Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Re "He was a native of Sao Jorge but sailed from Flores and Faial most often": Aha! This may be lead to the missing link of how my great-grandfather, a native of Topo, São Jorge, who allegedly went to sea in 1864 at age 20, wound up with a young woman from Ponta da Fajã Grande, on the west coast of Flores. Thanks, Katharine. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
In helping others research, I found one who came to the US in the late 1860's and it gave the reason they were coming here. Also, I have court documents of another case where they left Faial illegally (a ship from Faial chased their ship and didn't catch them - probably paid off) and entered the US illegally (under dark of night) with 41 passengers who were sent ashore on smaller vessels and took carts, trains, etc. to their destinations. There is no manifest of the passengers. So if your ancestor was on this ship, there is no way you would ever find him/her listed on a manifest. The only way they got caught in the US is one of the male passengers went into a bar shortly after landing and bragged about it and they charged the captain who ended up paying a $2000 fine. "E" -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Cheri, I believe I got the date from the NARA site when I applied for the records. The only record I can find of my grandfather on the Azores passports is going to Brazil with an "uncle" in 1895. He was 13 at the time. His older brother was already there. This was a wealthy family with relatives in Brazil who they could send their sons to, to avoid the draft. His two older cousins arrived in Liverpool as members of the Brazil Navy at the age of 20. Possibly he returned that way too. My grandfather said he arrived on the Dona Maria 12 Apr 1901 with his family. His parents and 6 brothers and sisters were on the manifest, he was not. All 8 family members were detained for 4 days. There is a record of them having 32 meals. If he was on the ship, he would have been detained with them. I see no other possibility. I am continuing to search, until I find him. Judi From: gfsche...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:15:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships To: azores@googlegroups.com Judi, I don't remember that proof arrival is for after a certain date. I do remember the 1906 date is to look on film before that or write to the USCIS (old INS) after that. I have a small naturalization summary on the Azores GenWeb. I recommend the two book at the end: http://goo.gl/RCgdJ Hopefully that could shed more light on the date that you remember. My ancestor stated she came on the "Pensailor" or some spelling like that. It was the Peninsular. Close enough. I have her naturalizaiton paperwork, including the papers she had to fill out (have one of her sons fill out because she was illiterate). What's weird is the INS has stamped on the last page "UNABLE TO VERIFY" her coming into the country. And I have the American ship's manifest, and sure enough, no Gloria Correia is listed. But she IS on it. In 1956, Gloria didn't remember what was said in 1901, nor did she say it. Her older sister said it. And she stated that Gloria's name was Maria da Gloria Viola, which was the family alcunha. Judi, I'd get the Azorean Passaportes and find your ancestor sailing from that end and then look for the American end. Work them both together and maybe you can find your ancestor. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Steve, My male ancestor was the oldest boy and came at 16. So it wasn't the land thing, I don't think. I was told it was for a better life and to make more money in America than they could in the Azores. I suspect because mine were involved in fruit and because I read about various fruit harvests being damaged by Mother Nature, that perhaps that was a deciding factor. I think around the 1920s, the Passaports out of the Azores asks for a reason. One great uncle said he was going to America to make a fortune. So there's another a reason! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Pat, Michael Tepper's "American Passenger Arrival Records" lists what exists for the various ports (Boston, Providence, NY, New Bedford, etc). There are gaps in some of the records, but Tepper lists these gaps. Most are filmed; not all are on Ancestry or the Internet. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
It was adventure in my gg grandfathers case, but after 10 months at sea cleaning up whale slop from harvesting whales he decided farming want such a bad gig and went home when the ship returned to Horta. But he did find his way to the US for good at the age of 20. On Jun 13, 2012 1:02 PM, "Steve Peters" wrote: > On Jun 12, 10:04 am, Cheri Mello wrote: > > StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! > > Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to > avoid > > the military. > > Well, I agree that the "stowaway" story occurs far too frequently to > be credible. I was throwing the "draft dodger" thing out there as an > alternative, based on stuff I've read, not on family stories. So do > you believe that avoiding conscription was not a likely reason for > boys to leave? Were they just escaping poverty and joblessness? Were > their families to poor to feed them? Or did they just want adventure? > > Steve > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Judi, I don't remember that proof arrival is for after a certain date. I do remember the 1906 date is to look on film before that or write to the USCIS (old INS) after that. I have a small naturalization summary on the Azores GenWeb. I recommend the two book at the end: http://goo.gl/RCgdJ Hopefully that could shed more light on the date that you remember. My ancestor stated she came on the "Pensailor" or some spelling like that. It was the Peninsular. Close enough. I have her naturalizaiton paperwork, including the papers she had to fill out (have one of her sons fill out because she was illiterate). What's weird is the INS has stamped on the last page "UNABLE TO VERIFY" her coming into the country. And I have the American ship's manifest, and sure enough, no Gloria Correia is listed. But she IS on it. In 1956, Gloria didn't remember what was said in 1901, nor did she say it. Her older sister said it. And she stated that Gloria's name was Maria da Gloria Viola, which was the family alcunha. Judi, I'd get the Azorean Passaportes and find your ancestor sailing from that end and then look for the American end. Work them both together and maybe you can find your ancestor. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
On Jun 12, 10:04 am, Cheri Mello wrote: > StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! > Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid > the military. Well, I agree that the "stowaway" story occurs far too frequently to be credible. I was throwing the "draft dodger" thing out there as an alternative, based on stuff I've read, not on family stories. So do you believe that avoiding conscription was not a likely reason for boys to leave? Were they just escaping poverty and joblessness? Were their families to poor to feed them? Or did they just want adventure? Steve -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
When I was researching the arrival of someone's grandfather, who stated he arrived in Fall River in 1880, I have been unable to find a ship's manifest anywhere that has him listed. Pat McCoy = On 6/13/12, Judi Phillips wrote: > > My grandfather said he came in 1901. I have the entire ship's manifest and > he is not on it. He became a naturalized citizen in 1934 stating he was on > the ship. There is no proof of arrival in his paperwork. Naturalization > only requires proof of arrival after a certain date, I think 1906, so if he > came before 1906, he did not have to provide proof. My other grandfather > who came in 1915 has a certificate of arrival signed by the officer of the > ship he arrived on. > Judi > > > > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:40:33 -0700 > From: lensi...@lenstudio.com > To: azores@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships > > I have always been suspicious of the "stowaway story" because my grandfather > was naturalized 12 years after his arrival. It seems that naturalization > might require proof that one came legitimately. > > On the other hand, I have enjoyed telling people that I am the grandson of > an illegal immigrant. > > I am running into a problem because it appears that 1882 Boston records were > lost. > > Len > > On Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:03:37 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: > However, what I am saying is that it seems like an extremely high number of > researchers with the stowaway story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm > saying it's not a crazy number like 50%. > > If anyone has the books I mentioned before, it will shed light on the > statistics. > > Kind of like American researchers who all have the "3 brothers came to > America" story. Doesn't matter where (Germany, England, Ireland), it was 3 > brothers. And a lot of them don't pan out to be 3 brothers. And they all > didn't have $5 in their pocket either. > > Just evaluate all evidence and don't accept every story you hear as the > truth. Work to prove or disprove the story. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, > Achada > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when > they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." > > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
I have heard my ggmother Jennie Silva and her sisters stowed away because their older brother was on the crew and made arrangements...she arrived in 1866 in Boston and immediately went to Rhode Island. So yet another twist! Adair Borba On Jun 12, 2012, at 3:40 PM, Leonard Silva wrote: I have always been suspicious of the "stowaway story" because my grandfather was naturalized 12 years after his arrival. It seems that naturalization might require proof that one came legitimately. On the other hand, I have enjoyed telling people that I am the grandson of an illegal immigrant. I am running into a problem because it appears that 1882 Boston records were lost. Len On Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:03:37 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: However, what I am saying is that it seems like an extremely high number of researchers with the stowaway story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying it's not a crazy number like 50%. If anyone has the books I mentioned before, it will shed light on the statistics. Kind of like American researchers who all have the "3 brothers came to America" story. Doesn't matter where (Germany, England, Ireland), it was 3 brothers. And a lot of them don't pan out to be 3 brothers. And they all didn't have $5 in their pocket either. Just evaluate all evidence and don't accept every story you hear as the truth. Work to prove or disprove the story. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
My grandfather said he came in 1901. I have the entire ship's manifest and he is not on it. He became a naturalized citizen in 1934 stating he was on the ship. There is no proof of arrival in his paperwork. Naturalization only requires proof of arrival after a certain date, I think 1906, so if he came before 1906, he did not have to provide proof. My other grandfather who came in 1915 has a certificate of arrival signed by the officer of the ship he arrived on. Judi Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:40:33 -0700 From: lensi...@lenstudio.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships I have always been suspicious of the "stowaway story" because my grandfather was naturalized 12 years after his arrival. It seems that naturalization might require proof that one came legitimately. On the other hand, I have enjoyed telling people that I am the grandson of an illegal immigrant. I am running into a problem because it appears that 1882 Boston records were lost. Len On Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:03:37 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: However, what I am saying is that it seems like an extremely high number of researchers with the stowaway story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying it's not a crazy number like 50%. If anyone has the books I mentioned before, it will shed light on the statistics. Kind of like American researchers who all have the "3 brothers came to America" story. Doesn't matter where (Germany, England, Ireland), it was 3 brothers. And a lot of them don't pan out to be 3 brothers. And they all didn't have $5 in their pocket either. Just evaluate all evidence and don't accept every story you hear as the truth. Work to prove or disprove the story. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
It may have been in Tepper's book. I'll have to find it and post it. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Cheri, I'm not finding any real discussion (or stats) in Colletta's book. If it's there it's not in the section "Births and deaths at sea, stowaways, and other information. " Gayle On Jun 12, 2012, at 10:04 AM, Cheri Mello wrote: > StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! Our > ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid the > military. And yet it seems those of us with male ancestors have a stowaway > story. > > Either Michael Tepper in his "American Passenger Arrival Records" or John P. > Colletta in his " They Came in Ships" address the stowaway and jumping ship > story. I don't have access to my copies of those books at the moment, but if > someone else does, can they summarize what was said and post it please? > > My dad has become pretty good with me and my questions. When I first started > doing genealogy 20 years ago, I signed up at my local adult school for a > genealogy class. The instructor had 3 basic questions for evaluating family > stories: > 1) Who said it? > 2) When did they say it? > 3) How did they know? > > So when I ask my dad something, he knows what is coming next. So after > telling me his story, he says that the story came from his grandpa who was > telling it to the grandkids (and I'll get my dad to tell me if he was about 8 > or 10 or whatever) and that grandpa sometimes embellished the stories for the > audience. My dad doesn't always have the answer to all 3 questions, but > that's what makes us good genealogy sleuths! > > Cheri Mello > Who also had the stowaway story which was disproven > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when > they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right > that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
I have always been suspicious of the "stowaway story" because my grandfather was naturalized 12 years after his arrival. It seems that naturalization might require proof that one came legitimately. On the other hand, I have enjoyed telling people that I am the grandson of an illegal immigrant. I am running into a problem because it appears that 1882 Boston records were lost. Len On Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:03:37 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote: > > However, what I am saying is that it seems like an extremely high number > of researchers with the stowaway story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. > I'm saying it's not a crazy number like 50%. > > If anyone has the books I mentioned before, it will shed light on the > statistics. > > Kind of like American researchers who all have the "3 brothers came to > America" story. Doesn't matter where (Germany, England, Ireland), it was 3 > brothers. And a lot of them don't pan out to be 3 brothers. And they all > didn't have $5 in their pocket either. > > Just evaluate all evidence and don't accept every story you hear as the > truth. Work to prove or disprove the story. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das > Tainhas, Achada > -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Cheri is on target. In a message dated 6/12/2012 3:04:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gfsche...@gmail.com writes: However, what I am saying is that it seems like an extremely high number of researchers with the stowaway story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying it's not a crazy number like 50%. If anyone has the books I mentioned before, it will shed light on the statistics. Kind of like American researchers who all have the "3 brothers came to America" story. Doesn't matter where (Germany, England, Ireland), it was 3 brothers. And a lot of them don't pan out to be 3 brothers. And they all didn't have $5 in their pocket either. Just evaluate all evidence and don't accept every story you hear as the truth. Work to prove or disprove the story. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at _http://groups.google.com/group/Azores_ (http://groups.google.com/group/Azores) . Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Concur with JohnV on this. I found that one particular mariner had been coming to Providence, RI since 1860 and carried friends/acquaintances/"customers" from Azores to Providence. He used an alias even in court records. He was a native of Sao Jorge but sailed from Flores and Faial most often. Al In a message dated 6/12/2012 2:38:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gfsjo...@gmail.com writes: Cheri, I beg to differ a bit with you on that story. Many "stowaways" were not actually stowaways. That was just the "cover story" in case they were caught. Most were probably on board with full knowlede of the ships captain. Captain Antonio Corvello (my mother's second cousin) who was a whaling Captain out of New Bedford in the late 19th and early 20th Century, was known to "traffic" in "illegals" between Flores and New Bedford. Young men from some of the other nearby islands were known to find their way to Flores via local inter-island boats to hitch a ride to the US on whaling ships which would come to the largely uninhabited west side of Flores to fill out their crews. Many went to escape the military while others went just to seek a better life. John Vasconcelos. On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Cheri Mello <_gfscherim@gmail.com_ (mailto:gfsche...@gmail.com) > wrote: StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid the military. And yet it seems those of us with male ancestors have a stowaway story. Either Michael Tepper in his "American Passenger Arrival Records" or John P. Colletta in his " They Came in Ships" address the stowaway and jumping ship story. I don't have access to my copies of those books at the moment, but if someone else does, can they summarize what was said and post it please? My dad has become pretty good with me and my questions. When I first started doing genealogy 20 years ago, I signed up at my local adult school for a genealogy class. The instructor had 3 basic questions for evaluating family stories: 1) Who said it? 2) When did they say it? 3) How did they know? So when I ask my dad something, he knows what is coming next. So after telling me his story, he says that the story came from his grandpa who was telling it to the grandkids (and I'll get my dad to tell me if he was about 8 or 10 or whatever) and that grandpa sometimes embellished the stories for the audience. My dad doesn't always have the answer to all 3 questions, but that's what makes us good genealogy sleuths! Cheri Mello Who also had the stowaway story which was disproven -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to _Azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com_ (mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com) . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at _http://groups.google.com/group/Azores_ (http://groups.google.com/group/Azores) . Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at _http://groups.google.com/group/Azores_ (http://groups.google.com/group/Azores) . Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Fair enough Cheri. The calculated number of immigrants that reached the shores of the United States through illegal means has actually been calculated to be between 13-15% . Maria Ioannis Baganha, one of the foremost respected historians on Portuguese migration, wrote a paper where she calculated the actual numbers based upon all known information. If you read Portuguese, it's a truly fascinating discussion. You can find the paper online by googling it's title (it's the first result): Uma imagem desfocada: a emigração portuguesa e as fontes sobre a emigração Sonia - Original Message - From: "Cheri Mello" To: azores@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:03:37 PM Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships However, what I am saying is that it seems like an extremely high number of researchers with the stowaway story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying it's not a crazy number like 50%. If anyone has the books I mentioned before, it will shed light on the statistics. Kind of like American researchers who all have the "3 brothers came to America" story. Doesn't matter where (Germany, England, Ireland), it was 3 brothers. And a lot of them don't pan out to be 3 brothers. And they all didn't have $5 in their pocket either. Just evaluate all evidence and don't accept every story you hear as the truth. Work to prove or disprove the story. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores . Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
However, what I am saying is that it seems like an extremely high number of researchers with the stowaway story. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying it's not a crazy number like 50%. If anyone has the books I mentioned before, it will shed light on the statistics. Kind of like American researchers who all have the "3 brothers came to America" story. Doesn't matter where (Germany, England, Ireland), it was 3 brothers. And a lot of them don't pan out to be 3 brothers. And they all didn't have $5 in their pocket either. Just evaluate all evidence and don't accept every story you hear as the truth. Work to prove or disprove the story. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
I have to agree with John. I have evidence from the Comissariado da Polícia Especial de Emigração Clandestina (Special Police Commission for Illegal Immigration) that there was an "established" methodology for the ship captains and "stowaways". It all starts with the knowledge that all Portuguese citizens, immigrants or otherwise, were to declare themselves at the local Portuguese consulate once they reached their final destination and that the ship captains were financially responsible for any "employee" they had on board. The ship captain hired the individual for all effective purposes; upon reaching the final destination, the individual "ran away" from the ship; the captain then presented himself at the nearest Portuguese consulate and made the declaration that so-and-so had run away, and he was no longer responsible for said individual as they had abandoned the ship; thus, the individual was now on their own and the captain was no longer legally responsible for them. Sonia - Original Message - From: "John Vasconcelos" To: azores@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 2:38:09 PM Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships Cheri, I beg to differ a bit with you on that story. Many "stowaways" were not actually stowaways. That was just the "cover story" in case they were caught. Most were probably on board with full knowlede of the ships captain. Captain Antonio Corvello (my mother's second cousin) who was a whaling Captain out of New Bedford in the late 19th and early 20th Century, was known to "traffic" in "illegals" between Flores and New Bedford. Young men from some of the other nearby islands were known to find their way to Flores via local inter-island boats to hitch a ride to the US on whaling ships which would come to the largely uninhabited west side of Flores to fill out their crews. Many went to escape the military while others went just to seek a better life. John Vasconcelos. On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Cheri Mello < gfsche...@gmail.com > wrote: StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid the military. And yet it seems those of us with male ancestors have a stowaway story. Either Michael Tepper in his "American Passenger Arrival Records" or John P. Colletta in his " They Came in Ships" address the stowaway and jumping ship story. I don't have access to my copies of those books at the moment, but if someone else does, can they summarize what was said and post it please? My dad has become pretty good with me and my questions. When I first started doing genealogy 20 years ago, I signed up at my local adult school for a genealogy class. The instructor had 3 basic questions for evaluating family stories: 1) Who said it? 2) When did they say it? 3) How did they know? So when I ask my dad something, he knows what is coming next. So after telling me his story, he says that the story came from his grandpa who was telling it to the grandkids (and I'll get my dad to tell me if he was about 8 or 10 or whatever) and that grandpa sometimes embellished the stories for the audience. My dad doesn't always have the answer to all 3 questions, but that's what makes us good genealogy sleuths! Cheri Mello Who also had the stowaway story which was disproven -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores . Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores . Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Try spelling it as Silva or Sylva. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
Maybe someone can answer this for me, my gg grandfather said at the time he went whaling from Faial the captain of the Charles W.Morgan was a captain Sylvia. This would have been around 1884. But I can't find anywhere something that lists a Sylvia as captaining of the Morgan. On Jun 12, 2012 2:38 PM, "John Vasconcelos" wrote: > *Cheri, > I beg to differ a bit with you on that story. Many "stowaways" were not > actually stowaways. That was just the "cover story" in case they were > caught. Most were probably on board with full knowlede of the ships > captain. Captain Antonio Corvello (my mother's second cousin) who was a > whaling Captain out of New Bedford in the late 19th and early 20th Century, > was known to "traffic" in "illegals" between Flores and New Bedford. > Young men from some of the other nearby islands were known to find their > way to Flores via local inter-island boats to hitch a ride to the US on > whaling ships which would come to the largely uninhabited west side of > Flores to fill out their crews. Many went to escape the military while > others went just to seek a better life. > John Vasconcelos.* > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Cheri Mello wrote: > >> StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! >> Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid >> the military. And yet it seems those of us with male ancestors have a >> stowaway story. >> >> Either Michael Tepper in his "American Passenger Arrival Records" or John >> P. Colletta in his " They Came in Ships" address the stowaway and jumping >> ship story. I don't have access to my copies of those books at the moment, >> but if someone else does, can they summarize what was said and post it >> please? >> >> My dad has become pretty good with me and my questions. When I first >> started doing genealogy 20 years ago, I signed up at my local adult school >> for a genealogy class. The instructor had 3 basic questions for evaluating >> family stories: >> 1) Who said it? >> 2) When did they say it? >> 3) How did they know? >> >> So when I ask my dad something, he knows what is coming next. So after >> telling me his story, he says that the story came from his grandpa who was >> telling it to the grandkids (and I'll get my dad to tell me if he was about >> 8 or 10 or whatever) and that grandpa sometimes embellished the stories for >> the audience. My dad doesn't always have the answer to all 3 questions, >> but that's what makes us good genealogy sleuths! >> >> Cheri Mello >> Who also had the stowaway story which was disproven >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions >> when they arrive. >> For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail >> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the >> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my >> membership." >> > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
*Cheri, I beg to differ a bit with you on that story. Many "stowaways" were not actually stowaways. That was just the "cover story" in case they were caught. Most were probably on board with full knowlede of the ships captain. Captain Antonio Corvello (my mother's second cousin) who was a whaling Captain out of New Bedford in the late 19th and early 20th Century, was known to "traffic" in "illegals" between Flores and New Bedford. Young men from some of the other nearby islands were known to find their way to Flores via local inter-island boats to hitch a ride to the US on whaling ships which would come to the largely uninhabited west side of Flores to fill out their crews. Many went to escape the military while others went just to seek a better life. John Vasconcelos.* On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 10:04 AM, Cheri Mello wrote: > StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! > Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid > the military. And yet it seems those of us with male ancestors have a > stowaway story. > > Either Michael Tepper in his "American Passenger Arrival Records" or John > P. Colletta in his " They Came in Ships" address the stowaway and jumping > ship story. I don't have access to my copies of those books at the moment, > but if someone else does, can they summarize what was said and post it > please? > > My dad has become pretty good with me and my questions. When I first > started doing genealogy 20 years ago, I signed up at my local adult school > for a genealogy class. The instructor had 3 basic questions for evaluating > family stories: > 1) Who said it? > 2) When did they say it? > 3) How did they know? > > So when I ask my dad something, he knows what is coming next. So after > telling me his story, he says that the story came from his grandpa who was > telling it to the grandkids (and I'll get my dad to tell me if he was about > 8 or 10 or whatever) and that grandpa sometimes embellished the stories for > the audience. My dad doesn't always have the answer to all 3 questions, > but that's what makes us good genealogy sleuths! > > Cheri Mello > Who also had the stowaway story which was disproven > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
My gg grandfather ran away from home at 16 but it wasn't to avoid the military, he hated being a farmer and to go to sea. So when the CW Morgan was in the Gotta port away he went. But several months later when the Morgan came back to Faial he went home. But he did finally come to the US for good, so no sto away but it makes for a great story. On Jun 12, 2012 1:05 PM, "Cheri Mello" wrote: > StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! > Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid > the military. And yet it seems those of us with male ancestors have a > stowaway story. > > Either Michael Tepper in his "American Passenger Arrival Records" or John > P. Colletta in his " They Came in Ships" address the stowaway and jumping > ship story. I don't have access to my copies of those books at the moment, > but if someone else does, can they summarize what was said and post it > please? > > My dad has become pretty good with me and my questions. When I first > started doing genealogy 20 years ago, I signed up at my local adult school > for a genealogy class. The instructor had 3 basic questions for evaluating > family stories: > 1) Who said it? > 2) When did they say it? > 3) How did they know? > > So when I ask my dad something, he knows what is coming next. So after > telling me his story, he says that the story came from his grandpa who was > telling it to the grandkids (and I'll get my dad to tell me if he was about > 8 or 10 or whatever) and that grandpa sometimes embellished the stories for > the audience. My dad doesn't always have the answer to all 3 questions, > but that's what makes us good genealogy sleuths! > > Cheri Mello > Who also had the stowaway story which was disproven > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions > when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
StowawaysIf I had $5 for every time I heard that story, I'd be rich! Our ancestors did not send all their boys to America or elsewhere to avoid the military. And yet it seems those of us with male ancestors have a stowaway story. Either Michael Tepper in his "American Passenger Arrival Records" or John P. Colletta in his " They Came in Ships" address the stowaway and jumping ship story. I don't have access to my copies of those books at the moment, but if someone else does, can they summarize what was said and post it please? My dad has become pretty good with me and my questions. When I first started doing genealogy 20 years ago, I signed up at my local adult school for a genealogy class. The instructor had 3 basic questions for evaluating family stories: 1) Who said it? 2) When did they say it? 3) How did they know? So when I ask my dad something, he knows what is coming next. So after telling me his story, he says that the story came from his grandpa who was telling it to the grandkids (and I'll get my dad to tell me if he was about 8 or 10 or whatever) and that grandpa sometimes embellished the stories for the audience. My dad doesn't always have the answer to all 3 questions, but that's what makes us good genealogy sleuths! Cheri Mello Who also had the stowaway story which was disproven -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Immigrant Ships
On Jun 11, 2:35 pm, Leonard Silva wrote: > Family stories say that he came as a 15 year old stowaway with an older > cousin who abandoned him in Boston. My great-great-grandfather Caetano Freitas was also supposedly a "stowaway." I wonder if this may be a euphemism for "draft dodger"? Due to the mandatory military service for boys 14 and older, many families clandestinely sent their sons off with American whaling ships, which would stop in the Azores looking for crew. The ships would anchor in the harbor, and families would row out to them with their boys at night. This could also be where he learned English, depending on how long it took him to actually get to the US. Steve -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
