print Maria de Jesus Moniz and in lighter print Maria de Jesus and also as Maria Moniz.  How your genealogy program handles names especially woman’s names is important when selecting a genealogy program to use. One further thing I never assign a married name or tell a genealogy program to use married names. If I find a woman as Maria de Jesus that is how

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[pico]

I usually make a change in how I record once it actually becomes a problem.When I was first starting, I automatically added the father's name to all women. Now I would NEVER do that for Portuguese.But as we know, that's how a lot of countries do it.As an aside comment, we with Portuguese ancestry might not realize just how lucky we are with the church records.In Hungary's records, many times the parents are not even mentioned at marriage. One must use some guess work to figure out families.When that happens in Portuguese records, and it does happen, it is certainly uncommon and poses a big problem to extend the line further.But with a standard format for names in most other countries, we expect the children to use the surname of the father and that must be why they didn't even bother to name parents at marriage.(Not all Hungarian records are like that, but it is common)For a lady in Portugal listed as either Maria Moniz or Maria de Jesus, I would do this:Maria de Jesus ou Maria MonizBecause in your example you never said she was recorded even once as Maria de Jesus Moniz.But I see that your program will allow a search and will see both versions. Brother's Keeper will search only what is recorded exactly in the name field.There are no separate fields for recording the first, middle and surname.But as I said, if I have a problem that needs a solution, I make an appropriate change.The problem started when I did a search for people and couldn't find them, even though they were there to be found.If I was looking for Inácia Cota and had her recorded as Inácia de Jesus ou Cota Velho (that's how I started to record these variations), my program, like most, would not see Inácia Cota.In Brother's Keeper I do have the choice to do separate name searches, but it's complicated to explain without you being familiar with it.This search is far slower. So I usually try to do the faster search where I must have the exact name to find it.That's when and why I modified to have the complete name separated by "ou."For variations in men's names, and it happens all the time, I might have this:Pedro Machado ou Pedro António MachadoorAntónio Teodoro ou António Machado LuísBut maybe that should be another subject for men's names.It's when my database got too big that I didn't want to wait for a long search as I added new people that I came up with my current method.For a search for two separate fields (like a search for anyone named Manuel plus anyone named Pereira) it can take maybe 7 minutes when I first open my program to search 228,000 names. Then later, once the first search is done and the names have appeared in the RAM of my computer, the second search will be maybe 30 seconds.But compare that to the 10-15 seconds for another way to search and you can see why I like to get it done faster.So like you said, the program you use can certainly affect your methods of recording names.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com


 Original Message 
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names
From: "Richard  Francis Pimentel" 
Date: Sat, May 18, 2013 3:58 am
To: 

Women’s names have always been a problem. I always record the way the name appears in the record with a custom fact “Recorded Name” The actual way I list in my program as the primary name is a reflection of the preponderance of those names.  For example I have a Maria at birth later I find her name recorded as Maria de Jesus five times and Maria Moniz five times and Maria da Conceicao once. I would list her primary name as Maria de Jesus Moniz and only make a note of Maria da Conceicao.  I have switched from FTM to The Master Genealogist  (TMGT) and now can have all names come up in sort lists. Her name would appear in Bold print Maria de Jesus Moniz and in lighter print Maria de Jesus and also as Maria Moniz.  How your genealogy program handles names especially woman’s names is important when selecting a genealogy program to use. One further thing I never assign a married name or tell a genealogy program to use married names. If I find a woman as Maria de Jesus that is how her name appears I do not tack on her husband’s family name. Once again TMG handles the listing of names quite well. Rick Richard Francis PimentelSpring, TXFormerly of Epping, New Hampshire  Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of p...@dholmes.comSent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:30 PMTo: azores@googlegroups.comSubject: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names I would like to know the opinions of others about how to enter surnames for women. I always enter the maiden names, but often or usually (in the late 1800s to present time) women have adopted their new husband's name and are listed as such in the records.For example, Maria José is married in 1888 (I am

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[pico]

If I find variations in how a lady was named in the records, I write their names as this, for example:Catarina da Conceição ou Catarina de JesusIf thee was a 3rd variation:Catarina da Conceição ou Catarina de Jesus ou Catarina PimentelThe field length for names in Brother's Keeper is large and I have never exhausted it. I think it might be something like 125 characters.It could probably tackle the name of a king, whose names can go on and on.If this person emigrated to the USA, I modify it a little and it might be:Maria do Amparo or Maria SilveiraThe "or" reflects she moved to the USA. If she had those variations and remained in Portugal, it would be:Maria do Amparo ou Maria SilveiraI am not sure if I have any of my own ancestors who were recorded at marriage with their husband's names.I notice it became a more common practice in the latter 1800s, so for many that would be great-great-grandparents or maybe gr-grandparents.But I have half of them from other countries, being only half Portuguese. Maybe only a low percentage will be affected.100% of people will be affected if they have all Portuguese ancestors and they all lived and died in Portugal, since it also happened at death.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names
From: Cheri Mello 
Date: Sat, May 18, 2013 6:36 am
To: Azores Genealogy 

Doug,I don't have any of my Portuguese women ancestors using their husband's name.  Not until they came to America (1900s).At any rate, just like Rick, I use The Master Genealogist (TMG) and I can have "Name Variations" as well as assign a married name for a woman (I don't assign a married name for any of the women in my genealogy program - even my American branches).  I don't know if Brother's Keeper allows you to have multiple names.  If not, I guess your note field is the best solution. Cheri MelloListowner, Azores-GenResearching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada   --  For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." ---  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores?hl=en.     





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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: 30 years

[pico]

Yea, that's why it was so strange - Bizarre!Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: 30 years
From: mances 
Date: Sat, May 18, 2013 7:50 am
To: azores@googlegroups.com

Hi Doug, As you know, Bezerra, feminine gender for Bezerro, means calf, and Bizarra, feminine gender for Bizarro, means weird. It is a curious example, because usually the variations of a surname tend to keep its etymological root, but that is not the case with Bezerra and Bizarra.  Manoel Cesar FurtadoEm sexta-feira, 17 de maio de 2013 20h58min22s UTC-3, Doug Holmes escreveu:No surprise, Manoel.I knew you would get them. :-)Yea, these are given names, like you said. Abbreviates family names can be a real problem and sometimes can only be figured out after a lot of research in the freguesia where you find it.The priest obviously felt it was a common name there.I was just looking at this name "d'Ultra" (D'ULTRA) and was beginning to believe it a valid name because it was recorded that way by the priest.But then I saw a witness (father of the groom) sign his name as Dutra which confirmed what I thought it must be.I suppose it has something to do with how it sounds in the location where it's written.I recently ran across a BEZERRA family with Pico origins but I think it was found in São Miguel or somewhere other than Pico.It had changed over to BIZARRA in this new location. And it was written this new way on many instances, not just one single priest making a mistake.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com    Original Message  Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: 30 years From: mances  Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 4:45 pm To: azo...@googlegroups.com  Hi Doug,Are you talking about given names?pº - Pedroaº - Afonsogº - Gonçalocª - CatarinaManoel Cesar Furtado   --   --   





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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: 30 years

[mances]

Hi Doug,

As you know, Bezerra, feminine gender for Bezerro, means calf, and Bizarra, 
feminine gender for Bizarro, means weird.

It is a curious example, because usually the variations of a surname tend 
to keep its etymological root, but that is not the case with Bezerra and 
Bizarra.


Manoel Cesar Furtado

Em sexta-feira, 17 de maio de 2013 20h58min22s UTC-3, Doug Holmes escreveu:
>
> No surprise, Manoel.
>
> I knew you would get them. :-)
>
> Yea, these are given names, like you said. 
>
> Abbreviates family names can be a real problem and sometimes can only be 
> figured out after a lot of research in the freguesia where you find it.
> The priest obviously felt it was a common name there.
>
> I was just looking at this name "d'Ultra" (D'ULTRA) and was beginning to 
> believe it a valid name because it was recorded that way by the priest.
> But then I saw a witness (father of the groom) sign his name as Dutra 
> which confirmed what I thought it must be.
> I suppose it has something to do with how it sounds in the location where 
> it's written.
>
> I recently ran across a BEZERRA family with Pico origins but I think it 
> was found in São Miguel or somewhere other than Pico.
> It had changed over to BIZARRA in this new location. And it was written 
> this new way on many instances, not just one single priest making a mistake.
>
> Doug da Rocha Holmes
> Sacramento, California
> Pico & Terceira Genealogist
> 916-550-1618
> www.dholmes.com
>
>
>   Original Message 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: 30 years
> From: mances >
> Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 4:45 pm
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> Are you talking about given names?
>
> pº - Pedro
> aº - Afonso
> gº - Gonçalo
> cª - Catarina
>
>
> Manoel Cesar Furtado
>
>  --  
>  
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Alien Registration Forms -- Speedy return!

[Kathy Cardoza]

If you aren't aware of the importance of Alien Registration Forms to your 
research, you should know what a wonderful resource they can be!  Briefly, ARs 
began to be required in 1940 as a way to identify all non-citizens living in 
the United States. They registered at their local Post Office. For more 
information on this great resource, go to the Azores GenWeb:  
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/alienreg.html

Recently I sent for the AR of my husband's great grandfather, Ignacio Augusto 
Reis. First, I requested an index search online (links are on the Azores 
GenWeb) on April 21. I received the results of the search on April 26, via 
snail mail. With those results, I requested the actual forms on April 26, 
online. Yesterday, May 17, I received the AR form in the mail, less than a 
month from the start of the whole process!

It cost me $20 for the index search and $20 for the form. I'm glad I requested 
it! I've searched for this man, Ignacio Augusto Reis, aka Enos Reis, for a long 
time but never found his immigration info. This form gave me the ship, port, 
and exact date. Even with that I had a hard time finding him on passenger 
lists. Finally, I located him on the EllisIsland.org site  but he was listed 
under the butchered name Jgnacia Augusto Reys Lima Lima was his 
father's surname which he never used any other time and I never would have 
thought to check that. A good lesson for all researchers.

I was amazed at how fast I got results back on this! The time frame is much 
improved over the old method used, except that now, it's no longer free. Oh, 
and the results will be sent to you from the Department of Homeland Security! 
That gave my son quite a start when he went up to get our mail, LOL.

Kathy

~~~
Visit the Azores GenWeb Project:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~azrwgw/index.html

Climb my Family Tree:
http://www.kathys-place.com/index.html
~~~



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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[Cheri Mello]

Doug,

I don't have any of my Portuguese women ancestors using their husband's
name.  Not until they came to America (1900s).

At any rate, just like Rick, I use The Master Genealogist (TMG) and I can
have "Name Variations" as well as assign a married name for a woman (I
don't assign a married name for any of the women in my genealogy program -
even my American branches).  I don't know if Brother's Keeper allows you to
have multiple names.  If not, I guess your note field is the best solution.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[Pam Santos]

Same I never use the husband's surname for the wife, I only use the name as
it appears in records.


On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 3:58 AM, Richard Francis Pimentel <
rfrancispimen...@comcast.net> wrote:

> *Women’s names have always been a problem. I always record the way the
> name appears in the record with a custom fact “Recorded Name” The actual
> way I list in my program as the primary name is a reflection of the
> preponderance of those names. *
>
> * *
>
> *For example I have a Maria at birth later I find her name recorded as
> Maria de Jesus five times and Maria Moniz five times and Maria da Conceicao
> once. I would list her primary name as Maria de Jesus Moniz and only make a
> note of Maria da Conceicao. *
>
> * *
>
> *I have switched from FTM to The Master Genealogist  (TMGT) and now can
> have all names come up in sort lists. Her name would appear in Bold print
> Maria de Jesus Moniz and in lighter print Maria de Jesus and also as Maria
> Moniz. *
>
> * *
>
> *How your genealogy program handles names especially woman’s names is
> important when selecting a genealogy program to use.*
>
> * *
>
> *One further thing I never assign a married name or tell a genealogy
> program to use married names. If I find a woman as Maria de Jesus that is
> how her name appears I do not tack on her husband’s family name.*
>
> * *
>
> *Once again TMG handles the listing of names quite well.*
>
> * *
>
> *Rick*
>
> * *
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Spring, TX*
>
> *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire *
>
> * *
>
> *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and
> Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores*
>
> * *
>
> *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *p...@dholmes.com
> *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2013 9:30 PM
> *To:* azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names
>
> ** **
>
> I would like to know the opinions of others about how to enter surnames
> for women.
>
> ** **
>
> I always enter the maiden names, but often or usually (in the late 1800s
> to present time) women have adopted their new husband's name and are listed
> as such in the records.
>
> For example, Maria José is married in 1888 (I am just making all this up)
> and married António Vieira Borba, so is listed as Maria José Borba.
>
> Her parents are listed as José Inácio Parreira and Faustina Cândida. 
>
> ** **
>
> So what do you do? Are you going to call her Maria José Borba in your
> genealogy program? It would certainly be valid since that is what the
> priest recorded.
>
> But I don't do it if I already know her ancestry and it doesn't include
> Borba. I call her just Maria José. And if in the future I ever see her
> listed as Maria José Parreira, I will add in Parreira to her name.
>
> If I don't yet know her ancestry, I enter her with Borba, pending further
> research that reveals her ancestry. If not found in her ancestry, then I
> remove Borba.
>
> ** **
>
> Another example, in case I am not clear with the above:
>
> ** **
>
> Amélia de Jesus married in 1897 (another I am just creating now). Her
> husband is Amaro José da Silveira. So she is listed as Amélia de Jesus
> Silveira.
>
> Her parents are Inácio Vitorino de Sousa and Paula Josefa.
>
> ** **
>
> I would list her as Amélia de Jesus Silveira, but pending further
> research, since her parents don't use it. 
>
> If I found that her maternal ancestry includes Silveira, I would keep
> Silveira as listed. But if she had no Silveira, I would then remove it once
> I made that discovery.
>
> ** **
>
> What would you do?
>
> ** **
>
> One often finds, but certainly not always, that this lady has children and
> is not listed with her husband's family name. That might also be where her
> own ancestral name is found once or twice.
>
> ** **
>
> One final thing. At death, if the woman has adopted the surname of the
> husband when married, she is usually listed with her married name in the
> death record.
>
> ** **
>
> In my opinion, one must always note exactly how each person is listed, but
> when you want to know her maiden name, you can't include the one used after
> she married.
>
> And I always put just her maiden name in the genealogy program, along with
> all the notes about how she is listed throughout her life.
>
> It starts with her at birth, continues with her name as godmother before
> she married, name at marriage, name used for any children at their
> baptisms, name used as godmother already married, and finally at her death.
> It can also continue after her death when she could be listed as
> grandmother or mother of a child who married after her death. There might
> be 10 or more variations on her name over the years.
>
> ** **
>
> Doug da Rocha Holmes
> Sacramento, California
> Pico & Terceira Genealogist
> 916-550-1618
>
> www.dholmes.com
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (v

RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Women’s names have always been a problem. I always record the way the name
appears in the record with a custom fact “Recorded Name” The actual way I
list in my program as the primary name is a reflection of the preponderance
of those names. 

 

For example I have a Maria at birth later I find her name recorded as Maria
de Jesus five times and Maria Moniz five times and Maria da Conceicao once.
I would list her primary name as Maria de Jesus Moniz and only make a note
of Maria da Conceicao. 

 

I have switched from FTM to The Master Genealogist  (TMGT) and now can have
all names come up in sort lists. Her name would appear in Bold print Maria
de Jesus Moniz and in lighter print Maria de Jesus and also as Maria Moniz. 

 

How your genealogy program handles names especially woman’s names is
important when selecting a genealogy program to use.

 

One further thing I never assign a married name or tell a genealogy program
to use married names. If I find a woman as Maria de Jesus that is how her
name appears I do not tack on her husband’s family name.

 

Once again TMG handles the listing of names quite well.

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire 

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta
Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
p...@dholmes.com
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:30 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

 

I would like to know the opinions of others about how to enter surnames for
women.

 

I always enter the maiden names, but often or usually (in the late 1800s to
present time) women have adopted their new husband's name and are listed as
such in the records.

For example, Maria José is married in 1888 (I am just making all this up)
and married António Vieira Borba, so is listed as Maria José Borba.

Her parents are listed as José Inácio Parreira and Faustina Cândida. 

 

So what do you do? Are you going to call her Maria José Borba in your
genealogy program? It would certainly be valid since that is what the priest
recorded.

But I don't do it if I already know her ancestry and it doesn't include
Borba. I call her just Maria José. And if in the future I ever see her
listed as Maria José Parreira, I will add in Parreira to her name.

If I don't yet know her ancestry, I enter her with Borba, pending further
research that reveals her ancestry. If not found in her ancestry, then I
remove Borba.

 

Another example, in case I am not clear with the above:

 

Amélia de Jesus married in 1897 (another I am just creating now). Her
husband is Amaro José da Silveira. So she is listed as Amélia de Jesus
Silveira.

Her parents are Inácio Vitorino de Sousa and Paula Josefa.

 

I would list her as Amélia de Jesus Silveira, but pending further research,
since her parents don't use it. 

If I found that her maternal ancestry includes Silveira, I would keep
Silveira as listed. But if she had no Silveira, I would then remove it once
I made that discovery.

 

What would you do?

 

One often finds, but certainly not always, that this lady has children and
is not listed with her husband's family name. That might also be where her
own ancestral name is found once or twice.

 

One final thing. At death, if the woman has adopted the surname of the
husband when married, she is usually listed with her married name in the
death record.

 

In my opinion, one must always note exactly how each person is listed, but
when you want to know her maiden name, you can't include the one used after
she married.

And I always put just her maiden name in the genealogy program, along with
all the notes about how she is listed throughout her life.

It starts with her at birth, continues with her name as godmother before she
married, name at marriage, name used for any children at their baptisms,
name used as godmother already married, and finally at her death. It can
also continue after her death when she could be listed as grandmother or
mother of a child who married after her death. There might be 10 or more
variations on her name over the years.

 

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

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