[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record
Hello, I wonder what Vesgado or Resgado means? This is very interesting because the child was baptized and I see no mention of anything peculiar related to the child. Now I'm curious and can't wait for a native speaker to translate. I did take a look at the death records for this time period but they're in really bad shape. it leaps from 1710 to 1712, If there are a few 1711's, you can't see them because the pages are very worn. I hope you get this resolved Erica. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 9:52:04 PM UTC-7, audiosourceinc wrote: The record I am looking at is the top entry on the right side. I have never seen one like this before. It appears that the child was unnamed. Did he die before they named him? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOPEDRO-B-1700-1729/SMG-VF-SAOPEDRO-B-1700-1729_item1/P58.html Thanks for any help you can give. Erica Botelho -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
Thanks Margaret! This is the best explanation I ever read of! Eliseu Pacheco da Silva Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Ferro
Just to help to clarify a bit... FERREIRA as a surname is a very old one coming from old Spain. It doesn't mean blacksmith. It is what is called a patronymic. The word FERREIRO is the one referring to a Blacksmith. It is in the masculine gender because, at those times, there were no woman blacksmiths. It was a men profession.´ As an example you will have always men and women named: FERREIRA. If you see a men named FERREIRO it is for sure that it is a nickname and that he does not belong to any FERREIRA Family. Hope it helps to clarify! Eliseu Pacheco da Silva Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de luiznoia . Enviada: sábado, 5 de Abril de 2014 16:28 Para: Azores Genealogy Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Ferro This is related in origin to Ferreira, meaning an ironworker or blacksmith. Eric On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 6:54 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net mailto:rfrancispimen...@comcast.net wrote: According to Guill, Ferro is a surname. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX From: azores@googlegroups.com mailto:azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com mailto:azores@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of climbatr...@gmail.com mailto:climbatr...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2014 12:56 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com mailto:azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Surname Ferro Hello everyone. Is Ferro a surname?An abbreviated version of another name? Thank you. Suzanne -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record
Actually, this book is a copy made at a later date of the original book of baptisms for this time period. So the priest who made the copy could not read the original and therefore not write the name because it was ' resgado' meaning torn. I believe that CCA also has the original on line so see if you can locate it. Maria Natalia -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record
Hi! What you are reading is not the original book. The RASGADO word means that the copier could not write the name because when he copied it the page was thorned in that place. Eliseu Pacheco da Silva Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Aaron Pereira Enviada: domingo, 6 de Abril de 2014 06:57 Para: azores@googlegroups.com Assunto: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record Hello, I wonder what Vesgado or Resgado means? This is very interesting because the child was baptized and I see no mention of anything peculiar related to the child. Now I'm curious and can't wait for a native speaker to translate. I did take a look at the death records for this time period but they're in really bad shape. it leaps from 1710 to 1712, If there are a few 1711's, you can't see them because the pages are very worn. I hope you get this resolved Erica. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 9:52:04 PM UTC-7, audiosourceinc wrote: The record I am looking at is the top entry on the right side. I have never seen one like this before. It appears that the child was unnamed. Did he die before they named him? http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOPEDRO-B-1700-1729/SMG-VF-SAOPEDRO-B-1700-1729_item1/P58.html Thanks for any help you can give. Erica Botelho -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record
Oh, thank you for this information. I will take a look at the original and see if I can make out any of the letters in the name. -Original Message- From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mnk Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 7:43 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record Actually, this book is a copy made at a later date of the original book of baptisms for this time period. So the priest who made the copy could not read the original and therefore not write the name because it was ' resgado' meaning torn. I believe that CCA also has the original on line so see if you can locate it. Maria Natalia -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca
You're welcome, Eliseu. Margaret On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Eliseu Pacheco da Silva eliseuman...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Margaret! This is the best explanation I ever read of! *Eliseu Pacheco da Silva* Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
Hawaiian marriages among siblings had to do with the rank. And like any culture or any HUMAN BEING, Egos run amock. The half-sibling marriage seemed to have been more common, and that was because the females were the ones who were able to pass on their high rank and it took precedence over the husband's rank EVEN IF the husband was a higher ranking chief. I'm sure a lot had to do with the fact that paternity could be questionable. I knew of a couple of ancient full sibling marriages but the most famous half-sibling was of Kiwalao and his maternal half-sister Kekuiapoiwaliliha, who was also the paternal half-sister of Kamehameha I. Although Kamehameha I also took that half-sister as a wife, they never produced any offspring, but Kekuiapoiwaliliha did have a daughter with her maternal half-brother Kiwalao, her name was Keoupuolani, and she married Kamehameha I, and they were the parents of Kamehameha II and Kamehameha III. Keopuolani, like her parents and aunt Kalaniakua were viewed as gods. Which reminds me, Kalaniakua was a daughter of full sibling parents, but whether she was seen as higher ranking than her half-siblings Kekuiapoiwaliliha and Kiwalao, I don't know. I only know that those two daughters of Kalola (from whom this high rank comes from) and Kalola's granddaughter - Keopuolani were highly prized, and respected because of their rank. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 3:08:01 PM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: I suppose the logic in Hawaiian royalty was that they were superior to begin with, so marriage to another such superior person couldn't help but produce more superior offspring. But I have never once seen any example of royal marriages to siblings. I think in Catholic countries, they would never get approval from the Pope. Thank goodness for that, at least. It reminds me of the book I read last year about early Irish society where they permitted first and second cousins to marry, but caught a lot of flak from Rome because of it and it forced many changes about 1000 years ago in the Catholic church in Ireland. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity From: Antonio Faria antoni...@gmail.com javascript: Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 10:40 am To: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Correct Pronunciation of Azores, islands and villages
Thanks for the tips On Friday, April 4, 2014, Marilyn Mele Jose waterfall...@gmail.com wrote: Aloha Tanya, I do genealogy for Hawaii but this is just a suggestion. The library has many resources. I do recommend them. Let me know if you do get help!!! You tube also has resources! My Name is Marilyn or direct it to Melewaipunalei for emails. Aloha! On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 1:23 PM, tanya808smith tanya808sm...@gmail.comjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tanya808sm...@gmail.com'); wrote: Aloha, I am hoping that someone can steer me to a site that contains audio pronunciation for Portuguese words. Example: - Azores? My colleagues and I have 3 different pronunciations. Non of us speak Portuguese. Thanks, Tanya -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comjavascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Tanya K. Smith tanya808sm...@gmail.com 808.232.1366 P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Question on godmother's name and titles of witnesses
Page on the right- Vitorino (looks like Vitorino with no c ) Was the godmother Doña Anna Lux (?) of this church of this parish (?) is that correct? The 2 witnesses seem to be priests (if I translated correctly) and one of them is a Jacomo and I suspect he might be related to the family. Was it unusual to have 2 priests come to a baptism? And be witnesses? I think it says witnesses were: o padre cura desta parochial, Francisco Jose Pereira, o padre Th...veiro. (?) Joaquim Antonio Jacomo? There is a strange word before his name- and I don't know if it's part of his name or a title. It doesn't say which parish the Jacomo person is from (if he IS a priest) but maybe it doesn't say what I thought it said. Can someone please help me with this? Thank you! http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792/SMA-VP-SANTOESPIRITO-B-1779-1792_item1/P68.html Maria Elena -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Legitimações
I read a posting from several years ago that indicated that the Legitimações records were often used to confirm the true parents when the baptism listed one or both as a pai incognito. Were there any other instances where the birth would be listed in the Legitimações and not the baptisms? I have been through the CCA website looking for an 1835 baptism. It is simply not there. A friend found it from the LDS records under Legitimações. The parents had been married for 10 years already and had at least 2 other children. I'm just wondering why the birth record wouldn't be where I expected it. Thanks, Leigh Ann -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help
Luci: See below in red. Hope this helps. Shirley in CA - Original Message - From: Luci To: azores@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 7:11 PM Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help Thanks to Doug for pointing me in the right direction in the search for my grandmother's birth record, I found the right one. I could use some help with the translation, especially the section following the name of her mother. This is what I have translated so far: On the 12th day of the month of July in the year 1874 in this parish church of Santissimo Trindade in the district of Lajes do Pico, diocese of Angra, I solemnly baptized an individual of the female sex to whom I gave the name Maria who was born in this parish at one o'clock at night, on the first day of the month of July 1874, legitimate daughter 2nd named Maria of Jacinto Machado agriculture native of this parish, and Isabel de Conceiçao of domestic occupation native of Sao Mateus of Magdelena this island residents Ribeira do Cabo PATERNAL Jose Machado X Catharina da Conceicao MATERNAL Antonio Jose X Rosa Marianna GODFATHER Antonio Vieira Cardozo, single Here's the link itself: http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875_item1/P203.html She is record # 56. She is record # 55. #56 is for a child named Jose. Luci -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Last name of the father of the groom (Jacome?)
Don't forget that Constancia de Jesus had a brother named Balthezar do Pimentel. Shirley in CA - Original Message - From: Cheri Mello To: Azores Genealogy Sent: Friday, April 04, 2014 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Last name of the father of the groom (Jacome?) Dano, Must be a different. My Vitorino, married to Maria Joaquina (I think) was the son of Antonio de Mello Constancia de Jesus. You must have different Victorino son of Antonio. On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Dano dpai...@gmail.com wrote: Cheri, I think our common Mello link is Victorino (1796/RQ) de Mello, but only because his father, Antonio, married Antonia Pimentel. Actually, as a result of that marriage all of Victorino's siblings are also common links. As for the earlier Mellos from Santa Maria probably the closest one to a link is Joao Mello da Moura, the first of the Santa Maria Moura de Mello siblings to be born in Sao Miguel. On Thursday, April 3, 2014 10:15:07 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Mine are Manuel Jacome married to Maria de Mello from Santa Maria, somewhere in the late 1600s. Don't remember if that's our common line or not, Dano. Cheri On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Dano dpa...@gmail.com wrote: I think both Jacome and Mello families were originally in Santa Maria, but, there are many more Mellos than Jacomes. On Thursday, April 3, 2014 5:55:58 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: Technically, if I follow the top of my pedigree, I'm a Jacome, not a Mello. They came from Santa Maria island to Sao Miguel and settled around the Vila Franca area. On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 1:05 PM, pi...@dholmes.com wrote: In case anyone doesn't already know, this name is also a given name. My second cousin has the name Jácome. As a surname, it is also found on Terceira as far back as the early 1500s. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Last name of the father of the groom (Jacome?) From: Aaron Pereira perei...@gmail.com Date: Thu, April 03, 2014 12:48 pm To: azo...@googlegroups.com Maria, I've also wondered about the surname Jacome. There are a few places that I've seen it quite a bit: Nordeste, Sao Jorge, and Nordestinho. An ancestor of mine is a Manuel Jacome Rapozo, Sao Jorge, Nordeste I'm going to do some research of the surname Jacome and will post back here in the late hours of the night. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
Hi Dano, I wasn't referring to church law just providing an example where the incest taboo was exempt, the Hawaiian example came to mind. I am fascinated by their culture but incest among the elite did exist. I haven't read the book by James Michener or seen the movie but I suspect that it is slanted in favor of the missionaries. The native Hawaiians have a saying that goes something like this before the missionaries we had land and they had God now we have God and they have our land. Regarding the inquisition particularly in the Iberian peninsula I would consider that the darkest chapter in the Catholic churches history. More than 90% of those persecuted in the Iberian peninsula were of Jewish heritage it was a way to steal the wealth of the Jews(new Christians) and transfer it to the Crown and the Church thus concentrating power and wealth into two institutions. There was nothing holy about the Holy office of the Inquisition. The word Holey would more properly describe it. The interesting thing is now that Dna is bringing to light a heritage that was stolen from us. An observation that I would like to make as an American of Azorean ancestry I have been puzzled by the fact that I have noticed that many people of Azorean ancestry particularly of the older generation work so hard to establish a connection to our Flemish heritage and find a way to disregard our Jewish heritage. I suspect it has to do with our whiteness being in dispute at the turn of the century when many Azoreans were arriving in America. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 2:48:24 PM UTC-7, Dano wrote: Anthony, I admit that Church Law was flouted on a few occasions, mostly in England, but the Church dealt with that harshly, as evidenced by the establishment of the Inquisition. Europe was the Church's domain for the better part of the last millennium.The Church takes its laws very seriously. What happened in Hawaii was beyond Church law, and not within the Church's domain, but, all the same, Christian missionaries preached against those same native customs to which you refer. Have you not seen the film Hawaii, nor read the book, by the same name, written by James Michener - upon which the film was based? Perhaps you should. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:40:45 PM UTC-4, Antonio Faria wrote: The incest taboo among siblings has been exempt among royalty of various cultures throughout history, one example being the royal Hawaiian families in fact it was encouraged they believe such unions produces superiors specimens. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:57:25 AM UTC-7, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: Of course. And that's why you don't ever see a 1st degree connection getting married. Frankly, it's surprising to me 1st and 2nd degree was ever allowed. Maybe it was a way to generate more money by the church, so they allowed it? I'm assuming they had to pay a bigger fee for dispensation, but it's possible even poor people could get it free. I'm changing the subject to reflect this discussion. Look for the previous comments under the subject Help with baptism from Ponta Garca. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism from Ponta Garca From: Cheri Mello gfsc...@gmail.com Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 8:49 am To: Azores Genealogy azo...@googlegroups.com I thought a brother marrying a sister was forbidden by law in most countries and considered incest? So what is incest in the Azores and Portugal? Cheri Mello -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Translation Help
Luci, Maria was born at 1 am, on the 1st of July 1874. She is the daughter of Jacintho Machado, segunda do nome, literally is the second with that name, which means the couple had another daughter caller Maria, who probably died before. Agricultor is his trade, like a farmer. Izabel da Conceição was from Sao Mateus Parish, Vila da Madalena, Pico Island. Isabella Baltar myportuguesegen.blogspot.com On Saturday, April 5, 2014 10:11:45 PM UTC-4, Luci wrote: Thanks to Doug for pointing me in the right direction in the search for my grandmother's birth record, I found the right one. I could use some help with the translation, especially the section following the name of her mother. This is what I have translated so far: On the 12th day of the month of July in the year 1874 in this parish church of Santissimo Trindade in the district of Lajes do Pico, diocese of Angra, I solemnly baptized an individual of the female sex to whom I gave the name Maria who was born in this parish at o'clock at night __, legitimate daughter of Jacinto Machado native of this parish and Isabel de Conceiçao of domestic occupation native of Sao Mateus of Magdelena island ?. Here's the link itself: http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875/PIC-LJ-LAJES-B-1868-1875_item1/P203.html She is record # 56. Luci -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Rita Reis and Pedro Dionisio
Right now, I have only a death record (from Rhode Island) on which the deceased's (Felipe's) daughter stated her father's mother's name was Rita Reis and her father's father's name was Pedro Dionisio. The father, Felipe Dionisio, has no birth certificate that I have been able to find on any island, and the dates he gave for his birth range from 1860 to 1865; hence, the estimate of 1835 for his parents' birth. The names of his parents appear in modified form one other time, on his marriage certificate: Rita Joana and Peter. On Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:44:35 PM UTC-7, Dano wrote: I apologize for my previous sanctimonious reply. I neglected to see the caption above your message. However, those details that I mentioned are still pertinent to your success or failure. As for the names, they do look somewhat familiar, but, where, when - I couldn't say w/o more info. When decide to research your ancestors, you need as much info as you can get from family records, papers and correspondence, so as to steer you to the correct resources for your research. On Friday, April 4, 2014 8:39:30 PM UTC-4, Liliana Harris wrote: I'm looking for this couple, almost certainly born on S Maria about 1835. The names aren't common but I've found no records there at all and nothing that matches those names closely enough on the other islands. Any help would be appreciated. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Translation help
I have a marriage of Francisco Moniz to Florencia de Resendes. It looks like his parents are Antonio Moniz and Maria Pacheco. I am trying to find his birth record and am not sure if the second item below is the correct one. Can someone please help. Thank you. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-C-1800-1833/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-C-1800-1833_item1/P20.html http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1764-1787/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1764-1787_item1/P169.html Sheri -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity
Doug, the problem with your observation is that one must bear in mind that living on an island, especially a small island, is much different than being able to traverse the countryside of a landlocked country for days, weeks, months, or years in search of the perfect spouse, who's unrelated, unattached, and unknown by the rest of the community... As for property, title, or wealth being the incentive, we're talking about peasant farmers, for the most part who didn't even have the option of living on the land that they worked - their plight was more akin to the sharecroppers of the southern US than even most of Europe... The only society that existed was among the nobility, not farmers... On Saturday, April 5, 2014 11:51:13 PM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote: For what it's worth, as a comparison to what we see in the Azores, and especially in the smaller villages, I don't have any instances I've ever seen on my mother's Hungarian/Slovak side of cousins getting married. The villages were not huge, but still bigger than most Azorean villages. And so I guess they had a much easier time to find spouses who were unrelated. These were not big landowners, so property didn't seem to be much of a factor. On the other hand, another in-law from Hungary has noble lineage and her tree has many examples of cousins being married. It was clearly a huge factor of property. So it's something related to the social class and family wealth. Some of the more successful of my Pico ancestors have some descendants who married cousins related in up to three different ways. I'm sure most researchers have run across a couple related in something like the 2nd degree, and in the 3rd and 4th degree, but the one I have in mind was also related in another degree like maybe 3rd degree. And I have seen many examples of wealthy families on Terceira like this, as well. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Terceira Genealogist 916-550-1618 www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity From: Herb herba...@verizon.net javascript: Date: Sat, April 05, 2014 7:40 pm To: azo...@googlegroups.com javascript: I have never seen a first degree but I have seen lots of 4th, 3rd and second. Need to keep a few things in mind though. During the 18th and 19th centuries in Europe about 40% of marriages were among cousins. During someone's lifetime they might have travelled 20-30 miles from their home so they didn't know a lot of people to marry. Marrying cousins was a way to keep lands and other property in the family name and also seen as a way to keep blood lines pure. There is even an old Portuguese folk song about marrying cousins. I will ask my 85 year old mother and post it here. Herb -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Need help translating the beginning of this baptismal record
I don't believe that original book exists anymore. It's been a long time, but I think if you go to the front of the book the priest said he copied it over. So everyone now has access only to this copy. On the plus side, his writing is pretty legible. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Legitimações
Leigh Ann, Not exactly. If the parents came forward and claimed to be the parents, then that fact *could* be recorded in the legitimaçoes book. Sometimes it was recorded in the margin of the baptism. Either way, the baby was baptized and should appear in the baptism book. Maybe you should post the record link from the CCA if you want a definitive answer. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation help
Nope. On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 3:22 PM, smartell...@gmail.com wrote: I have a marriage of Francisco Moniz to Florencia de Resendes. It looks like his parents are Antonio Moniz and Maria Pacheco. I am trying to find his birth record and am not sure if the second item below is the correct one. Can someone please help. Thank you. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-C-1800-1833/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-C-1800-1833_item1/P20.html http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1764-1787/SMG-PV-FAIALDATERRA-B-1764-1787_item1/P169.html Sheri -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
